What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Jotari]

33 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Now if only it was like Jagged Alliance and you could have Blacksmiths repair weapons between battles...

Top-tier Waifu.

There is no durability in Shadows of Valentia, so she's so good she makes unbreakable weapons.

[Samz707]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There is no durability in Shadows of Valentia, so she's so good she makes unbreakable weapons.

Good point.

Best Waifu.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Samz707

[Etrurian emperor]

Might be unpopular due to Gilbert being rather disliked but has anyone noticed how Gilbert is essentially a second version of Tauroneo?

-Both Gilbert and Tauroneo are old retainers from a frozen, racist hellhole. 
-They are both good friends of the main character's father. 
-Both Gilbert and Tauroneo are horrible parents who destroyed their families and regret it. The difference being that Gilbert fled from his family while Tauroneo's family fled from him.
-both are promoted armor knights
-They both take up important leadership roles in the story. 

[nedya]

-ChromXTharja AlmXsilque are the Best ship do i need to say more?

[ping]

Alm is a good protagonist / pov character for a videogame. He's not the most complex character there is, but he's a pleasant "kid with the camera" to interact with the world through. Kinda like an improved, more emoting version of Roy (which comes from Mr "Roy-actually-works-well-within-FE6's-context" Ping).

Celica is a good protagonist; arguably a more interesting character than Alm. She goes into the story with a flawed view on the world - that there is no way out of the crisis without the help of Mila - which is then exploited by the villain. It would help her case if Jedah (and the entire cult of Duma) wasn't so painfully obviously treacherous and evil, puppy-kicking and baby-eating and everything.

Alm and Celica do not work very well as co-protagonists. Whatever the intention - since Celica is set up as a flawed protagonist and Alm isn't, they come across as Reasonable Guy and Stupid Girl. Kinda similar to Eirika and Ephraim, who in my opinion don't work as well in tandem as they would individually. (I also find all the One Twue Wuv between them a bit heavy-handed, but that's a whole other story) (Twue Wuv between Alm and Celica, that is, of course)

--

No idea how "unpopular" that is, but that's how I feel about SoV's story at large. Good story, very well written and presented, but not every swing is a hit.

[joevar]

17 minutes ago, ping said:

Alm is a good protagonist / pov character for a videogame. He's not the most complex character there is, but he's a pleasant "kid with the camera" to interact with the world through. Kinda like an improved, more emoting version of Roy (which comes from Mr "Roy-actually-works-well-within-FE6's-context" Ping).

i never expect Alm to be multi dimensional "lord" character. He's from older gen FE afterall. as long as he has clear motivation and enough power, its enough. since i know whatever they do they must limit it to whatever gaiden overall story was. As for Roy, funnily enough he's more memorable to me than other GBA fire emblem protag despite i played 3 of them back-to-back in elementary school. maybe because he's more blank/flat (FE6 dont even have portrait variations sadly) that my mind have easier time filling the blank with my childish imagination. or maybe because it has official manga
 

6 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Now if only it was like Jagged Alliance and you could have Blacksmiths repair weapons between battles...

i rarely get any trouble in terms of inventory (weapon breaking, need new weapon, etc) since 3DS fire emblem. Even more so now since we can even access blacksmith in deployment menu.
 

Spoiler

if said blacksmith are recruited, then can we expect theres more side job for recruiting? chef, farmer, instructor, musician, architect that builds castle... wait, isnt that too close to suikoden. lol

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by joevar

[Ottservia]

26 minutes ago, ping said:

Alm is a good protagonist / pov character for a videogame. He's not the most complex character there is, but he's a pleasant "kid with the camera" to interact with the world through. Kinda like an improved, more emoting version of Roy (which comes from Mr "Roy-actually-works-well-within-FE6's-context" Ping).

 

In a vacuum I would actually agree with this but in the context of SoV’s narrative not really. He’s a poor protagonist for the story that he’s a part of as you outlined later in your post. The story wants you to believe he’s a flawed character but he never actually is presented as such. Like I said he’s written like a bad light novel protagonist.

[Anathaco]

18 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

In a vacuum I would actually agree with this but in the context of SoV’s narrative not really. He’s a poor protagonist for the story that he’s a part of as you outlined later in your post. The story wants you to believe he’s a flawed character but he never actually is presented as such. Like I said he’s written like a bad light novel protagonist.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive though. You can be a poorly written/integrated protagonist and still be a goofy, charming and all around entertaining character for the audience. 
Stuff like his speech at the end of Act 5, his banter with Tobin and Gray, his supports, and his little comments on stuff in the world (Looking good Alm! Hehe.) kinda just make you feel good to watch, whether you’re laughing at it or being moved by it. IMO at least, obviously not everyone feels the same way.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Anathaco

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Anathaco said:

Those aren’t mutually exclusive though. You can be a poorly written/integrated protagonist and still be a goofy, charming and all around entertaining character for the audience. 

Which is why I said I would agree if we were discussing his character in a vaccuum. He’s a fine character and protagonist on his own just within the context pf the story he’s a part of he doesn’t work.

[joevar]

the fire emblem series need to stop presenting the big bad evil with such obvious... design and behaviour.
I like how older FE games actually give you villain (not the actual final dragon boss) thats actually looks cool rather than evil. Rather than villain giving creepy smile like jedah, looks like zombie (Those who-something group), i would love to see someone like Zephiel, black knight, or maybe like Lyon. So we can questionably root for them 

[vanguard333]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Might be unpopular due to Gilbert being rather disliked but has anyone noticed how Gilbert is essentially a second version of Tauroneo?

-Both Gilbert and Tauroneo are old retainers from a frozen, racist hellhole. 
-They are both good friends of the main character's father. 
-Both Gilbert and Tauroneo are horrible parents who destroyed their families and regret it. The difference being that Gilbert fled from his family while Tauroneo's family fled from him.
-both are promoted armor knights
-They both take up important leadership roles in the story. 

I agree that they have a lot of parallels; another example of FE borrowing from Path of Radiance on the surface-level for something in Three Houses. That said, while I haven't played Blue Lions yet so my opinion may change, I do think Tauroneo is the more compelling character, and one reason for that is that Tauroneo's mistake was the very thing that tore him from his family, while Gilbert trying to atone for a prior mistake led to him making another one in deserting his family and it's hard to tell which he's more concerned about: his family or his atonement. 

 

29 minutes ago, joevar said:

i never expect Alm to be multi dimensional "lord" character. He's from older gen FE afterall. as long as he has clear motivation and enough power, its enough. since i know whatever they do they must limit it to whatever gaiden overall story was.

The problem with that is that is that Echoes was almost schizophrenic in whether it wanted to rigidly adhere to Gaiden's story like Shadow Dragon, or update and expand upon the narrative. 

[joevar]

1 minute ago, vanguard333 said:

The problem with that is that is that Echoes was almost schizophrenic in whether it wanted to rigidly adhere to Gaiden's story like Shadow Dragon, or update and expand upon the narrative.

yes, we'll see if they take their lesson this time. since they clearly said it was gaiden experience all over again with modernization when marketing echoes. (and it backfires according to many people)

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

the fire emblem series need to stop presenting the big bad evil with such obvious... design and behaviour.
I like how older FE games actually give you villain (not the actual final dragon boss) thats actually looks cool rather than evil. Rather than villain giving creepy smile like jedah, looks like zombie (Those who-something group), i would love to see someone like Zephiel, black knight, or maybe like Lyon. So we can questionably root for them 

Yeah, the fact that they don't even look realistic only dehumanizes them in the player's eyes. 

Frankly, I want Fire Emblem to have more Edelgard's, especially having her as a protagonist more often, not needing to share a spotlight. 

[joevar]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Frankly, I want Fire Emblem to have more Edelgard's, especially having her as a protagonist more often, not needing to share a spotlight.

100% this. a Lord character that a bit extreme which could be villain if taking the wrong turn, or when no one becomes their moral compass to keep them in check. couple that with cool antagonist like in my previous post... imagine that
i can easily imagine that become a hot mess of a story

[Anathaco]

9 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Which is why I said I would agree if we were discussing his character in a vaccuum. He’s a fine character and protagonist on his own just within the context pf the story he’s a part of he doesn’t work.

Ah. It sounded to me like you were saying that his role in the story ruins any and all appeal as a protagonist. My bad.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, joevar said:

100% this. a Lord character that a bit extreme which could be villain if taking the wrong turn, or when no one becomes their moral compass to keep them in check. couple that with cool antagonist like in my previous post... imagine that
i can easily imagine that become a hot mess of a story

Honestly, I feel people in the Fire Emblem community are a little touchy with the whole, "war is bad" and act like if you start a war, you are the bad guy. Of course, it's OKAY to start a war if the other guy is just 100% Disney evil villain, like in Radiant Dawn. No one cares the fact that the Laguz Alliance declared war, which would actually pose a serious danger to the world in the form of Lehran's Medallion, because we're fighting a righteous war against a bunch of evil, powerhungry, racist pricks. 

But then we have 3H where Edelgard declares war against the Church, and gets the other nations involved, and because the other side aren't 100% evil, they are all going about how she's wrong, evil, and just go out of their way to dehumanize her and remove any shred of moral grey from her to insist that she's morally black.

Like, geez. It's incredibly petty and shallow.

So yeah, future FE needs to have a single protag that is like Edelgard, but are fighting a not totally evil side, but is fighting for an overall good cause. 

[joevar]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

But then we have 3H where Edelgard declares war against the Church, and gets the other nations involved, and because the other side aren't 100% evil, they are all going about how she's wrong, evil, and just go out of their way to dehumanize her and remove any shred of moral grey from her to insist that she's morally black.

like i said, a hot mess. if you make it singular people will ranting about her behaviour. if you make it optional, people start ranting about how unnatural their classmate switch sides

it works better in full on JRPG story.

why, because afaik no FE ever have monolithic army. its always consist of various background, if you have leader that questioning his/her own ideals versus antagonist, the army would fall apart. since your ideals doesnt align anymore or you're just incompetent. (i've read exact situation like that in another story but forgot where, classic literature/history maybe)
 

Edited October 6, 2020 by joevar

[Ottservia]

20 minutes ago, joevar said:

the fire emblem series need to stop presenting the big bad evil with such obvious... design and behaviour.
I like how older FE games actually give you villain (not the actual final dragon boss) thats actually looks cool rather than evil. Rather than villain giving creepy smile like jedah, looks like zombie (Those who-something group), i would love to see someone like Zephiel, black knight, or maybe like Lyon. So we can questionably root for them 

Ehh I mean this is when you get into “what makes good character design?” Territory. I don’t necessarily disagree but the fact that you feel the way you do about Jedah due to his design is kinda the point.

[joevar]

4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Ehh I mean this is when you get into “what makes good character design?” Territory. I don’t necessarily disagree but the fact that you feel the way you do about Jedah due to his design is kinda the point.

oh, it is good design, i love all Hidari char design. but when Celica route have Jedah, and Alm route have  Rudolf, im certain a lot of people thought "is rudolf actually bad?" way before facing him

Edited October 6, 2020 by joevar

[Lightcosmo]

16 minutes ago, joevar said:

100% this. a Lord character that a bit extreme which could be villain if taking the wrong turn, or when no one becomes their moral compass to keep them in check. couple that with cool antagonist like in my previous post... imagine that
i can easily imagine that become a hot mess of a story

I think the TO: LUCT approach would work well for this.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, joevar said:

like i said, a hot mess. if you make it singular people will ranting about her behaviour. if you make it optional, people start ranting about how unnatural their classmate switch sides

it works better in full on JRPG story.

why, because afaik no FE ever have monolithic army. its always consist of various background, if you have leader that questioning his/her own ideals versus antagonist, the army would fall apart. since your ideals doesnt align anymore or you're just incompetent.

Which is why I find it silly how people are silly. They've BEEN demanding "more moral grey" over and over, especially after Fates, but now that 3H threw in Edelgard, people are now exposing that they don't actually WANT moral grey.

They just want more sympathetic villains who are still objectively wrong. 

• The people of Loptous were persecuted and burned at the stake? Well, they are morally corrupt and worship a dark god that likes to make child sacrifices. 
• Sephiran suffered from the genocide of his race? Well, he's trying to commit total extinction, so he's wrong. 
• Zephiel has daddy issues? Too bad, he started a war and is basically trying to commit genocide on the human race by replacing it with dragons. 

It's basically that one thing, "Cute story, still murder."

And they apply it to Edelgard now. Trying to push that she's morally black and objectively wrong, when the thing is, her war attacks a seriously deep problem that simply CAN'T be solved through peaceful means. 

Fire Emblem really should consider making longer scenes and dialogue, basically getting points across better. 

 

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, joevar said:

oh, it is good design, i love all Hidari char design. but when Celica route have Jedah, and Alm route have  Rudolf, im certain a lot of people thought "is rudolf actually bad?" way before facing him

Yeah because Rudolf wasn’t actually “bad” so his design sort of reflects that. Excuse me for being blunt but I find looking at morally ambiguous storytelling this way to be a little surface level

[Etrurian emperor]

30 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I agree that they have a lot of parallels; another example of FE borrowing from Path of Radiance on the surface-level for something in Three Houses. That said, while I haven't played Blue Lions yet so my opinion may change, I do think Tauroneo is the more compelling character, and one reason for that is that Tauroneo's mistake was the very thing that tore him from his family, while Gilbert trying to atone for a prior mistake led to him making another one in deserting his family and it's hard to tell which he's more concerned about: his family or his atonement. 

I think its also to Tauroneo's advantage that we don't see his family. Most players rightfully get attached to Annette and so instantly find themselves on her side, but we never see the son Tauroneo crippled which makes his mistakes something the player might have a harder time getting offended about. 

[Ottservia]

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think its also to Tauroneo's advantage that we don't see his family. Most players rightfully get attached to Annette and so instantly find themselves on her side, but we never see the son Tauroneo crippled which makes his mistakes something the player might have a harder time getting offended about. 

I’d argue that being able to see Tauroneo’s crippled son would’ve actually made for far stronger storytelling. It adds more nuance to the situation and allows the player to get a far better grasp of the weight of his burdens. The fact that we are attached to Annette like that works in the story’s favor because we actually see the after effects of Gilberts mistakes and the flaws in his character. Show don’t tell is a powerful narrative tool that should not be underestimated.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Ottservia

[joevar]

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Yeah because Rudolf wasn’t actually “bad” so his design sort of reflects that. Excuse me for being blunt but I find looking at morally ambiguous storytelling this way to be a little surface level

didnt understand by what you mean surface level. 
im just saying that when the antagonist gives away hints to player but the actual protag didnt get it, sometimes you know... There are people thats too observative for their own good, and start calling the story bad just because they didnt enjoy it/not their cup of tea

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's basically that one thing, "Cute story, still murder."

in simpler terms, i want a situation where you judge something after you get the full picture. not just after a couple battle you just "oh this guy is pure evil" and youre actually right and thats all there is to it

Edited October 6, 2020 by joevar