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Icelerate

Greil (FE9) or Jeralt (FE16)

Who was the better character?   

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Which father did you like more?

    • Greil
      33
    • Jeralt
      38


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Which character did you enjoy more? 

Spoiler

Personally I enjoy Greil more because while he died earlier, he was more present in the story when he was still alive than Jeralt. Furthermore, Ike is a better character than Byleth by virtue of not being a mute avatar so the relationship between father and son was handled better. Also, we barely see Jeralt interact with other characters while Greil interacts with the other mercenaries. 

 

Edited by Icelerate

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As much as I love Tellius, I have to disagree with you because Jeralt, despite not interacting with much more than his kid, had better quality interactions and more screentime. Greil didn't ever seem to laugh or smile and Jeralt did so that humanized him more imo.

Regardless I hope the Outrealms extend to the afterlife so these two can hang out and be cool FE dads. Victims of one of IS' favorite tropes.

Also Jeralt's new nickname is Nun Humper lol I'm horrible

Edited by Dragoncat

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47 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

As much as I love Tellius, I have to disagree with you because Jeralt, despite not interacting with much more than his kid, had better quality interactions and more screentime. Greil didn't ever seem to laugh or smile and Jeralt did so that humanized him more imo.

Regardless I hope the Outrealms extend to the afterlife so these two can hang out and be cool FE dads. Victims of one of IS' favorite tropes.

Also Jeralt's new nickname is Nun Humper lol I'm horrible

He does have voice acting so I guess the quality of his interactions might be better. I'll have to play the game instead of LP. I think both of them are good characters for someone who is meant to die relatively early. 

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Jeralt got a lot more time on screen, this a lot more development. I'm going to have to go with him mainly for that reason

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I rather like them both equally, evne though my big bias for Tellius and Ike would typically want me to pick Greil. I just wish IS would JUST ONCE move away from the dying lord parent trope already. Yes, technically they did with Eliwood in FE6, but that's been the one exception. I'm just so bored of this pattern. In fact, it's so boring now that it's become predictable. A ton of people thought Jeralt would die. And being predictable isn't good for a story. Though so far, this has been the only part of the story I didn't like.

Edited by Anacybele

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how could anyone prefer a living fossil with years and years of experience in combat who dies because he let a very suspicious girl stab him over greil

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Jeralt. 

You get a lot more interactions with the guy and I genuinely 

Spoiler

felt more for his death because of his 'To think the first time I'd see you cry would be for me' line. Guy just wanted his kid to be happy.

 

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I'm surprised the results aren't more in favor of Greil.

I never felt much for Jeralt. We hear big stuff about him, but none of it ever really seems to matter or get expounded upon. He has little purpose in the story beyond being someone to speak in place of the mute Byleth. And then he dies, we're sad for a month I guess, and we barely remember him. He dies to a stab in the back because why would this veteran mercenary be on guard after a battle against monsters? And even the one who killed him has no impact on the story whatsoever aside from said killing.

Greil's presence actually felt impactful, and we actually see how he operates as a mercenary rather than just being told he's some big shot like Jeralt. Even after he dies his memory lives on through the name of the group, "Greil's Mercenaries," and Ike's (and even somewhat Mist's) desire for revenge is a major driving point of his character arc.

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There is something in Greil that makes him a much stronger character, thus I'm voting for him.

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Greil, and it's not even remotely a contest. Greil had a much better voice, better characterization, had a relationship with a son and daughter with actual personalities, and met a far more dignified death at the hands of a much cooler enemy.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Thanks to OP for the spoiler in the title. 😕

Now I know like everything about Jeralt just for reading the title.

 

In general: I really wished people would be more cautious with their thread titles because there are still people like me who have NOT played the game yet.

Edited by Lysithea

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6 hours ago, Hekselka said:

Jeralt. 

You get a lot more interactions with the guy and I genuinely 

  Reveal hidden contents

felt more for his death because of his 'To think the first time I'd see you cry would be for me' line. Guy just wanted his kid to be happy.

 

THIS. Just, this.

Despite IS trolling us with his "I won't die on you" lines.

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8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I rather like them both equally, evne though my big bias for Tellius and Ike would typically want me to pick Greil. I just wish IS would JUST ONCE move away from the dying lord parent trope already. Yes, technically they did with Eliwood in FE6, but that's been the one exception. I'm just so bored of this pattern. In fact, it's so boring now that it's become predictable. A ton of people thought Jeralt would die. And being predictable isn't good for a story. Though so far, this has been the only part of the story I didn't like.

Actually I’d argue there’s nothing wrong with predictability in a story. Otherwise what would be the point in rewatching/rereading/replaying anything. Execution is what matters most at the end of the day and I think it was executed well here. I can certainly understand getting tired of seeing this trope and wanting something a little more refreshing but personally I’m not one to complain about cliches and such so long as it fits the narrative and gets across the message the story wants to tell. In this case here it does that well.

Edited by Ottservia

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Just now, Ottservia said:

Actually I’d argue there’s nothing wrong with predictability in a story. Otherwise what would be the point in rewatching/rereading/replaying anything.  Execution is what matters most at the end of the day and I think it was executed well here. I can certainly understand getting tired of seeing this trope and wanting something a little more refreshing but personally I’m not one to complain about cliches and such so long as it fits the narrative and gets across the message the story wants to tell. In this case here it does that well.

I have to disagree on both here. Predictability is wrong because what fun is it to not be surprised at all because you knew it was going to happen? It's not fun. I'd rather be surprised and go "wow, didn't expect that!" Which I have been most of the game. Just not this moment.

And I don't think it was well executed either. Greil at least died in an epic clash and went down fighting, and then we had Ike crying "don't leave me! Fatherrrr!" to add to the emotion. Jeralt? He simply got stabbed all of a sudden and because Byleth has to be silent in cutscenes for some reason, could not say anything to him, only cry. I won't say this is the worst character death I've seen in the series (definitely not since Fates and Awakening exist), but it still could've been better compared to Greil's death.

I'd say Jeralt has just about everything else over Greil though. We got to know him well, he got more screen time, and he lasted a couple chapters more.

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'd say Jeralt has just about everything else over Greil though. We got to know him well, he got more screen time, and he lasted a couple chapters more.

The last sentence encapsulates why most people picked Jeralt over Greil, tbh. 

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11 minutes ago, Karimlan said:

why most people picked Jeralt over Greil, tbh. 

If most people are picking Jeralt over Greil, why is Greil is currently beating Jeralt in the poll, by twelve votes to nine? :rolleyes:

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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8 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

If most people are picking Jeralt over Greil, why is Greil is currently beating Jeralt in the poll, by twelve votes to nine? :rolleyes:

Okay, I meant most people who picked Jeralt. Thanks for the nitpick.

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13 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I have to disagree on both here. Predictability is wrong because what fun is it to not be surprised at all because you knew it was going to happen? It's not fun. I'd rather be surprised and go "wow, didn't expect that!" Which I have been most of the game. Just not this moment.

And I don't think it was well executed either. Greil at least died in an epic clash and went down fighting, and then we had Ike crying "don't leave me! Fatherrrr!" to add to the emotion. Jeralt? He simply got stabbed all of a sudden and because Byleth has to be silent in cutscenes for some reason, could not say anything to him, only cry. I won't say this is the worst character death I've seen in the series (definitely not since Fates and Awakening exist), but it still could've been better compared to Greil's death.

 I'd say Jeralt has just about everything else over Greil though. We got to know him well, he got more screen time, and he lasted a couple chapters more.

What I mean by good execution is does the death have any impact on the narrative as a whole. Like what role does it serve in the story and does it serve that role well. Your argument is a mostly subjective one as what one finds emotional varies from person to person. Personally I got a little teary eyed at the scene more so when I watched it the second time on NG+. I mean just because I know it’s gonna happen doesn’t make it hurt any less but again that’s kind of a subjective point. Back to execution, by my definition the death is well executed. It’s supposed to act as the turning point for Byleth’s character where they are able to show genuine emotion for the first time and the impact his death has on both them and the rest of the church is immense. It works especially well in blue lions cause it allows Byleth and by extension the player to better empathize with Dimitri in his plight for revenge. So yeah I’d say it’s well executed.

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2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

What I mean by good execution is does the death have any impact on the narrative as a whole. Like what role does it serve in the story and does it serve that role well. Your argument is a mostly subjective one as what one finds emotional varies from person to person. Personally I got a little teary eyed at the scene more so when I watched it the second time on NG+. I mean just because I know it’s gonna happen doesn’t make it hurt any less but again that’s kind of a subjective point. Back to execution, by my definition the death is well executed. It’s supposed to act as the turning point for Byleth’s character where they are able to show genuine emotion for the first time and the impact his death has on both them and the rest of the church is immense. It works especially well in blue lions cause it allows Byleth and by extension the player to better empathize with Dimitri in his plight for revenge. So yeah I’d say it’s well executed.

Then your definition is not mine.

I didn't get teary eyed or anything at all. Because it was such an unsurprising, overdone thing in the series, all I could do is go "the parent gets killed yet again, woop dee doo, how TOTALLY unexpected! Yawn." I was literally bored.

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19 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Then your definition is not mine.

I didn't get teary eyed or anything at all. Because it was such an unsurprising, overdone thing in the series, all I could do is go "the parent gets killed yet again, woop dee doo, how TOTALLY unexpected! Yawn." I was literally bored.

Same. And the main thing is that nearly all of his characterization comes from talking to a player-piloted robot I don't care about at all. I was shocked when the game expected me to feel sad for my emotionless muppet of an avatar. Watching him hunched over and sad on the "what to do this Sunday" screen was absolutely hilarious, it was just so dumb. In contrast we saw Greil interact with a big band of interesting characters, and got to see firsthand why he was so awesome and what he meant to everyone in his life.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Greil's death was more impactful, but Jeralt was more enjoyable when he got screen time. If only TWSITD weren't such stereotypical cartoon evil would Jeralt have gone out in style. Pick someone better like Death Knight (dude is budget DK either way) or something.

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Greil is better from a lore perspective. While in most aspects the lore and backstory in 3H outdoes anything we've previously seen in Fire Emblem games, this is one area where it falls flat. We hear a lot about how legendary "Blade Breaker" Jeralt (and even his child "Ashen Demon" Byleth) are in the mercenary world, but we hear relatively little about his actual exploits. After Jeralt dies, he pretty much fades from the story altogether. Whereas long after Greil dies, his actions continue to be brought up. The information he conveys posthumously through Volke is a major plot point in PoR. He's an important part of the Black Knight's character arc for reasons we don't even truly figure out until the RD endgame. While Jeralt burns brightly and then dies out, we spend the remainder of two games following Greil's death figuring out just how important of a character he really was. 

That said, as far as personalities go, I like Jeralt more. He feels a lot more fatherly than Greil. While Greil seems unnecessarily strict and harsh at times and rarely opens up emotionally, Jeralt is a jovial, honest, and good-natured character who likes to laugh, drink, and brag about their kid. Jeralt feels like a dad doing his best to raise an emotionless child born under questionable circumstances. Greil is a lot more closed-off, and while he loves his kids, he rarely shows it. 

I feel like Greil's death was handled better though. Way cooler to die fighting than to die getting stabbed by a random kid. Though one thing I hear a lot is that "if a puny knife like that could kill Jeralt then he must have been pretty weak." Doesn't Manuela say afterwards that it wasn't an ordinary knife? And Monica isn't an ordinary kid either. Jeralt dying due to an unusual, unexpected stab wound isn't unexplainable, it's just significantly less cool than dying battling the Black Knight. 

I feel like both cases are good examples of how much better Fire Emblem handles important deaths than other games though. In a lot of JRPGs death scenes are often overdramatized and then the game rushes to leave them behind. Often times you don't feel like characters got a chance to really mourn. I've played games where an entire civilization gets destroyed and nobody really stops to give it a second thought. Greil and Jeralt are each mourned in their own way. In Greil's case we see characters like Ike and Titania let down their emotional guards for brief moments, which is a rare treat. With Jeralt you get to walk through the monastery and see how each character reacts to Byleth's loss. In PoR Greil's death is followed by one of the most tense battles in the game (IMO in the entire series) as the emotionally ragged mercenaries are forced to fight for their lives in a brutal survival map. In 3H your next mission after Jeralt's death allows you to vent your anger and (in a rare show of impulsiveness from Byleth) get revenge on the very villains who took your father from you. 

In conclusion, both deaths rank very highly among my favorite video game deaths. I feel like I like Jeralt as a character more, but Greil has greater story significance. That said, Greil got two games to flesh out his backstory. I'd totally be down to play a prequel to 3H with Jeralt as your main character.

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Jeralt was more developed for sure, but his death was definitely not nearly as impactful as Greils. Also considering that it was done by Kronya, who I still don't really get the point of, made it a little worse for me as well.

Both of them died leaving a little mystery which can be discovered later, but Greils death fit in to the events more smoothly as well.

The revenge on Kronya also was really fast and Byleth didn't even get to do it, wheras after multiple encounters with the Black Knight Ike, at the end of RD, has a new vision of the Black Knight and has moved on from his fathers death and now only sought retribution rather than revenge, yet at the same time respected the deeds the Black Knight has done while in his true identity.

Greils death was the source of a lot growth, and while Jeralt was leagues above the depth of many father figures in the series it just wasn't at the level of Greil.

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