Group Mafia -- Game Over

[Grace]

in fact i'm going to turn this on you: what was the point of mentioning that statement at all?

[BBM]

Because it was a thought I had and I didn't see a reason to hide it from everyone else. Why should I hide my thought process if sharing it doesn't give away info to the mafia or anything?

And yeah, you might have been the first person to actually push someone specific on the Eclipse wagon, but you didn't actually start doing so until right after she came in and said the wagon was bad. Before that, you weren't exactly supporting it, but you were by no means looking for scum on it either.

[charlie_]

And I don't see what he's talking about here with the votehop either.

I think I know what post he's referring to, but I don't really see it as a votehop that mattered since it was still just everyone fooling around.

Rapier's lynch probably isn't going to get far, so I'm looking over other major wagons now.

Fera's reason for voting me was because I kept my vote on BBM. Considering I haven't posted that much, it can't really be held against me.

##Unvote

##Vote: Rapier

You have lots of reads on people, you said so yourself. Why aren't you sharing them? So far, all you've said is SB is sheeping and that eclipse isn't doing anything. So unoriginal! You say eclipse's plan is risky, but you don't actually say why you feel that way.

BBM's improved a lot since he posted that terrible meme. I like his line of thought, waiting for people to explain themselves before committing to a vote. Nothing new on SB. He voted Rapier but Rapier never really does himself any favours. Nothing from Xinn/Scorri yet, I'll see how it goes.

I don't like the "I've been inactive" defense here. It's the same as what you used in trainwreck, and when you have been here your content hasn't been too stellar either.

You say Rapier's reads are unoriginal, yet you don't exactly bring a lot of new content to the table. You spent a while parked on BBM for him being suspicious of Shinori for not voting, then shifted to eclipse when she had a large wagon on her. You only voted for Rapier after I did, with pretty much similar reasons to me. There's also the bolded part. It sounds like you're implying "Rapier usually looks scummy, so he's an easy target", but you just voted him too. Or I could be looking too far into a joke, but I don't like it.

Gonna ponder a bit and look at some others before placing my vote though.

[scorri]

scorri - Your vote legitimately pisses me off. See, you're part of the inactive problem, because you sure as hell weren't around on Sunday. It's like you didn't read what I posted about activity, and decided that you somehow felt that I should get reads off of the other people who were absent, despite the fact that you don't have a lot of reads, either. Also, "accidentally" get someone lynched? The only accident will be if either of them lied about their role. As for me asking to stop the petty bickering? All I saw was an argument that was going nowhere, and all it would do is give someone like you an excuse not to do things. In other words, your original vote was extremely hypocritical, and the fact that you're now justifying your vote while conveniently ignoring the fact that most of the game wasn't present tells me that you're either being extremely lazy or seriously misrepping me. Given the amount of weak language ("It seems" is really noncommittal) in your initial vote, coupled with the fact that your vote on me is partially backed up by your own admission, I'm leaning towards misrep.

Alright, lets see:

scorri has been subbed in for Xinnidy.

Yeah, I'm aware that my slot was inactive, but as soon as I came in which was *Monday* I started contributing. As for accidentally, no, I meant what I said. How many times has someone posted something without reading the thread well and such? I've seen multiple people modkilled because they didn't check the thread before they posted, multiple people miss pages of content because they didn't check, etc. So yes. I meant accident. And I stick by that.

If you see an argument that's going no where, explain why it's going no where. You saying that it's petty bickering not only doesn't give anything useful, but it also doesn't help people who maybe don't see why it's petty bickering. So you're just coming in, "contributing", but not actually giving anything useful. Why was it a waste of time for them to be discussing that? What would their time have been better spent on?

Marth: If no one else was posting, why not try and get her idea to get more discussion? Why not explain why she thought it was a good idea more or try to discuss with people why they didn't think it was a good idea, etc. Instead she just dropped it completely and moved on to a prod vote on someone. If she considers it worthless, then why not explain why? I had very little idea as to why eclipse thought anything about that argument. I'm still not really sure what she thought there.

Manix: Bah, bad word choice. Eclipse didn't push her idea she kinda just tossed it out there and let others deal with it. It seems like a weird and risky thing to suggest would have been a better way of saying what I wanted to say. I wasn't changing my argument, I was pointing out two different things.

Look, my whole point on clipsey is not that she's been inactive. It's been that she's been passively active. As in, active lurking type posts. There's a difference there.

Also, I'm aware that I haven't been exactly the glowing example of scum reads, but I had only read the thread once at that point and hadn't had many fully developed reads. I'm hoping to have the chance to read the thread again later today and get more developed reads.

However, that post from eclipse is something more along the lines of what I would be looking for from her. I'm not going to completely drop this, but for now I'm going to

##Unvote

##Vote:Rapier

He votes Clipsey well after he originally started saying that he found her scummy because "he didn't know how many votes were on her" If you don't know how many votes someone has, go check. It's not that hard. In addition, his reasons for voting her were basically what everyone else had said. He also vaguely accused Manix of buddying without giving any real support for why and also without just coming straight out and saying it. Would like to see more from him.

Besides that, I'd be ok with a Shin lynch I guess, but want to read more before I commit to that.

[scorri]

Votals:

Shin (4): BBM,Fera, Balcerzak, Shinori

eclipse (2): Elieson, Rapier

Rapier (3): Serious Bananas, scorri, Shin

Xinnidy/scorri (3): eclipse, Marth, Manix

Updated votals.

[scorri]

scorri - Your vote legitimately pisses me off. See, you're part of the inactive problem, because you sure as hell weren't around on Sunday.

Ok, coming back to this because it's actually pissing me off the more I think about it. Either one of two things occurred. Either you didn't bother to check when I subbed in and are just accusing me of being hypocritical without checking your facts or you saw when I subbed in and chose to ignore it and accuse me of being hypocritical even with that knowledge. As soon as I subbed in, I started to post. 8 people currently have more posts than me in this thread. However, that includes confirmation posts, so actually it's more like 6 people who have more posts than me. Which is half the game, true, but it's only half the game. When I subbed in two days ago. So no. I'm not part of the inactive problem. And if you're talking about Xinnidy, then *say* Xinnidy. Or even say my player slot. Don't say me. Because there is literally no way that your statement is valid if you are talking about me, scorri, personally.

[scorri]

Besides eclipse, I'm getting vaguely neutral reads on most other people. Lets try and do some more stuff guys.

Right. Pretty sure there would be at least enough material to at least pull some townreads, at the very least. Scumreads besides Clipsey too.

Oh and Manix, this? This is completely different because unlike Clipsey, I'd at least managed to get some scum read out of this. I at least had in the exact same post voted someone for more reason than prod. So no. It's not the pot calling the kettle black. I would very much enjoy it if people stopped calling me hypocritical for no reason. Eclipse claimed she had no scum reads on anyone at that point and voted Bal as a prod vote. I had at least one scum read and did more with it than a prod vote.

[scorri]

Oh, and, right. I typically won't out my town reads unless I have reason to like with Shinori since I had literally just been discussing how doing multiple "Oh hey guys, that scummy thing I did was a reaction test" is a bad idea. So... actually I did have more reads than just eclipse in that post, I had Shinori too. Way to selective read Manix.

For reference, the whole post Manix was quoting from:

Ok, thoughts after quickly reading through the thread:

People should be careful about how much they try and pull reaction tests because if you start pulling multiple "Oh, that was just a reaction test." after getting called out for being scummy, people are less likely to believe you and it's more likely to get mislynches happening. That being said, overall I'm getting a townie read from Shinori, so uh... just be careful with that in the future?

I'm going to

##Vote:eclipse

for right now, largely because as I was reading through the thread I got a very passive manipulating feel from her. It seems to me like she's trying to get other people to do stuff without actually committing to much herself. Even if people are inactive, there's still discussion that can be had. Also your idea for testing hated modifiers seems like a weird push that could accidentally get someone lynched. If you think things that are happening are a waste of time, why not find something that isn't a waste of time? People sitting back and waiting for other people to post isn't going to help the inactivity problem.

Besides eclipse, I'm getting vaguely neutral reads on most other people. Lets try and do some more stuff guys.

Oh, speaking of stuff, apparently Xinnidy saw fit to not claim that I am Lover ------ and as such as long as it's not MYLO/LYLO I take one extra vote to get lynched.

[Elieson]

Guess what, I feel lousy. Thus, I will rip posts to shreds while feeling lousy. In other words, if I hurt your feelings, grow a spine.

Shinori - You're literally the only person whose vote I do not have an issue with, since you're not trying to justify it as something patently stupid. Also, get well soon.

Elieson - Your first post contained a bunch of one-line responses, and half of it was completely unnecessary. The previous sentence is technically correct, but it's also a gigantic misrep in regards to your intention. I hope you understand my sentiment. Next, you didn't even bother to define rolefishing, even though you're accusing me of it. That test was made to catch liars - so, do you have a reason to lie about such a thing? Do you think BBM has one? If not, then neither of you will be lynched, and we'll know that there's multiple voting modifiers (though I have no idea how the hell this fits into anything, given that my knowledge of the game obviously didn't include stuff regarding voting modifiers). The fact that you turned this entire thing around into a vote makes me want to lynch you over BBM - the latter, at least, kept his cool.

Balcerzak - I'll address this, since you bothered to read what I said. FIRST, day abilities have not been explicitly ruled out by the mod, so discounting the 1 vs. 1 thing on that basis isn't something I'd assume. Hated test allows for a way to test both claims, because I do have my doubts about two Hateds in the same game (actually, two of anything, but I digress). I don't immediately assume that Miller has another part to their role, so why should I do the same for Hated? So I'm completely sorry to disappoint you because I didn't think of every single detail, but deal with it. Also, your definition of rolefish doesn't fit with what I said, because the "more to it" doesn't tell me anything useful (since that could be filled in with anything from Something Really Useful to Tree Stump). It's also a patently terrible idea to assume people should react to X, Y, and Z the exact same way you would, too.

scorri - Your vote legitimately pisses me off. See, you're part of the inactive problem, because you sure as hell weren't around on Sunday. It's like you didn't read what I posted about activity, and decided that you somehow felt that I should get reads off of the other people who were absent, despite the fact that you don't have a lot of reads, either. Also, "accidentally" get someone lynched? The only accident will be if either of them lied about their role. As for me asking to stop the petty bickering? All I saw was an argument that was going nowhere, and all it would do is give someone like you an excuse not to do things. In other words, your original vote was extremely hypocritical, and the fact that you're now justifying your vote while conveniently ignoring the fact that most of the game wasn't present tells me that you're either being extremely lazy or seriously misrepping me. Given the amount of weak language ("It seems" is really noncommittal) in your initial vote, coupled with the fact that your vote on me is partially backed up by your own admission, I'm leaning towards misrep.

Shin - Pot, kettle. Until you come up with a better case that isn't a bloody echo, that's your response.

BBM - No vote, but I'll respond to this. I saw Balcerzak in the topic that day, which was more than I saw out of people that weren't myself/you/Shinori/Manix (none of who I felt were worth votes); thus, my vote for Balcerzak.

Rapier - No, you don't get to justify a vote on me like that and get away with it. Did you even read the part where I said I was angry with you guys? Why should I give out reads that would be a whole lot of "fuck you all for being lazy"? That was a lazy wagon, I called it such, and you just HAD to hop on. Lastly, don't patronize me - I didn't see you doing anything useful earlier. Also, what the fuck is this about me being inactive? Two-thirds of the game wasn't even present in the time frame I outlined, including you, in case you missed/failed to read my post.

Bluedoom - HI!

Now that I've explained WHY I suggested it. . .

Bananas - I know you moved your vote, but I'm gonna respond to it anyway. See, I listen to other people. I threw that idea out because nothing was happening, and I wanted something to happen. The people who were present on Sunday HST pointed out what was wrong with it, which is why I dropped it. Good or bad, if it's something that I think should be shared, I will. As for what they'd talk about, the only fruitful discussion vein I could see would be Manix talking about BBM - Shinori's discussion revolved around people that weren't there, which doesn't help with reads on them. I answered the rest in my first rant.

I want to lynch a full quarter of the game - Elieson for not answering my rolefishing question AND getting up in arms over my idea (it wasn't meant to be a reaction test, but I wound up getting useful stuff out of it, so WTF), scorri for everything that I outlined, Shin for providing nothing original. Since Shin has votes to answer for, I'm going with this.

##Unvote

##Vote: scorri

Take my vote and run with it, because that's a better case than the entirety of the drivel I've seen against me. I vote who I will, and I give exactly no shits if this makes me scummier - I will speak my mind.

Really quickly, before anything else,Scorri didn't sub in on Sunday; she subbed in on Monday. So of course she wasn't around on Sunday....she wasn't even in the game on Sunday. And here you are calling us lazy.

Alright clipsey, let me break this down. I pointed out the rolefishing attempt that I thought you made, but I didn't clarify it with details because I figured you would read what I bolded and figure it out yourself.

If you are Hated (something else), this might be a problem, but eh.

Right there. Look at this from my POV, or an objective POV (from before you ever-so-recently declared this as a Liar-catching-Test or whatever you consider it) You're prodding so gently that it seems like the only way you're concerned about ignoring the hated doubleclaims and not running your test is if BBM claims something else important. The way you worded this, to me, comes off as an attempt to pry information from BBM regarding his role (hence, the Role fishing part), and it's both unnecessary and scummy. tl;dr I saw you trying to extract information under the guise of a newly-named "test". Don't like it? Too bad.

Now the Italicized part (at the bottom of the quoted reply). You're backing off of your own statement like it was either a joke or you just doing something scummy to start things up, but you retract the potentiality of it being a reaction test by calling it a test to catch liars...which is sort of a reaction test, wouldn't you say? So do me a favor. Explain to me the difference between

That test was made to catch liars

and

it wasn't meant to be a reaction test,

Because until you do, I'm viewing this as you saying one thing and then saying the opposite : the definition of hypocrisy or waffling, if I recall.

Continuing on about your view of my vote:

I don't think BBM has any reason to lie about it. However, that doesn't make his word true. BBM's intentions for claiming Hated are likely town FMPOV, but I don't know for sure, because nothing is set regarding a Hated [whatever] for being aligned with any side. However, the point is that you're willing to put two players on the line just for the sake of Role-testing, on D1, when absolutely nothing has been established (that I know of anyway). Or was this part of your test that wasn't actually a test? So I voted for you. I'm being lazy because I thought you could interpret meaning from a restated line that you made yourself. I was wrong. Forgive me for not being on the same level of sentiment as you are but I really don't see it from your POV.

[Sunwoo]

I apologize for the last votals, I have no idea how they got so screwed up. Let me fix those.

[Sunwoo]

Votals:

Shin (4): BBM, Fera, Balcerzak, Shinori

eclipse (2): Elieson, Rapier

Rapier (3): Serious Bananas, scorri, Shin

Xinnidy/scorri (3): eclipse, Marth, Manix

Not voting: None

Thank you, scorri. Someone remind me not to do anything mafia-related past one in the morning.

You have 8 hours and 40 minutes left.

[charlie_]

If Shin gets here, he should probably claim.

[Shin]

Yo, I guess if you all want to murder me so bad, I should claim then.

I am Eryka F, whoever they are. My ability is that I can paint pictures of people at night. If I die at night, the last person I painted a picture of's role PM is shown to everyone. I can also post at night, I'll show you if you don't murder my face off! Wow, that sounds really stoopid, but it's true, I swear! Also, I agree with Eli's logic on BBM. Why someone would lie about hated is beyond me... which is what I've been saying for a while now.

[Shinori]

##unvote:

Oracle with night talk. I'll believe the claim at the moment.

The night talk is easily provable.

[Balcerzak]

omg Eryka! Did you see the latest Chihayafuru? Sqqqquuuueeeee!! Arata and Shinobu go so well together, isn't it just adorable? Also, also, are you caught up in Fairy Tale now? If not, I'd be more than willing to watch the episodes over with you again.

Also, this seriously puts me in a conundrum. At this point it's either scorri, or back to eclipse, or try to lynch someone with zero votes as of current in the nex 6-8 hours (lol). Then again, on the other hand, proving the insomniac part of the role, doesn't actually prove alliance. Before I unvote and reassign, I need to do some serious thread searching.

[charlie_]

Balcerzak, did you miss the fact Rapier had 3 votes on him or are you ignoring it.

Shin's claim is believable enough (and if not he might eat a vigshot tonight anyway), and I feel more confident with Rapier than with other wagons.

[Balcerzak]

I'm well aware of Rapier's current vote total.

[Grace]

Because it was a thought I had and I didn't see a reason to hide it from everyone else. Why should I hide my thought process if sharing it doesn't give away info to the mafia or anything?

Okay.

I wanna see his reaction to me turning his statement against him

also because he's doing that thing again where he subtly tries to undermine the credibility of others (case in point was the elieson doubt)

- just after I made those posts last night

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

Wrong answer bud

I don't have time to address other shit right now because i accidentally slept in oops, I only skimmed it. scorri answered my questions so i'll look at that when I have more time

[MancerNecro]

Balcerzak, if you're referring to the anime, it's Fairy Tail and not Fairy Tale.

[Shin]

With eclipse's recent improvement, I'd much rather not lynch her. Her content was lacking before, but her last big post made up for it. Scorri isn't really lynch material either. I'm sticking with Rapier, I'll check one of the other two out overnight. If I'm killed, we'll get to see!

[scorri]

So I'd obviously rather not get lynched. I don't really understand why I would be tbh. I feel like I've explained my case on eclipse pretty well and the people calling me out for being a hypocrite wrt activity are just wrong so... However, if people want me to claim, I can.

[BBM]

You're voting me for what? Saying I had a weird feeling about some of your posts and somehow undermining someone's credibility? Manix, please tell me how exactly I'm undermining anybody's credibility if you want me to take that vote seriously, because it's pretty terrible as of now.

I don't really think Eclipse or Scorri are scum at the moment, and Shin's claim feels realistic and the Insomniac part at least is provable, so ##Unvote, ##Vote: Rapier

[Grace]

You're voting me for what? Saying I had a weird feeling about some of your posts and somehow undermining someone's credibility? Manix, please tell me how exactly I'm undermining anybody's credibility if you want me to take that vote seriously, because it's pretty terrible as of now.

I already mentioned the Elie point before in my one of my other posts, I'm not going to rehash that. Instead I'll leave what I said before about it:

basically this is what started tipping me off more: you said you were perfectly okay with doing the test but yet you shoved a small amount of doubt on Elie with the whole "but I don't particularly want to get lynched if Elie is lying for whatever reason"

Now onto the point in question again:

I can't really find a problem with what Manix says, but his posts seem to be following someone else a lot of the time. Not really sure how to explain it.

Let's break this down. You say you don't find problems with what I'm saying, okay that's a decent statement by itself. But you then proceed to give a reason that it's a possibility that I shouldn't be trusted, ie undermining my credibility.

okay gonna look over scorri posts now, gimme a bit

[Balcerzak]

Okay guys, you're forcing my hand here.

Rapier is my Bulletproof Mason sister. Get the fuck off.

[BBM]

I'm not trying to undermine your credibility. I'm saying I got a vibe from your posts that I didn't like. Being wary of somebody, whether it's you or Elieson, doesn't count as undermining their credibility, and if it does, it's not undermining their credibility in a harmful way. Undermining credibility is bad when you're using non-game reasons to do so. Saying I'm suspicious of you is a comment that I should be allowed to make in a game of mafia. This is honestly a terrible argument.