Drafters Mafia Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Terrador]

Oh, fuck, I forgot the one obvious thing.

Since he's the scummiest player about at the moment, I'm going to ##Join the Mob Which I Hope Will Lynch Marth.

[BBM]

Terrador makes a decent point about JB not having much to his posts other than defending himself. That the RVS wagon on him lasted that long was dumb, but that doesn't give him an excuse to do nothing else than try to get it off. All he has is a vote against Breezy for sheeping, and then a vote for Bearclaw for sheeping onto Breezy. How is it scummy for Bear to find Breezy scum when JB had just been voting there himself?

However, Terra, why are you so sure that Marth is scum? Your reasons seem based largely on his claim and him hopping around with his vote today. Yet you were rather willing to lynch him yesterday as well. Was that solely over the claim? It's like 4:30 and I'm super tired, so you might have given more reason yesterday, but I can't remember atm.

[Zkirsche]

What exactly were Terra/JB/Darros talking about? Just them not understanding what Prims was up to.

Not just that at all, it was discussion as to if they were scummy or not.

As for there being discussion to talk about- if that was the case, why didn't you say anything about what they were saying at the time?

Because I wasn't paying attention.

As for what he said about SSG, townreads might not be irrelevant, but they're not immediately relevant either. You can't scumhunt using townreads until you have enough to PoE from them. So no, I don't find stating townreads on D1 to be particularly helpful, especially when townreads that early are rather easy to revoke later.

Even if they're easy to revoke, they have to be revoked with good reasoning. Outing town reads isn't super helpful but it gives us an insight into her thoughts and mind and if she flipped scum we would have a potential lead on who might be her buddy. I find it daft that Elie criticises SSG for not having a lot of reads, and then when she goes and makes the effort to make the reads half of them are waved off as 'pointless' when they actually aren't.

[BBM]

It's actually super easy to revoke D1 "townreads" later on- "oh there are a bunch of clears so FMPOV these person is probably scum so I guess my D1 townread was just wrong." They're not useless, no, but if you ask someone to provide reads, they're hardly what you're looking for. I don't find Elie's arguments against SSG to be bad.

Also IIRC Elie voted Darros based on RVS stuffs, so saying Elie was ignoring that discussion is not exactly correct.

[Zkirsche]

So? Elie asked for reads, SSG gave them. Is it a bad thing that SSG had a town read on Scorri? If not, don't dismiss her reads and then claim she hasn't got enough of them.

His vote post is hardly what I'd call contributing. Instead of that he should've actively participated in those discussions.

[Zkirsche]

By "instead of that" I mean "Instead of his reaction test".

[charlie_]

Votals

(2) Marth: Shinori, Terrador

(1) Bear: Marth

(1) kirsche: BBM

(1) Terrador: Elieson

(1) Elieson: kirsche

Not Voting: Shin, scorri, Rapier, Breezy, Strege, JB

You have 61 hours and 55 minutes left in the phase. With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 8 to hammer.

[Bluedoom]

Uh terra, how was my claim suspicious? Would you rather have lynched me if I just logged off and not claimed?

Would you have rather lynched me when I was offline and didn't claim? >_>

And of course I'm gonna lash out at people who just say I'm coasting when a lot of people were not really doing much D1 either. I don't really get it

[Shin]

Yo! Yaranaika! I like waffles! MY MOM! Groovy! I can't believe people think I sound like that.

Sorry I've been at work the last two days, dem hospitals.

Marth's main problem is that he's been very defensive, and has had relatively little content that's actually productive. His D1 analysis wasn't horrible, other than the misread, but I feel that's him trying to compensate for his lackluster day 1.

##YouHaveNoPants: Marth

Also, whilst it doesn't really factor into my vote, getting angry is not going to do you any favours when it comes to explaining yourself.

JB's content is still pretty poor other than making bad "jokes" and trying to sleep by counting sheep. Breezy, I feel is trying to help but doesn't actually have any idea what to do. If he were scum, I'd imagine they'd provide him with things to say so he doesn't sound too bad. That's what the scumteam did for me in my first mafia game. I'm also not a fan of the Rapier, but I never am really. His defense of JB is incredibly poor, saying that the RVS thing doesn't even matter, and ignoring his lack of useful content. But hey, that's Rapier.

Eli, you're still confusing me. You seem really strange this game. I don't think it leans either way at this point, but I don't get it.

[Da Bear]

Don't have a vote yet! Can't believe I forgot that.

##Vote: Shinori

Even with what I said yesterday I'm really not liking this post.

Oh yeah I'm not moving my vote from marth today so we should just get on this lynch. This is scum.

I get that you have a scumread on Marth but I don't like how you seem to be completely certain about it early D2 and say you'll continue to vote him even if something comes up (like a more scummy player).

[Jaybee]

Also, FYI: Breezy said he was on his phone recently, and has been gone from Shinvel as well; I'd personally give him another 24 hours or so to pull something up. If not, then we can start getting suspicious, but otherwise, I don't see him as anything but truthful townie.

inactivity =/= scumminess

i think i fucked up the formatting but i'll fix it later if it's really bad

This series of posts concerns me. Breezy seems pretty darn sure of kidnapper being scum, and while I'm not sure if BBM could've kidnapped himself, (generally people can't self-target), I can see him trying to set up something later regarding a scum!kidnapper being lynched and throwing a (more likely town)!BBM under the bus in the case of a flip. If he is indeed tracker, I'd like to see 1: Results from last night, and 2: reasons why he targetted whomever he targetted.

---

This series of posts has me more concerned. Why? Terraderp seems much more sure that our claimed Tracker is telling the truth, while our claimed Amnesiac is lying. Terra doesn't give any sort of reasoning as to why he believes/disbelieves the claims, he just does.

---

things begin to make more sense when you realise that both breezy and terrador are really new

It's understandable to at least think that kidnap is a scum role if you're totally new to the game, and I'm not sure if Breezy would be thinking so... long-term? True, it's much better to not assume anything about the kidnapper, and he seemed pretty set on the idea of scum!kidnapper on scum!BBM, but I think we'd need to see more from him to understand his thoughts now.

I don't think it's too unreasonable for Terrador to have that opinion of the Tracker/Amnesiac either. Breezy's been coming off as very noob-town, and it's obvious he's been trying his hardest. Marth, on the other hand... I don't really know, I'm leaning more scum because I think the timing of the claim and the wording of it was pretty bad. Yes, maybe both Marth and Breezy or lying, or they're both telling the truth, but Terrador's logic isn't that out there, imo.

Terrador makes a decent point about JB not having much to his posts other than defending himself. That the RVS wagon on him lasted that long was dumb, but that doesn't give him an excuse to do nothing else than try to get it off. All he has is a vote against Breezy for sheeping, and then a vote for Bearclaw for sheeping onto Breezy. How is it scummy for Bear to find Breezy scum when JB had just been voting there himself?

At the time, Breezy was doing a lot more than Bear - He was obviously trying his hardest (though he was using all the wrong methods) while Bear had sheeped and been pretty much useless after that. Also, Breezy's method of defending himself (ie nothing) was so bad that I became sure he was noob town. He pretty much asked why he was getting lynched, then immediately started talking about BBM's kidnap for no fucking reason at all, before... claiming tracker. It's essentially screaming noob town.

also

For me it looks like you're not really trying to find scum. If you could post thoughts on other people it would be nice.

Just voting JB because "wagin" isn't cutting it at all for me.

after voting breezy for p much the same reason

I'm not having a very good opinion of bear/Marth, but the one I really find weird is Elie. His reaction test really feels out of place, and he says he wanted a response from the novices, yet he blatantly ignores the fact that the people he's harping on now are those same novices.

I'm pretty sure you know my stance on Darros, and I'm more than willing to switch back to my primary scumread, assuming others continue to feel the same and actually shift their votes over

This is also weird because at the point when this came out, I'm fairly sure Elie's primary scum read was SSG/Breezy, not Darros.

and then he's fairly enthusiastic about getting darros lynched

opportunity zing

##Vote: Elie

[Jaybee]

hah the formatting isn't that bad

[Elieson]

Elie, I'd just like to say: claiming you tracked BBM is beyond fishy; nobody would dare do it unless it was the truth. I highly doubt that Breezy would do so unless that was what he legitimately did.

Amnesiac, on the other hand... is very easy to claim, takes at least two days to disprove (more if you claim your night action didn't take for whatever reason), and was made under, if I recall correctly, more duress than the Tracker claim. That, on top of Marth's already-somewhat-shady play? Definitely has me concerned.

Ok. Flip the coin. Tracker is easy to fake (or fake resuts with). Imagine "night 1: Syntax for Track SOMEONE-THAT-ISN'T-BBM" gives Scumteam results, and if this kidnapper flips scum, then it does incriminate Breezy. To an extent. Breezy can easily say "guys I tracked BBM n0 because I just wanted to" and that indicates nothing regarding towniness or scumminess. Because it does nothing and can easily be argued one way or another, it leaves breezy in a position where he can argue innocence quite easily.

This does lean too much on associative flips though (which BBM did point out), but if you had read my post, you' have seen that I did not vote for breezy, I didn't FOS

So? Elie asked for reads, SSG gave them. Is it a bad thing that SSG had a town read on Scorri? If not, don't dismiss her reads and then claim she hasn't got enough of them.

His vote post is hardly what I'd call contributing. Instead of that he should've actively participated in those discussions.

"I don't like his attitude" isn't a read.

"I got nothing on [5 users]" isn't a read.

How can you possibly say that SSg posted reads when the majority of what she said did not indicate her thoughts regarding player alignment?

Well there was a whole bunch of terrador posts to interact with, Darros and JB discussions were happening. Just because you ignored the discussions doesn't mean they weren't there.

"I like hamburgers

You're a jerk for liking hamburgers.

Hamburgers taste better with ketchup

I stole a hamburger once"

That can be viewed as discussion that "happened", but is largely useless. Their interactions, FMPOV, didn't seem to indicate anything aside from bickering that meant nothing. If I thought it was discussion that mattered, I'd have pointed it out. I'm pretty sure I've proven capable of having literacy and using it, so not sure why I'm "ignoring" posts in which a few guys are bickerig in a way that doesn't provide me with an opinion regarding alignment.

I am sure that Breezy is not fakeclaiming and that he is a tracker. Scum trackers exist, but it's not like Marth was obvtown and we'd lose less from a UB lynch than a tracker lynch.

Gut

Wtf. you just said "I KNOW MARTH IS 100% TRACKER BECAUSE I THINK HE IS" and then providing examples as to how your assumption knowledge is botched.

I don't get why you didn't like SSG, I find your "rearrangement" of her thoughts post to be overly incriminating just to back your case. Not scummy =/= nothing and town reads aren't irrelevant. "Your thought on breezy doesnt actually say what you think about him." is also false because SSG said she found Breezy suspicious in her verdict.

##Vote: Elieson

Summing up Shinori's suspicion on Marth as just "bad because coasting" is wrong too, as half of the point comes from the fact that Marth sheeped onto Prims.

SSG was a "leaning scum" read FMPOV. In that post she said "I don't like his attitude".

Truth be told, I don't like that bearclaw has numbers at the end of his name, but that doesn't make him scummy. Disliking someone's attitude is such a shitty fallback statement because if he flips town then she can say "I never accused him of being scum, I just didt like his attitude", and if he flips scum, she can say "see I knew it!"

More coming, gotta jump to a new comp

[Elieson]

Elie is going after someone based on associative reads without a flip again. Okay, I agree with you that Terra's logic in assuming that Breezy is more likely to be telling the truth and Marth less likely is bad. But why is it scummy? There's only scum intent there if Breezy is his buddy and he's trying to defend him. Now FMPOV Breezy is more likely to be town because I know that if he's mafia, claiming results on one of his buddies visiting someone would be more role-confirming than outing results that somebody whom they hooked went nowhere, which they'd reveal as soon as they were able. Therefore I'm treating Terra's bad logic in this situation as a nulltell.

You don't have anything of that sort, and are therefore free to believe that Breezy and Terrador are scumbuddies, but basing your case on something that is scummy only if Breezy is mafia is bad.

Well then our POV's provide us with different thoughts. Though you are right, at this point my view on breezy and terra are both sort of situational, but I found Terraderp to be scummy because of how sure he seemed to be. He wasn't even trying to listen to Marth's claim, but felt tracker was as close to the truth as most think the bible is. The way he handled it came off as more scummy to me, hence my suspicion.

Router dead sticking on phone

[Elieson]

Shin: He makes good points. However, the relative inactivity from him is rather odd; he's been fairly quiet, and what content he has is about 70% Rapier, with only passing mention of people seriously under consideration for lynch. It's too early to call, but I'm leaning more scum than town for him at the moment.

Shinori: He's made a couple of prods, talked to everybody--seems to be doing his job, in my humble opinion. I do find it a bit odd that he's so absolutely dead-set on Marth, but, frankly, I really do think Marth's scum, so that's understandable. I'm also curious about him faulting Rapier over what was, if memory serves, just a more-serious prod when he did the exact same thing... call this a null read.

Bluedoom/Marth: Scum, scum, scum, scum, scum. He made a scummy claim at a suspicious time, and has been flaky and primarily lashing out at players who target him. Three vote changes before anything happens? Seriously? SCUM.

Scorri... I really don't know what to make of her. She hasn't done anything to make me think she's scum, but on the other, I really cannot understand how she so fervently thinks Breezy is scum. Null read.

BBM: He's been reading hard and being active since he got back, and to date I haven't seen him overlook something or found a hole in his logic--that said, there's a lot of time in the game. My gut says townie, but the kidnapping seems as likely to be scum gambit as it is to be removal of a strong player.

Bearclaw: I... think he's town, strangely enough. He really hasn't done much, but he's asking questions and trying to parse things out now, and will start being more active when he gets a better handle on things. His RVS is a bit sketch, but I of all people can't fault him for playing badly then. By evidence it should be a null read, but I'd honestly put him on my townie list, by sheer gut feeling.

Rapier: I don't feel particularly confident saying this, but nothing he's done seems scummy. He's missed some things, made some poor points, but I don't see anything scummy about putting pressure on various users and not really wagoning anyone, even if it could be done better.

Elieson is chasing very odd, relatively minor issues that are pretty easily debunked. He really seems to be too good of a player for that. I've come around on the reaction test; I don't think that's scummy anymore, after some more thought. Have I said that already? It's 1 AM and I can't recall. That said, he's been chasing people for very strange reasons, which worries me. His case on Darros in particular was right flimsy, and though I don't agree with his interpretation of Breezy, I can see it as legitimate.

Ah, Breezy. His behavior with Prims has been perfectly justifiable imo--nearly half of us were confused at what happened, myself among them, and I really don't get what the wagon on him was about. Oh, man, can't have misunderstandings, clearly. Nearly half of us made the same mistake, and the poor boy's the one under fire. What really does it for me, though, is the tracker claim. WHY would a scum do what he did? As BBM said (and I really didn't think of), he wouldn't target the kidnap target if he had any plans of claiming and proving his role in the first Day or two. However, I was convinced just by this: why would he admit that he targeted BBM and got jack shit? I know Breezy half-decently, and between my interactions with him and his behavior in the thread, my gut is yelling at me that he wouldn't dare attempt a gambit like that. The evidence isn't there yet, but I'm almost certain that Breezy is a townie.

Strege has basically seemed to me like another Shin, only showing up earlier and spreading the focus around more. He seems pretty townie, but it definitely worries me when smart people and/or good players are quiet.

JB's done a lot of posting, with very little content. I don't find his not getting the Prims thing scummy in vacuum, but at the same time, I'm really curious as to why he's done just about no original scumhunting. Not sure he's mafioso, but not thinking that he's townie at the moment.

It's 1:25 in the morning, and I'm headed to bed. If I derped on explaining any of this, or you just want to talk to me about something, let me know and I'll address it tomorrow. For now: good night, everybody.

Kirsche, this is a list post that explains its shit, not SSG's. can you figure the difference between this and hers?

It's actually super easy to revoke D1 "townreads" later on- "oh there are a bunch of clears so FMPOV these person is probably scum so I guess my D1 townread was just wrong." They're not useless, no, but if you ask someone to provide reads, they're hardly what you're looking for. I don't find Elie's arguments against SSG to be bad.

Also IIRC Elie voted Darros based on RVS stuffs, so saying Elie was ignoring that discussion is not exactly correct.

I voted Darros for an unnecessarily early soft defense of Terra. Prims was my RVS vote.

So? Elie asked for reads, SSG gave them. Is it a bad thing that SSG had a town read on Scorri? If not, don't dismiss her reads and then claim she hasn't got enough of them.

His vote post is hardly what I'd call contributing. Instead of that he should've actively participated in those discussions.

As I've said, SSG's reads were more like personal opinions about the player in question and not their alignment. And the topics at hand were bad and not leading to anything so I changed what I could to get actual discussion rolling.

<analyzing that LISTPOST in a few>

[Elieson]

Actually I'm thinkin

##Unvote

##Vote kirsche

I feel like he's not only playing with a lot of self-depreciation and pity, but also trying quite hard to set me up by refusing to acknowledge the reasoning behind any of my actions

[Darros]

cool mafuya game guys

[Strege]

I feel like some people are outing townreads indiscriminately, which is oftentimes bad for town. Don't feel like you need to include every player in your listposts. Also, while I think self-deprecation can be indicative of scumminess from some players, please don't make it a big part of your read on someone.

Oh yeah I'm not moving my vote from marth today so we should just get on this lynch. This is scum.

This... I'm not sure I can properly articulate a response to this. The last time you gave a proper, reasoned read of Marth was post 150, What do you think of his claim? Did you get anything from the PM flips? More importantly, what are your other scumreads? You said one thing about Rapier on D1 and only looked into Darros because people asked you to. Your reasoning looks selective and contrived to me.

Bearclaw is also sort of bad. His reactions to Prims's "serious" RVS vote on him were a bit jumpy, though that could be explained through being new. What sticks out more with him is his stance on Shinori. He literally says that Shinori being scummy is not scummy for Shinori. There are good uses of meta, but that is not one of them. You use meta to differentiate between town and mafia play for a person. If Shinori is scummy as both town and mafia, then saying he's town based off him being scummy is a bad reason for defending him. His only real read is Breezy, which is okay I suppose.

cut by him, in which he seems to forget his earlier statement about Shinori? A lot of his reads don't really follow directly from the reasoning he gives, which combined with him being a new player, gives me the feeling that most of them are gut based (a nulltell). A bunch of them are null too.

It's also a personal pet peeve of mine when people strike out self-deprecating statements (both him and Terra are guilty of this).

Even before the cut I think this is a pretty waffley assessment. BBM criticized bad meta as if that were scummy, and I don't understand how it is, and throws in "maybe it's because he's a newer player" comments and points out a pet peeve (is it scummy?) which make his opinion difficult to discern. BBM, can you summarize your read of bearclaw more clearly? Also, which posts of his during RVS do you feel are jumpy?

Terrador makes a decent point about JB not having much to his posts other than defending himself. That the RVS wagon on him lasted that long was dumb, but that doesn't give him an excuse to do nothing else than try to get it off. All he has is a vote against Breezy for sheeping, and then a vote for Bearclaw for sheeping onto Breezy. How is it scummy for Bear to find Breezy scum when JB had just been voting there himself?

Also, if JB's vote was on for sheeping then timing and reasoning is more relevant than the scumminess of the sheepee, isn't it? The way you present this question is strange in that respect, and I find you a bit suspect overall.

I've gone from scummy to null to (somewhat) scummy again on Elie. In retrospect his vote on Darros was quite weak, only ever referencing the observation that he was defending Terra early on. The D2 vote on Terra seems poorly explained and the kirsche vote poorly supported (tunneling/self-deprecation happen all the time in townies). It's odd that I think Elie's reads are okay except for those on the people he has actually voted. Altogether, I'd lean somewhat scummy.

JB, could you expound on your bad feelings about bearclaw and Marth? I find it rather concerning that much of your D2 content post was spent diffusing arguments or expressing townreads, yet you didn't explain your scumreads other than Elie.

##Vote: Shinori, as he's simply my biggest scumread right now by a significant margin and really needs to share some more reads.

Sorry for walling, and sorry to Darros. Lynching without a claim D1 is pretty dumb I suppose. >.>

[BBM]

Bad meta is easy to use to justify whatever bullshit case you want to make, so it can be scummy. I'm not handwaving everything that Bear is doing by saying he's new either, just those parts that I think can be ascribed to his newbiness (bad meta, IMO, is not one of them). I'll admit my wording for a lot of what I say about him is waffly, but that's because my read on him is waffly. I have trouble reading new players because it's hardest to separate bad play from scummy play for them, so I tend to let a lot of stuff go. As for the JB thing, I suppose that's true, except Bear's vote wasn't even all that sheepy. It was the third vote on the wagon when there were other wagons there. And JB's reason for switching was that Breezy was trying harder due to his spec about me, which is kind of lame.

The pet peeve isn't actually scummy, it's just annoying enough to me that I tend to let it colour my opinion of the person doing it even when I know it shouldn't.

Elie- Darros's "unnecessarily early soft defence of Terrador" occurred during the time period that Kirsche was referring to as them discussing things. My point was that saying you ignored that wouldn't be correct. What I don't understand about you is why this unnecessarily early soft defence was quite literally your only reason for him being your top scumread all the way at the end of D1, after all the stuff you said about SSG and Breezy.

[BBM]

Another thing I don't like about JB is that in 185, he was like "there's literally no reason to talk about BBM so much unless you're the scum kidnapper" and then in 196 (only around an hour and a half later) and just recently in 286 he was like "breezy is probably confused newbtown due to BBMspec". This change in opinion seems... odd.

[Zkirsche]

"I don't like his attitude" isn't a read.

Finding Darros, Breezy and JB suspicious.

That is a read though, one that you overlooked just so you could push a case on her that wasn't there.

Also having null reads on 5 people D1 isn't as big a deal as you make it out to be. Which is the point of my criticisms Elie: you twisted her words to make her seem worse than she was.

Wtf. you just said "I KNOW MARTH IS 100% TRACKER BECAUSE I THINK HE IS" and then providing examples as to how your assumption knowledge is botched.

If it makes you feel better we can get Breezy's result to further justify his claim.

Kirsche, this is a list post that explains its shit, not SSG's. can you figure the difference between this and hers?

Terrador's is a better list post, that I can't deny, but SSG putting little effort in her reads is not a scumtell.

SSG was a "leaning scum" read

You put her in the same bracket as Breezy who was a "#2-3 likely scumdidate". Not sure what that meant but it doesn't look "slightly scummy" to me.

In that post she said "I don't like his attitude".

But that's not all she said. You said that she didn't say what she thought of Breezy when she actually did. Either you're blatantly ignoring it or you're failing at reading.

"I never accused him of being scum, I just didt like his attitude", and if he flips scum, she can say "see I knew it!"

If someone said either of those things in response to a lynch I'd see it as scummy and become suspicious. The former is much worse than the latter because you're not sticking to your reads. All this is irrelevant however because that's not what SSG said. SSG said that Breezy was suspicious.

And the topics at hand were bad and not leading to anything so I changed what I could to get actual discussion rolling.

"Not leading to anything" How? People talking about scummy behaviour is not a bad topic at all, what you did just confused everyone and cut off the discussion. You can't just call it townie bickering and then just go and lead town astray, why didn't you say it looked like townies bickering? What made you think they were probably town in the first place?

I feel like he's not only playing with a lot of self-depreciation and pity, but also trying quite hard to set me up by refusing to acknowledge the reasoning behind any of my actions

So you're voting me because I don't believe you and because I made a self-depreciative comment? That's really weak dude and is basically an OMGUS.

Also on the topic of Shinori, it seems to me that he's always like this. He was definitely like this is 2hu and he was town there so meta tells me town but that's not saying much. He's someone I need actual information on before making a judgement, so I'll wait until later in teh game before making a verdict.

[Terrador]

However, Terra, why are you so sure that Marth is scum? Your reasons seem based largely on his claim and him hopping around with his vote today. Yet you were rather willing to lynch him yesterday as well. Was that solely over the claim? It's like 4:30 and I'm super tired, so you might have given more reason yesterday, but I can't remember atm.

It's just so many shady things stacking up. The activity is iffy, and lacking in content, the claim is very shady at a very inopportune time, he's flitting around from vote to vote, he's highly defensive... I just can't see all that and consider him town. I genuinely cannot.

Ok. Flip the coin. Tracker is easy to fake (or fake resuts with). Imagine "night 1: Syntax for Track SOMEONE-THAT-ISN'T-BBM" gives Scumteam results, and if this kidnapper flips scum, then it does incriminate Breezy. To an extent. Breezy can easily say "guys I tracked BBM n0 because I just wanted to" and that indicates nothing regarding towniness or scumminess. Because it does nothing and can easily be argued one way or another, it leaves breezy in a position where he can argue innocence quite easily.

This does lean too much on associative flips though (which BBM did point out), but if you had read my post, you' have seen that I did not vote for breezy, I didn't FOS

Just because Breezy could say that doesn't mean he would though. Sure, he could try to follow BBM and gambit on the possibility that people will interpret it as I did--or he could just prove his role by targeting almost literally anyone else. I can see no reason for scum!Breezy to do what he's allegedly done, nor say what he's said. Just... just absolutely none.

This post should have gone up four and a half hours ago. Whoops--church does that.

[scorri]

Meh, ok. Trying to post here.

Someone, mentioned that I was "death tunneling" Breezy or something like that. I wouldn't agree with that. I wasn't around a ton D1, but in the middle I found Breezy scummy and then when I reappeared towards the end of the day, he was the only one of the three wagons I supported. I'm not 100% sure why that's considered death tunneling, but ok. He still hasn't appeared today, so I'm going to hold off voting him until he does appear, but still have a vaguely scummy read.

Now, onto more different things.

Prims kill honestly isn't that surprising to me. Both the tracker claim and the amnesiac claim were under pretty heavy suspicion yesterday, while Prims was like... super protown and not likely to get mislynched. At least... I don't remember anyone being suspicious of him after ED1 crazy. So, if both the tracker and amnesiac are town (I currently read Breezy as scum and Marth as twon fwiw), scum might have just thought they'd be easy mislynches. If they aren't both town, well, that would explain why they weren't shot. That's my two cents on the shot at least.

I don't like Shinori's tunneling on Marth right now. Unless he can give me a solid case on why Marth is scum, I'm likely going to just ignore his vote because it doesn't mean anything. All he's doing right now is yelling "MARTH IS SCUM MUST LYNCH NOW" but that doesn't mean anything. Really not liking this play, would not mind a lynch here.

Scorri: Starts out with an Eli vote because of the fake vig, I don't really like that. Going forward it's mainly anti-Breezy stuff but she mentions Kirsche's lack of activity and comments on the wagons with her last post. Not liking her much so far. Her votes seem to have poor reasoning behind them like mine, I'm a complete hypocrite.

Hi bear. Why don't you like my votes? Where's the scum intent behind them? To me, what I saw was Elie screwing around in thread and not actually contributing something that was helpful to discussion. Even though he made a reaction test, he didn't do anything with it beyond

breezy (never happened)
Darrps (didnt get much)
Terraderp (also, nothing really noteworthy, except his most recet post)
Kirsche (I have limited play experience with him so I wanted to see what would happen)
Strege (same thing)
All others

He makes a reaction test and then does nothing with it and moves on. This is one of the major reasons I don't like reaction tests. They spam up the thread, cause potential misreads, and then 9 times out of 10, the person doing the reaction test does nothing with the reactions they do get. As for the rest of my posts, provide reasonings why what I was doing was scummy or there's no way for me to respond to your concerns.

scorri tells me to shut up

Hi elie, that wasn't me telling you to shut up, that was me telling you to do something other than fake vigshots on people. You can do plenty in mafia that's not reaction testing and all you were really doing at that point was spamming the thread with nothing.

Until Breezy shows up, I'm going to

##Vote:kirsche

-Yesterday seriously votes Elie without any real case of his own, just sheeps me as hard as you can sheep someone

-Continues to vote Elie for just the reaction test, doesn't ever say why he finds him scummy besides said reaction test.

-Eventually drops Elie because he isn't getting lynched and instead votes Marth because "we'll lose less if he's town" Not because he finds him scummy, but because of role.

"why a reaction test, what was it's point?"

This is not in other people's cases and is in fact my reason for retaining my vote. I agreed with what you said and found it vote worthy and so I voted. I kept my vote because it was a dumb reaction test that wasn't helping town. 'Derping around for the sake of discussion' is dumb too because it's just an excuse to play badly and get away with it.

is the only real reason he gave for why Elie was scummy. Now, I may not like reaction tests, but I don't think they are inherently scummy. I just think they're dumb.

-Continuing today, he has continued to vote Elie for mostly the same reasons with a few minor things being added (Elie using a reaction test instead of joining in on JB/Darros stuff), is dead set on Breezy being tracker, and brings up SSG as an argument for why Elie is scummy, when the only mentions of SSG Elie has made are with respect to why SSG might have been the vig shot and some minor points at SSG's list post yesterday. Yet he didn't mention them at all yesterday as being scummy when they were made. He also has barely talked about anyone besides Elie today and is ignoring basically everything else that has happened.

Still find Breezy scummy, but am waiting a bit longer for him to show up, don't like Shinori's death tunnel one bit and want to see something that's not "MARTH IS SCUM" out of him (aka have a gut scum read here)

[Zkirsche]

doesn't ever say why he finds him scummy besides said reaction test.

Didn't have anything scummy on him or anyone else because I wasn't really reading, I just popped back in now and again and responsed to anything on the page or anything directed at me.

-Eventually drops Elie because he isn't getting lynched and instead votes Marth because "we'll lose less if he's town" Not because he finds him scummy, but because of role.

I was consolidating a lynch and didn't have much on either party. The fact that I am only consolidating should tell you that no, I didn't find him particularly scummy because if I did I would've been on him sooner. Not sure why this is scummy.

Now, I may not like reaction tests, but I don't think they are inherently scummy. I just think they're dumb.

His reaction test was so bad it was never going to accomplish anything other than confuse the town and now he's actually defending it as if it actually accomplished somethign and that there wasn't a better course of action.

Yet he didn't mention them at all yesterday as being scummy when they were made.

Because I didn't read at all yesterday.

Also I don't see what's scummy about reading an ISO in depth and then getting something new out of it.

And most of what's happened today is my attack on Elie. I've covered my thoughts on Shinori and you know my stance on Marth (a.k.a untrusting). If there's something else that's happened today that you'd especially like me to address I'll be more than happy to respond to it.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

If I wasnt on my phone and it isn't a pain to type a post, I would give my opinions. Expect them sometime tomorrow from me. I am reading every post that happens on the go so I can work things out BTW.