Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[euklyd]

Okay I really need to post more, even if I don't have any strong reads. Posting > not posting, because more information is always a good thing.
As I said, I'm not really getting a strong scumread on anyone, but I've been assuming I've been missing stuff because I'm inexperienced. But sure I'll try to put what I have into words.

I had earlier been strong scumreading Viata for agreeing with Weapons' flimsy reasoning against Boron and not saying what arguments she agreed with or why, just saying "I agree with Weapns" or "Weapons has a good point"; then when looking over stuff I noticed that Weapons had actually given a reason earlier, so I started second-guessing myself and didn't post my argument.

Viata's fight with eclipse wasn't giving me a good feeling, not really sure why, so I started going back to slightly scumreading Viata.
Probably for some petty reason like flip-flopping and tone. Threatening to sub out isn't earning points with me, but I'm not really getting a strong read anymore.

If anyone wants to see my original post about why I thought Viata was scummy I have it saved and can provide it, but it's long and I'm not sure it's really relevant anymore.

Some of what Manix is saying was making sense to me, but the

can I throw a few things out there before we get too ingrained in the massclaim idea

1) his claimed role, while strong as fuck, can easily be faked as scum (funny that) and can "clear" scum with the right result fake.
2) i see a number of people assuming shinori is town from role alone. why? (if you want my opinion, i'm nullreading him rn because role =/= alignment)
3) I'd argue that the people that seem to be all too sure of shinori being town are more likely scum. paper/eclipse/refa/and whoever else i've missed, 11pm posting too stronk
4) massclaiming outs protective roles anyway (prime kill/hook targets), which puts our investigative roles at risk. also consider chances are (I would damn hope) that massclaim won't break the game.

that be me take on this fishy massclaim business, mateys.

Some of what Manix is saying was making sense to me, but I don't like the way he starts threatening people if they disagree with him. Mostly I can see that role being faked, or attempted to be faked), and about the problems with massclaiming.

and the moment anyone takes a stab at me for putting a blanket statement over people as per point 3) above, know that I will drill into you for it later (the key point is "most likely", which is not to say they are definite scumreads, but eyes are being kept)

Not really sure if that's scummy or not, but the way he's making threats annoys me.

Oh right, I don't really see any reason to keep a vote on scorri; not sure if there's a point to unvoting, but whatever.
##unvote

I'm assuming I can get better reads once someone flips, but I'm not really seeing anything strong ATM.

[euklyd]

Some of what Manix is saying was making sense to me, but the

Some of what Manix is saying was making sense to me, but I don't like the way he starts threatening people if they disagree with him. Mostly I can see that role being faked, or attempted to be faked), and about the problems with massclaiming.

Not really sure if that's scummy or not, but the way he's making threats annoys me.

Crap I meant to get rid of that first fragmented statement, I was copypasting between tabs when quoting and editing.

Also I'm not really seeing why massclaiming is a smart move. Why is it a great idea to tell everyone our power roles, especially since we're not absolutely sure Shinori is town?

[scorri]

Euklyd, there is no point in not voting someone else. You have at least at least one slight scum read, so why not put your vote there? Otherwise you just waste your day power.

[euklyd]

Is there any point in voting anyone either?
Whatever.
I don't like Paperblade's reasoning on massclaiming. Also, looking back, I don't like this part either:

Like, I'm pretty much suggesting this because it means I can ignore you people and just rolespec my way to victory + I've always wanted to do this

Is this a joke?

Anyways convince me that massclaiming Day 1 is a good idea; until then...

##vote: Paperblade

[Paperblade]

I'm not going to go repost all that, you can read back 20 posts

[Paperblade]

or go check my iso

[Elieson]

I live, after a fun kids party and long night of work that sukkkkkked. Playing Ketchup now.

[euklyd]

@Paperblade - Oh right I forgot the second part of the reason I would rather massclaim tomorrow. Without I literally am just wasting your time, sorry.

Since Shinori isn't confirmed town, I would rather we lynch today without massclaiming, and the cop, assuming there is one, investigates Shinori overnight. In the morning, the cop claims and reveals the read he/she got on Shinori.

This would basically involve the cop suiciding, I guess, but I assume that the cop is one of the first people dying anyways since that's one of the best ways we have to confirm Shinori's alignment (as well as identifying scum), and uncertainty would make any info we get harder to use if we're doubting it all the time.

Anyways if Shinori is confirmed innocent then I'm fine with massclaiming, and if not then that tells us something about either Shinori or the claimed cop. Of course if there isn't a cop then this is useless.

Thoughts?

[scorri]

Shinori is basically a cop, just like... slightly different. There's no assurance we have another cop and if Shinori's role is as powerful as Paper claims, it's probably less likely we do.

[Paperblade]

I would be okay with a D2 massclaim, it's probably strictly better. I doubt there is a cop though, at best we have a joat with one but I don't think anyone ever fakeclaimed that (in fact I don't know if joat has ever been fakeclaimed period).

Shinori, does your role get results if a lynch fails due to the person not being able to die from it (such as say a LPV)?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I claim JOAT.

There.

[Paperblade]

I was going to reread but got distracted and started reading the game my role is from

thanks obama

[scorri]

I...

Weapons, could you *please* make one serious post about your reads that isn't saying everyone is town.

[Percivalé]

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

fuck it fuck everything fuck trying to be logical fuck me this is the vote I feel best about

Actual Case coming later, I can't concentrate rn. I've expressed a few points why I think Manix is scum though in previous posts already, and I think that attempting to discredit Shinori like that based on role =/= alignment argument is 100% what he would do as scum. fite me

Weapons please do a thing. do it for me

[Grace]

blind posting this before class:

i'm feeling really down and tired for whatever reason now. i don't think i have the mental capacity to deal with mafia for a while, so expect me back later, not sure when

[Zkirsche]

@Scorri: I don't really like using the whole "easy to vote" thing as an attack, because weapons was just as easy to vote in Kirby and he was scum.

i can see there being a very possible way to rig around results, should shinori be scum. and it takes much much longer for them to be found out if you play the fake right.

Paper's #370 covers this nicely.

the first part i slightly concede, but if you don't throw people under pressure for doing antitown/scummy stuff, then if they are scum, they just fly under the radar.

Sure, but the pressure's been done and had and you haven't really talked about anyone else. There's a difference between pressuring a guy and tunnelling someone.

The blanket statement was made in the hope that you might read your own ISO to reevaluate stuff, but I was referring to eclipse's OTT push on Bizz and FYPOV PB's massclaim idea, which you think is a bad suggestion as well but you haven't voted him for it even though you know he knows better whereas Refa doesn't necessarily.

Extra stuff from the ISO reread:

You said something about catching on to something in #319, what was that?

In #243 you are all like "Meta gaming Refa bad" but then you attack Bizz because she usually spam posts. You even try to defend yourself saying "it's my playstyle" after I voted you.

combined with a set of promised reads (which he eventually delivered), then yes, I did see scum intent in it.

Can you address this:

It reads more like curiosity on our choice of actions, and tbf "lynching town is worse than no lynch" looks true to someone inexperienced with the game

Even if you say you just interpreted it differently, you attacked Paper and Boron for dismissing it when I feel what I have quoted here is a perfectly reasonable thought process.

I don't even want him lynched right now.

So you say, but you're still trying to get people to distrust him while keeping yourself clear of the blame by saying "oh I think he's fine" and claiming what you're doing is only meant to promote discussion. You did more than "I don't want to and here's why", you've been all:

Hey guys I don't want to massclaim because Shinori isn't trustworthy right now and tbh I don't think he's very trustworthy; I mean, I don't want to lynch him but he just isn't very trustworthy and like all my scumreads trust him and that matters and just to be clear I don't find him scummy but maybe we shouldn't trust him and here's a memo saying that we shouldn't trust him but I definitely don't want him dead

@WoMC: is that a serious claim?

[Percivalé]

@Euklyd it wasn't a threat, it was a promise. What Eclipse did was very humiliating and distressed me very much and used up a lot of my energy and my mental health (+ my friendships here) is more important than a game

[scorri]

kirsche: it's not just that it's an easy vote, it's that Refa made the vote without really explaining why he thought Weapons was bad or anything. Just said "Weapons' posts feel off to me" or something along those lines and voted.

[Elieson]

Up to page 18 and I have several things to reply to, but quickly:

Votes should definately consolidate soon. I'm willing to buy Shinori's argument for the time being (being as I know how well a Sensor can destroy a game, having accidentally put one in Toonami myself).

Scumread on Shinori for his play, and very mild scumread on eclipse for one comment that she made. Scumread on Viata for her strikethrough on "people who ask me to explain my vibes are scummy" because she's said (i'll post a quote) that even her vibes are giving her mixed reads, which screams [opposite of clarity here]. Plus, her and Weapons' little back'n'forth seemed really weird.

Speaking of Weapons, his constant posting of approximately nothing screams scum to me, so I'm going with that. I admit I haven't been around to post too much, but considering the amount of threadspam that Manix can produce with realistic 50%+ content guarenteed, and the eclipse/viata debate breaking the 4th wall of emotional stability as a whole, I know he can produce something worth discussing, and specifically, isn't.

Refa is rounding out the near-top (or top) of my scumspects, due to his early shenanigans of "HAI GIYZ LETZ NOLUNCH", and some comments that he made that seem so forced that I can't see town going out of their way to post (also building in a post for the immediate future (see, within the next 10 or so minutes).

Also also, for considering Shinori's role situation, I suspect him as town, but something doesn't seem quite right (that's one, the claim timing, and two, the potential of a stronk fucking with approximately everything) I'd join a popcorn claim tho, but we'd be setting up our theoretical protective roles/investigative roles right out in the open, and if Shinori is fucking with us (as he's convinced me before CURSE YOU SHINORI!) then well...welp? So I guess I'm against a D1 massclaim.

[spoiler=Holy fuck]5 new replies while building this little blurb here geez

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

TBH I am waiting for people to die because I do not want to spend too much time trying to analyze posts in this game. Basically I have no good scum reads and do not want to force any.

[Elieson]

Also I think I'm maintaining my vote on Refa because of his this quote:

16/1 or 15/2 seems awfully low...

as well as his ridiculously impressive stance on Weapons being scum for ????

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

tl;dr too much text

[Percivalé]

Scumread on Viata for her strikethrough on "people who ask me to explain my vibes are scummy" because she's said (i'll post a quote) that even her vibes are giving her mixed reads, which screams [opposite of clarity here].

it was a joke lmao

[Percivalé]

As in I don't actually think that way, I was picking on Boron.

[Elieson]

it was a joke lmao

I can understand:

from my pov anyone who asks me to "explain my vibes" is scum

being a joke, but

Is it because I'm sometimes not really clear with what I think is scummy and what isn't? Because I understand that and I can make a convenient list really quick.

• Atm I don't think what Weapons is doing is scummy
• I think that Wallcrab's reaction to Euklyd and also my concerns (what I first read as 'backpedaling') is scummy, after rereading twice
• I still get legitimate scumvibes from Manix
• I get 'vibes' from Eclipse and Paperblade that could go either way
• I don't think Shinori is necessarily scummy, but his word choice wrt his Weapons vote pings me a little, and his posting style reads as slightly lackluster which doesn't mean much this early, yet
• I think that Boron is a little scummy after considering what Weapons said about her
• I don't think that Grassbridger is scummy (but I do have a few questions for him later)

If that's not what you meant, I think I still have a general idea that it's mostly a clarity issue, but if it is again I would like to remind you that I appreciate questions if you are confused about something that I have said.

is the bolded a joke? I don't really take it as one

FTR This gives me bad vibes, and I mean that in the most serious of ways.

also, is the underlined still current?