Inception Mafia

[Refa]

@refa: i wasn't necessarily saying that toward your content itself, just toward the point that you made @grass

i'll delve into this again later when i'm actually around (read as: i'm going out, right now)

also i claim not usurper

ok, fair enough. i guess i'll wait till whenever you make a case on me so that i can convince my fellow mafia that i'm also mafia.

prims told me he thought I was town before I went to sleep though. He was just frustrated with my play iirc.

also "I did the thing but other guys did the thing too so I'm not scummy for it" is a scummy defense to me fwiw

oh he did? i'll need to reread his ISO then. the grassbridger thing still stands though (who i find scummier than you anyways so IDGAF really).

also you can claim it's scummy but it's like you're the only one who had a definite read on kirsche. noone else in the entire game did. it just feels like you're singling me out for something that pretty much every other player in the game has done, and i'm pretty sure they're not all scum. well, undercover cops. most of them are mafia.

[j00]

I think it was like, I should read more into j00's case on me but something about the whole "I want to lynch Levity but I agree that Kirsche is bad" felt really weird to me I guess?? A lot of it is more gut feeling which is why I'm voting Kirsche and not j00 right now. Also meta works differently in my head and has a different definition so idk, I kinda want to just drop it.

this was about my post on you this phase, but you stated a suspicion on me even before I posted, meaning there must've been something I've posted D1 you didn't like

Also Kirsche is unmemorable to me in a scummy way and something about what he said before the day ended pinged me a lot. He criticized everyone for wanting to lynch Prims just because he was doing a lot more than the other wagon candidates at the time, and it felt like a really weird point to make, especially since I think the Prims wagon had lost a lot of momentum by then? and it felt like needless padding.

also feels kinda fake idk. I'm never a fan of stuff like this

your suspicion on kirsche is also kinda vague and waffly, considering you disliked him enough to vote him. adding stuff like "idk" behind your statements makes them sound uncommitted

like i mentioned earlier, i don't like when people vote and state suspicions first and explaining them later (outside rvs), because it makes the votes and reads very flexible and you can drop them if they don't gain much of a response/momentum. the kirsche vote feels like this, you voted, posted a vague read, and then switched. the initial suspicions on me is kinda similar, while i don't wan't you to spend effort building a case trying to lynch me, the stuff on me you posted later can't have been the same as you suspicions earlier since they were based on my posts this phase

Although I feel like whatever I'm asking is most likely worthless/wasted time bu I've got plenty more time to talk about other things.

Also that eury lynch was stupid. But i guess in that light so was the objection and the prims lynch.

However both of them dying confuses me and I'm curious about something which is all sorts of silly.

i get that you're waiting for a mod response, but you can still post reads that's not based on the question. the lynch comment is also stupid, yes, of course town lynches are stupid in hindsight, why do you feel the need to state that?

shinori's been doing nada since early D1, his longest post is a defense on refa voting him and things have changed since he last posted his reads. if you're saying all the wagons yesterday were dumb, at least do a wagon analysis or something

[Percivalé]

atm kirsche isn't really around so voting him is kinda useless whereas refa is actually here and responding to things

[Percivalé]

I do still think he's scummy though. But I also think Refa is scummy, and active.

I don't really know what much to say when people vote me for things I often do because some stuff I do a lot is objectively scummy and I guess there's no way you could know that anyway so ehh.

[Percivalé]

huh.

j00 do you think shinori is scum? you prod him and you sound like you think he's scummy for doing nothing but you kinda leave it at a halfhearted "hey shinori do more things"

[j00]

i'm not voting him because i find you more scummy, admitting to being "objectively scummy" isn't helping either, because even if that's just how you play, it doesn't make you townier

[Percivalé]

I don't really know what to say to you then? /:

[j00]

and yeah, shinori should do more things, he voted objection yesterday and said he'd explain why he didn't like him later, as well as promising to write a post while playing some other game, and neither happened

[j00]

but if you know you're "objectively scummy", why not try to play differently? prims also said he thought you were town at the end based on meta, but that you were objectively scummy, and i don't like playing based on meta because i'm not very familiar with most of it

it's not like i can drop a read on you just because you say all the stuff i find scummy is how you usually play, you can still play like this and be scum then

[Percivalé]

I don't really know how to play differently. You don't have to drop your read on me because of meta reasons or anything but it's like Prims said, if I were playing like I do as scum my wagon would have gotten way more momentum than it did probably.

Don't really know why I care though since you're the only vote on me and that's not likely to change & I think you're kinda scummy (though I haven't voted you yet because I'm still kinda unsure, especially with the whole "I can't use meta so I go for objectively scummy people" argument which comes off as town to me but I've seen scum use the excuse before so idk). Refa's response to me also didn't really change my opinion much.

[Percivalé]

going to bed, might not be around much tomorrow because of more School Things so just a fair warning

[Kay]

Bleh, all my scumreads died and weren't scum.

I feel like Levity is leaning on stuff Prims said in a weird way. Like, I can't quite tell whether he's agreeing with Prims being suspicious of me, or if he's just bringing it up.

J00, do you have thoughts on people besides Levity?

Rein, what's your current opinion on Manix and Poly, your ISO is a lot of waffles.

Refa's last post is pretty bad though imo. The "other people are scummy too" thing isn't great, and it's generally... something about his passive-aggressive defensiveness is pinging me. Grass is kinda bad for this too.

Looking back Shinori's argument about Manix really early on looks way too touchy imo. And Shinori hasn't done much that was useful either.

I'm suspicious of Poly but may as well just see if he can prove his role.

##Vote: Shinori

[Refa]

atm kirsche isn't really around so voting him is kinda useless whereas refa is actually here and responding to things

actually, something about Refa is bugging me now and it's been that way since his response to my Kirsche suspicion. Can't really say a lot in terms of associative flips since neither of them have flipped, but it felt kinda idk. "oh you might be right, I agree with you but it's hard reading inactive scum" sounds kinda waffly

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

I'm not seeing how our reasoning differs besides you being sure that kirsche is scum (...how?), yet you voted me for it. I don't like how your actions and your words have a logical disconnect. Basically, you stick to your guns most of the time with your vote which implies some reasonable level of confidence, yet you're always talking about how uncertain you are with your reads and etc. Generally you do the latter as town as well, however I remember you vote swapping a lot more in past town games.

Refa's last post is pretty bad though imo. The "other people are scummy too" thing isn't great, and it's generally... something about his passive-aggressive defensiveness is pinging me. Grass is kinda bad for this too.

Sorry about that. I try to make a conscientious effort to not be passive aggressive as any alignment since it just makes the game more painful to play for everyone.

Don't really agree with the other point though, but I've already replied to that.

[Grace]

brain is too dead to make a coherent post

you'll have to wait until tomorrow

sorry not sorry

[Grassbridger]

[spoiler=Refa quote]

@Grassbridger

(1) Inactivity isn't scummy, lurking is. OK, actually looking back kirsche did say he'd be hella busy until Wednesday pre-game, so I'm not too bothered by him in particular (but he should really post more whenever he gets the chance), but it's a bit silly to write off every other lurker. Really it's that sort of laissez faire attitude that just lets scum lurk without ever getting questioned ever.

@Grassbridger's reply to Furet

(2) Now that I think about it, several of your scumreads are people trying to look like more contribution than they actually are, which is actually rather weak. Scum benefit from posting less, not more.

(3) Actually, you haven't even read me at all, have you? Why not?

(4) Also I agree with Furet's point regarding your attitude towards policy lynching Prims for being a jerk. It just...doesn't work like that.

Basically my thoughts on Grassbridger are as follows. His defense WRT to my points on his Objection vote is good, I agree with it. (5) However, his scumhunting has just been lazy this phase despite a lot of posts. Even if you (god forbid) agree with whatever he has to say on me, his other scumreads are based off of...Page 14 and before (actually he missed some stuff around Page 14 as well) and are antiquated at best. (6) Him sticking to them just feels like lazy scumhunting and I don't get why he's never tried to expand on those reads at all considering (7) Shinori at least posted more content since then.

@Strege

(8) Not really your fault Objection was a twat. Why does he always fakeclaim vig? :\ Next time he claims vig before any shots, I'm turbolynching him.

1.People got on your case for lurking and then you started posting more. You're right, we shouldn't just let lurkers lurk!

2. What Manix said.

3. What do you mean, "haven't read" you? I've read the thread; I don't think you mean your posts... Do you mean my scum/town read on you? But I've put a vote down and explained why I think you're scummy, even if I haven't said "I FIND HIM SCUMMY" it's pretty obvious, so what are you talking about?

4. oh ffs I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUMMY and that scumminess involved being a jerk.

5. What exactly do you regard as "lazy scumhunting"?? My interactions with you and Parrhesia have been based on, like, the post above... and how many active, detailed interactions do you expect me to have? You've basically only said things about me this phase, I could just as easily call that lazy.

6. "I thought this person was scummy and they've done nothing so I still think they're scummy"... that's not lazy, that's logical. It's not my fault that my scumreads are inactive.

7. Shinori has not posted more content since the start of D2. He's had two non-content posts.

8. Not related to me, but.. I don't think he was faking. His role flipped "Janitor", and since he didn't have a factional kill, what else was the jankill but a vig shot?

Usurper is a thing and they're Mafia (not scum).

Euklyd, some questions:

1. Are you saying you're Mafia with a wincon that's more complicated than eliminating the undercover cops?

2. Are you saying that your role PM modconfirms Usurper to you as Mafia (not scum)?

I'm asking because it's strange for different people with the same alignment to have different wincons. Usurper sounds more like ITP to me, although flavor-wise I see why it'd be Mafia.

I'd already refuted everything Grassbridger said

lolnope

Refa's last post is pretty bad though imo. The "other people are scummy too" thing isn't great, and it's generally... something about his passive-aggressive defensiveness is pinging me. Grass is kinda bad for this too.

I'm sorry, I don't try for passive-aggressive. Actually, I was going for more "aggressive-aggressive." (See: number of instances of uses of "BS"/"bullshit"/"crap".) Can you point out instances of this passive aggression that bothers you, or do you actually just mean aggression?

[Shinori]

I think I spent pretty much all of yesterday chasing something that most likely wasn't there.

I thought my role had possibly landed scum but MOST LIKELY it was just nothing so I wasted time.

So now I have to get caught up.

[Paperblade]

Votals

(3) Refa: Grass, Manix, Levity

(2) Grass: Refa, Furet

(2) Shinori: Rein, Kay

(1) Poly: SB

(1) Levity: j00

(6) Voteless Town: Euklyd, kirsche, Poly, scorri, Shinori, Strege

46 hours left

Edited January 22, 2014 by Paperblade

[charlie_]

Grass, can you calm down a bit? You sound really angry in your last few posts. Most of your suspicions feel kind of like extensions of OMGUSes too, with Shinori/Furet just there as an afterthought. Not really sure how to read you through the emotion though.

##Unvote

Poly's claim isn't coming from scum. I think Strege could be the Usurper, honestly, considering he shot Objection and his shot had no visible side effects (like Objection's claimed one.)

I think Via's switch to Refa feels kind of opportunistic to me, considering it came right after Manix's vote and he suddenly dropped j00 for no real reason considering it must have been formed from some earlier posts he never said anything about. Your Refa vote seems kind of based around just one waffly scumread (and your kirsche vote which you were super certain of was pretty much founded on one point too) so I'm not really happy with that. Feels kinda like your certainty that Prims was scum which had pretty bad basis imo and then when he flipped town you started immediately advocating his reads and trying to guess why the mafia killed him and fit it to work with your case. It seems too sudden of a change to sit comfortably with me (especially when you had no comments on Refa/Kay yesterday, iirc.) You've seemingly dropped your Rein case too, without saying a thing about it.

@Levity
-Agree with what you're saying about kirsche, but it's like...ughhhh. Inactive scum are a pain because it's hard to pressure them and voting them just stagnates the phase (unless you go for a quick hammer, I guess) and ughhhh... I'll vote him if noone looks worse by the end of the phase.

This sounds like you're weirdly certain that kirsche is scum, imo. Would like other thoughts on this to check that I'm not looking too much into it though.

##Vote: Via

[Percivalé]

I don't like to park on votes that are going nowhere. Fight me, SB.

But really. It uses up my energy to defend myself so if the same two people continue to push me I'm just not going to respond to them much anymore because if I try to keep defending myself I'm not gonna scumhunt verywell and I haven't been scumhunting well as is.

[j00]

man, i think this is shinori's six'th "i'll post later" post. he made his biggest contribution in the beginning of the game, and it's not like his content was very remarkable then either. pretty blatant active lurker

grassbridger have you got reads on people who aren't attacking you? you've been complaining a lot about ate this game but most of your own posts are angry defenses. the quote walls are tiring to read since they contain increasingly nitpicky back and forth's between you and people who voted you, and even if they're not quite omgus'es they're reads based on people's reads on you, it's awfully defensive

gonna read up on refa who also loves walls of text, but at this point i'd support a shinori lynch too

[Percivalé]

And idk about Rein anymore

Generally I've been going mostly off vibes too because shrug

[Percivalé]

J00 are you gonna vote shinori or what. I think you continuing to go "man look at these scummy things shinori is doing" and prodding him but continuing to not vote him is scummy as fuck and kinda hypocritical (in the context of the game, not personally).

[j00]

i prefer voting whomever i find scummiest, and it's still you, even if that case isn't going anywhere it's not lessening my scumread on you since all of your scumhunting has been kinda vague and vibey

[Percivalé]

Not much I can do about that, then.

My activity might waver from here. I'll be back whenever.

[Zkirsche]

Ok so now that my exams are over I'm partying with my housemates. So I'll get to ISOs and shit tomorrow because I NEED ALCOHOL. I'll respond at stuff aimed at me while we prepare (I say as I start my bottle of jack daniels :3)

@j00: Sheeping isn't scummy and neither is not posting much from life stuff.

@Refa: My Scorri read was complete bullshit and made on a misunderstanding. I was thinking of someone else, who I'm sure I'll find after I ISO everyone in the game. Expect a wall tomorrow btw guys, I know how much you like it.

@Bizz: The prims wagon might've lost it's momentum but it was definitely still a thing and he was easily the towniest person alive. Defending someone who's one of the three lynch candidates isn't padding. You'll have to take my word that it's not fake though.

Now I'm off to get drunk #studentlife