Dot.hack//The World:R1 Mafia(Game thread)

[Paperblade]

Baldrick, please take a step back from the thread until you've cooled off

[Eurykins]

RAPIER IS LITERALLY CONFIRMED TOWN JESUS

This is assuming that BBM was 100% honest with his role. What prevents him from having just been a simple role stealer/vanillizer that just acts during the day phase?

Secondly, even if he WAS being honest, why not wait to coordinate with Kirsche/await Kirsche's reactions? Seems like careless gameplay here.

[Paperblade]

because there's a flipped godfather and miller

and Rapier is the only alignment cop

[Rapier]

@Rapier; You want me to answer you immediately, but are content with not responding to me for several days. Who's a hypocrite?

You were the first to call me and vote me for it, so the least I expect is a little more coherence. Otherwise you could as well vote yourself for 'not willing to discuss/help with the discussion'.

Kind of tired to deal with whining right now, so I'll skip to Eury instead and her reasons to vote Randa.

> Holy shit, Blitz is alive? YEAH, he kinda confirmed it prior to the "lynch hammer" actually falling on his head in the prior day phase. Thus, he survived. No reason NOT to know this.

> A Mason leader just died. Why are you asking Kirsche IF THERE ARE MORE MASON LURKING? (This is just blatant information fishing that you really shouldn't do, even as you backpedal with "But don't disclose their name" as though to keep your request from seeming truly terrible.)

> "Because the role PM confuses me and I want clarification": Of what, exactly? Read the role PM yourself; you can also see for yourself that Kirsche (assuming he's the Lady Subaru person) didn't have open lines to the Mason crew, so why ask him when he wasn't directly involved with them? (And it seems Proto himself chose to aim masonry at someone other than Kirsche, so clearly there wasn't a great deal of trust between the two happening.)

> Why more flavor-speccing? Really doesn't help anything.

> Not paying attention to Terrador's flip, as town!Randa, makes no sense at all. Some TOWNIE was shot prior to his wagon hitting vote cap, and you think/remember little of it? Sounds pretty careless to me; more likely scum to forget than town imo (same with forgetting "holy shit D1 NO LYNCH").

Bolded are reasons for finding Randa scummy that could very well be attributed to his lack of attention or thought in general. They are not scum tells, because a town player could as well be inattentive and of confused thought. Also, I don't think scum!Randa would need to ask questions in thread when he'd be able to ask his scumbuddies, which is a much more subtle and effective way of getting his answers cleared.

About the flavor-speccing and mason speccing, I agree. I don't see the point why one would do this, so yes, Randa should answer (if he hasn't already, which he probably did and I skipped like a doofus. Go me).

Her other reads are:

Bluedoom's made some stupid plays and is continuing to minorly ping me in a scummy manner.

Via's outright playing poorly and is mindlessly barking up my tree with her empty case(s) on me (while hyper tunneling as well). Scummy gameplay.

Randa's case has not changed in my eyes, and is likewise scummy.

BBM's gameplay reads as somewhat townie effort (to pull a read on a questionable slot) but at the same time was reckless in not waiting for a response from Kirsche. Mixed feelings (especially after what claim/role was nullified as a result).

Bluedoom making stupid plays is not a scumtell. Unless you have another reason which you haven't specified here, it is not a very good one.

So isn't playing poorly. I can see how tunneling can be bad, but not all scum players tunnel. The tunneling itself is not an indicative of scumminess.

BBM has an obvious town role right now, and I already addressed about Randa, so let's omit that part.

So, Eury's game seems very shallow. Her reads aren't conclusive enough for scumminess and some of her observations seem easy ("he's being stupid and I have a bad feeling, so scum; he's tunneling me and playing poorly, therefore scum"). This is not enough to classify her as scum, but it is enough to keep an eye open.

[Eurykins]

Fair enough on the first point.

Second point, though, is a null tell imo. Alignment cops are not strictly (I've seen rare games in which they've landed on non-town roles, so I may be biased on my thought process) town-sided.

However, Rapier's really not a concern for me currently (it was moreso BBM's actions taken that I more question, less so about Rapier), so we'll leave it at that.

[Eurykins]

Oops, was cut apparently, gg Rapier.

Above post was @PB.

[Rapier]

This is assuming that BBM was 100% honest with his role. What prevents him from having just been a simple role stealer/vanillizer that just acts during the day phase?

Secondly, even if he WAS being honest, why not wait to coordinate with Kirsche/await Kirsche's reactions? Seems like careless gameplay here.

Wasn't BBM's role comproved when he vigged Blitz?

[Rapier]

oh wait nevermind

i derped

[Eurykins]

Bolded are reasons for finding Randa scummy that could very well be attributed to his lack of attention or thought in general. They are not scum tells, because a town player could as well be inattentive and of confused thought. Also, I don't think scum!Randa would need to ask questions in thread when he'd be able to ask his scumbuddies, which is a much more subtle and effective way of getting his answers cleared.

About the flavor-speccing and mason speccing, I agree. I don't see the point why one would do this, so yes, Randa should answer (if he hasn't already, which he probably did and I skipped like a doofus. Go me).

Her other reads are:

Bluedoom making stupid plays is not a scumtell. Unless you have another reason which you haven't specified here, it is not a very good one.

So isn't playing poorly. I can see how tunneling can be bad, but not all scum players tunnel. The tunneling itself is not an indicative of scumminess.

BBM has an obvious town role right now, and I already addressed about Randa, so let's omit that part.

So, Eury's game seems very shallow. Her reads aren't conclusive enough for scumminess and some of her observations seem easy ("he's being stupid and I have a bad feeling, so scum; he's tunneling me and playing poorly, therefore scum"). This is not enough to classify her as scum, but it is enough to keep an eye open.

Bolded #1: Town, above any other alignment, should be the most aware/concerned about how a day starts, goes, and ends. Therefore, it is far easier for scum!Randa to ignore/not care about the results of said lynch (so long as it doesn't land on himself or someone who'd actually die on his scum team), and/or to pretend to forget about it. Town!Randa has no reason to forget how things occurred at all (and I believe townie players would be more interested in noting down/re-reading how D1 ended come D2 start), so this is why I find his gameplay highly questionable and suspicious.

Secondly, why ask scum buddies and act knowledgeable, when you can spam the thread and seem overeager to be active with an incoming new day phase? The latter procures the appearance of some activity, while constantly throwing out (albeit rather stupid ones) questions to whoever else is around is also another common tactic that scum can and will easily utilize.

Reads: Read. My. Entire. ISO. I've had Bluedoom on my priority since D1, and I've elaborated and added multiple points to my case. I don't care to type, link, or otherwise repeat myself needlessly.

Via's tunneling in itself is a null tell, sure. But the way she's executing it is far from what I'd consider a full, thorough, townie case on someone. There are far too many holes in her points, the lack of points in itself = shallow cases, and the fact that she's failed to conjure up her case as to why I'm her top priority (and is openly stalling further) is why I'm finding scum intent within her gameplay.

[Eurykins]

Side note: If there's also no secondary/contradictory notion of a Vig claim within the game, it's also possible that BBM may be the source of the Day kill that has already occurred, if what he's claiming is true (Hitting scum = they die; hitting town = they get vanilized).

But if that's the case, then it implies that BBM is an ITP (based on the announcement that was sent out at the time of Blitz's death).

[Refa]

Not gameplay relevant also dead

Is it really that hard to read Via's sig?

Not gameplay relevant also dead

[Paperblade]

can we lynch eury

[Eurykins]

Come to think about it, it does sort of make sense for an ITP to have that role- it clears out any townsided PR's (while he can easily claim it has a built-in 'Cop' because he can tell what sort of person he hits due to the nature of his action), while also removing scum. Hmmm, interesting.

Anyways, I'm done minorly spam-posting the thread. Will be back later.

[Eurykins]

PEDIT: Editing those things out actually kinda slipped my mind due to minor irritations prior + being distracted by a phone call. No actual offense meant to Via, (but knowing IRL gender and whatnot kinda puts my typing in auto-follow).

[Paperblade]

do you really think that BBM has a HIDDEN SK DAYVIG in addition to a fakeclaim VANILLA-IZER COP DAYVIG

[Paperblade]

I mean, really, all you're doing right now is really bad rolespec. Is that really all you've got after 70+ pages?

[Eurykins]

I'm saying it's a possibility. For one, he chose to act on his own, even after taking the time to type to Kirsche. What was the rush? Rapier wasn't about to be hammered, and we still had time in the day phase? Why not coordinate/ask and listen to what the town leader had to say?

Secondly, if it just does the effects (vanilize if it hits town/kills if it hits scum) then there's no need to BE a cop when it basically spells it out to you. That's what I'm saying. (But of course, claiming Vanilizer cop/day vig does come off better/more town-sounding than if it only neutralized/killed people. So that, along with how he chose to act, is why I'm doubting BBM's slot.)

Fakeclaim exists, and people will do just about anything to make their role sound/act as townie as possible to stay under people's radars. It's better to keep an open mind and consider any and all options than to simply go along with things (I'm sure Terrador and Vhaltz will agree with that statement, after accepting clears that were not clears in all in the last OC game).

[Eurykins]

Goddamnit Ninja's.

I mean, really, all you're doing right now is really bad rolespec. Is that really all you've got after 70+ pages?

I was posting my thoughts of what I saw, while busying myself with ISO's later.

Secondly, pray tell, how is it "poor rolespec" when the thoughts I posted fully explain what could've possibly happened in D2? Why is his role claim so believable to be town-sided, especially compared to the wonky town-sided roles that have already been claimed (and flipped) within the game so far? What is considered "bad rolespec", when it seems that the possibilities seem pretty crazy in this game?

Thirdly, I hope you realize that about a quarter to probably almost half of the game in terms of pages posted = shitty spam posts. People (Like Refa and Randa) have almost needlessly spammed the thread with things that "aren't really content but moreso filler/joke posts", which kinda makes things even moreso tiring to read. So despite the LENGTH of the game in terms of quantity of pages, it doesn't mean that there's quality within it to be had. Just saying.

[Shinori]

I'm home. YAY.

[charlie_]

Also how many people townread Refa aside fron me? since I get the impression scum didn't know he would go quite like that/that fast which would affect his interactions with other people/other scum/ etc

Don't worry, my reads sucked too. I'm not actually sure when the last time I read Refa correctly was.

Eury's recent stuff looks really OMGUSy wrt Via and it feels like she's relying on conspiracy theories to find BBM scummy. Pretty sure the vanillaise would've just been hidden by scum after thinking about it and the ITP press feels really desperate. There's no reason for BBM to be so attention seeking as SK by doing something like that and if he was an ITP with a dayvig I would've expected it to at least be a dayvig that worked.

Other then that I feel like my reads suck and I need to reread like... the entire thread and that sort of terrifies me. So that's probably not happening tonight.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I kind of wish eclipse didn't sub in for Hugh cause then we could all pile on him and ship it in for this phase. Even now, I might even be for that, but I'd like eclipse's iso to be in the OP first.

I thought Eury had a point with Randa being oblivious at the start of D2, but idk, in context it looks more believable. But now that I think about it more, it is very weird that he seemed to not know Blitz was unlynchable when it was discussed right there at the top of the page and had the whole night phase to try to figure out what was going on. Also his iso looks fluffy and his interactions with Blitz and Refa aren't that favorable, but those are minor points that need to be fleshed out.

At this point, I'm voting for Randa.

As for Eury, I'm agreeing that her attack on Via is overreactionary, in a word, but overall I think it's good that at least she's shown up and defended herself. Also I just don't find her scumtells very inspired and need to adjust for that.

[Green Poet]

I think I'm caught up on everything now, and will send a PM to unvote correctly.

I don't think scum!BBM would risk faking his role to clear Rapier since a flip/investigation of either of them would result in the lynch of the other. And with all the day roles seen so far, and Rapier being alignment cop, I think it's significantly more likely BBM and Rapier are just both town.

I'll ISO Eury and go over Via's case on her soon. I had a null read on Eury previously and what stuck out to me most was a lack of any really big wallposts, and not much more than that.

Hugh/eclipse is worth a look as well. In my last post I talked about how Blitz's use of "in thread" might indicate him being scumbuddies with Hugh but it's a slight thing, meh.

eclipse's ISO isn't very telling but she did have a post expressing how it's likely that one between SB and Refa are scum. She makes cases on both and ends up voting SB, then unvotes SB later. Possibly influenced by being informed scum, possibly just coincidence.

Randa's recent posts don't say very much about the game... it's hard to form a read when his last scumread was Terrador.

I have no solid scumreads anymore since Rapier is basically confirmed town and Poly seems more likely to be town due to Blitz interactions... sigh.

Not gameplay relevant also dead

Is it really that hard to read Via's sig?

Not gameplay relevant also dead

Just a general fyi, I have sig display disabled. I think I have been referring to Via appropriately though.

[Prims]

not playing

you're missing out on the very important link in my signature

not playing

[BBM]

My role is that if my target is scum they die, and if they're town they get vanillized (1x), to clear up any confusions. I claimed in the way I did because I thought it would be funnier and to draw a kill away from roles that weren't used up. Also, I did message kirsche last night before I went to sleep >_>

but I had like 5 minutes in the morning before I had to leave, and I didn't realize that the code in kirsche's post was towards me. I thought it was towards SB so I didn't bother trying to decode it. It seemed to me that the entire day phase was stagnating into "vote Rapier" when I thought he was obvtown and couldn't convince other people. I targeted Rapier because it was the only way I could think of to get people to not vote him, and because I thought that even if he was town, there was someone else with an alternate night role that was the same as his. The reason I didn't wait and do it in the evening after coming back is because I was worried that there would then be not enough time for town to find a new person to vote. It was pretty rash though I admit.

you guys should claim to me if you have messages left, along with the passphrase/keys to kirsche's encryption site.

The whole lightkeeper thing means that we absolutely have to decide on a lynch with at least 12 hours left, because then everybody will have time to vote in their PM. If we leave it down to trying to coordinate a turbolynch over PM, some scum is going to not vote and then we'll no lynch.

Also I see that Refa suicided on kirsche but where did he even scumslip?

[Prims]

not playing

also this means when my sig was "mafia sucks" there were people who weren't reading that every time i posted?? can't believe the sigblockers around here tbh.

not playing