I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[Eurykins]

*I'm not sure if/when I'm getting subbed out, but I just got done with yard work and patching up my hands (though I bled on my white keyboard/keys... Q_Q''). I'll need to check in with BBM to see if he would prefer me subbed out or not as a result of my earlier post/request (since my activity still may be pretty low over the next few days).

[Refa]

eclipse, question. Does Darros usually get mislynched, because I thought the whole D1 Doctor thing was a joke. If that's the case, I'll need to reevaluate my read on him accordingly. I'm confused, the last thing I wrote about Poly was a gut town read earlier on? Honestly I don't get why you think we're disagreeing with each other, because your posts seem reasonable enough FMPOV (nothing that I take issue with) and you're like the only player who's expressed valid suspicions on bearclaw.

[Junk]

okay I feel as if phoenix01's reads reek of scum. He says that FFM's vote on Elieson is suspicous just because Elieson has been active? Not saying that elieson is scum bit yeah..

Curious to see why you think darros sounds townish? You do not really give any examples whatsoever. I would assume you have a nullread instead.

Feels like he is giving reads because he would get attention if he did not.You seem to have more beef with FFM then bearclaw based on your reads. Also cannot see how refa has been "iffy". Cannot really understand why you think refa would be iffy based on a joke post. You think he is leaning scum,null,or town? Also states how he believes GP's claim but then said in an earlier post let us investigate GP tonight. Also feels like that everyone who is voting for FFM gets a free pass. Poly"nothing much to say", Dallas "seems townish".

## vote phoenix01

The biggest problem with your list is that it feels way to vague and it feels you are doing it out of obligation

About FFM I understand your reasoning for FFM being scum but just how obvious he is making it feels just ridiculous. Like really obvious. It just feels way to easy to tear through. I will keep on eye him though, see if his posting style changes later.

[eclipse]

eclipse, question. Does Darros usually get mislynched, because I thought the whole D1 Doctor thing was a joke. If that's the case, I'll need to reevaluate my read on him accordingly. I'm confused, the last thing I wrote about Poly was a gut town read earlier on? Honestly I don't get why you think we're disagreeing with each other, because your posts seem reasonable enough FMPOV (nothing that I take issue with) and you're like the only player who's expressed valid suspicions on bearclaw.

It's not a joke. The reference for the D1 doctor lynch is FE4 Mafia (it's WAY back in the queue).

I see that thing you wrote about Poly earlier, and have come to two conclusions:

- Poly is scummy for producing more content because others said to?

- Poly is scummy because of the stuff he produced?

They're two different reasons, and I can't figure out which one (if either) is the one you're trying to communicate.

[Da Bear]

[spoiler=rl]I'm sorry for not posting and stuff as much as I (and I'm sure you guys) would like. I'm still recovering from a concussion which is giving me a lot of headaches and makes it so that even when I'm on I'm not necessarily up to mafia. A good way to put how my brain is working right now would be to say I failed a test on my second best subject in school Thursday. I'm starting to feel better and do better so my brain should be ready for more in-depth analysis soon as opposed to pointing out what looks bad at first glance.

@FFM and Eclipse: I'm calling Poly out on active lurking. I haven't been actively posting (headaches make this rough) so I'm not guilty of what I'm accusing Poly of doing.

Also FFM that vote is really weak if you're just voting me for hypocrisy.

[eclipse]

bearclaw. . .we aren't you, and can't tell the difference between posting here and there and RL stuff, just as what I posted yesterday night could be called filler despite the fact that this game would be way more unpleasant had I tried play. Get well soon, and try to keep up (if you can't, I think a concussion is a pretty good reason to call for a sub).

[Da Bear]

Poly's list post:

-Frosty's votes so far have been relatively bad. Aside from RVS, they consist of a retaliatory vote on Shinori and two prodvotes, on Elie & Kopf. As well, he hasn't really done much else in the way of finding scum; even when he was asked by both Iris & Shinori, he gave only one-line answers.

-After re-reading Iris, I don't think she's scum. I'm not getting much of a scum vibe from her, because nothing I've seen of her really stood out.

-Shinori & Darros both feel obvtown to me for varying reasons.

-Nothing's changed wrt GP in my books, don't want to lynch her.

-Phoenix needs to actually give reads instead of quipping and commentating on shit.

-Not seeing the suspicion on Elie. He's actually done a good job of analyzing things so far, and I feel like a lot of the suspicion is because he's called people out, maybe?

-Kopf is probably a good candidate to get vig'd.

-Euk's bugging me a bit; he doesn't seem to be getting many reads that he's acting on.

#1: reasons why FFM is scum.

#2, #3, #4, #6, #7: Null/town reads.

#5: Prod

#8: Scum vibe on Euk.

Most of those are filler and this post does not make me feel better about him.

[Refa]

Oh, I must have done a poor job conveying what I thought considering your conclusions. Personally, I'm null on Poly myself (I think bearclaw did bring up some good points WRT him discrediting his FFM vote, but I don't buy the notion that Poly's active lurking). FFM claimed Poly was scummy because despite Poly giving his opinions on other players, he had to be prodded to do so. I think that's a poor scumtell overall because it's sort of a damned if you, damned if you don't thing (if Poly gave his opinion, it was only because he was prodded and if he didn't, it's because he's lurk scum). I also don't see how all Poly has been doing is reiterating the same things over and over again, although admittedly I haven't been paying close attention to him so I could be wrong on that account.

Going to look into Darros' posts again, I suppose. I figure if he's scum, he'll be playing extra cautiously (due to his history of being lynched), and if he's town he...won't.

[Phoenix01]

okay I feel as if phoenix01's reads reek of scum. He says that FFM's vote on Elieson is suspicous just because Elieson has been active? Not saying that elieson is scum bit yeah..

Curious to see why you think darros sounds townish? You do not really give any examples whatsoever. I would assume you have a nullread instead.

Feels like he is giving reads because he would get attention if he did not.You seem to have more beef with FFM then bearclaw based on your reads. Also cannot see how refa has been "iffy". Cannot really understand why you think refa would be iffy based on a joke post. You think he is leaning scum,null,or town? Also states how he believes GP's claim but then said in an earlier post let us investigate GP tonight. Also feels like that everyone who is voting for FFM gets a free pass. Poly"nothing much to say", Dallas "seems townish".

## vote phoenix01

The biggest problem with your list is that it feels way to vague and it feels you are doing it out of obligation

About FFM I understand your reasoning for FFM being scum but just how obvious he is making it feels just ridiculous. Like really obvious. It just feels way to easy to tear through. I will keep on eye him though, see if his posting style changes later.

FFM's vote on Elie included "until he participates further". I took this to mean that FFM thought Elie was inactive, which I disagreed with because he was participating.

That's an interesting idea you have on Poly and Darros, but they're essentially null suspicions. I can see why you'd think that, but it's just a coincidence. Darros I think has been contributing and I'm not really suspicious of him other than the fact that he posts some stuff that isn't related to the game (#243,244, and parts of his content posts).

On Refa, "iffy" means "null but more likely scum but town".Don't really think joke posts are necessary and I still have beef with his Poly suspicions.

Regarding GP, emphasis on "earlier post", opinions change. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now.

[BBM]

VOTALS

Bearclaw (3) - Shinori, Phoenix, FFM
FFM (3) - Polydeuces, Eurykins, Darros

Phoenix (3) - Euklyd, Eclipse, Junko
Polydeuces (2) - Bearclaw, Iris

Elieson (1) - Green Poet
Euklyd (1) - Elieson

Darros (1) - Refa

Not Voting (1) - Kopfjager

With 15 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch at deadline and 8 votes to hammer. You have 18 hours and 40 minutes left. Phase ends at 5 PM EST on Sunday (10 PM GMT).

[Junk]

oops I said " I understand your reasoning on FFM"

that comment was directed at those people like dallas saying me thinking FFM did not seem scummy because of making it to obvious was bad logic or something like that. Sorry about that phoenix if you thought that was directed at you phoenix.

[Shinori]

Okay I'm here gonna read stuff.

[Shinori]

NO, WALLPOSTS; fuck, I thought Eurykins and Euklyd were the same person, and then I realized the former hasn't really existed

#sheepingthis

##Unvote

##Vote: Poly

But I actually noticed that Poly said he would "reread" my iso or something like that, and although he said that, he's seemed to ignore it. That's a scummy scumtell if you ask me.

Are you just sheeping that you want to lynch Poly or are you sheeping all of Bearclaw's reasons for voting Poly? Cause all you stated in this post was basically that you were sheeping someone and you thought poly was giving off a scum tell by saying he was going to reread your iso and didn't apparently.

GUYS, 24 HOURS LEFT, WHERE ARE YOU ALL

so i'm going to summarize my thoughts in a listpost, sorry if you hate listposts, ok

I found Elieson's vote switch off me a little weird, tbh, I'm leaning more towards him being scum trying to draw attention away from himself rather than honestly believing that I'm townish for my reactions... it just reads as suspicious to me. However, I do think that Eukyld isn't looking too hot.

Poly still looks bad for reasons stated.

I don't think Refa is towny town town, unlike other people in this thread. I know he's sorta been around and his activity for being so is atrocious. However, like I said earlier, I don't know his scum!meta well, nor do I believe that lack of activity is a tell.

I have town reads, but won't out them for obvious reasons. And a huge lot of you are null for not existing.

You then post this: The bolded part I feel is kind of important as you specifically only stated one reason. What other reasons do you not like Poly for? Like...it really seems like you have a lot more reasons to vote Elieson > Poly yet you choose to sit with the Poly vote, why?

So you find issues with Iris and Elieson's posts. . . but decide to prodvote bear? Why is he more important than people whom you think may be scum?

Unless you've picked up on PR crumbing, I don't see why not?

Are you talking about the last sentence at the end of this post? That's rather nitpicky by itself; is there anything else about Poly that makes you confident in your vote on him?

Would like to see more from Eury; the one non-RVS vote she's made isn't very recent, and felt rather opportunistic in the spirit of getting on the FFM wagon.

WRT bolded part: Because there is no reason really to state town reads. You can if you want but you don't need to. It can actually help scum decide on who to kill if they are aiming to kill Townie players.

@Bearclaw: I get it, you don't like Poly. Is there anyone else you don't like? What other scum reads do you have? What is your current lynch preferences?

Based off of current votals I'd prefer Poly > Phoenix > FFM > Bearclaw.

Reading over various things I saw something posted by Refa which reminded me that Bearclaw was hated and gut feeling made me shy away from lynching him now.

Kopf said he wasn't going to be around until late sunday but I can't help but notice that he hasn't done anything except for RVS vote FFM basically and then not move it whatsoever. And at this rate he won't be around until after this day phase ends. Kopf needs to do something. Straight up this slot should be vigged if he doesn't post until night phase.

Now reading over Phoenix who was someone I had virtually overlooked for the most part. Early on I had a slightly bad feeling about him but I had quickly forgot about him over all of the other stuff happening. His bearclaw vote is absolutely awful though. Especially since it really looks like he didn't like Iris's post or vote on Elie. There's also the fact that they also don't seem to like FFM but they completely ignored putting a vote on that slot ever. My only issue with Phoenix is that they really do seem like a newbie.

Now as to why I'd prefer Poly over any of the other candidates at the moment:

I can't help but notice that he's sat on his FFM vote all day after RVS ended. I don't quite like that. Personal opinion issue thing. In post #157 he actually slightly defends FFM by saying that he's a newbie after have just voting him in post #150. He then questions him a bit in his next post which is fine, however after that across his next 5 posts he doesn't say a single thing to or towards FFM except "Still not liking Frosty." in post #200. He doesn't say anything else up until #260 where he states "-Frosty's votes so far have been relatively bad. Aside from RVS, they consist of a retaliatory vote on Shinori and two prodvotes, on Elie & Kopf. As well, he hasn't really done much else in the way of finding scum; even when he was asked by both Iris & Shinori, he gave only one-line answers" which albeit are all good points but I really can't help but notice that he didn't state any of this leading up to this point. It was literally over 100 posts since his FFM vote and he didn't really comment on him much except for like one line of questions and saying that he didn't like him. Also up until his list post he doesn't really have reads on many other players at all.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Poly

My head really hurts at the moment. zzzzzzzzzz. Hopefully most of my post will be easily understandable.

[Green Poet]

ISO'd bearclaw and Darros. Got things that need doing, so this is likely all I'll have time for until tomorrow.

[spoiler=bearclaw]Early case on FFM seems well-founded. Points out his OMGUS and overreaction, but I don't see why he doesn't vote FFM. "That post['s logic] is so off I don't even think it's scummy" sounds to me like you're not willing to vote solely because of WIFOM? The FFM case was solid, and you haven't explained much as to why you think he's town/not worth voting.

bearclaw then votes Poly for tunneling FFM. He deconstructs Poly's listpost, and I think it's a good analysis; we're still waiting on Poly to deliver scumreads, other than his existing read on the ever-popular FFM.

Null leaning town. I'd like to know what bearclaw currently thinks of FFM.

[spoiler=Darros]Begins the game with lots of irrelevant posts, and two prodvotes :/

Votes FFM for "not contributing" and scumreading Elie, which was apparently bad because Elie voted him? Unlike the vote on Shinori, it was clearly not a reactionary vote, so I don't see what the problem is.

Mentions Elie a few more times, but only in reference to other players. What are your current thoughts on Elie himself, Darros?

Claims that FFM's avoiding answering questions (?) and thus strengthening his (Darros') scumread. Feels pretty tunnely to me, and I am seeing FFM answer things quite often. Meanwhile, he gives Eury and Wen's inactivity a passing mention? If you say you can't form an opinion about them until they post more, why don't you seem to care about whether or not they do post more?

Somewhat bothered by Darros' play so far.

Would like to hear more from Poly.

[Green Poet]

Looking over the votals now, I believe I'd actually unvoted Elie some time ago? In any case,

##Unvote

And. . . three votes on bear? Going to go over the cases of the people who've voted him when I can.

[Shinori]

I feel like Eury is typing up the second biggest post of her carrer.

[euklyd]

Euklyd's wall post was good. There's definitely some bias due to him agreeing with me on a lot of things, but even discounting that I feel about about it despite prior failed bussing attempts. Also, Euklyd is always town or something even in the game where he was mafia he was town so there.

I don't get how Elieson could vote Euklyd without even commenting on his wall post. Euklyd's prior content being lame I am totally on board with, but like how can you fail to comment on possibly the most important post from the person you're scumreading? Wait...Euklyd, explain how Elieson's vote on you is reasonable. Because I'm not seeing it, and it's weird as hell that you weren't bothered by this too.

Because I definitely had been active lurking back then while waiting for something I felt strongly about to crop up, and had very little content, and at that point I had no vote out despite having stated scumreads. I'm not super happy with my play this game.

Also I am generally very good at looking scummy (or thinking I do) D1, hence my whole "HAS ALWAYS CLAIMED ROLE D1" shtick.

Maybe I'm just feeling like I've been emulating my attitude from Inception too much this game, and I was definitely scum then

Not understanding the Bearclaw wagon, btw. It's like, what, he's been inactive? There's like a weak vote on him by Shinori (not anymore, though), and then two of my scumreads piled on later for reasons that are just as weak, or weaker. Would not be surprised if this was a scum (or two, but that seems unlikely) looking to ride an easy wagon.

Also we should think about consolidating soon, imo. I'm definitely not gonna be around at deadline, and only *might* be around in the morning.

We currently have three equal wagons at three votes each, and it'd probably be a good idea to let people in danger of being lynched claim abilities before we lynch :V

[Shinori]

What exactly was weak about my vote on Bear Euklyd?

[euklyd]

It's basically voting for lurkscum; looks more like it was a prodvote than anything else.

[eclipse]

Because I definitely had been active lurking back then while waiting for something I felt strongly about to crop up, and had very little content, and at that point I had no vote out despite having stated scumreads. I'm not super happy with my play this game.

Also I am generally very good at looking scummy (or thinking I do) D1, hence my whole "HAS ALWAYS CLAIMED ROLE D1" shtick.

Maybe I'm just feeling like I've been emulating my attitude from Inception too much this game, and I was definitely scum then

Not understanding the Bearclaw wagon, btw. It's like, what, he's been inactive? There's like a weak vote on him by Shinori (not anymore, though), and then two of my scumreads piled on later for reasons that are just as weak, or weaker. Would not be surprised if this was a scum (or two, but that seems unlikely) looking to ride an easy wagon.

Also we should think about consolidating soon, imo. I'm definitely not gonna be around at deadline, and only *might* be around in the morning.

We currently have three equal wagons at three votes each, and it'd probably be a good idea to let people in danger of being lynched claim abilities before we lynch :V

Learned helplessness, AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!! Ahem. . .as a player, you CAN do a bit about that, whether it be questioning people, commenting on super-early stuff, etc. RPing to the point where I feel like you're using it as an excuse to not post anything relevant is completely unproductive.

Green Poet (I think) reminded me that bearclaw is hated, which makes me feel ever-so-slightly better about his slot; however, I think he should sub out if his RL stuff will be an impediment to his playing. I won't protest a lynch on him, but I'm not feeling his case as strongly as before.

I agree with consolidation, and I should be here at deadline (unless I wake up late/take too long in the kitchen). Kinda feel like this post is there JUST to say "hey I posted", which makes me feel a wee bit uneasy. Wasn't happy with your previous content, either, so I won't complain if you're lynched. Right now, I think Phoenix looks worse.

[Eurykins]

Okay... gonna try and do whatev's I can. Forgive the incoming wall post (had a lot to catch up on)- will stick stuffies in spoilers to tone it down a bit.

EDIT: My typing speed... went down the drain, so it's apparently taking me longer than I thought to type this out. ;/

D1 Reads/Thoughts so far:

[spoiler=Poly]- I didn't see the logic in which he figured Phoenix was buddying to GP wrt this post (issue with GP's claim and whatnot). (I don't find someone merely agreeing with a bad idea to begin with (IE. Predictable scanning of someone/asking for one) would be a buddying tactic scum would go for?)

- The vote on FFM here kinda feels bad/easy? Like, "You should vote people, like this~ *insert FFM vote here*", and then jumping to FFM's defense here in your next post. Hot/cold much?

~ Also, the logic regarding Shinori's vote I don't altogether agree with either; I don't see an issue with pressure-voting/reaction-testing, especially given ED1 timing? (Isn't it one of the easier and yet more efficient ways to get D1 rolling and started?)

- WRT this post:

~ Looking up a role that'd be a viable one to fakeclaim D1 (and heavily discourage lynching her) is always an option? (Also, picking one that's pretty rare = less chances of getting randomly CC'd as well). So I'm not sure her experience with the game would really affect a claim- fake or not, imo. Not in this sense.

- This post's logic only stands under the assumption that GP's claim is real/true.

- This reads post seems weak to me- I can agree with some of the reasons/reads listed, but the rest just seem sub-par. Not overly thrilled with 'em.

- Overall: All in all, I'm not getting a great vibe from Poly. Leaning scum.

[spoiler=TheOneTrueSupreme(Darros]- Will agree with the notion here wrt GP/Phoenix.

- Wall post here felt okay to me, though him replying to Shinori on a post/question that was directed at FFM kinda annoys me (pet peeve of mine seeing/having people answer questions for someone else without warrant). And it felt kinda... puffed/fluffed up? Like I read the wall and I felt like I got less meaningful content from it than I felt I should've (for the post size/'content' it had)?

- WRT this post:

~ I felt this post was a LOT longer than it needed to be, and seems kinda padded. Lots of misc. responses/replies that weren't really necessary and kinda filled up the post. Looks big, but brought little to the table?

~ I thought the Shinori's responses/replies were a bit weird, but those felt more like differences in trains of thought/opinions more than anything.

~ If someone (Kop) is at a wedding, leave him be, sheesh! ;/ Just because he has time to put in small posts doesn't necessarily mean he has time to get full-blown read posts out or anything.

@Darros: (with regards to the inactivity on my part) Yeah, my hands were bleeding and I ripped open more blisters yesterday and today (and had my hands/arms dunked in salt water all today while at my Aquarium shift. That was brutal, and it's been taking a toll on my ability to type/post anything. x_x;;

- Regarding the "Off" part in this post: I'll actually disagree with the notion that bad logic = necessarily leads to scummy. I know that I myself (and many others) have had and used bad logic/cases before, but unless there's scum intent behind it, I don't believe it's a reliable way of scumreading someone.

- Overall: I kinda don't like the feel of a lot of the posts Darros's put up so far. And the Nikki Minaj face still scares me. ;_; Leaning scummy here.

[spoiler=Phoenix01]- There's something about this post I don't like. People claiming shouldn't be the reason behind prompting investigations, nor should we be openly debating about investigations as a whole. Not sure if just reckless newbie logic or something more.

- WRT this post:

~ I'm not sure I altogether agree with the Elieson logic; similar time frames means that there are similar games/experiences to be had. Though everyone has different learning curves, sure, I'm not sure using that as means of saying that Iris's logic vs Elie based on time/experience in Mafia games is really that strong at all.

~ However, I will agree that Elie didn't seem condescending from what I saw in his posts; imo, the discontentment towards Elie was based on the fact that he called Iris out for doing something wrong. (Perhaps got bristled over it?)

~ Not sure the Bearclaw vote here was overly impressive, but I suppose it sits as a prod vote more than anything.

- The reads in this post seem a bit... weak/sparse? Not sure if it's just me, but some of the reads (wrt your null/"not much to say", "nothing really" reads, etc.) kinda scream either lazy/shallow reads/thoughts or you're purposely being vague and posting wall reads just to put forth pseudo townie effort. I also don't see a whole lot of reference points/links/reasons/etc. behind a lot of the reads, so it makes it harder to get a jist of why each read sits as they are.

- Overall: I'm having some issues with Phoenix's content/reads so far, though I'm not sure if this is newbie!town or newbie!scum playing. There's much to be desired in the posts thus far though, and as it stands, things are a bit questionable. Null, leaning slightly scummy.

[spoiler=GreenPoet]- I'm inclined to agree with this logic/reason as to why GP said anything wrt her claim.

- However, I don't agree with her notion here, since I'd find it highly unlikely that two variants of the beloved role would exist in the same game. Even if it was not an exact same beloved effect CC, anything remotely the same would be grounds to doubt one or the other.

- WRT this post:

~ I don't really agree with the defense towards Phoenix and him having no vote if/when he had suspicions already. There's a certain line that has to be drawn at some point in which you have to start placing a vote, otherwise you're no better than a fencesitter who'll say a lot but have absolutely no backbone whatsoever in terms of supporting a scumread and/or commit to a case they have. (If you keep playing by, "I have an issue with this person, but I don't feel strong enough to merit a vote for them yet", then it becomes a game of "how much scum does a scum have to ooze out before you finally pick up a rag and finally deal with him?")

~ I'm not so sure that he (at the time that I posted my post) [FFM] has been posting pure content- ED1 posts were filled with self-defense posts/comments, some which were horribly done, imo. He played out some pretty bad posts, and not all of it can be played off as 'common newb plays', imo.

- WRT Refa meta comment here: he's posted a lot before as both scum and town. Not really a solid means of meta playing/scanning him, imo.

- I didn't have too much issue with this post until the end:

"I'm also not liking the cases on Darros right now, as he's seemed fairly townish to me so far, though I haven't ISO'd him intently myself and should probably do that soon."

And then the change of heart in the next post here:

"Somewhat bothered by Darros' play so far."

[The early gameplay/votes are easy to see/read as you go on/play the game. I'm not seeing you as one to miss them, GP, and the hot/cold nature in which you go from finding him townish to him bothering you feels kinda bad to me.]

- Last post/unvote here makes no sense to me at all. You found Bearclaw to be null leaning town in your previous post, Darros bothered you, and Iris clearly sat ill with you a few posts back.

1. Why are you still muddling on about unvoting Elie? (all you have to do is also look back through your posts; again, doesn't seem like something careless you'd say/do, GP.)

2. Why aren't you voting either Iris OR Darros at this point regarding your feeling/reads on them thus far?

3. Why so focused on the number of votes on Bearclaw at this point?

Your post feels like you're stalling out, or otherwise posting an empty post. Why?

- Overall: I'm a bit bothered by GP's gameplay thus far. It's nothing like what I saw/felt in P3, and I'm not feeling a whole lot of townie vibe from it. Despite whatever Beloved role she claimed, her play's not really yelling out to me that she's town.

[spoiler=Refa]- WRT this post:

~ Your comment regarding Newb!town is also assuming that said person would also know the full extent/potential of their role. In addition, if they had that knowledge, then they'd also have a general idea not to paint themselves in a light/obvious manner (IE. Becoming as defensive as FFM was) that'd imply such a thing.

~ Wouldn't necessarily agree with Poly meta.

~ There wasn't much at the time to dissect, and all of my points toward FFM's post(s) had their own points to them. So not sure where you were going wrt my post.

~ I find the logic WRT Elie/FFM kinda flimsy and weak at best. Not really agreeing with it much at all. (Vote on Elie feels kinda bad, imo)

- WRT this post:

~ Will once again disagree with your meta read on Shinori. He's been both lazy as town and scum, just as he's been active as both town and scum. In addition, just because he hasn't done anything obviously scummy doesn't mean he isn't scum, nor does it confirm him as fully being town. (My townread on him currently = based on this game's content, not meta, so I'm not contradicting myself in saying this.) I'm surprised with how much meta town-clearing you're attempting to do this game.

~ Don't altogether agree with your notion via the townreads, but will admit that it could come down to simple personal preferences/ideology in playing the game.

~ Fair points on FFM and Phoenix.

- Fair points against Darros here.

- WRT this post:

~ (can't respond to Bearclaw points since I've yet to ISO him on this list)

~ I don't think FFM is truly newbie enough to warrant holding Darros on that much of a higher standard than FFM. FFM's had a decent handful of games thus far, and has already done well enough in terms of gameplay (aside from getting shot before he could do anything meaningful in P3). So I figure it's best to drop the newbie card now before you create more biases in terms of reads on him because he may be a newer player than Darros.

[The only one who can remotely get away with the newbie card in this game, imo, would probably be Phoenix01 for obvious reasons (only real new face I see in this game), and even then, the wiggle room is minimal.]

~ Regarding scum reads: I use "Slightly scummy" vs. "Drop dead grimy scum" to draw the line between where my priorities stand. Imo, several people can harbor scum reads in my mind, but what they do/the amount of content/gut reads I have on them to justify it can vary. So, in my case, I use them because I feel the need to, and it also helps explain why people are higher/lower on my priority/lynch lists. End of story.

~ Last comment: " All I have to say is come at me scum, I welcome the challenge." Role crumb much?

- This post just feels really weird to me.

~ " Does Darros usually get mislynched, because I thought the whole D1 Doctor thing was a joke. If that's the case, I'll need to reevaluate my read on him accordingly."

~ Whether the answer is "yes" or "no", your gameplay/judgement should be based on what happens in this game. Just because he may/may not have gotten mislynched in another game doesn't mean we should be hyper paranoid about mislynching him this game. If he does things that are scummy, you don't backpedal just because "He's been mislynched before!". That seems like a really strange and, imo, suspicious statement to me.

- The comment here regarding Darros makes little sense to me. As town, he's been mislynched. So what? As far as I'm concerned, other players like Poly and myself have also had a horrible time in getting mislynched as well due to playing style, and I don't see you backpedaling in that regard? Stop basing everything in terms of how you read Darros based on meta- it's not only affecting your reads on him, but to what extent you also let things either affect a read, or fly under the radar.

- Overall: I really don't care for a lot of Refa's posts/content atm. Majority of his reads seem based on meta (town or scum), and all in all, he's leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Leaning scum.

[spoiler=Iris]- Comment against Refa here was kinda bad, since it was all RVS shizz.

- Don't agree with FFM newbie point, nor with Elieson case here.

- I can see the logic with pushing questions to prompt thoughts from newbies, but I got a weird/bad gut vibe in how she asked FFM about Shinori here.

- WRT this post:

~ ...*cries* I'll always be Euklyd 2.0 it seems... ;____;"

~ Realtalk: I'm not so sure that this Poly vote really has some merit. Maybe he just forgot about you? Or maybe he did re-read your ISO and just didn't find the need to post a case or another post saying he did? Overall, just seems to be a pretty flimsy reason to vote for someone, imo.

- I don't know what to make of your last line in this post; the vagueness + the fact that you even mentioned said town reads (but openly expressing that you won't elaborate on them for "obvious reasons" kinda annoys me to some extent (consider it another pet peeve of mine- don't unnecessarily dangle shit in front of our faces with the intent to cut it off from us).

~ Refa comment/blurb also seemed kinda...waffly?

- Overall: Iris is rubbing off on me really weird. Maybe it's just disagreeable gameplay, but her Poly vote was bad, along with her last post. Null leaning scum.

[spoiler=Elieson]- WRT this post:

~ Regarding my post: Euklyd said he was sheeping someone (hence the 'baa baa'), thus my slight joke post of preferring to be a horse.

~ Was about to ask about your statement regarding GP's role/claim wrt: "since it essentially means a night with no nightkills in exchange for no information" (but I think plenty of people have poked you about that already).

~ Was okay with the responses to FFM and Iris.

- Though I agree here that the Refa vote by Iris was kinda bad, I don't think I agree with the blurb at the bottom of said post (it feels like Elie tried a bit too hard to form a case around the whole Refa vote?).

- WRT this wall post:

~ Iris vote still felt a bit weak and was otherwise cast in a questionable manner, imo.

~ Agreed with the reads/logic on FFM + Euklyd.

- Overall: Aside from maybe attacking Iris a bit strong early on, I don't have any issues with Elie atm. Null, leaning townie.

[spoiler=DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY]- Already commented on this post.

- I don't like the feel I get from this post.

- The logic against Elieson here kinda seems wonky, imo. I felt his Euklyd vote was justified well enough, and to claim that you expected Elie to vote swap to someone randomly "without explanation" (when he clearly did have a case against Euklyd) makes me wonder why you thought/figured this.

- Hmm... I actually like the feel of this post, in the sense that Junko has some feel/sense of conviction with his Phoenix read/thoughts and I felt the questions were pushing for more thoughts/progress, which is good.

- Overall: I'm not entirely sure, since I've felt good and bad vibes from different posts as a whole. Keeping him at null atm.

[spoiler=FFM]- Inaccurate in assuming Iris was defensive here.

- All of these sound really bad.

- Don't coast on the newbie card, please.

- Don't see a whole lot of merit to this.

- The reads here feel a bit thin/shallow here. Not much depth to them. Not exactly the most solid Bearclaw vote either.

- Overall: I stand by my earlier statement that I'm not thrilled overall with FFM's gameplay. I'm not even sure one could chalk it up to 'newbie' gameplay or anything of the sort. Scummy until proven clean.

[spoiler= Eclipse]- Solid post here.

- More solid logic posts here.

- Thankies~ much <3's Clipsey!

- Overall: I've seen nothing wrong with Eclipse's posts thus far, and she's probably one of my top townie reads atm.

[spoiler= Shinori]- Felt that this post had some merit.

- Can see/somewhat agree with the logic wrt Elie here.

- WRT this post:

~ Bearclaw and Poly cases seem relatively solid.

~ Responses to Iris felt decent.

- LIIIIIIIIIIES. Actually... I dunno. BUT TYPING IS SLOWER FOR ME RIGHT NOW, SO SUE ME. Q_Q.

- Overall: Solid gameplay thus far, so tossing him as a solid town read atm.

[spoiler=Dragonfang13]- This post was basically useless/meaningless, imo. (Brings nothing to the table)

- I can sorta see the logic behind the Poly post here, but at the same time, it feels like an extremely vote to make.

- Can likewise see the logic here, but again, this and the prior posts have all been about Poly.

- Overall: Poly tunnel, and then not much else. Also posts earlier = empty, and hasn't really shown much since (given RL situation, I can sorta see why, but as a result, I'm seeing a narrow-sighted, and possibly slacking/lazy gameplay as a whole). Scummy 'til proven clean.

[spoiler=Euklyd]- ...I'm not sure I see the real purpose of this post? Nothing really put forth regarding FFM, Refa wagon, etc?

- This read post kinda... derps out like the one above... I keep reading it, and no real content's coming out to me. Like, da fuq?

- None of these said anything meaningful in regards to reads/thoughts/etc. on people.. wat? WHY AM I EVEN READING THESE WALLS? EUKLYD, WHAI YOU WASTE MAH TIME? T_T

- (Realtalk) Overall: So, Euklyd's like, tied for Kop in terms of "not contributing anything to this game", imo. Except Kop has a legitimate reason for being inactive, and hasn't been posting walls of nothingness as Euklyd has done. Scummy 'til proven clean? (If he he's had the time to post walls, he's had time for actual thoughts/reads.) Scummy 'til proven clean.

TL;DR Priorities:

Would happily lynch: Euklyd, FFM, Refa, Dragonfang 13

Would consolidate lynching if none the above: Darros, Phoenix01, Iris, Poly

Would not lynch: Eclipse, Shinori, Kop, DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY, Elieson, Green Poet

So my vote still stands on FFM. And with that... I'm really tired, so I'm out for the night. Gawds... that post... @_@;;

[Da Bear]

FFM:

-Shinori suspicion was blatant OMGUS and the reason she gave was terribly thought out. (I feel like scum would be a good deal more self-conscious about making posts like this)

-Lots of spam/useless posts.

-Vote on Kopf is fairly well reasoned but it also looks like she really wants his vote off of her.

-Vote on me looked weak at the time but if she had already been suspicious of me beforehand (she did say this) because of eclipse's case then I don't feel as bad about it.

Overall null/leaning town. Would prefer not to lynch.

I'll read Phoenix after church and get a read of him up. How many hours until deadline?

[Kaoz]

-Not playing.-

8 hours and 5 minutes until deadline.

-Not playing.-

[Phoenix01]

Will attempt to explain my best claw vote later; can't be on much right now.

[FrostyFireMage]

Heading to bed now. Pretty comfortable with where my vote is.