Thousand Names Mafia Day 4

[Excellen Browning]

Also to note, Snike's posting style had remarkable similarity to his play in badass mafia where he was mad, but I was strongly doubting whether or not that was a legitimate scumread and not just the way he posts.

[Zkirsche]

Prims why was Excellen townie D1?

[Zkirsche]

Nice of you to point that out after he was lynched.

Excellen whoisscum?

[Excellen Browning]

FucK off kid, I'm going to sleep.

[Zkirsche]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

[Shinori]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Prims]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

if this post wasn't from an american PoV it'd be life except ironically

[Zkirsche]

Shots fired.

[Zkirsche]

Shinori if you cba to play at least vote Excellen with me so we can catch mafia.

Prims why was Excellen townie D1 or have you explained already somewhere in your ISO?

[Shinori]

I'm waiting for responses from mods.

[Prims]

@kirsche: will get back to you when I write a more comprehensive post, which will be once everybody in my lynch pool has produced content (or if they take too long and I'm like "fuck it let's just kill them"). I'm out of the thread for now.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@prims

kirsche/shin kept kept saying that vhaltz was their second pick but they kept their votes on snike the entire time (also wanna mention that i thought 1 of these 2 couldve been vhaltzs partner had snike flipped town) and quote had just made headway with his paperblade vote. all 3 players you mention seemed locked in to their new targets and snike/paper werent doin themselves any favors. i said the most i could about vhaltz but no one was biting and cuz i thought deadline was gonna b that night i moved my vote

why do you believe that rose is worse than gaius/paper? youre taking issue with rose (which im fine with. hes my second pick) keeping his hands free of the vhaltz wagon but didnt paper do the same thing cept worse cuz he kept doing it for the majority of the day with little else? feel free to ignore this question til rose gets in here

[Bossanova]

Revealed my gun too soon and ended up dead for it. Go town.

[ZoesMad]

Edit for cuts: This post is slightly outdated and talks about things I wanted to say D1 along with stuff that happened today.

Alright, sorry for being unable to post anything major D1. Was job hunting all day and relatives were visiting at night. Anyway, I'm mostly caught up to speed with the game. Have some thoughts on what's happened.

I don't think Vhaltz is auto cleared. I think it's possible that Vhaltz was building disassociation with Snike early game, and they accidentally built too strong cases against each other. Like, in my experience as scum in AM/PM 2, Marth and BBM were casing each other literally the entire game, and it led to solid town cred for Marth. That being said, I'm still town reading Vhaltz because his play has been quite good. I liked his logic when he was put into the 1v1 with Snike

Yolo I noticed you voted me, and inactivity does suck, not much I could do about it unfortunately. Any reason you voted me/my slot over Rose or Mancer/Eury, who I know you FoSed, but you never really gave reason for picking me over the other two, who from your perspective are just as likely to be inactive scum coasting unless you give a reason for voting me.

I remember people talking about whether Shin's role was town or not, and I think it's hard to tell because we never learned if Via's target was town or mafia aligned. And honestly, since Via had no kills, giving scum a possible extra kill wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

As for the Excellen case by Prims and Kirsche, you say it's scummy to not vote Snike after having him as one of your two top priority scumreads, but Excellen has reasons in his post for voting Kirsche. You're pretty blatantly ignoring what Excellen said. He believed that Snike was going to be the lynch D1, but was wondering what reactions to his Kirsche case would be. Prims, after the Rapier flip Excellen literally said in post 264 (paraphrasing) "I'm withholding voting to let my thoughts crystallize." Why is it scummy for him to not vote Snike immediately? I don't see the lack of conviction because it's clear Snike was still Excellen's second highest scumread.

As for cases I have. I think Mancer was quite wishy washy while he was on game, and most of his posts relieved on WIFOM/Meta reads instead of relying on scumhunting which should be a town player's greatest pursuit. Eury hasn't done much (I know I haven't either) so waiting to see what she thinks of the game. Among the inactives Rose seems more overwhelmed town then scum coasting. Hard to read the slot considering the low post count. Nullish overall. Yolo seems like he's just choosing over the inactives without putting any actual thought into who he cases. Less scummy overall because his defense of his D1 actions wrt to the Snike switch have seemed plausible to me. Was going to push boss today but that didn't happen.

Shin is kind of off settling for me. Unlike Vhaltz, I'm a bit more wary of his turnaround on the read. Like, he seemed like he was still pushing Vhaltz in the post where he initially votes Snike, but later on says that the need to make it a 1v1 was enough to switch his vote. I didn't really feel that send rof urgency from Snike until Chaltz replied later on in the thread, and it seemed like an easy way for Shin to switch off a losing battle. Also I think the assassin kill role is alignment null.

Mancer/Eury>>Yolo>>Shin>>Other people

##Vote: Eurykins

[Shin]

Since YOLO's switch came after Via's, I don't consider it telling from a VCA standpoint. kirsche already looks townie on play imo, but I think kirsche tying the wagons is pretty town bc Snike didn't have to become a big wagon if he kept voting you. Shin's vote looks less solid if it's the second because he could've been scum who thought the Vhaltz wagon would persist and wanted to muddy up interactions in the meantime. However, I don't have any big problems with his play or Snike interactions besides the turn-around itself seeming unnaturally quick.

My big question would be why I'd vote and actively contribute to my scumbuddy being lynched as scum. I mean, it could be crazy bussing, but you can see how badly that went if it were the case. I guess this question can be pitched to LG too, LG, if you note Via was said to have been burned rather than shot, so it's different from Rapier's death. I'm very much assuming the character I'm protecting is town, although I'm a little hesitant to trust the game's flavour.

YOLO, do you still think that Vhaltz is scum? I really don't see a Vhaltz/Snike partnership being particularly likely. I'm just struggling to see how it would have worked from their interactions. I'm slightly unsettled by Prims' slot again, although that's more a gut feeling than anything else. I recall his play bothering me during D1, but it kinda recovered somewhat. I can't really make anything of it, but I'd like to get it out there. Still, I can't actually find much wrong with his recent posts. I guess he just sucks for suspecting me or something!

Excellen's stuck in what I like to call the "Rapier dilemma", I can't tell if he's scum or just simply playing poorly. I have a feeling that his refusal to give kirsche any scum reads is simply from a bad attitude than malicious intent.

##Vote: Shinori

I appreciate he hasn't had a chance to post, but I really don't like the slot. It was incredibly detached from the game. There wasn't a single read or a vote at all during their play, and even the comments they made were really ambivalent and not particularly insightful. Of course, this is subject to change when Shinori turns up, but this is what I'm going on.

Paper's defense of Vhaltz would kinda make sense as scum since Snike's flipped, but at this point I'm not terribly certain about. It'd kinda suck with we had a mondo Vhaltz/Paper/Snike scumteam!

[Vhaltz]

Not really interested in Excellen atm

##Vote: Shinori

sup with the mod responses, did you read the game?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@gaius

im voting yu cuz of papers constant defense of vhaltz d1. i hav NO idea why hed whiteknight vhaltz as consistently as he did outside of being scum with knowledge of vhaltzs alignment tryna look good on a vhaltz flip. he also didnt provide anything in terms of scumreads outside of a weak snike lynch endorsement that only popped up once he started getting heavy heat. im also confident that at least 1 scum was off the wagon cuz i rarely see both partners bus their sunken scummate specially on d1

@shin

im operating under the assumption that vhaltz is unaligned with snike which lends itself to my gaius/paper vote. i wouldnt look at him outside of a *ylo situation where im forced to reevaluate and consider a wild bus

[Zkirsche]

@Gaius: My Excellen case has very little to do with that tbh. My main thing that I liked about Prims' case is that he withheld voting for various posts until he fabricated his dumb scumread on me. I have all of his poor D1 and poor Snike interactions as part of my case so you'll need more than one paragraph to dismiss it.

@Yolo: Why is not voting worse than voting against a mafioso's wagon?

@Vhaltz: Why are you not interested in Excellen.

[Shinori]

Okay so now i can actually play this game.

Fucking night actions are wierd and wonky and i don't like it.

Can someone give me a quick tldr recap?

We all know i suck at rereading WHOLE threads.

[Zkirsche]

Excellen is scum and you should vote him.

[Shinori]

Not really interested in Excellen atm

##Vote: Shinori

sup with the mod responses, did you read the game?

Lol nope.

If I have to I'll read the most recent pages and try to get a general jist of whats happening and I'll start formulating my reads from here.

[Shinori]

Why is he scum? What page is your case on him?

[Eurykins]

Hrrrm, kk. Welp, incoming Eury wall post tiiiiiiiiiime.

(Will kinda be posting up my thoughts on the main events that've occurred, my thoughts on what happened, etc. etc.)

>> D1: Rapier getting shot in the face (by Bossanova).

- While I do notice (after reading Rapier's ISO) that he seems more intent on focusing on Excellen's points wrt Shin, and possibly seem a bit tunneled on Excellen, I don't see his posts as being wrong/bad. It makes sense to me (his arguments), and likewise doesn't come off with scum intent in terms of how/why the arguments are occurring.

In terms of people who wanted Rapier DEAD (or was otherwise voting/on his wagon):

> Excellen: Seems to mostly want him dead based on disagreeing/being on the other side of Rapier's arguments. I also find the majority of arguments/comments aimed at Shin/Rapier seemed quite distasteful in terms of borderline arrogance and semi-condescending notions of "I'm right and the Guide to playing Mafia says I'm right as well" (in a situation that wouldn't actually make Excellen right?), which is dropping a pretty bad vibe in my books.

> Bossanova: Shot Rapier, obvs. Re-reading his posts, I have to mildly facepalm because, quite honestly, there wasn't a whole lot of reason for him shooting this slot. "I think he should exist more", "Are anyone here actually town-reading his slot yet?"; "I've been itching to pull the trigger on someone". Comments like these just makes him seem like a compulsive, trigger-happy person, and I don't think he really put much thought into the shot, despite Rapier not having done anything extremely scummy to warrant the quick death/waste of a vig shot. :/ (I also think that "Gambit" in doing the killing shot was kinda moot/pointless, but that's just my personal opinion on how things were executed.)

> Paperblade: He votes pretty early on, but all in all, it doesn't seem like he puts a whole lot of pressure/focus on the Rapier wagon. All he says is "I'm wanting him to answer X question", but the bigger issue I have with PB as a whole this game is the fact that he hasn't seem to said anything truly meaningful, IMO? All he's been stating is, "I don't agree with the Vhaltz wagon", "Y's posts are hard to read", and constantly defending the Vhaltz wagon. I know his internet is out currently (based on his last post), but of the posts he made (during the time/pages he did) had very little to no actual meaningful content in terms of scum hunting and the such. Likewise garnering a negative vibe from this slot.

((I don't think I saw/read anyone else on Rapier's wagon/voting him at any time? If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me in this.))

>> D1: Via getting removed by Shin.

- Via sort of put themselves out here by doing the claim that held the potential of removing a townie as a means of winning, alongside the fact that a lot of their posts dropped the heavy disposition of not really wanting to contribute a lot in terms of scum hunting. There was a lot of coasting and notions to just "Let them win", which came off a bit poor to me (I don't see the logic in "let me win by killing off someone who's probably going to end up being town-sided, as per assumed by flavor-hunting and whatnot, and I won't get in town's way!" [which in itself would be INACCURATE, as if it required a TOWNIE death to achieve, then it is already in itself an anti-town/harmful to townside regardless of intent], and there was very little in terms of effort/interest to heavily #effort in this slot, I felt.) This is why I questioned why we would bother keeping a claimed ITP alive and floating around this game.

> Shin: I felt he posted well in terms of responding to/reacting to Via's claims and apparent role. There wasn't a whole lot of unnecessary information being divulged, but yet did what he needed to do (role-wise and such) to remove Via's slot from play. I am okay with this gameplay/how he handled this situation.

>> D1: Snike being lynched.

- Resulted in scum being removed. GJ town!

In terms of people who were on this wagon (or otherwise had peculiar interactions with this wagon):

> Prims: I can understand his vote concept/thoughts around Snike (though I will require another re-reading of the Vhaltz case to pick up where/why he chose to drop the Vhaltz vote and move onto Snike), and I didn't get a "scum shipping scum"-esque vibe from his vote swap in itself (and the commentary/posting thereafter).

> Excellen: I find there is a mild vibe of "distancing factor" when it comes to the Snike lynch. "Suspicions on Snike have not gone away, but IDK anything about rolespec so I don't really know what to say about his Driver claim." Plus the fact that (in this same post that this comment was made), Excellen chose to vote Kirsche over Snike just because "a Snike lynch seems to be mostlikely today", it has a heavier vibe that moreso feels like redirecting attempts away from a Snike lynch on D1. Secondly, the post in which he was stuck between Rapier and Snike for voting (while Rapier was still alive), as much as he says it was just "chance/a coin flip", it would not be so much so if Excellen ends up being Snike's buddy (voting Rapier over Snike in that post).

> Shin: I could see his vote, and so far I haven't found too much issue within his ISO as a whole (so I'm okay with his slot).

> YOLOSWAG: Ah... well, I'll admit it took me some time to read his ISO (my eyes/brain mildly hurt from having to sort through his posts- no offense intended to Yolo's posts directly [or himself], but the lots of typos/grammatical errors/etc. makes my brain cry inside a bit and makes posts a bit harder for me to read smoothly). As far as I can tell, the vote on Snike from this slot seems PURELY out of consolidation (or resignation in terms that the Vhaltz wagon wasn't happening D1), which makes this vote seem a bit easy, but this can easily be done from either spectrum, imo (scum/town both can easily do this, and consolidation votes in themselves =/= scummy). The rest of YOLO's ISO kinda... feels like an explosion hit the fan and scattered shit everywhere (very hard to follow and even harder to re-read), so I have mixed vibes on this slot.

- Kirsche: I'm okay with his Snike vote swap/staying on Snike, and I also agree that, despite the "Snike v. Vhaltz" thing happening, Vhaltz is not guaranteed clear imo, mainly because "Vhaltz being the first person to call out Snike!" doesn't make him auto-town. I've done plenty of scum games in which I've called out my buddies first and foremost for doing something stupid/bad/scummy/etc. in terms of gameplay, and so that in itself is not an auto-towntell. Secondly, SNIKE was the one who pulled in the "1v1", and at that point, his fate as already sealed for the most part (most were sold on his lynch for D1). Why not pull a 1v1 gambit to try and "clear" a scumbuddy with his death? Therefore, Vhaltz should NOT be fully cleared at this point by any means.

- Vhaltz: Seemingly OK Snike vote, but I've yet to fully look into the wagon/casing on him and to fully re-read through his ISO as a whole to see whether the wagon on him had merit or not.

TL;DR of my thoughts so far since D1:

> I think Bossanova should NOT have vigged Rapier (because there really wasn't good/solid reason to do so imo), but what's done is done. (RIP them both)

> Excellen has probably had the worst in terms of interactions with scum and the wagons/cases that occurred throughout D1. Probs my top suspect currently.

> The 1v1 Gambit between Snike/Vhaltz is to be considered and does NOT auto-clear Vhaltz in any means (nor does "Vhaltz pointing out Snike first" make him anymore townie than anyone else).

> LG subbed in (like myself) and seemed initially okay, but I'm mildly confused by his last wallish post? (I'm assuming his post on my slot is a prod of sorts to pressure/garner more reaction from me, but I'm not sure if that's the case or not?)

> I DO need to re-read a few people, namely Vhaltz (and the case(s) on him), YOLOSWAG, and possibly Prims/maybe Kirsche? (I saw some people having issues with their slots, but on my first read through their ISOs/the thread, I didn't have much issues with them personally).

##Vote: Excellen

((I'll be back later today to pull in any other newer posts/thoughts, but taking a short break from posting for a bit.))

[Vhaltz]

@Vhaltz: Why are you not interested in Excellen.

It feels like all that stuff could've come from stubborn and unlucky town. Specifically find it odd that scum would go "man I'd vote either of these two exactly the same amount even though my scumbuddy is now the main wagon. Lemme vote the townie real quick" when I'd usually expect a bus to be either full blown or subtle in the way of letting them slide as secondary/tertiary scumreads, scum!Excellen could've just made up some reason to suspect Rapier a bit more so it feels like more honest weighing of the cases?

I'll confess I haven't fully reread Excellen and your case on their D1 though, I'm just more interested in Shinori not being a slob and posting shit. Eury's post is a decent recall of events to start with so might as well get to that.

[Zkirsche]

Excellen basically did let him slide as a secondary scumread though. Him saying two people are equally scummy does not mean he actually does.

@Shinori: Page 19 has stuff but you'd probably be better off using my ISO and ctrl+f Excellen.

Eury is probably town for being right about Excellen.