FE9 Tier list v3

[Dark Sage]

What the hell is all of this? Is this Opearton Sandbag Mia all over again? Because with comments such as "a forge is generous to Mia" and "Mia has bad earlygame" and possibly even denying supports, Guard/Wrath/Adept, I'm being lead to believe that this is 2009 all over again.

For god's sake, Mia's uses have been discussed thoroughly throughout this topic. You can use the search function to find some of Interceptor's arguments, but this is honestly inexcusable.

[Lord Raven]

err we're passed that now smh it's Mia v Zihark and I'm not saying Mia is frail or anything, just that Zihark is more durable.

[Dark Sage]

Mia vs Zihark? Honey, I thought we were trying to argue Soren vs Mia since that's unresolved and nobody really brought up Zihark>Mia except you. Zihark is already above Mia and they're similar enough that I don't really care who's better than who.

Anyway, I noticed that there's a lot of sandbagging with Mia just to make Soren look better. I especially love how Mia getting a forge is being "generous" to Mia now and how you can ignore the fact that she's very good with a forge. Oh and I love how you can handwave the fact that Soren can get a thunder forge while Mia can't despite the fact Soren's forge costs over twice as much as a steel forge for Mia and he has worse move and enemy phase. Even richer is how it's ok to make fantasy arguments crafted by Soren fanboys such as sandbagging Mia out of supports, ignoring the fact that Soren's avoid and concrete durability aren't reliable even with A Ike, ignoring the fact Soren's earlygame is even worse than Mia's early on, ignore the fact Soren has problems getting weighed down by his weapons, and claiming that Mia is 10/0 by the time Zihark joins. I honestly thought we were past the Yojinbo/Smash style of arguing where giving units resources they're fine with is somehow favoritism and bad unless it's for characters that you like, in which case it's ok.

[Lord Raven]

As well as you ignoring the fact that I acknowledged all that and changed my question to "why is Zihark > Mia"

EDIT: Just saw your post Kitty Admiral... is Zihark better because of Earth support and the fact that he needs to consume less resources to hit that level? Then what exactly explains Soren being used here? Tier lists for these games confuse the piss out of me.

[Radiant Dragon]

I consider it less an issue of resources (we have so much BEXP in this game), and more because Zihark's offense and durability are better than Mia's, and Mia isn't doing a whole lot to help before Zihark joins (she's helpful in Ch.7, and to get the Houses in Ch.9, but aside from those she's not really contributing to completing maps until Ch.12).

[Dark Sage]

About Mia's perfomance, I'll just post this as a refresher course:

All this talk about PoR made me want to play it again, so I blew the dust off of my disc this weekend. I figured it would be a good idea to look at Mia's performance in a real playthrough, as opposed to a transfer run, to see if the reality matched my memories. Is she really as bad as people keep asserting? Is my run slowed down by using her? Does the BEXP needlessly pauper the army? Etc. I started a run with the idea of playing Mia efficiently, in Fixed mode, so that she didn't get RNG-blessed or anything.

Preliminary results? All of you who say that Mia is a drag on the party are out of your fucking trees. Do you have any idea how to play this game at all? Jesus Christ, I thought this game was easy when I was doing transfer runs that delibrately used crappy characters and hoarded BEXP/stat-ups until Endgame... when I am playing efficiently, with an eye towards winning, it's not just easy, it's a non-stop steamroll curb-stomp.

I'll give an example. In Chapter 7, Mia is basically dead weight. I had her kill the archer that spawned chasing her, and then I just used her for opening chests and maybe killing some scrub-bag that Titania missed by 2 HP if I had nothing better to do at the time. This is an 11-turn chapter for BEXP purposes, and I was running out of shit to kill on turn 7-8.

Come next chapter, I get access to Base and I decide to put the BEXP theory to the test. Let's level-up Mia and make her good. So, I took my copious amounts of BEXP (I got max for every chapter, naturally, since my cat could beat this game), and spread it out amongst Mia, Boyd, and Oscar so that all three of them were level 10 at the end. This left me with 918 BEXP, which admittedly is quite a bit left of the ~1500+, and I could have spent it right there, but I want to save some for Ilyana (since I am going to use her) and other up-and-coming units.

Well, it didn't matter anyway, I raped that chapter so hard that on Turn 8 (the last turn) I had nothing left to kill. At all. Everything was dead. Two random idiots that spawned on the last possible turn, a soldier and a myrm in the east, used their actions to suicide into Boyd on Enemy Phase. Here's some of what those poor bastards were up against:

- Boyd, level 10. 13mt forged Iron Axe, 12 STR, 10 SPD. Boyd was ORKO'ing Armors in this chapter. ARMORS. Would more levels would have made a difference here? Not likely!

- Oscar, level 10. Steel/Iron lances, Short Spear/Jav, 9 STR, 11 SPD. Not a ORKO'ing maniac, but doubles tons of shit and does good damage via Canto-bombing and 2-ranging.

- Titania, level 5. Steel/Iron axes, Hand Axe. 14 STR, 16 SPD. Those who know how to play the game know that you give Titania the boss kills (not that it takes any effort, since she stares at a boss and it dies), so this amped-up Titania is ORKO'ing tons of shit with just plain Hand Axes.

- Mia, level 10. Iron/Steel swords, Armorslayer. 9 STR, 15 SPD. Well holy shit, look what happens when you're not sandbagging Mia by not fixing her level. Now she's doing double 10's on Armors in this level with the slayer, aka 3HKO aka 2RKO aka better than Ike with a Regal.

Chapter 8 pwned. Chapter 9 found me sending Mia, Ilyana (who got some BEXP'ed levels to double a few things), Mist, Rolf, and Titania (to catch the bandit) down on the sand. Destruction happened, nothing with and axe could hurt Mia, and Ilyana's 2-range plus occasional potshot chips from Rolf made this a leisurely stroll on the beach. Got both houses saved, and even pwned the pirate reinforcements. The rest of the army had no problems plowing through to the Sieze square.

Chapter 10. I didn't Metal Gear Solid this one, I blazed through it like a herd of bulls left loose in a china shop (I wanted the treasure and master seal). Mia's contributions here included fighting the reinforcements that back-door you when the alarm sounds, as well as smashing apart the Armors at the exit. As with Chapter 7, I found myself 4 turns from the BEXP limit with really nothing left to kill and nobody left to rescue.

Chapter 11. All of my primary combatants, Mia included, are at least level 14-15 at this point. I deploy both Lethe/Mordy (slots to spare), and carefully position them so that Zihark doesn't waste KE uses (success!). Mia is doing a little bit less than normal in this chapter since she can't keep up with Tits and crew (who are charging toward the Arrive with Ike in tow), so I put her with Boyd/Ilyana and they clean up slow-movers and reinforcements. Z/Mordy/Lethe take care of the items/enemies on the north side.

Chapter 12. I top off the rest of Mia's level, bringing her to 17 (she is a touch ahead of others at this point, who are 16ish). I pass out more BEXP to even it up. I still have over 1100 fucking BEXP left over at this point, but I'd feel like a tool for spending it since I'm already raping the shit out of everything. I could give some to Zihark, who is getting badly beaten by Mia at this point (2 STR behind, 4 SPD behind, 5 LCK behind, 2 DEF behind, 2 HP behind, 4 RES behind, and Mia has C Rhys by this point for +1 mt/ +5 HIT), but there's no point in using two Myrms for this playthrough (another time, big Z). Anyway, you already know how this story turns out: Mia rapes the shit out of this chapter because she's doubling for like 20 damage a pop with the Laguzslayer, aka instant ORKO on every Raven in the chapter.

Chapter 13. Mia is level 18 now, she's probably going to promote to Swordmaster by the time that Chapter 15 is over, just in time for the VAGUE KATTI. I wonder if I will even bother with Wrath at this point. I mean, it's not even fair to the enemies.

Do I even need to keep fucking going? When does Mia magically start slowing down my team, exactly? Can someone help me out, here? Should I maybe start the game over and start doing retarded shit like having Soren tank and Volke be my primary damage dealer? Maybe I should BEXP dump Rolf or Mist so that I can't raise anyone else? Maybe I should kill off half my team? Maybe everyone needs iron weapons? Speaking of which, I didn't even give Mia a forge yet.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Sagekitty

[Radiant Dragon]

Personally, I'm of the opinion we should MGS Ch.10, since there's literally no reason not to and there are very real benefits to doing so.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Radiant Kitty

[-Cynthia-]

Anyway, I noticed that there's a lot of sandbagging with Mia just to make Soren look better. I especially love how Mia getting a forge is being "generous" to Mia now and how you can ignore the fact that she's very good with a forge. Oh and I love how you can handwave the fact that Soren can get a thunder forge while Mia can't despite the fact Soren's forge costs over twice as much as a steel forge for Mia

The 20/2 comparison aku chi made with Mia gave her a Steel forge (and gave Soren a Thunder forge). Seemed fair to me.

Even richer is how it's ok to make fantasy arguments crafted by Soren fanboys such as sandbagging Mia out of supports,

Can you justify Rhys being within 3 squares of Mia most of the time, let alone being deployed at all after a certain point? He's pretty bad. I can see Ilyana being more easily justified, but that doesn't close the Atk gap with Zihark, Stefan, or Soren.

ignoring the fact that Soren's avoid and concrete durability aren't reliable even with A Ike,

Not sure anyone claimed that Soren had reliable durability, just that Mia's wasn't much better.

ignoring the fact Soren's earlygame is even worse than Mia's early on,

What are we counting as 'earlygame' here? I think most have acknowledged that Soren's Chapter 7 is better at the very least, and that's where earlygame ends IMO.

ignore the fact Soren has problems getting weighed down by his weapons,

Fixed by a forge. If we're giving Mia forges and not Soren then I'm going to question who's being sandbagged here.

and claiming that Mia is 10/0 by the time Zihark joins. I honestly thought we were past the Yojinbo/Smash style of arguing where giving units resources they're fine with is somehow favoritism and bad unless it's for characters that you like, in which case it's ok.

Mia might be higher when Zihark joins true, but there's nothing preventing us from giving Zihark a good amount of BEXP as well. So far, arguments for Mia>Soren seem to revolve around Mia getting significantly more BEXP because "she's better with it", which I haven't really seen.

As for the Mia/Zihark comparisons, they were brought up regarding the various positions of Mia/Stefan/Zihark. Leaning towards putting Stefan right below Zihark right now (he beats Soren/Mia in offense for the most part even when they're given a lot of BEXP+resources, he beats Zihark too but by a smaller margin.)

[Dark Sage]

The 20/2 comparison aku chi made with Mia gave her a Steel forge (and gave Soren a Thunder forge). Seemed fair to me.

You are missing the point. He was claiming that giving Mia the forge was being generous to her, implying that she shouldn't get a forge, but it's ok for Soren to get one, which is such a crime to the English language, I am surprised he hasn't been convicted yet.

Can you justify Rhys being within 3 squares of Mia most of the time, let alone being deployed at all after a certain point? He's pretty bad. I can see Ilyana being more easily justified, but that doesn't close the Atk gap with Zihark, Stefan, or Soren.

I am not denying the fact that Soren has better offense than Mia, but I am definitely questioning his ability to use it. He's normally 2HKO'd by most enemies and his durability doesn't start picking up until A Ike. Of course we're also ignoring the advantages of how good Mia is with Vantage/Adept or Vantage/Guard, both of which fix her defensive problems and in the former option, also fixes any attack problems as well.

Not sure anyone claimed that Soren had reliable durability, just that Mia's wasn't much better.

Ignoring Vantage/Guard, Vantage/Wrath, or Vantage/Adept while being armed with a good weapon of course.

What are we counting as 'earlygame' here? I think most have acknowledged that Soren's Chapter 7 is better at the very least, and that's where earlygame ends IMO.

I was under the impression it was from Prologue to Chapter 9 or 10 IMO.

Fixed by a forge. If we're giving Mia forges and not Soren then I'm going to question who's being sandbagged here.

I never said that Soren doesn't deserve a forge and Mia does. That would be sandbagging. I'm saying don't claim that giving Mia a forge is somehow "generous" while handwaving the costs of Soren's forge like it's nothing. Obviously they should both get forges, it's just that Mia's happens to cost less.

Mia might be higher when Zihark joins true, but there's nothing preventing us from giving Zihark a good amount of BEXP as well. So far, arguments for Mia>Soren seem to revolve around Mia getting significantly more BEXP because "she's better with it", which I haven't really seen.

She gets a grand total of 400 BEXP in Chapter 8, or 300 if she gained a level and then she gets the same as everyone else. Here's a thought. How about estimating what level Soren might be by the end of Chapter 7 and then give HIM 400 BEXP and see how he does with it. If it's enough to be better than Mia with it, I might change my mind.

As for the Mia/Zihark comparisons, they were brought up regarding the various positions of Mia/Stefan/Zihark. Leaning towards putting Stefan right below Zihark right now (he beats Soren/Mia in offense for the most part even when they're given a lot of BEXP+resources, he beats Zihark too but by a smaller margin.)

Don't really care about the ordering of the swordmasters really, considering how mostly interchangeable they are.

By the way, I suggest we unban Smash and let him into this topic. Also call in Ether and Snowy as well. The amount of popcorn we can get from this would be enough that if I invited every third world child into my house and showed them the argument, they would be so stuffed with popcorn that they would never worry about being hungry again. No, don't thank me. It's just my benevolent nature.

[dondon151]

About Mia's perfomance, I'll just post this as a refresher course:

That quote is back from 2009, in an era where it didn't matter if we 10 turned or 5 turned the same map because both were within BEXP limits.

Anyway, though, it's pretty clear that ranking characters in this game is highly contingent on availability because of the existence of BEXP.

Edited July 20, 2011 by dondon151

[Dark Sage]

That's true. I should've taken that into account.

Availability is more important here than on other lists but I don't think Soren does enough with his availability to make that much of a point against Mia.

[Life]

She gets a grand total of 400 BEXP in Chapter 8, or 300 if she gained a level and then she gets the same as everyone else. Here's a thought. How about estimating what level Soren might be by the end of Chapter 7 and then give HIM 400 BEXP and see how he does with it. If it's enough to be better than Mia with it, I might change my mind.

Ok.

Soren will be sitting at around 5~6 after Chapter 7 so why don't we say 6/0? 400 BExp takes him up to to 10/0 exactly (assuming that Soren was at level 6.00).

So what does Soren do when he's now sitting at level 10? Rather than 8~9 Mag, he's now got 11~12. 14 Mt with Fire along with 9 AS means that he now ORKOs stuff like Archers and Myrmidons (aside from the Iron Bow archer but a Str proc includes that guy) and is just shy of ORKOing the Knights. If Soren's got 12 Mag, he also 2HKOs every Cav minus the Level 10 one. He's also 2RKOing the Mages due to now doubling them and his performance doesn't change when facing the Fighters and Soldiers (2RKO with the double).

So yeah. That 400 BExp actually does do quite a number on Soren.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Kitty Admiral

[Radiant Dragon]

Just out of curiosity: What level does Soren proc strength on Fixed Mode, on average?

[Life]

With the Fighter Band equipped from Level 1? Level 11. But it depends who he fights.

[Dark Sage]

Ok.

Soren will be sitting at around 5~6 after Chapter 7 so why don't we say 6/0? 400 BExp takes him up to to 10/0 exactly (assuming that Soren was at level 6.00).

So what does Soren do when he's now sitting at level 10? Rather than 8~9 Mag, he's now got 11~12. 14 Mt with Fire along with 9 AS means that he now ORKOs stuff like Archers and Myrmidons (aside from the Iron Bow archer but a Str proc includes that guy) and is just shy of ORKOing the Knights. If Soren's got 12 Mag, he also 2HKOs every Cav minus the Level 10 one. He's also 2RKOing the Mages due to now doubling them and his performance doesn't change when facing the Fighters and Soldiers (2RKO with the double).

So yeah. That 400 BExp actually does do quite a number on Soren.

Wow. Sounds excellent. Depending on how much weight we put on Mia's EP and how much it costs Mia to take a skill, I think that might be enough to make him stay over Mia.

But does 9 AS really double Myrms?

[Life]

Wow. Sounds excellent. Depending on how much weight we put on Mia's EP and how much it costs Mia to take a skill, I think that might be enough to make him stay over Mia.

But does 9 AS really double Myrms?

In that chapter? Yes. Highest Myrm AS I saw was 5 AS.

[Dark Sage]

Guess enemies really do fail even harder than they do in FE7/FE8.

[Florete]

Ok.

Soren will be sitting at around 5~6 after Chapter 7 so why don't we say 6/0? 400 BExp takes him up to to 10/0 exactly (assuming that Soren was at level 6.00).

Considering he starts at level 1 and can have problems just taking kills, 5-6 after Ch 7 seems high to me.

[Life]

Considering he starts at level 1 and can have problems just taking kills, 5-6 after Ch 7 seems high to me.

Ike      10.68  |31|14| 5| 8|10| 7| 8| 5| Seraph Robe
Titania   4.36  |35|15| 5|15|15|14|12| 9|
Boyd      7.30  |34|10| 0| 6|10| 6| 7| 2| Speedwing
Oscar     9.03  |31| 9| 1| 9|11| 8| 9| 3|
Shinon    2.14  |33|10| 6|15|14|10|10| 6|
Gatrie   12.09  |33|14| 0| 8| 6| 5|15| 0|
Soren     5.76  |18| 1| 8|10| 9| 6| 3|10|
Rhys      6.67  |23| 0|12| 9| 7| 8| 2|14|
Mia       6.73  Base

I don't considering that I could have shoved another kill down Soren's throat in Chapter 6 if I was better at this game.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Kitty Admiral

[aku chi]

You are missing the point. He was claiming that giving Mia the forge was being generous to her, implying that she shouldn't get a forge, but it's ok for Soren to get one, which is such a crime to the English language, I am surprised he hasn't been convicted yet.

One should exercise caution when drawing implications. When discussing Mia's performance in C17-1, I assumed she would be at level 20/2 and have a Steel Sword forge for her exclusive use. I included a parenthetical comment to indicate that these assumptions were generous, in my mind. In other words, that I was not "sand-bagging" Mia as you like to claim. I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that I implied that Mia shouldn't get a Steel Sword forge by C17-1: I assumed it in my analysis. Nevertheless, I don't think a Steel Sword forge is necessarily guaranteed for Mia by 17-1. At this point, we've only had 4 Steel forging opportunities. It isn't guaranteed that Mia is one of our 4 best candidates for a Steel forge. A Thunder forge is more expensive in monetary terms, as you point out, but it has less competition than than a Steel Sword forge, because it can be forged in C13, for instance, after we have already had 5 Iron forge opportunities. One could even argue that Soren is hurt less by the lack of a forge than Mia, but I won't bother. I was (and remain) more than willing to assume that both Mia and Soren would have their prefered forge by C17-1, making your ire inexplicable.

I am not denying the fact that Soren has better offense than Mia, but I am definitely questioning his ability to use it. He's normally 2HKO'd by most enemies and his durability doesn't start picking up until A Ike. Of course we're also ignoring the advantages of how good Mia is with Vantage/Adept or Vantage/Guard, both of which fix her defensive problems and in the former option, also fixes any attack problems as well.

Mia can take a low-demand skill (Guard) to improve her durability a little. That's nice. She can also take high-demand skills (Wrath or Adept) to improve both her offense and defense. She can put them to decent use, but they have a large opportunity cost: many other units would like Adept or Wrath. Some make better use of those skills. (BTW, Adept hardly "fixes any attack problems", considering it cannot be relied upon to activate. It helps - but it's no silver bullet.) But Mia has bigger problems that are unsolveable. She's locked to 1-range, unless we give her the Sonic Sword - which is in high demand and she doesn't use particularly well. This limits the value of Mia's enemy phase substantially. Soren's offense is all 1-2 range, which even improves his durability by deterring 2-range attackers that jump at the opportunity to attack Mia. Mia also has a mediocre 6/7 move and is a poor candidate to be ferried, limiting her positive influence if we play efficiently. While Soren suffers from even worse movement, he can contribute via staff utility and siege magic despite his poor mobility.

She gets a grand total of 400 BEXP in Chapter 8, or 300 if she gained a level and then she gets the same as everyone else. Here's a thought. How about estimating what level Soren might be by the end of Chapter 7 and then give HIM 400 BEXP and see how he does with it. If it's enough to be better than Mia with it, I might change my mind.

You won't get any argument from me that Mia can be more valuable than Soren in chapters 9 and 12. But if we're talking about long term use, you might as well give them both more Bexp if you plan to use them. 800-1000 Bexp total before C17-1 sounds like a reasonable amount. Mia wants a large chunk of that before C12 so that she can double Ravens.

[Dark Sage]

One should exercise caution when drawing implications. When discussing Mia's performance in C17-1, I assumed she would be at level 20/2 and have a Steel Sword forge for her exclusive use. I included a parenthetical comment to indicate that these assumptions were generous, in my mind. In other words, that I was not "sand-bagging" Mia as you like to claim. I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that I implied that Mia shouldn't get a Steel Sword forge by C17-1: I assumed it in my analysis. Nevertheless, I don't think a Steel Sword forge is necessarily guaranteed for Mia by 17-1. At this point, we've only had 4 Steel forging opportunities. It isn't guaranteed that Mia is one of our 4 best candidates for a Steel forge. A Thunder forge is more expensive in monetary terms, as you point out, but it has less competition than than a Steel Sword forge, because it can be forged in C13, for instance, after we have already had 5 Iron forge opportunities. One could even argue that Soren is hurt less by the lack of a forge than Mia, but I won't bother. I was (and remain) more than willing to assume that both Mia and Soren would have their prefered forge by C17-1, making your ire inexplicable.

I honestly don't get how you CAN'T see why I was annoyed by your statement about the forge being "generous." When most people say something is "generous", it means that this normally wouldn't happen or that they shouldn't get such a resource. Yojinbo used to do that all the time, so of course I'd assume you were doing what he was doing (though he was far more extreme, saying that Jill getting kills was being "generous").

Anyway I actually think Mia's forge arguably benefits the team more since you can trade it out to other sword users and it's cheaper than Soren's forge. Soren's forge has less "competition", but making the forge means that the only people who really have access to the forge would be Tormod, Ilyana, and Calill (and lol Bastian I guess), who aren't guaranteed to be in play.

Mia can take a low-demand skill (Guard) to improve her durability a little. That's nice. She can also take high-demand skills (Wrath or Adept) to improve both her offense and defense. She can put them to decent use, but they have a large opportunity cost: many other units would like Adept or Wrath. Some make better use of those skills. (BTW, Adept hardly "fixes any attack problems", considering it cannot be relied upon to activate. It helps - but it's no silver bullet.) But Mia has bigger problems that are unsolveable. She's locked to 1-range, unless we give her the Sonic Sword - which is in high demand and she doesn't use particularly well. This limits the value of Mia's enemy phase substantially. Soren's offense is all 1-2 range, which even improves his durability by deterring 2-range attackers that jump at the opportunity to attack Mia. Mia also has a mediocre 6/7 move and is a poor candidate to be ferried, limiting her positive influence if we play efficiently. While Soren suffers from even worse movement, he can contribute via staff utility and siege magic despite his poor mobility.

Name one person who gets the same benefit from Adept that Mia does. I'm genuinely curious.

You won't get any argument from me that Mia can be more valuable than Soren in chapters 9 and 12. But if we're talking about long term use, you might as well give them both more Bexp if you plan to use them. 800-1000 Bexp total before C17-1 sounds like a reasonable amount. Mia wants a large chunk of that before C12 so that she can double Ravens.

That's another benefit that Mia can provide that Soren can't.

But anyway, I'm accepting Soren>Mia, at least for now.

[aku chi]

I honestly don't get how you CAN'T see why I was annoyed by your statement about the forge being "generous." When most people say something is "generous", it means that this normally wouldn't happen or that they shouldn't get such a resource. Yojinbo used to do that all the time, so of course I'd assume you were doing what he was doing (though he was far more extreme, saying that Jill getting kills was being "generous").

I'm sorry for any confusion my use of the word "generous" caused. Considering I was arguing against Mia, I wanted to make sure I was being suitably generous in the comparison - to avoid the very criticisms you levelled against me.

Name one person who gets the same benefit from Adept that Mia does. I'm genuinely curious.

I'll name two: Marcia and Titania.

[Soren37]

Quick question. Why is Muarim over top of Neph? Is it because of the Laguz Band and that his base stats are godly?

[aku chi]

Quick question. Why is Muarim over top of Neph? Is it because of the Laguz Band and that his base stats are godly?

I would think 9 mov + shove utility are more important than Demi Band Muarim's temporary 1-range combat leads over Nephenee.

Edit: But it's not at all obvious which unit is more valuable, so a more detailed comparison might be fruitful.

Edited August 3, 2011 by aku chi

[Dark Sage]

Muarim's also pretty doritos for Smite as well, so he can also contribute for some quick clears late in the game.

@Adept: I'll give you that Marcia can get the same benefit from Adept that Mia gets but Titania?