Colonel M Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Wait no fucking mention of Nino in the Top 30 yet Marcus makes it on here? What a botched up pile of shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Alright, this is it. Two more units. Everyone knows which they are, the only question left to ask is: which one of them is going to win? And the number two of the Top 30 best units of all time is... not in this spoiler 2. Seth, from FE8 How do you describe Seth without repeating yourself? I don't know. Seth has every good quality from the below units, except perhaps the flying part, and then some more. For one last time, we have a GBA Paladin, which means 8 movement, more WTC than most units (though he lacks axes), and the ability to ferry units around. This is backed up by the best availability in the game, beating even Eirika since she's not on Ephraim route, and then also the best combat in the game. With "pretty good" bases (ridiculous for his join time, of course) and an A in both lances and swords, Seth can take down the most cheesy mooks with just Javelins, and the strongest bosses with a wide arsenal of more valuable weapons, most notably that Silver Lance he joins with. For the most part, FE7 Marcus had this in the bag too. What makes Seth so ridiculous is that he has some of the best growths in the game on top of it all. 90% HP, 50% Str, 45% Skl, 45% Spd, 40% Def, 30% Res and 25% Luk keeps him going all game long as long as he gets enough bosskills, and in an efficient playthrough it's pretty much impossible not to give him bosskills. Early on he's a tank and ORKO (often OHKO) machine because of his good bases, but he doesn't actually slow down one bit in any way. Wherever you move Seth, he leaves a path of destruction, which makes him the best unit for clearing the way to the boss (and the boss himself), or just taking out a portion of a rout map by himself. Seth is so strong that if you use him to his full potential, you pretty much have no room to train anything else whatsoever. And this is fine for most maps, because there are plenty of units in this game that can function just fine at base level, or little EXP. Duessel, Cormag, Gerik, Saleh, etc. This style of play generally makes it desirable to make Seth even more broken by loading stat boosters on him, since he will doing almost all the fighting. Luckily, FE8 gives you an Angelic Robe AND a Dracoshield pretty early, minimizing Seth's *gasp* death chances. One more thing I want to mention about Seth is that he gets to abuse 3x Mt slayer weapons, unlike for example FE7 Marcus or FE9 Titania. And unlike FE6 Marcus, he gets to have good accuracy with them. So whenever not even Silver or Killer weapons do the trick, Seth has access to an extra trick up his sleeve. Why is he not #1, then? He dominates the whole game, right? Well, he definitely does that, but he has some very very tiny flaws. For one, there are chapters where he is not the most important unit, or not by far. Ch7 comes to mind, where it's Vanessa who transports him and Eirika over the river. Or just Eirika if she's strong enough, or any combat unit that can handle that place. Then there's the desert chapter where he is limited on where to go, and Ch20 which is like 70% forest, so he'll likely take a backseat to either fliers or Warpers. It seem almost unfair to "penalize" a unit for extremely minor things like this, but that's what it comes down to when you are this close to the top! That leaves us with one more unit, and that unit is none other than... 1. Sigurd, from FE4 Sigurd isn't just a unit in FE4. Sigurd is FE4, at least for the first generation (but as I said, I count that as a whole game simply because otherwise you get Fin as best unit). The story and the gameplay is all about Sigurd, everyone else is simply a side effect. To beat the six chapters he appears in, you need nothing but Sigurd to win...and he'll do it quite efficiently, too. This is his main difference with Seth, who is often restricted by chapter win conditions that require more than just him. Getting Eirika to the throne, or routing an entire map, that's something he plays a great part in, but he's never the whole picture. Sigurd, however, defines how fast you complete chapters. He is kind of like Celice in that sense, including the part where every droppable item pretty much falls into his hands through the natural flow of things, except he doesn't have to promote. He starts out prepromoted (I snicker every time young Oifaye goes "You can't promote. Leave.", he's so rude) and, as some people say it, he's his own Jeigan. Except he's not a Paladin and his growths are nothing like Jeigan's. 50% Str, 50% Skl, 40% Def, and my favourite, 110% HP. Thanks Holy blood! 30% Spd is a bummer, but once again, we're playing FE4. Sigurd is using swords and his base Spd is sufficient to double 90% already, so all he needs is some Spd procs and he'll take care even of those "fast" Swordsmen. The fact that promoted units don't get an EXP cut in this game allows Sigurd's level to skyrocket until he hits that soft ceiling (15 levels above whatever you kill, and you actually stop gaining EXP, lol). While Sigurd's * in swords does not give him 5% hit/crt like you might want it to, it does allow him to use every sword in the game, including the Prologue Silver Sword. Now, a lot of the times people make the mistake of assuming that weapons certain people receive through events is theirs (Jamka's Killer Bow, Ayra's Hero Sword), but for Sigurd, there isn't even any possible competition* at first. Even when people who have the required A in swords join, they're always behind him by miles in everything (Ayra can't overkill an enemy with 23890320 Astra hits if Sigurd gets there first). Sigurd taking out enemies faster does so many things for you at once, you should be wondering why you'd do it with anyone else. First off, it gets him delicious EXP, so he gains more stats and kills things even more. Second, it gets enemies out of his way really quickly (since he's so strong), which means he can move his full movement next turn and seize earlier. Third, it buils up kills on the weapon he is using, which at some point allows him to start critting things. * Ethlin should be in the kitchen and not on the battlefield As you can see, Sigurd's growing is kind of an infinite circle of positive feedback. He's kind of like a can of pringles that you don't even need to pop, he'll do it for you. If that all isn't amazing enough, Sigurd also gets a personal legendary weapon in Ch5 that happens to be pretty much forged for beating the last few "difficult" bosses. It's the same one Celice gets: +20 Res, +10 Skl, and +10 Spd, and it's just as ridiculous. My favourite part of it is that it allows you to ignore those annoying Sleep Staff priests when marching through the desert. Speaking of that...Sigurd's desert has a convenient road paved through it, unlike Seth's (though Seth can still contribute on the border, he's just limited on where to go). And even though there are some units that can cross through the actual desert faster than Sigurd (I can only think of Fury but maybe the foot units beat him too), the chapter still requires Sigurd to reach the end for it to matter. The lack of competition for Sigurd's dominance is also a big factor in why he is #1. To put it in perspective, let's take FE6 Roy. Now imagine if he had the class and base stats of Marcus, with the weapon levels of Percival, the EXP gain of Dieck, while his growths are...well, no one in FE6 comes close except Karel and Fa, but just imagine they are awesome! Also, he can repair his amazing weapons an infinite amount of times. That is what Sigurd is, sort of. A quick word on a few units you or I might have expected to be on there, but missed out for some reason or another. In no particular order. Clarine (FE6) and Priscilla (FE7): To be perfectly honest, they slipped my mind when I was making the list, and when I was reminded of them I was kind of too far to put them on there. I think it's very arguable on whether they should have been there to begin with, but I should have considered them. Janaff and Ulki (FE10): Were going to be on there at first, but I scrapped them in favor of some other units that I forgot initially (Asvel, for example). While they are absolute beasts (heh), especially in 0% growths, I found it hard to justify having them around considering how late they join, especially since 3-7 and 4-E already don't count for much. Barst (FE11): He's a pro, and probably better than Sedgar/Wolf in efficiency, but I really wanted to give those two a mention for "breaking the game" in a way that is now no longer needed. This wasn't just a top 30 of best units of all time, it was also a trip down nostalgia lane. It did say OF ALL TIME, didn't it? Marcus (FE6): He's just really bad compared to actual growth units in all but the very fastest FE6 playthroughs, and even then he's just a rescuebot later on. Oscar (FE9): Good unit, but it's FE9, the easiest game ever made. With the amount of BEXP you get, you can bump almost anyone to his level. Raven (FE7): He was on my potential list, and even though I really like him as a unit despite him being blown off by several people simply because he doesn't have a horse, he just didn't cut it. Competition is just so tight. Lex (FE4): Was there for a long time but I threw him out simply because he is actually almost useless compared to Sigurd. If he had his Hero Axe in Prologue this would be different, but as it is he's only actually great for 4 whole chapters, and even getting the Hero Axe costs turns. So in the end, I considered him too iffy. Oifaye (FE4): I think Oifaye is really underrated and wanted to include him just because of how much he helped me in my 0% growths playthrough, but my list was overblown with FE4 as it is. I didn't try to keep all games equal or anything but when you have trouble justifying Sety, Shannan, and Aless...hell, when you have trouble justifying Levin!Arthur for christ's sake, you know competition is too tight. Duessel (FE8): Yeah, kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel of awesome now. Just too little availability. Nailah (FE10): ^ Thanks to everyone who read the whole thing, or even part of it. It was a lot of fun to write, which was really the main point. For those who didn't notice yet, there's a convenient index in the OP so you can reread it whenever you feel like it. And feel free to make your own lists and we'll see if we can churn out something great. I know for a fact there will be a lot of Alanceless lists... Edited January 4, 2012 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks to everyone who read the whole thing, You're welcome. It was worth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) i was almost on this list best thread on the FE boards, conglaturations Edited January 3, 2012 by Mercenary Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) As we go progressively faster through FE6, we discover that Clarine gets progressively worse. We can probably add Saul and Niime to the group of staffbots that Mekkah had halfway down the list. The best contender against Alance for their slot is, in my opinion, FE10 Sothe. Anyway Mekkah, are you going to go over your thoughts on possible revisions that came up after you finalized the list? Edited January 3, 2012 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As we go progressively faster through FE6, we discover that Clarine gets progressively worse. If only there was bexp. Staffbots get so screwed in exp gains when you go fast. But a 20/1 Clarine in chapter 14x is just so hilariously fun. Though that's really slow if she can get to 20 by then. Then there is Aircalibur on a mountain against an army of wyverns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Indeed, it was a good read. Killer Silver/Hero is just so ridiculous. Even though on the last draft I did he refused to kill Langobalt with a 51 kill Hero Sword and cost me like 5 turns to get Ayra over to do it for him with the 70+kill Silver he sold her for some rings, fuck you, Big Shield and RNG in general>| //rantrantrantfuckfe4rngrant Edited January 3, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaketheGr3at Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I enjoyed reading it immensely, and check everyday to see the new character you talked about, it was worth reading and I'm glad you wrote it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Mekka, you made a mistake, you get another character with A swords in Prologue: Ethlin. I don't know if effective weaponry is really worth mentioning for Sseth when his strength is so good. Moreof note is his extremely competitive defense and resistance, better than any other unit except Duessel andGilliam, as well as Audhulma access to boost it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Mekka, you made a mistake, you get another character with A swords in Prologue: Ethlin. And better yet she's on a horse! I'm assuming you don't mean her as a serious competitor for it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Good read, now do top ten worst units :D But in all SRSness, I enjoyed this in its entirety and it was a fun read, love the climatic Sigurd vs Seth. Seth: Why didn't I win Sigurd: You're a ginger Seth: Well you're on fire Sigurd: Am not *chapter 5 finishes* Sigurd: Oh **** And then Seth became number 1. So how high would Fin have been if you did take the gens in different account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 At that point, he might as well have counted Fin's contributions in FE5 as well. I'm glad he counted Gen 1 and 2 separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 TBH I always thought Fin was just as much as a player as Fergus in FE5, but WE I've come to the conclusion that I'm wrong in most FE debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Might be because Fin has to build up a sword rank indoors or something while Ferg is swords anyway with a ton of crit. Even so I think Fin should've at least been in that "Almost There" spoiler. Edited January 4, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) You know, if you did take CHARACTER'S contributions (as opposed to units') into account, there would have been some interesting things to see. Fin, Marcus, Ike, Titania, etc. would have a lot to their names between their two (or arguably three for Fin) games in which they're awesome. I'm sure there would be some hilarity with Archanea characters, too. Existing in five (and arguably even six) games is just ridiculous. I won't lie, compared to the detail you put into Sigurd's, Seth's review sounded kinda lame... but being number one deserves a wall of praise, I guess. Just a little sad to see Seth sort of skipped over for Sigurd when the fight was really pretty close, it seemed. Edited January 4, 2012 by Rewjeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Seth is one of the longer reviews. There's just not as much to say about him. Note that he did get some attention even in Sigurd's review :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There's not a whole lot you can say about Seth other than "HEY LOOK AT HOW BADLY HE RAPES EVERYONE" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You know, if you did take CHARACTER'S contributions (as opposed to units') into account, there would have been some interesting things to see. Fin, Marcus, Ike, Titania, etc. would have a lot to their names between their two (or arguably three for Fin) games in which they're awesome. I'm sure there would be some hilarity with Archanea characters, too. Existing in five (and arguably even six) games is just ridiculous. Nobody could have beaten Catria then! Tahaha! (read: I like this idea now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Then Anna would beat all. she's appeared in every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 She doesn't do anything though. Negative utility. Leaf wins for being in FE1, FE3, FE4, FE5 and FE12 imo. He's just called Rody in some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (Sarcasm) She literally doesn't do anything, but the tutorial/runs secret shops. As for my reaction- Wow, Marcus, Titania, and Seth got on this list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 She doesn't do anything though. Negative utility. Leaf wins for being in FE1, FE3, FE4, FE5 and FE12 imo. He's just called Rody in some of them. Rody's not in FE1, is he? Anyway, great read. I was a little surprised to see Seth at 2, but reading over both, it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Rody isn't in FE1. He debuted in 3. And Catria being in 1/2/3/11/12 > Leaf being in 3/4/5/12, easily, because she's Catria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Palla too~ Fuck Est she's shit even if she spans all of the FEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Leaf is in FE1. His name is just Marth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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