FE13: A Faustian Bargain?

[Arch]

Disclaimer: The point of this writing is not to explicitly condemn the approach IS is taking, hate on the "mainstream," hate on casual gamers, or anything of the sort. Figured I'd add this as a disclaimer, since a few people didn't really seem to get that it's just an analysis of the new direction and a little food-for-discussion.

It may be too soon to tell, but from what we've seen so far "Fire Emblem: Awakening" has all the markings of a grand bargain. What I mean is ultimately a trade-off: Fire Emblem selling some of its soul, trading some uniqueness, charm and identity, in exchange for a more mainstream appeal and commercial success.

Just one look at the game's art-style gives off an instant "typical anime" vibe. Fire Emblem has always had a very unique art-style; a graphical style that is distinctly "Fire Emblem." From the earliest days to the GBA-era, the Tellius games and the even DS remakes, the series has always possessed a rather unique look, something distinct, something unique, something I'd call "charming." FE13, however, has taken a much more mainstream, stereotypical anime look. Compare the look of characters like Linde to Krom's sister, Liz. It doesn't look like Fire Emblem anymore, it looks like your generic anime (at least to me).

From what we've seen of the gameplay, it also looks like a leap towards the mainstream of RPGs. What especially rubs me this way is what we've seen of the skills system: all these little buff skills (like the HP+5 and small crit buff skill we've seen) and the freedom to swap them out at will makes the system feel more like something out of Final Fantasy, something lifted straight out of a more "mainstream" series. We've got this new duo-attack system copied from Super Robot Taisen (complete with the generic anime game battle cut-ins). In addition we've got DLC, a gravy train for every company seeking to milk as much money as they can from their games. Will Intelligent Systems pull it off? Maybe. But, in a series like Fire Emblem, there doesn't seem like much of a reason for DLC other than following the trend (and snatching up some internet buzz). The gameplay seems to be headed into a more mainstream approach, catering to something a broader audience expects rather than what is entirely "Fire Emblem."

When I think of the series, I think of two things: charm and uniqueness. Fire Emblem is different. It's got this very distinct feel about it, that's one of its most attractive components. It's got the standard tactical RPG formula, but does it in a way that's distinctly, well, "Fire Emblem." This uniqueness is charming, when you play a Fire Emblem game there's no mistake that it's Fire Emblem. When I watch the trailers for this game it just doesn't look and feel like Fire Emblem anymore (to me, at least). It could be easily mistaken for something else entirely.

I understand, of course, why this the direction Fire Emblem is taking. The folks at Intelligent Systems are looking to expand Fire Emblem's audience after the series flopped internationally (sales took a nose-dive after FE8). It's purely strategic. This leap towards the mainstream of RPGs is an appeal to the audience that buys mainstream RPGs like Final Fantasy, which vastly outsell Fire Emblem. I'd surmise that it's an overall attempt at something of a series reboot: a lurch towards mainstream appeal, Nintendo giving the new game some spotlight, and ultimately "Fire Emblem: Awakening" catching fire internationally and setting the series back on a growing trend.

Fire Emblem certainly looks to be running up to the mainstream with a big ol' hug, but only time will tell if the mainstream hugs back. What do you think? Can uniqueness and charm only go so far? Is it time for Fire Emblem to come out of its shell? Does the series need a more mainstream approach to expand the audience? Could this potentially backfire? Do you personally like this new approach? I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of the community.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Arch

[Lord Raven]

I disagree, it still feels like Fire Emblem to me.

Also, the NES, SNES, GBA/Gamecube/Wii, and the DS titles have all had completely different art styles. In fact, FE4 and 5 themselves were different. This new one took some warming up to, to be honest, but it feels Fire Emblem-like to me and I'm starting to like them a bit more.

EDIT: And the way the axes are orientated is enough of a clue that it isn't FFT. Pretty obvious clue. And you see the way the movement/attack range thing still pops up? That's definitely not in Final Fantasy Tactics. -_-

Edited January 4, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Thor Odinson]

On 1/3/12, at 10:51 PM, Lumi wrote:

> I like the drawing style TBH

It's the designs

I mean you really can't penalise an artist

for having a particular style

it's pretty hard to shift styles

in a short period of time

...I tried

.___.

That being said, the designs themselves feel a little, overall...less making sense. While a lot of the FE outfits had miniskirts and the such, the outfits weren't so outlandish, and the most "ridiculous" of such designs are just a little extra trim in armour and a bit of weirdly coloured hair. But some of the stuff, I feel, are getting a little too...well, standard J-RPG ish.

Except Sumia's armour. I fucking love her armour.

But I don't think the art style itself should be penalised. It's nice art. I'm not having any issues with the anatomy, the colouring is nice, and the lines are clean. That's more than FE4 and earlier art can claim to (even some FE5's stuff, which I generally am a fan of despite the tiny tiny waist for women, I've noticed serious anatomy issues in although that was a rare case), and in case of FE11's Masamune OAs, the anatomy is horrendous and I don't want that back again. Ingame art is good though.

As for the game itself, I don't really mind if it's enjoyable. I guess we'll see when the time comes, so I'll stay neutral on issues not regarding artwork.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[The Blind Archer]

Also, the NES, SNES, GBA/Gamecube/Wii, and the DS titles have all had completely different art styles.

I only partially agree with this. Your approach, I assume, is coming more from the execution standpoint due to console limitations/etc. Character design is part of an art style, and that is something that, for the most part, has stayed consistent throughout the Fire Emblem franchise. Armor looked like actual suits of armor you'd see in medieval Europe, hair wasn't sticking out every which way, and headgear made sense (i.e., helmets, bandanas, circlets). If nothing else, the series has had that consistency going for it, barring obvious exceptions. The designs have been more subdued and simple, and honestly the series was a breath of fresh air compared to most other RPGs that come from the other side of the Pacific. One glance at Awakening, and you can see that IS has thrown that approach out the window. Honestly, I think the characters shown so far would be more at home in a Final Fantasy or Soul Calibur title by comparison, with Buttons alone doing most of the inverting.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

Edited January 4, 2012 by The Blind Archer

[Thor Odinson]

For the record, I can do FE-style designing and Final Fantasy style designing equally well, but fuck if I had to change to another way of drawing things. That'd take ages for the change to take place.

While I have had many stylistic changes throughout all these years, Not one of them just happened instantly. But designing something in different styles? That can be easily done if the artist in name is a versatile enough designer. The artist's personal style will show through in each one of his or her artworks regardless of style, unless the person has multiple styles in to begin with.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Refa]

It may be too soon to tell, but from what we've seen so far "Fire Emblem: Awakening" has all the markings of a deal with the devil. What I mean is ultimately a trade-off: Fire Emblem selling some of its soul, its uniqueness, charm and identity, in exchange for a more mainstream appeal.

Sure, I agree with this.

Just one look at the game's art-style gives off an instant "mainstream" vibe. Fire Emblem has always had a very unique art-style; a look that is distinctly "Fire Emblem." From the earliest days to the GBA-era, the Tellius games and the DS remakes, the series has always possessed a rather unique look, something distinct, something unique, something charming. FE13, however, has taken a much more mainstream, stereotypical anime look. Compare the look of characters like Linde to Krom's sister, Liz. It doesn't look like Fire Emblem anymore, it looks like your general anime.

I definetely see your point here too.

From what we've seen of the gameplay, it also looks like a leap towards the mainstream of RPGs. What especially rubs me this way is what we've seen of the skills system: all these little buff skills (like HP+5) and the freedom to swap them out at will makes the system feel more like something out of Final Fantasy, something right out of the mainstream.

Come on, FE10 did EXACTLY this. You're being more than a little unfair here.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Refa

[Mousefire]

Can't Fire Emblem experiment? I mean, we have FE2 and FE4. Why can't we have another game change the formula up?

[Refa]

Can't Fire Emblem experiment? I mean, we have FE2 and FE4. Why can't we have another game change the formula up?

We're not going to know if these changes make the game as innovative as FE6 (i.e not much at all) or FE4 until the game comes out.

[Teapot]

Personally, I'm looking forward to it. Apprehensively.

It could either do it or make it flop. Whatever it was doing before obviously didn't work, so they're trying something that hopefully will. I dunno. It looks like Persona mashed with FF, a bit, and I think it's really a bit too early to pass judgment. It's clearly not going to be the exact FE we all know and love, but really, they don't have much more to lose at this point. Again, it could go either way.

I've been with the series for the art, mainly, and I'm kind of glad they're taking a different design approach. Also, to be blasphemously honest, I've never actually been very interested in FE's gameplay at all. If things are any better in the new game, maybe I might even come to like actually playing the series for once.

Yes, maybe FE's headed toward being a more mainstream series, but really, if that's what sells, then you can expect them to do more of it. Unfortunately, once that happens, there's really nothing we can do about it. Just hold on, throw out a safety line, and prepare for the worst.

[Crimson Red]

I'm looking forward to it. I'm not afraid of change if it's for the better. There's also nothing wrong with adapting some mainstream qualities if they are good qualities, provided that the game is still unique--and FE still is unique. Aside from being in a series with few entries, it has a vast array of characters, lots of things carried... down? or up? from game to game (i.e. elements from past games are moved onto newer games, with certain archetypes, skills, characteristics, etc) and well, personally, as long as the game has the Fire Emblem main theme, it's a Fire Emblem game to me. XD

Of course I'm just a total sucker for a new FE game so I'm biased, plus I don't believe in always having to form a dissent opinion just to be rebellious and whatnot XD

[Mousefire]

I just realized something. What Did FE6 do? It simplified it and made it more mainstream. I'd say FE7 pushed it even further in that direction. And those games? They're generally heralded as great games. So yeah, this would be the second time they've made a pact with the mainstream "devil".

[General Banzai]

You're saying that FE13 is the first game in the series to develop an anime art style?

Wasn't the art for FESD was done by Masamune Shirow?

Furthermore, pretty much everything you said in defense of the old games is that they have a "uniqueness" and a "charm" which you can't define. That's not compelling evidence.

I just realized something. What Did FE6 do? It simplified it and made it more mainstream. I'd say FE7 pushed it even further in that direction. And those games? They're generally heralded as great games. So yeah, this would be the second time they've made a pact with the mainstream "devil".

They're also generally heralded as a step down from FE4 and FE5 :V

Edited January 4, 2012 by General Banzai

[dondon151]

I think most people are too preoccupied with the notion of having to defy the mainstream.

If it's good and fun, then that's that.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

glad to see the only person being an hipster about this idea is OP.

FE artstyle has always been "generic style of the era of anime that it was made in".

that and the game seems to be innovating alot of different ideas in one game, which considering how japan has been getting fucked by western company's due to fearing change for the most part(capcom for example) i support change in not only japan's side of the gaming world, but everywhere on earth.

[grandjackal]

Regardless of how one feels about the art style and all that, FE needed to experiment, it needed to spice things up a little. The latest games, much as I think they're good, were way too safe and straight cold. Hell, even though I would agree that FE12 is about as challenging as a game it gets, I still don't like it simply because it allowed no freedom and you were going to straight do the same thing every time since the game essentially gave you no choice. I don't care if FE13 ends up imba as hell, it's at least gonna be a blast doing so.

As for the art design, the series's art design has been keeping an anime style since FE3. Let's just be happy that this game's art doesn't look cheap. I happen to like the style this game's packing.

As for animations in-game, I feel that FE has shown it's capable of charm be it n realistic animations or stylish. The only game I feel that failed to have charm was FE10's animations. It tried to do both, and it was silly.

[Strawman]

I don't really mind it and I think it makes sense almost to the point of it being a necessary change. I think to the vast majority of gamers FE just looks really boring, which I understand because there really isn't much going on most of the time. I think with all those skills it gives the player more to change and add to the characters to make the game more interesting. And so far the battle system looks like characters don't just hit the opponent once, they hit them multiple times to make battle have more action than FE usually has.

I think it looks pretty fun to be honest. And some of the characters have really awesome designs. I really like Fred's armor to be specific.

[Soviet Gregor]

It's a franchise. Money is made off of it with no regard to the status or standards that Fire Emblem has been known for. You're on point with pretty much everything. They will change things that players of the series might not like if it can get them another "ten thousand sales". Looking at this new game, I'm just expecting "just some medieval age game with tactics". I wouldn't say it could be confused for an FFT game, but if you can say it can be seen as an FFT, that shows something. As for the quality of the series- I've played 7~10 before 2~6. 7~10 were just games to me. Played them, had fun. That's it. 2~6 (Well, more 2~5) I LIVED. The complexity of the stories and the characters are FUCKING AMAZING. Art? Mainstream is starting bother me. I'm tired of the generic anime look. Usually, I can get past art styles and that's ONLY if the story and characters are worth it. E.g. Gundam, but I'm not going to go off now. Hard not to bring up other things when talking about mainstreaminess.

Also, this. It's worth mentioning:

"It’s being made by and for otaku whose field of reference has never strayed from the otaku world, and with an audience that so insistently demands the same old shit over and over again, why would the otaku on the production side ever bother breaking out? The industry and the people who consume its products are stagnating together."

Quote about anime, but applicable to any industry with an audience. Especially video games.

[eclipse]

I don't care, as long as it's an interesting game, and the artwork doesn't make my eyes bleed.

[General Banzai]

It's a franchise. Money is made off of it with no regard to the status or standards that Fire Emblem has been known for. You're on point with pretty much everything. They will change things that players of the series might not like if it can get them another "ten thousand sales". Looking at this new game, I'm just expecting "just some medieval age game with tactics". I wouldn't say it could be confused for an FFT game, but if you can say it can be seen as an FFT, that shows something. As for the quality of the series- I've played 7~10 before 2~6. 7~10 were just games to me. Played them, had fun. That's it. 2~6 (Well, more 2~5) I LIVED. The complexity of the stories and the characters are FUCKING AMAZING. Art? Mainstream is starting bother me. I'm tired of the generic anime look. Usually, I can get past art styles and that's ONLY if the story and characters are worth it. E.g. Gundam, but I'm not going to go off now. Hard not to bring up other things when talking about mainstreaminess.

You got it backwards

[I.M. Gei]

I don't really mind the new artwork, or much of the new mechanics that seem to be showing up. It really looks interesting and fresh, to be honest.

[Celice]

I am eagerly awaiting a fun Fire Emblem game, that is a part of a series that has always been Fire Emblem :)

[Lord Raven]

You got it backwards

*insert quote about opinions and assholes here*

[Thor Odinson]

I think that mainstream in itself does not a bad thing make. As long as its used well and the game ends up being really fun, then there's no problem with that.

My main issue with the designs are just... I feel some of them look too impractical. Buttons. really? And a poofy skirt on a battle field? And the fighter guy's heavy chain doesn't feel right. But that could be my personal tastes. I'm of the "if you make it flashy, make it look like it works and then just add decorations" school, and prefers more realistic-looking designs, so...

Not that miniskirts are practical either. But I feel it's at least more mobile than a poofyskirt.

Of course if I said "everyone pants" I feel some of the dudes here might throw things at me. :/

[Blademaster!]

Fire Emblem has always had a very unique art-style;

As people have already pointed out, with the possible exceptions of FE6-10, FE has generally used an anime art style, especially with the early games. If anything, this is just IS going back to a style they used in the past only to bring it up to par with the modern age.

From what we've seen of the gameplay, it also looks like a leap towards the mainstream of RPGs. What especially rubs me this way is what we've seen of the skills system: all these little buff skills (like HP+5) and the freedom to swap them out at will makes the system feel more like something out of Final Fantasy, something right out of the mainstream.

I think you might be being a bit picky with that statement...

We've got this new duo-attack system lifted straight out of Super Robot Taisen (same with the generic anime battle cut-ins). The gameplay seems to be salvaging the best elements from the past 20 years, synthesizing them and simultaneously tip-toeing towards a more mainstream vibe.

Thinking of Fire Emblem I think of two things: charm and uniqueness. Fire Emblem is different, it's outside the mainstream.

Doesn't FE sell better than most SJRPG's anyway already making it mainstream in a sense? I mean, it is a Nintendo series after all.

after the series flopped internationally (sales took a nose-dive after FE8)

Flopped is a completely incorrect word to use to describe the sales of FE internationally. Sure, sales started to slightly fall, but to say they flopped is just excessive.

What do you think? Can uniqueness and charm only go so far? Is it time for a new, more mainstream approach to expand the audience? Could this backfire and disenchant the niche following Fire Emblem has attracted? Do you personally like this new approach? I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of the community.

I am personally looking forward to this game, should there be an international release. The "art direction" or whatever doesn't bother me at all, and the gameplay changes look to be pretty fun so far.

that and the game seems to be innovating alot of different ideas in one game, which considering how japan has been getting fucked by western company's due to fearing change for the most part(capcom for example) i support change in not only japan's side of the gaming world, but everywhere on earth.

If I understood this correctly, Capcom is a poor example to use for such a statement since there are currently regarded as one of the few companies in Japan trying to start to appeal towards western audiences. But at the same time, they are a company that has generally tried not to change their formulas too much out of fear of losing the fan base.

[General Banzai]

Of course if I said "everyone pants" I feel some of the dudes here might throw things at me. :/

Most everyone wore pants (except Asvel ololol) in Thracia and that turned out fine