[NOC] [Anon] [Open Set-Up] Strip Mafia - lol

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(5) Gonzou Azai - Ikakas, Stormageddon, Parseltongue, RedMage, Scumhunter X (L-1!)

(1) Stormageddon - Grape Soda

(1) Ikakas - Viking

(1) Urist McDwarf - Gonzou Azai

Not Voting (2): Bogeto Bogeto, Urist McDwarf

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to hammer. You have about 5 hours left in the day.

Gonzou Azai is at L-1!

[Refakitty³]

It looks more like Scumhunter unvoted Gonzai and revoted Gonzai. Did you not even remember who you were voting for? Gonzai should be at 5 by my count.

There are still hours left in the phase. Prims updating out votals with a proper count and time display would be nice.

Also Dwarf you have a good point on the Stripper claim. But equally so, if scum claimed Stripper, in an effort to get a town to out....yea a 1 for 1 would not really be worth it. I'm just saying that considering we have numerous players who haven't posted since that claim, that we shouldn't just commit to it, in case a counterclaim does come up. All it does is harm scum, that may be, but it's something.

Baaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

##Unvote

Back to square one

Pedit:

There's votals and time. Fine.

##Vote Gonzou

[Prims]

HAMMER SHUT UP for real

[Prims]

Night 2

(6) Gonzou Azai - Ikakas, Stormageddon, Parseltongue, RedMage, Scumhunter X, Grape Soda (Lynch!)

(1) Ikakas - Viking

(1) Urist McDwarf - Gonzou Azai

Not Voting (2): Bogeto Bogeto, Urist McDwarf

Gonzou was too busy silencing some mafiosi who were on strike to play the game and mysteriously vanished. Luckily he left his cardflip behind.

Gonzou Azai - Mafia 1-Shot Strongman - Lynched Day 2

Deadline is at 4:30 PM, Sunday the 16th (PST). Do not post during the night phase unless your role allows otherwise (it doesn't).

As far as I know, Bogeto never received my warning, and the phase ended 5 hours early so I'm going to give him a little grace. @Bogeto: If you don't want to be modkilled or force-subbed, reply to your role PM upon seeing this post.

[Prims]

As far as I know, Bogeto never received my warning, and the phase ended 5 hours early so I'm going to give him a little grace. @Bogeto: If you don't want to be modkilled or force-subbed, reply to your role PM upon seeing this post.

(Also, having a sub on stand-by for this in case the player doesn't stay in would be nice.)

[Prims]

Day 3

- Urist McDwarf cancels Scumhunting: Interrupted by Rolecop.

- Urist McDwarf has been struck down!

Urist McDwarf - Vanilla Townie - Killed Night 2

Deadline is at 4:30 PM, Wednesday the 19th (PST). With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Aizen]

Blast. At least I had my D1 Personal Victory

Maybe Town can have a Perfect Game? The cards are on the table, townies.

[Estelle]

Urist stop being an asshole god fucking damn it.

Okay so we are not lynching Ikakas today. I wish Bogeto would do something, if he had the time to post in his role PM then he can post here too. Also I hate reading Grape Soda's posts, like a lot, especially since most of his defense at me was only pointing out how I'm a hypocrite without really directly defending himself aside from the "oh yeah, I was mistaken on Magus" point. I also don't like how it took him forever to vote Gonzou, and he was the hammer so of course that would give him town cred.

But I'm going bak to ##Vote: Viking

Already stated my reasons for this and if you want to fight me I'm all for it because I feel like the most likely candidates for scum are Viking and Grape; I just don't see any other scenario UNLESS Bogeto really is last scum.

[Sham]

Sorry I missed a whole day guys, between driving 600 miles and cleaning my apartment I didn't really have any free time. I'll try to stay active from now on.

[Estelle]

where is everyone

[Refakitty³]

Hey I had a life for the 7 hours phase has been on, sorry I didn't campy PC at Day start.

Considering pretty much nothing has changed with Bogeto other than a "Hey I'm Back" post, I'd like to

##Vote Bogeto Bogeto

Parsel get over yourself sooner than later please. I post how I want and if you actually hate my posts then I can write an abridged series and address things in bullets that you specifically want me to address.

-

Viking case, I backtracked and while I haven't seen much as far as scumHUNTING, I don't think I've seen that much as far as scummy behavior.

Bogeto just, all we have is Early game content which was passable at best, and an unannounced dissapearence (which I guess means nothing but I dunno in still gut-feelin it).

I'm actually taking a look at RedMage again because I'm just having a hard time liking that d2.

Right now I'm feeling one of these three is the last of the scum in the bucket.

Hammer on Gonzou was due to time ends and being the obv wagon. As far as I was concerned, Gonzou was a neutral read, and of the primary wagons, I'd be best voting for the least town player(s). He was the most scummy of the lynch targets so I voted, because we need to try to lynch scum and get information. I'm sorry I can't find scum the way you all can.

Yea I know this post isn't too helpful, look I don't have that much right now. My reads have been terrible all game so I'm trying to reasses my abilities and actually find something (and being right would be nice).

[C. C.]

Sorry I was busy today. Family stuff and birthday stuff and Christmas stuff. In all reality I'm gonna have to ISO a few people and see. In all reality I think that scumhunter is town and other than that I'm not sure. Gonna have to check and re-iso people again. I'll get this started tonight.

[C. C.]

Frankly off the top of my head, I have iffy feelings about Grape soda and I do plan to ISO red mage and viking. Obviously also going to check bogeto but something about that tells me it's more or less uninterested town.

[Estelle]

grape it's more like i didn't like the aggressive way in which you addressed me i guess. it made me uncomfortable and you're not making it any better

and i still get weird feelings from you so i don't know how much asking you to explain things would help that???

[Estelle]

I don't think we should let Bogeto completely off of the hook but I'm kind of doubting he's scum at this point ;/

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I thought a bit more about Grape’s opinion of Magus’ play. He said Magus won’t give us much useful information because he attacked everyone indiscriminately. But he did have different intensities.

• A sustained attack on PT (for overreacting, sidestepping and active lurking) and Dwarf (for vagueness, sidestepping, slipping up and being repetitive).
• A little wagon on Bogeto for self-victimizing and being unnatural.
• Snipes at Viking, Grape, Gonzou that didn’t lead to a vote.
• Didn’t attack Storm, Gatsby or me at all, though in the latter case the day was late enough that it was Urist or bust.

As I said before, his thoughts on Magus’ interactions, and so his reason for voting Dwarf late Day 1, don’t seem to be well founded.

Furthermore, I found a possible pattern in his accusations of buddying.

Are you scum trying to foil your buddy, Grape Soda, for town credit?

Actually, Stormaggedon, do you think that Grape Soda may have answered that question for Dwarf because they are buddies and he feels threatened by that attack on Dwarf?

Between Grape Soda and Parseltongue, the only probable thing that I might be able to see is that they use reasons similar to each other and agree quite a bit. That is followed almost immediately after by Parseltongue saying he finds Grape Soda weird.

Minor buddy/buss attempt here?

Several times he tried to deflect the opponent’s argument against him, including when he was accused of buddying Grape Soda. His only attack of Grape Soda that didn’t involve him being either part of a buddy duo concerned a slip-up by Grape about his indirect question, which was quickly defeated by Grape. Possibly a stage knife attack?

Thirdly, I’ve decided Grape’s counter to PT’s vote is a cause for concern. It doesn’t gel well with his easygoing nature in the ED1 stage.

##Vote: Grape Soda

[Refakitty³]

I thought a bit more about Grape's opinion of Magus' play. He said Magus won't give us much useful information because he attacked everyone indiscriminately. But he did have different intensities.

• A sustained attack on PT (for overreacting, sidestepping and active lurking) and Dwarf (for vagueness, sidestepping, slipping up and being repetitive).
• A little wagon on Bogeto for self-victimizing and being unnatural.
• Snipes at Viking, Grape, Gonzou that didn't lead to a vote.
• Didn't attack Storm, Gatsby or me at all, though in the latter case the day was late enough that it was Urist or bust.

1. A sustained attack on PT, who was pretty much regarded as town at that point, who's flip only confirmed the inevitable that PT is extremely likely to be town. Cases were weak strawman and never evolved from that. Pretty much useless regardless of Magus' flip.
2. Magus' attacks on Bogeto were flailing attention diversion, and had no meat behind the case itself. "Answers appear to be forced" when he doesn't even know who Bogeto is means nothing, because he's assuming personality where there is nothing to assume. "Victimizing" has been Magus' gameplay all game, and I'm not sure if it was staged play or not. Weak attention diversion =possibly= useful information.
3. Snipes at Viking include a point out of a possible contradiction (weak grasping) and...well, that's about it. Once again, not very useful.
4. Snipes at Gonzou that all were just pokes here and there, and more seemed like spazzy snide remarks and retorts rather than attacks. Hell he never even specifically mentioned Gonzou except in a pile of listreads.
5. Snipes at me calling me Dwarf's buddy (Proven impossible), calling me PT's buddy (Impossible), couldn't read my posts (already addressed, his reply was weak and backed off), and associating me with other people. I guess you could consider these useful reads, except for the fact that buddying is impossible now with only 1 scum alive.
6. ***The attacks on Dwarf ended up being pretty much a 1 for 1, and were pointing to at most, one of the two being scum. This was the useful.***

So as for the reads he would be generating, maybe 2-3 players could have half-decent associations, and 1 with a strong association read. And the only reason I got that much is because I re-ISO'd him like 4 times and I'm giving him some pretty serious give.

As I said before, his thoughts on Magus' interactions, and so his reason for voting Dwarf late Day 1, don't seem to be well founded.

Furthermore, I found a possible pattern in his accusations of buddying.

Several times he tried to deflect the opponent's argument against him, including when he was accused of buddying Grape Soda. His only attack of Grape Soda that didn't involve him being either part of a buddy duo concerned a slip-up by Grape about his indirect question, which was quickly defeated by Grape. Possibly a stage knife attack?

You seem to think he was buddying me, but he also said I was buddying PT and Dwarf, so him spouting buddying reads here and there means virtually nothing because he used it on 1/4 of the game. What about the inverse? He pretty much didn't say a thing about you, except being dumbfounded that Red Magic is sexy. I could pull the same for you and say that he was scum distancing from you, and it'd be pretty much on par as far as reliability compared to him calling me out like that. If anything, it was a stage knife attack that would get town to look at me as though I'm scum, and have him drag me down with him, and even then, it was built within cases against other people. Never a case on its own.

Thirdly, I've decided Grape's counter to PT's vote is a cause for concern. It doesn't gel well with his easygoing nature in the ED1 stage.

##Vote: Grape Soda

My "easy going" nature during ED1 was primarily because I wasn't being assaulted for stupid reasoning, and my posting style wasn't being attacked. My D2 reaction to PT's vote on me was because I thought it was a weak case, and if I misinterpretted her case on me by analyzing things in her post against me, it's bad when she calls me out for reacting the way I did. PT RVS'd me, that was obvious. He points out in his case against me that I shrugged it off because it's RVS. If it wasn't meaniningful, then why was it even brought up? I "misunderstood" a case against me because the evidence and material within it wasn't even meant to be taken into consideration, and yet it was there. That's like me calling someone out for getting a basketball with fingerprints, wearing blood stained shoes, having a weapon in my trunk, and eating waffles for breakfast. Why bring up unrelated and useless material into a case if you don't want it addressed? That is what actually pissed me off, and then the fact that I was being told that I was the one being called out for taking -apparently pointless- details used in a case against me seriously. And now it's attacks on my personal style of play. The Soda-related posting, ok I get that, it was clouding my information under I suppose what could be considered as distracting wording. However for the rest of that game I have not been trying to hide my thoughts or my reads and I have not been aggressive until I was being called out for "misinterpreting".

Much like it makes PT uncomfortable that I replied with "aggression", it makes me uncomfortable that PT says things and doesn't actually mean for them to be addressed. It just doesn't make sense. Why do it, only to call someone out for acknowleding that you said it in the first place, and again later on?

Let me spit it out like this.

I do not find PT scummy. Not at all. I disagree with his/her playstyle though, because it seems to be too closely related to direct attacks, and all that is doing is making me feel inadequate as a player, which frustrates me. Yes I know my reads haven't been on par with some of yours or Dwarfs or whoevers, but PT has attacked me for misinterpretting (and then the masses, sort of), and attacked me for being aggressive, which at the time I really wasn't until I was being provoked about it. PT also attacked Dwarf for gloating in what of all, 2 posts? Dwarf was happy that he wasn't lynched in a tight situation. I would be too, and it'd make my confidence fly through the roof. Perhaps it's wrong to share feelings of excitement and confidence in this setting, but everyone is entitled to feel that way. I took absolutely 0 offense from Dwarf's minimal gloating, but the attacks against it bothered me on principal.

God I'm just going to go to work. I can't even focus on this because all I think of in this game now are how people's posts can be twisted into snippy personal attacks unless I walk on eggshells with my posts (and then I'll be called out for "forced posting" when it's really just me trying to dodge snips and snaps at myself), and it's affecting my ability to even link reads and stuff.

For the record, right now I'm pretty confident that the final scum member is between Bogeto (for obviously stated reasons that I've been pressing like ALL GAME), and RedMage (Distancing from Magus...and a little bit more more I'll post when I'm done with work when I can organize it all as delicately as possible)

[Estelle]

Red Mage's point on Grape about the Magus comments is actually really solid. I never noticed that before; I remembered he had mentioned Grape at least once but I didn't realize there had been such a pattern like that.

Uhh, let me get some things clear, by the way, Grape: I know I've been kind of passive-aggressive this game. I haven't really let that affect my reads (ftr, Jay and Dwarf were my top two townreads and of course they would be obvious kill targets), but I have let it affect the way that I address people, which sucks. Here's what I meant by some things:

Jay's playstyle was annoying because he didn't account for the inactive players. We were letting people like Gonzou and Viking walk by because "oh they have no content, they can't be scummy!!" Dwarf was the exact same way and even ATTACKED ME for voting Viking, misrepping my reason for voting him as 'for being inactive' even though that isn't my reason for voting him at all. He was also pretty obnoxious this game, repeatedly claiming how he was the #1 reason Magus was lynched and gloating about it, which is spammy and also irritating.

The thing that bothered me about you is when you told me to 'get over myself.' Please try to avoid saying things like that and I'll do the same, okay?

Not sure whether I should just switch to Grape or stay to Viking, but I really hope we have enough people present to get a lynch in the first place because jesus this activity is terrible

[Estelle]

Also it's weird how you still continue to tunnel on Bogeto but I have a neutral read on Red, so I dunno.

[Refakitty³]

WRT RedMage:

Quick post analysis shows RVS on Magus in the 4th post of the game (Potentially meaningful, potentially meaningless).

Upon another ISO, RedMage actually addressed Magus more than I had originally noted. His Day 1 was actually pretty neutral-town, and he replied more to the prevalent wagons than I had originally thought.

D2 was primarily Scumhunter-vision (which was sort of given, granted the announcement), and a few votes (like on Ikakas, which spawned from...where exactly? PoE?) He had that 3-sentence blob mixed in #395, but it didn't seem vote-worthy. Then hopped on the Gonzou wagon, which wasn't that difficult to hop on granted how PT pushed that case.

Also, RedMage's case on me. I disagree with it because I don't see it as a legit thing (since I'm not same aligned with Magus, I don't see how he could possibly buddy me), but it is a good case. I'll gladly explain why I think it's flawed from my PoV, but there's only so much I can do from my angle, because no matter how I present myself, this will be resting in your minds.

WRT Bogeto:

Considering his first actual activity was utter shit (#76 and #78), he didn't really step it up as far as reads.

Next significant post was #88, still no reads or votes, and only self-defense against his more-than-unusual case.

***

Then posts this:

I never said that aggressiveness = scum. It's important to know who the more aggressive players are, as these are the ones who tend to have a power of some sort.

Which I'm beginning to see as a possible crumb (or attempt at a crumb).

***

After a plethora of more posts including only clarification and correction, with still nothing as far as reads, but then that softclaim again.

Time goes on and posts become more case-worthy, and votes for Dwarf for quite a while before finally accepting Magus in the end, and voting for him.

Anyone notice his sheepish agreement with Magus though in posts #238, #248 and #251?

And where did that sudden vote for Magus come from in #305.

----

Obvious D2 post is only D2 post. Still no reads to carry over from the previous day, other than Town!Dwarf, which was pretty much a given at that point.

----

Obvious D3 post is only D3 post. Still waiting for that activity burst, and it's nearing the 24 hr mark.

-------------

Considering that Bogeto spent most of D1 either defending his shitty reaction test, siding with Magus in his case against the now-flipped Town!Dwarf, and has literally not scumhunted all game with the exception of his tunnelvision on Dwarf, and his second post on Storm/PT.

This is my case on Bogeto. Has literally taken Day 1 and done nothing of positive note, has taken Day 2 and acknowledged it existed before poofing (granted IRL is important, but an announcement would've been nice), and has taken the current of Day 3 to simply say sorry. It's pretty hard not to take notice to this when all of his interactions during Day 1 were hard defenses of Magus and strikes against Dwarf, then finally an unexplained vote flip to Magus right before the lynch.

If I had to pin buddying vs. distancing, this would be it, and that would be why.

WRT Viking: (I'm pretty sure I got my RedMage and Viking notes mixed up)

Apparently he had valid reasons for not posting, and I don't like that you're using that against him. The rest of your points are legit, but attacking people for inactivity when the mod's already excused it is both grasping and just plain lame.

I don't think I need to hammer Gonzou yet. Hopefully he'll at least be able to post his final reads or something.

I don't like this defense of Gonzou, but compared to his offense against Magus :

Dude. Seriously. Cut this out. All you're doing is attacking absolutely everything, and not defending yourself because apparently no one's arguments are worth replying to. You remind me of a little kid shouting names at people with his fingers stuffed in his ears, and I honestly think this annoying attitude is getting you votes all on its own. If you think this is a viable town strategy, please explain what good it does.

(On a similar note, Dwarf, we get the point, stop posting that blasted image already)

Parsel is clearly not getting lynched today, and I don't think either Magus or Dwarf is a good lynch, much as their posts are making me want to punch them. Bogeto's posts were definitely not what I wanted from him, so this, I think, is the best option.

##Unvote

##Vote: Bogeto Bogeto

It's a mix between open guidance combined with defense.

Pretty much didn't say anything regarding Dwarf, and stayed on the mild defense position regarding Magus, because most of the attention that Viking called towards Magus was either how to apply mechanics or minute observation.

Follow this with the Day 2 Gonzou defense...it's a bit of White Knighting in #415. The only time during the entire game in which Viking mentioned anything about Gonzou was one single sentence accusing him of grapsing, and his hard defense.

In fact, Viking has defended the scumteam pretty much all game, in one way or another.

---

tl:dr version:

My stance on RedMage was skewed, as I was getting him mixed up with Viking in my excel notes doc. Better gameplay compared to the unmemorable that I originally thought.

Ok fine, you could say I've been tunnelling Bogeto. Bogeto hasn't really done anything to change my opinion of himself though. At this point I'm still looking Bogeto primarily because I haven't had much else to go on (that I've been able to pick up anyway). Early game crud hasn't meshed well with the unannounced dissappearance and recent return with promises that haven't came through for about 1/3 of the day.

HOWEVER;

Considering Viking's defense of both scum-mates, I'm actually feeling pretty comfortable with this lynch.

##Unvote

##Vote Viking

[Kamina]

I don't like how Ikakas just showed up, said he would ISO people, and posted town reads.

Personally, I don't think it gives us any information, and it makes me feel like Scumhunter is not the other announcer. No matter his alignment, there's no good reason to do it to himself, it'd only attract attention and wouldn't make you seem more townish. It's possible a town announcer would label a random player town, testing the waters before announce themselves as town. (But I don't think it's likely, any reactions you get from that are compromised because the reactors know you're observing them.) Given a scum got lynched, if there's another mafia announcer I'd lean towards scumhunter being town.

I noticed this post of Red's, which appears to be terrible. For what reason would a town announcer declare that someone else is town that way? And people always know they're being observed, that's how NOC works, what reaction test would be any different?

What's the last sentence supposed to even mean?

Also, you say a town announcer might announce someone else as town BEFORE announcing themselves as town, when you also say a town announcer wouldn't identify himself.

What is it that doesn't give any information?

[Kamina]

I don't like this defense of Gonzou, but compared to his offense against Magus :

It's a mix between open guidance combined with defense.

I think I was quite clear about not suspecting Magus. It's a weird offense because it's not an offense. And yeah, if I think people are town, I try to tell them how to play better, to see if they stop being scummy then. What's wrong with this? You're saying I'm buddies with Magus because I gave him advice? If that was the case, why would I be advising him in the thread, if it's so scummy?

In other words, are you attacking me for my reads being bad, or for my advice to Magus?

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(2) Viking - Parseltongue, Grape Soda

(1) Grape Soda - RedMage

Not Voting (5): Bogeto Bogeto, Ikakas, Scumhunter X, Stormageddon, Viking

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to hammer. You have about 48 hours left in the day.

Scumhunter X and Stormageddon have been prodded.

[Refakitty³]

I think I was quite clear about not suspecting Magus. It's a weird offense because it's not an offense. And yeah, if I think people are town, I try to tell them how to play better, to see if they stop being scummy then. What's wrong with this? You're saying I'm buddies with Magus because I gave him advice? If that was the case, why would I be advising him in the thread, if it's so scummy?

In other words, are you attacking me for my reads being bad, or for my advice to Magus?

It's a weird offense because it's not an offense.

Yes it's a weird offense, because it's a defense. Not only did you openly guide him (which AFAIK, doesn't earn any kind of town cred), but you also advised him publically. Why didn't you find him scummy at all?

I'm calling you out on this because regarding both sides of the case, you acknowledged one as scum and one as town, specifically. Your reads didn't seem anything like reads. It seemed like you weren't going to vote Magus, and that you were going to do everything you could to guide him so he wouldn't get lynched, because you didn't want him lynched.

[Violet Evergarden]

I apologize, I have been a little frantic lately, but now will have more free time in which to post. That being said, for reasons I have previously mentioned, plus Red Mage's interesting comment about Magus's comments, I am going to return to my original vote from yesterday and

##Vote: Grape Soda

To resummarize,

-Looking back at Grape Soda, he seemed really keen on calling Magus out on being not quite townie, but never committed to that

-his quick vote on the Scumhunter wagon

-The point about Magus accusing Grape of buddying

That being said, I will also be rereading and trying to figure some other stuff out as well.