[NOC] Volcanic Anonymafia - Game Over

[All Might]

##Unvote, Invisible answered my question.

My suspicions are currently on Flaming Hot and Pasadena. I think I mentioned Flaming Hot yesternight, and he hasn't made any posts since then, so it's the same case.

With Pasadena, I feel that while his initial reasons for voting people seem okay, he stops voting or changes his vote weirdly. He switches from arguing fairly strongly against Bored to just letting him go in the next post. I get that Bored responded to some accusations in that period of time, but I don't feel that Pasadena properly stated exactly what about Bored's defence made him stop voting. It was just sort of "Okay, I'll stop voting, but I've still got my eye on you." Then with his unvote for Invisible, the post where he unvoted made it seem that he unvoted purely because Invisible apologized and agreed to play nicely. Yeah, it's cool when people play nicely, and it makes for a more fun game, but that doesn't mean that town can't also be aggressive and/or rude. Pasadena made it seem that Invisible's style of posting was scummy.

##Vote: Pasadena

[Olivier]

I'm going to attempt to read past the page few pages of content, but I'd like to mention that just based off the first page, I find Pasadena odd and scummy for asking for consolidated votes so early on ED1. Not sure if this has been mentioned before cause I haven't read past the second page yet.

##Unvote: Invisible

Gonna spend a while reading before I place my vote down again.

My mistake, it was Space Marine who wanted to consolidate the votes so early on.

[C. C.]

From the depths of the Eight Hundred Forty Three Planes Of Adorableness, Moeblobs With Hats rises to the challenge once again!

However Moeblobs has nothing new to with which comment on, other then acknowledge a few town-appearing posts from Space Marine and Pocket Ace!

Moeblobs has been made, however, quite worrisome over Sebonzakura's empty unvote (from an RVS vote), and notes that after the unvote Sebonzakura came in again four hours later with nothing new to add but an Edit By Way Of Post.

Moeblobs is highly disappointed and is eager to view fresh content from Sebonzakura.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Pocket Ace, you are misinterpreting my reason for unvoting Invisible. I didn't unvote him because he "played nice". I unvoted him because I was high on irritation and I wanted to come back with a clearer mind and then vote again. As for what about Bored's defense made me stop voting? As much as I didn't agree with his logic, he explained himself and I felt that we were arguing more over play style. And I didn't feel that keeping my vote on him was productive for the time being. Is there something so wrong with that?

Senbonzakura, when did I ask for consolidated votes on on ED1? I wanted people to contribute. That is HARDLY asking for consolidated votes.

Also, do you guys seriously believe that I'd make myself so visible if I were scum, that I'd be arguing so much and trying to make things happen? Bored wasn't even voting me after he came back, he voted Space Marine. If wanted to "blend in and vote park", don't you think I would have just pretended like I wasn't online and not said anything? It's not like I've been logging in anonymously or anything -- oh wait.

My play has hardly been perfect, and I've admitted as such. But you guys need to think about whether there's scum intent behind my actions or not. No, I am not saying that you guys should let me slide if I am legitimately doing scummy things. But I feel that three votes (on top of one RVS vote that's been parked and the person has not been online once) and a lot of suspicion on me is hardly appropriate.

##Vote: enigma

Hello, I saw you reading the thread yesterday. You were here. You were around for a considerable amount of time. You didn't post anything. This is not cool.

[Aizen]

I'm a bit late to the party, so anything I'm about to say regarding Pasadena v. Invisible has been touched on by a couple others for the most part. I actually feel like this isn't intown fighting on a second read through, and that one of Pasadena and Invisible is actually scum. Bear in mind this is early in the phase so this isn't a theory that is set in stone with a surplus amount of evidence, so it may change in the future. For now though, I think that based on Invisible's reactions to the wagon of votes on him, as well as his interactions with Pasadena, it's fair to conclude that he's scum.

##Unvote (Senbonzakura)

##Vote Invisible

• His "idgaf" attitude wrt the votes placed on him seems a little strange and forced. It's fine not overreact, but stating "yeah I'm town bro who even cares about these votes" isn't very townie. Show, don't tell.
• Your interactions with Pasadena don't look like intown fighting. It's one thing to defend yourself, but your tone is very aggressive with Pasadena, and your pretty much trying to shrug the lynch on to him/her, who imo had townie intentions with his/her vote on you.
• It's alright to defend yourself if you don't feel like the votes are strong on you, but the thing is you haven't really scumhunt at all. Apart from attacking Pasadena back, you simply asked others "which votes on me seem opportunistic right now?" and didn't even give your own input. You're playing this as a "attack me and I'll defend myself" game instead of a "looking for scum" game, and town needs to do the latter. So I'm not sensing any townie intentions out of you right now.
• Lastly, and this is just a minor note, but it's really unnecessary to make people feel like shit in this game. This may be anonymous so the consequences aren't as big, but I'd like to ask that everyone tries to tone it down a little and just keep in mind that the game is about having fun. Also, in the sense of the game, it's not a townie thing to do. You've apologized, and said that you'll try not to do the same in the future, which is great and I applaud you for it. This is more of a reminder to everyone, and just my two cents on the matter.

Secondary scumread on Flaming Hot right now, who dropped in quickly and hopped onto a wagon with washed up borrowed reasoning from the other players, then shot out.

[Ochako Uraraka]

Just a heads up that I'm going to be busy for the next 6 hours, after which I can really play. I don't feel like I need to change my vote yet from what I've read, given that Bored sort of flipped out and spawned walls and walls of words. Though I'm not done reading the topic, soooo....

[Refakitty³]

His "idgaf" attitude wrt the votes placed on him seems a little strange and forced. It's fine not overreact, but stating "yeah I'm town bro who even cares about these votes" isn't very townie. Show, don't tell.

Let me pose a question. You say it sounds forced, but why? Where is the scum intent behind it? What do I have to gain from doing this as scum?

Your interactions with Pasadena don't look like intown fighting. It's one thing to defend yourself, but your tone is very aggressive with Pasadena, and your pretty much trying to shrug the lynch on to him/her, who imo had townie intentions with his/her vote on you.

I could go on and on about what metric's people use for "intown fighting" and why trying to use associative reads without flips is bad, but that summarizes it pretty much.

Also hi I'm not pushing their lynch particularly hard what are you on about. Try harder bro

you simply asked others "which votes on me seem opportunistic right now?" and didn't even give your own input.

Hi do I have to spell out the word opportunistic in this post, that is implied by the content. I have to wonder if you are reading my posts properly...

You're playing this as a "attack me and I'll defend myself" game instead of a "looking for scum" game, and town needs to do the latter. So I'm not sensing any townie intentions out of you right now.

In case you haven't noticed, there really aren't a lot of people participating so it's kinda a thing that is happening as a consequence.

Secondary scumread on Flaming Hot right now, who dropped in quickly and hopped onto a wagon with washed up borrowed reasoning from the other players, then shot out.

Why does everyone and their mother (hyperbole, get over it) have a minor/secondary scumread on Flaming... eh everyone explained themselves so I'm not too sore but it almost feels like something is wrong.

Here's a thought to go on:

##Unvote

##Vote: Senbonzakura

Fix that empty unvote and your lack of content. I don't like it at all (you could have just easily not unvoted/posted until later when you had material). It feels like filler content and not contributing ain't good at this point.

[C. C.]

Moeblobs is annoyed with Invisible's constant falling back on the "where is the scum intent" argument and would like to point out that scum doesn't need to benefit from every action they take, sometimes scum slip up and fall down.

Moeblobs is also slightly miffed that Invisible has decided to backtrack and convict a lurker with a vote, it does not do Invisible much justice with a vote such as that when other players have been critical of Invisible's lack of aggressive scumhunting.

Moeblobs requests that Invisible give his opinion on Flaming Hot instead of balking that the suspicions on Flaming Hot are themselves suspicious.

[All Might]

Pasadena, blending in isn't necessarily a good strategy for scum to have always, because otherwise people could just easily pinpoint the people with a medium level of posts. Besides, weren't you the one who said that a defence stating "would I do this as scum" isn't good unless what you're doing is incredibly detrimental to the scumteam? Also, if you actually do think that blending in is the way to play as scum, not posting even once after the start of the game like Enigma/Paperclip/Mormegil is hardly a good way to play either, because that stands out just as much as posting a lot. So I'd question the usefulness of your Enigma vote. You're wasting it on prodding an inactive as opposed to prodding an active who could actually respond to your argument. If your only reason for unvoting Invisible was because you were getting irritated and wanted to clear your mind, I don't like that the best thing you can do after coming back is a vote for an inactive.

I acknowledge your defence of your Bored unvote, and it's valid, but I don't think it overturns the above.

I think everybody has a minor scumread on Flaming Hot because he's done scummy stuff but hasn't really posted enough for people to feel like they should vote him over the people they think are active scum (Pasadena, Invisible), but has still posted more than the players who are just inactive.

Speaking of voting for inactives, btw, I dislike that both Invisible and Pasadena are doing something like that. Inactives will be subbed out if they don't step up their activity, and if they don't get subbed out, then we can pursue them later. Voting people who are not very active at this stage of the game simply stagnates activity because there is less back-and-forth interaction and more waiting for people to come on and contribute.

[C. C.]

Moeblobs will not be available ~at least~ for the next 6 hours, by the way.

[Prims]

Need a sub for Enigma.

[eclipse]

The person who is missing posts can PM me for the text.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Besides, weren't you the one who said that a defence stating "would I do this as scum" isn't good unless what you're doing is incredibly detrimental to the scumteam?

I don't recall saying that, ever.

Speaking of voting for inactives, btw, I dislike that both Invisible and Pasadena are doing something like that. Inactives will be subbed out if they don't step up their activity, and if they don't get subbed out, then we can pursue them later. Voting people who are not very active at this stage of the game simply stagnates activity because there is less back-and-forth interaction and more waiting for people to come on and contribute.

I had originally voted engima not because he was just inactive, but because I saw him reading the thread for significant periods of time and then went away without a word. If he had the time to be reading the thread for that long, then he had the time to pop in and say something. I found it telling that he just went away without a word.

And now he's subbing out so this vote serves nothing.

##Unvote

Need to reread.

[Aizen]

Let me pose a question. You say it sounds forced, but why? Where is the scum intent behind it? What do I have to gain from doing this as scum?

I could go on and on about what metric's people use for "intown fighting" and why trying to use associative reads without flips is bad, but that summarizes it pretty much.

Also hi I'm not pushing their lynch particularly hard what are you on about. Try harder bro

Hi do I have to spell out the word opportunistic in this post, that is implied by the content. I have to wonder if you are reading my posts properly...

In case you haven't noticed, there really aren't a lot of people participating so it's kinda a thing that is happening as a consequence.

Why does everyone and their mother (hyperbole, get over it) have a minor/secondary scumread on Flaming... eh everyone explained themselves so I'm not too sore but it almost feels like something is wrong.

Probably because of shit like "Had a laugh at all the votes on me right now, good luck with that" and "I don't think you're gonna lynch me" and "I'm not worried about them at all". Congratulations my man you don't care about a quick RVS wagon on you. Instead of talking all apathetically, try and scumhunt a little. It's fluff. And how the hell am I supposed to know what scum's intent is? Scum can screw up sometimes, and sometimes they do things differently. Trying to make conjectures based on what we THINK scum could POSSIBLY be doing is completely pointless and a waste of time, especially this early in the game. Agreeing with Moeblobs here.

>Has vote on someone

>Not trying to push their lynch

Oooook bro

What am I being opportunistic about again? That you've barely scumhunt? One post about people who voted for you doesn't mean very much sadly.

No not really. I'm not saying there's a plethora of things to talk about, but you've literally just defended yourself 90% of the time, and the other 10% you attacked people who voted for you (mostly Pasadena though).

Probably because his vote was extremely opportunistic and his lack of contribution otherwise, but at the same time he hasn't really done enough to warrant a vote just yet. Just a thought though.

Nothing else has really happened after my last post so I don't have much else to comment on.

[Violet Evergarden]

My mistake, it was Space Marine who wanted to consolidate the votes so early on.

This is a slight misrepresentation of my intent, unless I'm reading you wrong, though it is not unreasonable given my lack of initial clarity. I wasn't asking for votes to be consolidated with the intent of effecting a lynch (this should be clear by the 'multiple' in "It's in our favor to have multiple consolidated wagons. "), but rather pointing out that the more actual wagons we have throughout the course of the day, the better. Analyzing trends, associations, and other things is nigh on impossible with just single votes scattered on each member. We don't have to have multiple wagons at the same time even, though that can produce its own benefits.

On to other topics, I am disappointed to see no reply yet by Flaming Hot. Maintaining my vote here. Still paying attention to the Invisible/Pasadena dialogue, which is interesting, but on the other hand, that seems to be proceeding along well and generating new content without my help. When I get some time later in the day, I do hope to check in and throw down opinions, corrections, or whathave you on some of the points being brought up, but I don't really have time for a full-scale analysis at this point.

[All Might]

Blah, Kibler was the one who said that he didn't like the "Would I do this as scum?" defence. Scratch that bit then. The rest of it stands, and I'll be back later.

[Prims]

Votecount 1.3

Pasadena (3) - Mormegil, Brian Kibler, Pocket Ace

Bored (2) - Failbaddon, Flaming Hot

Invisible (2) - Moeblobs With Hats, Frank Lucas

Flaming Hot (2) - enigma, Space Marine

Senbonzakura (1) - Invisible

Space Marine (1) - Bored

Not Voting: Paperclip, Pasadena, Senbonzakura

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have about 47 hours left in the day.

enigma is in need of a sub. Paperclip has informed me of absence, but should still be able to play.

[Shiki Ryougi]

I just finished rereading the thread. As much as I disagree and dislike Bored's thought processes on RVS and whatnot, I don't feel he's scum. I am reading him as a player who knows his mafia but doesn't play the way SF usually does and picked up grief for it. That said, I don't like how he has not addressed anything unrelated to himself. Your thoughts on anything else happening in the game?

Also, now that I'm not irritated with Invisible, I can say without being biased that I still don't like his reactions. Like I had stated earlier, I feel that he is making a big deal about not being bothered about votes on him. Before you come back and ask, "but what is the scum intent in this," let me ask you: what is the TOWN intent in this? What's the point of laughing off every vote on you, especially RVS votes, and just saying "we're not lynching me"? Pocket Ace voted you over that earlier in the game. And when I voted you because I didn't like you making a big deal of laughing at votes, you laughed in my face and rubbed it in my face how weak my case was. What was so fundamentally different about PA's reason for voting you and mine, that you reacted like this? Yes, my vote put you at three votes. But considering that Senbonzakura's vote on you was an RVS vote he had never come back to remove, the only serious votes on you at that point were Pocket Ace and me, before Moeblobs voted you.* It's not exactly my definition of opportunistic.

I don't feel that you're scum hunting or doing anything to contribute. You're just defending yourself. Your vote is on me, but I don't even know why you're voting me. I'm probably wrong, but it feels like you're voting me mostly for not agreeing you with. If you say I'm "generalizing so much to the point of misrep", then why don't you clarify and tell me where. Your vote is on me, but you're not even driving a lynch on me or anything. In fact, it's just there.

##Vote: Invisible

*Speaking of Moeblobs, I find it interesting how he blames the "wagon" on Invisible primarily on me, only making a minor note that he himself had jumped onto the same wagon. Yes, he had Invisible had some back-and-forth exchanges, but I feel that Moeblob backed off quite easily and instead says that he should focus more on me for ... I dunno, what? This reeks of something scummy.

Also, Moeblobs, you have a lot of nerve to say, "oh you unvoted? Where is your vote going next, Pasadena?" after I already stated that I was tired and not in the proper mood to continue. And keep your creepy eyes to yourself.

The other half of the game needs to get back in here and show that they care. Because this is ridiculous.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Ah, yes, now lets see what we have.

I make a post, poking at one person in response to a vote they made on me. It was clearly not going to be much of a defense as the reasons for the vote were simply random. Thus, I felt no real reason to defend myself. After all, if I had, it would have simply been empty words for an empty case. Simple. Next, I do not participate in RVS. Because, well, there was nothing for me to work on. Now, I ask you this. What is the point of putting down an empty vote when there are plenty of votes out there already? Instead, I was content to sit back and observe. And look what popped up. 4 votes on me within almost an hour. All for not placing a vote and some of them for my style of posting. Now, looking at this case logically, I see that this game only has three scum. So it is in fact impossible for all four of these people on my bandwagon to be scum. And even if there were four scum, I find it highly unlikely that they would all be on my wagon. No, they're smarter than that. However, it is interesting to look at the voting patterns.

Somehow, this seems like an overreaction to me. You say those 4 people who voted you could be scum in an attempt to antagonise them. Honestly, such a slip is hardly town. Plus, your lack of action even during early RVS bothers me. How do you expect us to get out of this phase and do more important things if you are not helping at all? Or rather, not even bothering to help at all?

Now, what can we learn from this? Well, I actually find it unlikely that Fail is scum. Instead, I find it likely that one of the first two people to vote me are scum. After all, that allows them to come in and appear to be contributing while really they're voting someone for something that isn't scummy at all. Let me ask you this. If I were scum, which would be better for me? To come in and toss a random vote down with a few words behind it, or to instead make a post that doesn't have a vote in it when I have the full knowledge that not voting in RVS is considered scummy for some reason?

Oh, no, not that excuse again. Arguing that you wouldn't do X if you were scum because it is stupid after people call you for it is an old, fallacious excuse.

How do you know that your vote would have been "useless" and that it would be reacted to? With your logic, how would would we ever get out of RVS in previous games? Basically, you popping in and refusing to vote is the "thing that broke RVS". In my case, it's not so much that you didn't vote, but your general attitude.

Who even has a reason to lay down a vote in RVS in that case?

I can buy his excuse if he's a new player such as Baldrick or Darros, but otherwise, he should've been around for quite enough time to learn this is how we get out of RVS. While his excuse of "Hey, I stood out, thus I'm not scum" makes sense in an objective point of view and he would've tried to blend in as scum, it doesn't make much sense in context, as how I said before, I'm not sure he expected for the situation to improve magically as town either.

Also, Invisible's post #77 is the worst defense I've seen in all my experiences as a Mafia player. First, he didn't really defend himself, still adopting his apathetic image towards the votes parked on him. Then, he used the same old fallacious excuse of "hey I wouldn't do X if I were scum", which really doesn't work that way logically. In my opinion, he simply doesn't have an excuse to justify himself. Then, his post #82 basically shrugs off Pasadena's cross-examination of his later post and calls him scummy for this.

Moeblobs also notes, in light of this, that Pasadena's switch also was very opportunistic! Moeblobs will be keeping several adorable eyes on him! Moeblobs does not discriminate when trying to find scum on wagons, even it if is also a wagon Moeblobs is on the case for!

Opportunistic? This is the second time you call someone for something you do not explain further in your post (first you called Invisible an hypocrite). Furthermore, you seem to suspect a lot of people, yet you are vague about your intentions and motives. I see a slightly scum player trying to blend in, though I can't say more at this point of the game as I haven't seem much from you.

I'll address more stuff tomorrow, or later. Assimilating walls of text and posts when english is not your main language is hard, at least for me.

[Estelle]

Pocket Ace, answer my question.

[Refakitty³]

okay not feeling like posting at all right now because i feel like shit irl but here's some quick summary defense points and that's all you're getting

1) I can't ever try and do anything different because people will find it scummy for whatever reason

2) strictly speaking me saying i don't care about votes on me is null (which I was kinda hoping people would pick up on with my insistence but nooooooooooo everyone seems to think binary these days)

3) Mormegil did you even read #77 I'm pretty sure I defended myself >_>

4) I concede the point about Pasa in post #82 Mormegil, because looking back I did exactly that oops

[Refakitty³]

3) Mormegil did you even read #77 I'm pretty sure I defended myself >_>

well defended myself in a non-standard/weird way, at least

[Refakitty³]

blah I'm playing like shit this game someone remind me never to play while I have schoolwork to do >_>

[Estelle]

Frank Lucas's posts read like he is trying to setup mislynches. He makes a one-off about how he doesn't think this is town infighting because apparently it looks genuine. What about it looks genuine? It's not like busing and D1 mafia slapfights have never happened. Also, it's hard to not attack people on your wagon when like half the active players are voting you.

Also, why do you think that Pasadena backing off and voting an inactive is acceptable? (I saw him lurking too, but if he never posts he will be subbed like he is right now)

Also, do you guys seriously believe that I'd make myself so visible if I were scum, that I'd be arguing so much and trying to make things happen?

If you are active in discussion, you can control the tempo of the game and lead it in ways you want it to go. Also it makes you look townier.

Also I dislike how Pasadena is playing this "There is no scum intent behind my actions" defense which is like Invisible's exact defense.

PS

Lastly, and this is just a minor note, but it's really unnecessary to make people feel like shit in this game.

fuq u u suk@mafia kill urself n nevr cum bak fgt

PPS

I fucked your mother.

[C. C.]

*Speaking of Moeblobs, I find it interesting how he blames the "wagon" on Invisible primarily on me, only making a minor note that he himself had jumped onto the same wagon. Yes, he had Invisible had some back-and-forth exchanges, but I feel that Moeblob backed off quite easily and instead says that he should focus more on me for ... I dunno, what? This reeks of something scummy.

Moeblobs feels misrepresented by this! Moeblobs does not "blame" a wagon on anyone (wagons are just a collection of people voting for various reasons, most don't have a "leader"), but Moeblobs does think your original reason for voting was weak. Invisible making a show of having votes does not make him scum, as showy posts =/= scummy posts, as I have stated before.

Moeblobs would also like to take this time to call you out on your waffling on Invisible. Invisible has only posted once between your unvote then vote on him, so it has apparently not taken much to sway your opinions on him. Moeblobs suspects you may be scum trying to sit on an easy mislynch! You are apparently not even reading him now either because he switched his vote off of you to vote a lurker, yet you criticize his vote on you!

Moeblobs would like to cite you as a secondary lynch choice now!

Opportunistic? This is the second time you call someone for something you do not explain further in your post (first you called Invisible an hypocrite). Furthermore, you seem to suspect a lot of people, yet you are vague about your intentions and motives. I see a slightly scum player trying to blend in, though I can't say more at this point of the game as I haven't seem much from you.

Opportunistic as in "weak and jumpy". Or you can just read how Moeblobs has explained it above.