SB. Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Uh, what? That's a pretty bad reaction to a jokevote on you, it seems really overdefensive. Consider my RVS vote to be serious now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Boroninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Meh, got lazy of waiting for Objection to defend himself. I think Objection's vote is bad, but I think he might be town anyways, because near the end of last game, as scum, he got really conscious of whether or not his votes were OMGUSes, and I don't think he'd start this game off with two votes that are OMGUSy, if he was scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Ha, Objection so silly, such a pancake. If you're so serious now, you might as well admit you're sending monsters to clobber than there Kirby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 ##Vote: Objection! Apply pressure directly to the forehead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Day 1.3 - Votals Objection (4) - Essbee, Shin, Boron, Weapons Shin (2) - CT075, Objection Weapons (2) - Kay, BBM Boron (1) - Shinori Grassbridger (1) - scorri Jalmont (1) - Paperblade Kay (1) - Jalmont Paperblade (1) - kirsche Not Voting (2): Grassbridger, Refa With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have 47.5 hours left in the day. Prodding Grassbridger and Refa, then gonna be gone for a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 zzzzz ##Unvote, ##Vote: Weapons RANDOM I am getting so very tired of the word "circlejerk" now, and of being the bad guy over everything. Activity where the hell are you? BBM, why did you randomly switch your vote to Weapons? PSSH CAUSE HE'S SCUM. Also, circlejerk. Since I have been redirector in all Mafia games I joined except EiMM, do NOT assign me the redirector ability. Thank You (not that I see one available). ##Vote: Shin Basing your vote on anoher game is dumb, it's lik saying that your dice roll will end on a two becaue it did before. Which makes no sense by he way. This was weird. Would like to hear you respond to other people. Meh, got lazy of waiting for Objection to defend himself. I think Objection's vote is bad, but I think he might be town anyways, because near the end of last game, as scum, he got really conscious of whether or not his votes were OMGUSes, and I don't think he'd start this game off with two votes that are OMGUSy, if he was scum. Really dislike this defense. Let him defend himself. ##Unvote: ##Vote: BBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori The first two comments in that last post was unnecessary, the third didn't really commit to any opinion on Objection, and the fourth comment and the vote is bad because it disregards a) the fact that I already gave an explanation for why I stepped in, b) the actual content of my defence, and c) the fact that my defence doesn't actually explain any of his actions, just that I think it's a bad vote from a townie. My defence isn't precluding him from explaining his actions. Furthermore, while defending him might be called unnecessary/bad play/what have you, Shinori doesn't really say why it's scummy for me to defend Objection. Also, Objection isn't a super-active poster. I'm not going to wait around for someone who might not post for another day and do nothing in an already slow-starting game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 BBM didn't even really answer Boron's question for Objection. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori The first two comments in that last post was unnecessary, the third didn't really commit to any opinion on Objection, and the fourth comment and the vote is bad because it disregards a) the fact that I already gave an explanation for why I stepped in, b) the actual content of my defence, and c) the fact that my defence doesn't actually explain any of his actions, just that I think it's a bad vote from a townie. My defence isn't precluding him from explaining his actions. Furthermore, while defending him might be called unnecessary/bad play/what have you, Shinori doesn't really say why it's scummy for me to defend Objection. Also, Objection isn't a super-active poster. I'm not going to wait around for someone who might not post for another day and do nothing in an already slow-starting game. First comment was commenting on your RANDOM vote swap for no reason. Second comment was for the most part pointless though, yeah. Third says I don't like his post but a couple of people already instantly jumped on him and I won't to hear his response to them. As for the last part: I think Objection's vote is bad, but I think he might be town anyways, because near the end of last game, as scum, he got really conscious of whether or not his votes were OMGUSes, and I don't think he'd start this game off with two votes that are OMGUSy, if he was scum. Vote is bad, might be town anyway BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE LAST GAME AS SCUM BLAH BLAH BLAH. Meta. So you don't think he would do that as scum but you think he would do it as town? What's the thought process there? Why do you think he would not worry about what he says as town, as town I think he would still not want to look scummy. It's really flawed logic. Your defense on him is based off of a meta from one game and like i said, is really flawed logic. You can't just brush it off like you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Objection's vote is bad, and I would like to hear his reasoning for said vote. BBM, at this stage in the game we don't know whether Objection is town or not, but your logic that "he may be town because he was scum last game and got super conscious about OMGUSes and I don't think he'd do two in a row as scum" is just ... ;/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Shinori, did you disregard the fact that BBM actually explained why he switched his vote later on? Don't even agree with the logic that votehopping in RVS is scummy, honestly. Having to be prodded to explain why something is scummy isn't exactly solid either. Don't care for BBM's logic, don't care for voting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 ##Vote: Shin Because America > Britain i don't care if i'm too late to make RVS vote dammit. may change after i read through the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 BBM's defence of Objection! is dumb, but he does this WIFOM rubbish all the time so it's a null read. It's not the sort of thing a scumbuddy would say to defend a fellow mafioso though so I disagree with Shinori's vote. That said voting him for bad logic is bad in of itself and if PB's only reasoning to his vote is "no Shinori, BBM isn't answering for Objection ergo he's not scummy and you are bad" then his vote is really lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 ##Vote: BBM Both #53 and #58 have some indications which vaguely remind me of scum!BBM's style. I'm not sure what specifically is drawing my attention, but he's making some weak claims (such as "I don't think he'd start this game off with two votes that are OMGUSy, if he was scum") that seem like overthinking. Another weak claim is "My defence isn't precluding him from explaining his actions"--well, it might be technically correct, but it still helps Objection explain away what's going on. Also, he admits that his play "might be called unnecessary/bad play" but implies it's not scummy without really saying anything specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Grassbridger, I don't think you've even played a game with me when I've been scum. What style of mine are you referring to? You say that I'm making some weak claims, but that's something that any scum might do. What's the point of bringing up non-existent meta? My defence of Objection doesn't help him explain anything away. Saying "I wouldn't OMGUS as town" isn't an explanation of why he voted for Shin. Shinori, I explained why I randomly switched to Weapons. And even if I hadn't, what's scummy about that again? As for why he wouldn't do it as town, he might still do it, but the chance of it is less because even if you don't want to look scummy when you're town, that goal is secondary to catching scum, whereas when you're scum, it's the primary goal. Scum are more self-conscious than town are most of the time, so I don't see what's wrong with stating that something that looks remarkably self-unconscious from a player who's demonstrated that they're self-conscious as scum is somewhat of a towntell. I don't particularly care if it's based on meta either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Kirsche- Paperblade's Shinori vote is a more condensed version of mine. If you think that his is lazy, do you think that mine is as well? Also, what are your opinions on Objection? Also you say WIFOM rubbish but I'm right more often than I'm wrong so Boron/SB/Kirsche have all said that they think that my reasoning for thinking that Objection might be town is dumb- why? Refer to my above post for why I think my logic makes sense. Another thing to Shinori- What's scummy with brushing off Objection's vote in the first place? There's only scum intent there if you think that I'm trying to defend my scumbuddy, which makes this sort of an associative read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 BBM: I've read through three or four games where you were scum. One aspect of the style I'm referring to is making counterarguments that redirect, rather than refute, opposing points. Bringing up that that's something that any scum might do is actually an example of that--it sounds like a contradiction, but it actually makes my point more valid, since suddenly it no longer relies on person-specific meta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 OK, Objection overreacted to Shin, although I think what's more suspicious isn't his reaction but how he voted Shin in return for being voted on himself. I mean, so was the SB one, but that just struck me as an RVS vote, so disregarding that. But honestly, I think overreaction is kind of a weak claim to vote someone on, at least this early on. I don't really get BBM's defense of Objection, because it seems primarily focused on the meta which I'm uh, not very experienced in. Rather, I think Shinori was a little too quick to vote for BBM when at worst, he provided a shaky defense of Objection. Even if hypothetical scum BBM was defending his scumbuddy Objection, it would be far expedient to just vote Objection, who had far more votes on him at that point anyways. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori Also just a thought, but since the Day 1 Lynch gets to pick the copy ability first, would it be more beneficial for a townie to get lynched Day 1? Because if a scum is lynched, then there'd be uh...however many scum left - 1 who'd get all of the abilities they wanted, while town would be stuck with the leftovers. 'Course, if the townie gets lynched and has bad reads, it could end up in the same scenario either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Since all roles will be public, I anticipate it will be pretty hard to fake results after maybe a day or so. So, maybe cop/doc goes to scum, which would be bad, but we'd figure it out pretty quickly and lynch 'em. We should try to lynch scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 BBM, while scum are more self-conscious than town, neither scum nor town play perfectly. I think Objection's overreaction to Shin was something that demanded answers. I'm not going to ignore it because "oh, scum will be more self-conscious than town", because I am not assuming that scum will play ideally. Also, I want to hear his answers and his thoughts behind that vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 GB- my point is that I don't really see the point of trying to bring meta into the argument when the claims you're making are not dependent on meta. It gives me the feeling that you're trying to bolster your argument with it even though it's not actually relevant. I also don't think it'd be good for scum to just assign themselves all the good roles at the beginning of the choosing. That would make it way too easy to get them. Role-choosing is public, remember? Also, Refa, if you think that Objection's overreaction is a weak reason for a vote, what do you think of the people making those votes? ie Boron/SB/Shin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Paperblade's Shinori vote is a more condensed version of mine. If you think that his is lazy, do you think that mine is as well? Also, what are your opinions on Objection?Also you say WIFOM rubbish but I'm right more often than I'm wrong That's a gross oversimplification of his vote and the effort put into it. You are not voting him while simply saying "no Shinori, BBM isn't answering for Objection ergo he's not scummy and you are bad". Objection is bad but I'll wait for a defense. Are you really though? You say being self-unconscious is townie, but being overly defensive and panicky under pressure is scummy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 In all fairness, I was yanking Objection's chain. All I've really proved is that Objection's pretty paranoid, which is a null tell really. ##Unvote ##Vote: Da Colonel (Refa) No way, our surveys show that customers prefer British waiters to American ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 If my vote is better than Paper's wouldn't it be a gross oversimplification of my own vote...? Really Shin? You really don't have any actual opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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