Kirby Mafia - Game Over

[Kay]

do u guys feel that OMGUS has become so frequently abused that its meaning is diluted? i think so but im interested to here other people's take on it

Um, yeah, if you mean by that what I think you do, which is that people call some things OMGUS when it's just voting for someone who happens to be voting you, then yeah, I can agree with that. Objection's vote was a legit OMGUS though.

Speaking of OMGUS, maybe you need an incentive to at least pretend to act pro-town.

##Unstab: Refa

##Stab: Jalmont

That also reminds me, Paper, why do you think Refa is that much of a questionable vote? I don't think Shinori, Objection, or BBM are scum, so it's not like there was much better stuff to vote someone over.

[Jalmont]

what is a "legit" OMGUS because i am struggling to find anything that is "legitimate" about it

OMGUS is a nice excuse that mafia can use to be like "heeeeeey OMGUS that's a scum tell lynch him quick!" when in reality it means nothing !!!

i falter under pressure pls stop voting me

personally i think we should look at users who aren't bothering to post - not just the ones who haven't posted at all, but short stuff that's hasn't added much to the game. I'm tired so i can't do this now but i will tomorrow after school yay!!!

if u guys want i can link you to my stuff??? i mean meta is a dum argument but i guess whatevs floats ur boat?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

ok jalmont is town?

i'll roll with it

[Sunwoo]

Grassbridger using meta to try to argue scum!BBM rubs me the wrong way. While I don't like BBM's "scum wouldn't do s-and-so" WIFOM style, he does it as town as well. Even if he has read through games with scum!BBM in them, it's not the same thing as actualyy playing with that person and knowing the meta through that. Grassbridger, do you actually find BBM's actions scummy, disregarding the meta argument?

While I don't think BBM was worth voting over his "defense" of Objection, I don't see Shinori as being scummy over it and I don't understand the votes on him.

Refa, it's RVS, and nothing was happening. I didn't understand Objection's reasoning and didn't like it,so I voted hoping for a response to said reasoning. Also, Refa's suggestion on trying to lynch a townie is ;/.

Jalmont please contribute.

[Grassbridger]

Sangyul: I was getting mild scumvibes from BBM; that hasn't changed. I thought they were because of meta.

##Unvote

##Vote: Jalmont

"we should look at users who aren't bothering to post - not just the ones who haven't posted at all, but short stuff that's hasn't added much to the game"

I think you fit this description fine...

Also, "i falter under pressure pls stop voting me :[" leads to this vote. If someone doesn't falter under pressure, pressure voting produces no results...

I suppose it's worth pointing out that pressure voting can't induce anyone to claim today, since there aren't any roles yet.

[BBM]

I dislike Kay's last vote since it's basically just a content-pressure vote when her own content consists of pressure votes and saying she doesn't find stuff scummy. Since she's choosing to pressure Jal over voting Refa for his bad suggestion, it sort of implies that she never really thought Refa was all that scummy. Sure, Jalmont doesn't have content either, but at least he's not pretending he does? Dunno, I don't really like Jalmont's posts, but Kay's leave a worse taste in my mouth. Might vote here in the morning.

Grass- the point of pressure-voting isn't to induce claims; it's to get the person to possibly slip or react badly under lynch pressure.

[Prims]

Day 1.5 - Votals

Shinori (4) - BBM, Paperblade, Refa, Weapons

Jalmont (2) - Kay, Grassbridger

Objection (2) - Essbee, Boron

Shin (2) - CT075, Objection

BBM (1) - Shinori

Grassbridger (1) - scorri

Kay (1) - Jalmont

Paperblade (1) - kirsche

Refa (1) - Shin

Not Voting (0): None

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have 36 hours and 40 minutes left in the day.

scorri has been prodded.

[The Objection!]

Yo what's up? My vote on Shin was meant to be bad to start discussion and end RVS, not the best method but I'm pleased with the results.

To prove my good intentions I've come up with something I took from the book, the vote was a simple:

Basing your vote on another game is dumb, it's like saying that your dice roll will end on a two because it did before. Which makes no sense by the way

test to end RVS. Notice that the bolded and underlined letters are left out from my first post.

I hope this clears a few, because I'm currently busy and won't be able to post for a while. Which means, no reread for now!

Will do it soon as I can though.

[Zkirsche]

;/

Weapons do you have any opinions on people that aren't a major wagon?

Yo Paper can you elaborate on your Shinori vote or were you just condensing BBM's vote into a line?

Jalmont's posts are painful to read but they don't read scummy. Looks more like lazy town openly being lazy.

Cam's stuff is mostly ok but the fact that he hasn't voted anyone new is a bit weird. I also don't get why Shinori has to think BBM and Objection! must be scumbuddies. Scum defend town members all the time for towncred.

[BBM]

Kirsche I swear I remember you espousing the belief at some point that scum don't really get towncred from defending townies?

Objection, you DO remember how people were super mad in Masquerade when Kay/Orion did the same thing that you were doing, don't you?

[Paperblade]

Shinori said "Wow BBM let Objection defend himself" when BBM wasn't saying anything that Objection could have said without looking stupid, as BBM's logic was "Objection did this in previous games as scum and was found out I don't think he'd do it immediately as scum in this game." Shinori's post and vote don't make sense with what BBM was saying, it feels like he's trying to set up BBM. So yeah, I guess basically what BBM said.

Also I don't really like "Aha I was only being scummy to get out of RVS!" but I guess it's better than still being in RVS...

[CT075]

That also reminds me, Paper, why do you think Refa is that much of a questionable vote? I don't think Shinori, Objection, or BBM are scum, so it's not like there was much better stuff to vote someone over.

i don't mean to speak for paper but i honestly can't see scum!anybody legitimately saying "oh hey let's try to deliberately lynch a townie"

like, as much as i disagree with refa's idea (lynching town = bad no matter what), i... i really don't think it's a scum move? it just seems too weird.

Cam's stuff is mostly ok but the fact that he hasn't voted anyone new is a bit weird. I also don't get why Shinori has to think BBM and Objection! must be scumbuddies. Scum defend town members all the time for towncred.

that does remind me to

##unvote

it was kind of a half-baked question to begin with, but my hope was more to get shinori's opinions on objection (as well as whether he thought the two were in cahoots)

actually since i'm on the subject i think i'll just ask shinori directly - Shinori pls respond how about dat objection

[SB.]

BBM's Objection defense is dumb because people's playstyles don't magically change between games (see Prims hard defending his scumbuddies) and also kind of relies on wifom to make it work.

Refa, why is an overreaction a weak reason to vote for someone? You say especially in RVS, but it should be the other way around. In RVS people have weaker reasons behind their votes due to a lack of content to use, so I don't really get this criticism.

Shin says that all he got out of Objection was that he's paranoid, calls him null and is doesn't do a serious revote, which I don't like.

Cam's whole thing about BBM staying quiet is kind of flawed because unless BBM posted that, Shinori probably wouldn't have said not to talk about it and nothing would've been done, and I don't like how he has to point out he's not super confident on his reads, of course you won't be in ED1. This just seems like you're being self-conscious. I also don't like his #88 because it fewls like he's just grasping at reasons for not to vote, the whole "I want to see how this pans out" kind of feels like he doesn't want to do anything that makes himself look scummy and the part about lots of votes could also be interpreted as not wanting to be associated with a wagon.

Don't like Jalmont having no opinions, or Weapons having no opinions of his own.

Kay's Refa vote felt to me like it was jumping on something really easy after a post with very little in the way of reads. It was just a bunch of null in there mostly, and then she shifts her vote not long after (like, 3 hours and 6 posts later,) and after Paper voiced that he didn't think voting Refa was a good idea.

Reaction tests that incriminate the person who began them are terrible. Objection also hasn't done anything else but just promise to provide content later, which I'm going to hold him to his word on.

BBM, since the whole crumb means that he obviously WAS self conscious about omgusing/looking scummy in general does this change your opinion on Objection?

##Unvote

##Vote: Cam

[Paperblade]

@Kay: Kind of what Cam said and kind of that it feels like you're picking on an easy target to ignore the rest of the game.

[Refa]

Refa, why is an overreaction a weak reason to vote for someone? You say especially in RVS, but it should be the other way around. In RVS people have weaker reasons behind their votes due to a lack of content to use, so I don't really get this criticism.

When I said early on, I didn't mean RVS, but rather Day 1. I can see why it'd be more suspicious later on, when there's more content, but at this point it just strikes me as him being paranoid.

[scorri]

Ugh, ok. Some things.

I think both BBM's reaction to Objection and Shinori's vote on BBM were less than steller play, but booth of them feel like a null tell to me. Neither really indicates scummyness to me. I'm going to just *mutter* at Objection's reaction test, but what bugs me slightly more isn't the reaction test per say but what Objection has done with it. Or rather, the lack of what he's done with it. I'll won't pass judgement on if a reaction test in and of itself is scummy due to the arguments I've gotten into about this before, but the fact that he did a reaction test and then hasn't done a single thing with it is lazy and makes it seem like he did it just for the sake of doing something, not to be pro-town or anything. He claims he's busy, but will be keeping an eye on this.

For now, I'm going to

##Unvote

##Vote:Jalmont

Calls out Kay for not having any content when his content is just as patchy, then his next posts continue to not have anything about who is scummy/why they're scummy. Literally none of his posts have anything approaching legitimate views and the only thing he's been doing is spamming the thread.

In addition, I don't like Cam's empty unvote, but that's mostly just a dislike of doing that.

[Shinori]

Okay I'm here let me go read and get caught up.

[Shinori]

Because he hadn't posted yet and had a few votes on him already so I wanted to see if he'd react to another when he posted.

Jalmont, Kay's posted already.

This was the reasoning for swapping to weapons which seems weak and forced and I heavily dislike it.

Shinori, did you disregard the fact that BBM actually explained why he switched his vote later on? Don't even agree with the logic that votehopping in RVS is scummy, honestly. Having to be prodded to explain why something is scummy isn't exactly solid either.

Don't care for BBM's logic, don't care for voting him.

I didn't disregard it I just didn't like his explanation for it.

Grassbridger, I don't think you've even played a game with me when I've been scum. What style of mine are you referring to? You say that I'm making some weak claims, but that's something that any scum might do. What's the point of bringing up non-existent meta?

My defence of Objection doesn't help him explain anything away. Saying "I wouldn't OMGUS as town" isn't an explanation of why he voted for Shin.

Shinori, I explained why I randomly switched to Weapons. And even if I hadn't, what's scummy about that again? As for why he wouldn't do it as town, he might still do it, but the chance of it is less because even if you don't want to look scummy when you're town, that goal is secondary to catching scum, whereas when you're scum, it's the primary goal. Scum are more self-conscious than town are most of the time, so I don't see what's wrong with stating that something that looks remarkably self-unconscious from a player who's demonstrated that they're self-conscious as scum is somewhat of a towntell. I don't particularly care if it's based on meta either.

Because I saw literally no reason to swap off of jalmont and then randomly swap to weapons for no reason. It seemed random and awkward and forced. I disliked your reasoning for it.

What? That makes no sense. Shinori is advocating that I should have said nothing about Objection until he came into the thread to defend himself. How is that promoting discussion?

I was not saying that you should say nothing about it. But I'm pretty sure you could have promoted discussion in a different way other than talking for someone else. I don't entirely think it's townie for talking for someone else. In worst case scenario it could just help scum when they can just agree with what you said.

##Vote: Shinori

More pressure.

Hm?

ok jalmont is town?

i'll roll with it

This is nice.

i don't mean to speak for paper but i honestly can't see scum!anybody legitimately saying "oh hey let's try to deliberately lynch a townie"

like, as much as i disagree with refa's idea (lynching town = bad no matter what), i... i really don't think it's a scum move? it just seems too weird.

that does remind me to

##unvote

it was kind of a half-baked question to begin with, but my hope was more to get shinori's opinions on objection (as well as whether he thought the two were in cahoots)

actually since i'm on the subject i think i'll just ask shinori directly - Shinori pls respond how about dat objection

Didn't really care too much for Objections first post. Didn't really think it had scum intent behind it, really disliked his most recent post and his explanation behind his shin vote. However I think there are bigger fish to fry.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Weapons

Can you like do something? Every one of your posts have been one liners and worthless. I mean seriously.

>Is this RVS nowadays?

>Votes objection

>Votes me

>Is this normal?

>Jalmont is town.

There you go that was his posts.

[Jalmont]

For now, I'm going to

##Unvote

##Vote:Jalmont

Calls out Kay for not having any content when his content is just as patchy, then his next posts continue to not have anything about who is scummy/why they're scummy. Literally none of his posts have anything approaching legitimate views and the only thing he's been doing is spamming the thread.

nice you are really good at mafia i can't believe you caught me !! jeez some1 help me play im noob

I don't know what patchy means but I'm guessing the context is "posts they do not say why people are scummy." Hey guess what? It's day 1 - It's very difficult for me to take a single action on day 1 and be like "x is mafia because y." There's way too little information floating around to bother. Feel free to continue to misrepresent me by saying I was calling a person out for content when in reality I called them out because I saw them looking at the thread and not posting - when you don't have a lot of time you need people to post.

Sorry I didn't mean to spam your precious thread maybe I'll just leave this as my post for the day?

It's all about getting people to post, even "spam" has it's uses (strong opinion of the day pls).

real talk lets no lynch day 1 - for all intents in purposes it shouldn't happen later in the game, so why not use it now when we have such little information? if we are forced to lynch (ie mafia gets a free kill and no roles are passed out) obviously that's a bad idea, but where's the risk in no lynching, and having more info to work with tomorrow. i'm also fairly sure that we are left w/ 1 vanilla townie which helps us out kill wise.

or u can lynch me because i "literally" have no "legitimate" view (because apparently there is such a thing as an illegitimate view???)

[SB.]

we literally can't nl i think because of game mechanics and it's a bad idea anyway because flip = information, even if it's a town one

[Jalmont]

ok but still assuming we can - yes flips are info, but in the case of today there's a better chance of mislynching (because today's lynch is pretty much random, even with a slight increase due to "scumhunting" still more likely to mislynch) meaning that we lose a role. obviously the ideal result would be to lynch mafia, but the odds are tilted in favor lynching a townie so if we don't lynch today then every villager still gets a role.

throw this out if we can't nl, but i'm starting to think that this the optimal play because having an extra role is a benefit that will pay off in the future - mitigating the risk of taking a chance of hitting mafia

[Prims]

Day 1.6 - Votals

Shinori (4) - BBM, Paperblade, Refa, Weapons

Jalmont (3) - Kay, Grassbridger, scorri

CT075 (1) - Essbee

Kay (1) - Jalmont

Objection (1) - Boron

Paperblade (1) - kirsche

Refa (1) - Shin

Shin (1) - Objection

Weapons (1) - Shinori

Not Voting (1): CT075

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have 22 hours and 30 minutes left in the day.

Edited August 29, 2013 by mafia sucks

[scorri]

Technically we can no lynch once, but if we do it twice then everyone loses. No lynch isn't really the smart option. If we don't get flips, we don't get info and the mafia can just go kill whoever they want.

And "spam" posts aren't really helpful actually. If people are posting useless stuff, it doesn't help give reads and it can mask other reads. I don't want you to stop posting, I want you to stop posting posts that have no reads in them. Who do you think is scummy, why do you think they're scummy? Even gut reads are useful. And you can stop playing the noob card. It's not especially helpful and all it does is take up space.

Also, I'm confused.

if u guys want i can link you to my stuff??? i mean meta is a dum argument but i guess whatevs floats ur boat?

seems to imply that you've played games before. Is it just Choral Mafia or are there others? If so, then you really should stop playing the noob card. Most of what you've been doing has been appealing to people's emotions, trying to get them to feel bad for you so they won't vote you. That's not helpful to town. Scumhunt.

[Sunwoo]

Jalmont, there is always a greater risk of mislynching on D1. Always. Unless someone literally claims scum or gets unlucky enough to be the focus of everyone's attention and happens to be scum, there is a statistically greater risk of D1 mislynching. Lynching gives us flips, which sheds lights on how people had interacted with the flipped player, which allows us a better idea of what to think of those players. No lynching is a bad idea.

Objection's reaction test is ;/ and I really hope that people will stop saying things that make themselves look bad to ignite discussion. Yes, it ignites discussion, but it is the WRONG way to do it. Didn't people use to yell at Elie for doing this?

Weapons please contribute.

##Unvote

##Vote: Jalmont

Jalmont please contribute. Discussing mechanics doesn't help us find scum. I know it's D1 and it's early, but do you have ANY thoughts on anything that has happened in this thread? Any thoughts on any players at all? Anything you would like to share?

[Prims]

If no majority is reached, I will pick whoever I think looks the towniest as the D1 lynch, so don't miss deadline!

In case everyone somehow missed this. NL would otherwise mean no roles would be assigned. I get the feeling half the playerlist didn't read the mechanics either. Edited August 29, 2013 by mafia sucks