Junkhead Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Sometimes, I see complaints about guys not getting a girl's romantic interest because they're being "too nice", or...something like that. You know, the kind of guy that a girl considers more "like a brother" and stuff like that. Now, I doubt any person wouldn't appreciate someone that's nice, as a romantic partner. And by "nice", I mean, a person who's...I dunno, kind? Without having to be bound to things that people would normally think of, when they think of a "nice guy" (such as, being softie, spineless, guillable, etc.)? So yeah, I don't quite understand what's the matter in those cases. It's never happened to me (the times I've liked a girl, I've been neutral/indifferent towards them), but it makes me wonder why being "too nice" would be a reason not to find someone attractive. If you don't understand what I mean, just ask. I'll try to rephrase it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 "nice guys" tends to mean more like "guys who do nice things just for the sole purpose of getting a girl/guy to like them" as opposed to doing nice things for the sake of just being nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 the people who complain about other people rejecting them for being too nice have no idea why they were rejected in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Ohhhh, that also reminds me. There's two kinds of nice guys. There's the guy that does things to impress the girl, like you said...and the kind of "nice guy" that's pretty much just a softie, gentle person that gets pushed around and girls find "sweet" and see "like a brother". I'm referring to the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) friendzoned is something that entitled dickbags came up with anyway attraction can't be forced, friendship is no less important than a romantic relationship, and if you became friends with a girl JUST to try to date her you're a fucking asshole, faking an entire friendship to get with a girl are you fucking kidding me Rejection hurts, yes, but if you're actually friends with this girl without the intent of getting in her pants at first and just happen to become attracted to her then your friendship should be more fucking valuable than a relationship anyway They should be lucky to even be considered in the "friend-zone" instead of punch-zone or curbstomp-zone Also those assholes call themselves "nice guys" to mask the fact that they're fucking useless and have literally nothing to offer and they aren't even actually nice, their niceness is faked and as soon as they're rejected they reveal their true vitriolic misogynistic shitstain self. NOTHING entitles you to a relationship, no matter what you do. Attraction cannot be forced. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Deal with it. Edited May 3, 2014 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Basically what CR and Lumi said. To me, a "nice guy" - quotes included - is a person who does nice things for a girl for the SOLE purpose of wanting her to fall in love him. And when the girl doesn't develop feelings for him then he gets all bitter and that "girls don't like nice guys" and "why do all girls like bad boys?" and crap like that. A nice guy without the quotes is a guy who's a nice person. They're just polite and mature because that's who they ARE, not because they want anything. That makes all the difference. EDIT: Also, not all guys who are genuinely nice are nice in the same way or have the same personality, you know? It's perfectly possible for a girl to feel that one genuinely nice guy is brotherly to her, but feel that another genuinely nice guy is someone she's truly attracted to? Edited May 3, 2014 by Sangyul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 more or less what the others have said 'nice" guys aren't really nice, they need to man up and take the red pill. if you can't get a girl to like you then step up your game, improve yourself, learn how to talk to women, with enough work and decication they could snag that dream girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You don't snag women Women are not objects for you to win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I loathe "Nice Guys". These arent your average blokes just being friends with a girl. These are the cunts who actually try to be the Friend in order to get the girl to open her legs. The moment the girl says "No im sorry. I dont like you in that way." they get all pissy and throw a tantrum. "But i was nice to you! Why did you decide to go out with that douchebag? Hes not nice! Look how badly hes treating you! Im nice so i am entitled to you!" Fuck off. One guy got dangerously close to doing this with me. He paid the price. He paid alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 welp i misworded what i said with the snag line, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 More likely than not, the people who claim to be "nice guys" and complain about being "friendzoned" are the biggest assholes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyWalk Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) toppest of all lels Being "too nice" is just annoying and I can see why girls would be put off by these dudes. I personally, cannot handle people that are quick to give out compliments just to win me over as a friend, sure I won't start giving them shit or start teasing them, i'll even initiate conversation with them, but I immediately see them as something like a suck-up. I can only imagine their method of winning over a girl is the same. It's even worse with the "white knights" that feel the need to tell me something along the lines of not swearing to a girl/not calling her a cunt when it's perfectly playful banter and she's doing the same to me. I actually haven't heard anybody complain about being friendzoned, if you have, you're probably a person easily manipulated into thinking doing something for someone equals respect. If you're a gentle person, there is nothing wrong with that. However if on top of that, you're easily pushed around, then who would want to be with you? How do you positively reflect this person if you are seen with them? This goes for both genders. Edited May 3, 2014 by Alb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 There are two sides to every coin. friendzoned is something that entitled dickbags came up with anyway attraction can't be forced, friendship is no less important than a romantic relationship, and if you became friends with a girl JUST to try to date her you're a fucking asshole, faking an entire friendship to get with a girl are you fucking kidding me Rejection hurts, yes, but if you're actually friends with this girl without the intent of getting in her pants at first and just happen to become attracted to her then your friendship should be more fucking valuable than a relationship anyway They should be lucky to even be considered in the "friend-zone" instead of punch-zone or curbstomp-zone Also those assholes call themselves "nice guys" to mask the fact that they're fucking useless and have literally nothing to offer and they aren't even actually nice, their niceness is faked and as soon as they're rejected they reveal their true vitriolic misogynistic shitstain self. NOTHING entitles you to a relationship, no matter what you do. Attraction cannot be forced. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Deal with it. Basically what CR and Lumi said. To me, a "nice guy" - quotes included - is a person who does nice things for a girl for the SOLE purpose of wanting her to fall in love him. And when the girl doesn't develop feelings for him then he gets all bitter and that "girls don't like nice guys" and "why do all girls like bad boys?" and crap like that. A nice guy without the quotes is a guy who's a nice person. They're just polite and mature because that's who they ARE, not because they want anything. That makes all the difference. All of this is unnecessarily harsh (these and all posts since). Yes, these situations can exist, but it's not always the case, and I'm not even sure it's the more common case. Most people I know who have said they were "friendzoned" did not become friends with the girl just to date her. They started as normal friends and eventually developed stronger feelings for the girl, but she still thought of him as "just a friend." They also don't consider themselves entitled; they are lamenting their unrequited love, yes, but at the end of the day they know that this is her choice. Besides, the whole "friendzone" phenomenon and girls preferring "bad boys" is neither anything new nor a surprise. Teenagers (which is where we most commonly see friendzoning) have a tendency to go for what they can't have or is difficult to attain. Someone who is friendzoned (it can be a boy or girl) is someone who the other party sees as someone they can easily have, and that lessens the appeal. Your typical "bad boy" doesn't have that stigma attached. There are plenty of other factors attributable to the stereotypes, of course, but as far as friendzoning, this is the basics. And the same is true for both genders, of course. Girls like "bad boys." Guys like to "win" their girl. The topic is touchy and there's a lot of sexism that can crawl its way through for both sides, so everyone should be careful what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) One seeming historian of the term [e: "nice guy"] I heard, himself possibly of questionable repute, claimed it had "changed," referring to it thus: "It used to mean a guy who never had the balls to get what he wanted, who'd always be pushed around and never get anywhere with women.* Now, feminists have taken it over and made it into some bogeyman who fits whatever their pet pissy fit of the moment is, though.**" *something a guy would call a guy, I think was the takeaway **something a girl would call a guy? So. There's that perspective. Didn't get involved in that discussion personally. (for my part I have no idea what other people find attractive, and it's not exactly relevant very often (for me, huh huh huh) so I just try to be cool to them) Edited May 3, 2014 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 RFoF, I agreed with Lumi's "attraction can't be forced" part. I don't really care if a bunch of "entitled douchebags" came up with the term friend zone. MY definition of a "nice guy" is one who is an entitled fuck. I KNOW that not all guys who talk about "the friend zone" became friends with the girl just to date her, and I know a lot of them are not entitled or jerks. However, I DO have a problem with guys who literally just want to be friends with a girl and then complain and throw a hissy fit when they don't get it. The "friend zone" and "all girls want bad boys" is a pretty harmful view on the "other sex" anyway. It defines things on what you cannot have and has a "sour grapes" kind of attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Lamenting unrequited love is reasonable and all, but complaining about "friendzoned" is not. It implies that you feel that friendship is only second string to a relationship. It's entirely okay to feel sad about rejection, but when you do the whole "but I'm such a nice guy" thing that's when it's bullshit. Putting the blame on the woman in question for not being attracted to you when you yourself don't have the qualities she find attractive. That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with feeling bad about getting rejected. There is everything wrong with pitting that rejection as "friendzoned" and using that bullshit "nice-guy" rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Lamenting unrequited love is reasonable and all, but complaining about "friendzoned" is not. It implies that you feel that friendship is only second string to a relationship. It's entirely okay to feel sad about rejection, but when you do the whole "but I'm such a nice guy" thing that's when it's bullshit. Putting the blame on the woman in question for not being attracted to you when you yourself don't have the qualities she find attractive. That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with feeling bad about getting rejected. There is everything wrong with pitting that rejection as "friendzoned" and using that bullshit "nice-guy" rhetoric. This. Also the whole "girls want bad boys" thing is fucking rubbish. You know what girls want? They want a guy whos confident and not cripplingly insecure. It has little to do with being "wild" and "unruly" or even a douchebag. Girls want someone they are attracted to. If that girl isnt attracted to your neckbeard ass, oh well. Deal with it. If that dude with tattoos is what does it for her, wynaut? Whats the problem? I know i dont want a 'bad boy'. Hell nah. I want a bloke who can help me build a future and is really amazing in the sack. Read: NOT BAD BOY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) toppest of all lels Being "too nice" is just annoying and I can see why girls would be put off by these dudes. I personally, cannot handle people that are quick to give out compliments just to win me over as a friend, sure I won't start giving them shit or start teasing them, i'll even initiate conversation with them, but I immediately see them as something like a suck-up. I can only imagine their method of winning over a girl is the same. It's even worse with the "white knights" that feel the need to tell me something along the lines of not swearing to a girl/not calling her a cunt when it's perfectly playful banter and she's doing the same to me. I actually haven't heard anybody complain about being friendzoned, if you have, you're probably a person easily manipulated into thinking doing something for someone equals respect. If you're a gentle person, there is nothing wrong with that. However if on top of that, you're easily pushed around, then who would want to be with you? How do you positively reflect this person if you are seen with them? This goes for both genders. Imagining somebody who could fit the bill of "easily pushed around," without taking the whole friendzone victim complex/whatever into the equation, I'd think somebody like that could just have social problems in general. Or low self-esteem or something. (I probably could've/do fit that bill some. At least, the thought "who would want to be with you"* sounds a lot like the kind of thought that would come up a lot, without anybody actually saying anything like it, when my social anxiety's gotten particularly bad.) *context assumed: in both a romantic and/or friendly sense, sorta regardless of gender Edited May 3, 2014 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Girls want someone they are attracted to. omg, I've been thinking about that. Some guys seem to think that attracting a girl involves being her pet and filling her with compliments here and there, or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 omg, I've been thinking about that. Some guys seem to think that attracting a girl involves being her pet and filling her with compliments here and there, or something. You know what that being the Doormat Mr. Compliment sends to girls? That is the big fucking siren that goes WEEEOOOO WEEEEOOOO THIS GUY IS FUCKING INSECURE! ABORT! ABORT! Look thread, if you are friends with a girl and like her in that way, but she doesnt reciprocate, dont be pissy about it. If shes really your friend, being put in the "friendzone" (ugh) isnt a bad thing at all. It means shes still your friend. If you are friends with someone, you want whats best for them. You want them to be happy. If they are happy with That Other Guy, be happy for them. Its not hard. If they are your friend, truly, it wont be painful for you to be happy for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) MY definition of a "nice guy" is one who is an entitled fuck.All nice guys are entitled fucks? And you're talking about harmful views of the "other sex?" Lamenting unrequited love is reasonable and all, but complaining about "friendzoned" is not. It implies that you feel that friendship is only second string to a relationship. It's entirely okay to feel sad about rejection, but when you do the whole "but I'm such a nice guy" thing that's when it's bullshit. Putting the blame on the woman in question for not being attracted to you when you yourself don't have the qualities she find attractive. That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with feeling bad about getting rejected. There is everything wrong with pitting that rejection as "friendzoned" and using that bullshit "nice-guy" rhetoric. For the record, I'm not putting the blame on either side. I just think you're taking this offensively when (at least sometimes) it isn't offensive at all. A guy/girl likes a girl/guy but is told by the other that they want to remain "just friends." That's called being friendzoned. What about that is a problem? How is it putting the blame on anyone? How does it even imply that friendship is second string to relationship? Yes, there are cases where those problems crop up, and you have every right to be mad about them, but you're being unfair to the other side. I don't believe in the idea that "guys and girls can't be just friends," but it's a social stereotype for a reason. People naturally want relationship, and if you meet someone you come to really like, you're going to want to take it to the next step. Frankly speaking, many people find it very difficult to remain "just friends" with someone they want but who doesn't want them, and neither can they choose to like them less. That's not speaking bad about either side, it's just the way we are. Also the whole "girls want bad boys" thing is fucking rubbish. You know what girls want? They want a guy whos confident and not cripplingly insecure. It has little to do with being "wild" and "unruly" or even a douchebag. Girls want someone they are attracted to. If that girl isnt attracted to your neckbeard ass, oh well. Deal with it. If that dude with tattoos is what does it for her, wynaut? Whats the problem? I know i dont want a 'bad boy'. Hell nah. I want a bloke who can help me build a future and is really amazing in the sack. Read: NOT BAD BOY. One of my favorite sayings is "stereotypes exist for a reason." So, why do you think this stereotype exists? Almost every stereotype has some truth in it, and I believe this one does, too. Aside from your first sentence, I think everything you said is absolutely correct. It makes sense in the end: a "bad boy" comes with the confidence and the sense of security that girls seek out, or it's at least more obvious in them. It's practically the definition. "Nice guys" don't come with those attributes automatically, and that's where your generic hero stories come from. You're ten years older than the kind of girls who want "bad boys." Most people on this site are probably not this kind of person in the first place. If you are friends with someone, you want whats best for them. You want them to be happy. If they are happy with That Other Guy, be happy for them. Its not hard. If they are your friend, truly, it wont be painful for you to be happy for themHowever, I disagree with this. It's a lot easier said than done to be genuinely happy for a person in such a situation. Edited May 3, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You're ten years older than the kind of girls who want "bad boys." Most people on this site are probably not this kind of person in the first place. You know...i remember what it was like to be 17. To be hormonal and kinda indecisive. Did i go out with the "bad boy" in those days? Not really. My taste in men was a long haired dude who pleased my eye. "Badness" was not required. My very first boyfriend was not a "bad boy" or even all that confident. I dated him cuz we had shit in common and he pleased my eye. It seems to me you might not have a lot of experience dating men, Red Fox. Either that or you just never had someone attempt to manipulate you in this manner. Cuz ill tell you. Its not nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) All nice guys are entitled fucks? And you're talking about harmful views of the "other sex?" RFoF, you are COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTANDING (either unintentionally or willfully) my definition of a nice guy. A "nice guy" with the quotes is an entitled fuck. A nice guy without the quotes is a genuinely nice guy who is a nice person. See the difference? Edited May 3, 2014 by Sangyul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) There is a distinction between a nice guy who offers you lifts to your house and is generally, you know, a decent friend without expecting anything in return, and the Nice Guy (capitals important) who offers to walk you home m'lady *tips fedora* and spends the entire time staring at your chest and whines when that doesn't somehow get them laid and thinks 'the friend zone' unironically exists The latter is rare at least in the circles of decent people I associate with, I think it's mostly just angry geeks on Reddit and TVTropes who don't know any women anyway, but it's certainly an attitude that exists and needs to be purged Edited May 3, 2014 by Parrhesia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) IMO stereotypes only tend to have "some truth" to them in the sense that somebody might need to bring up the context of the individual cases they're taken to apply to in order to disprove their absoluteness, but I guess that's just responding to a generalization with another generalization. A side note: one of the factors that led to me and my ex getting together, at 17 or so, was that I was doing almost the polar opposite of anything that could be called being a dad boy or hard to get. Same with a couple of friends we had, who're still together last I checked? So, the extent to how common those lines are has just kinda bemused me for awhile. I think it might,- it might be a personal taste thing, maybe? e: I am leaving "dad boy" here for posterity, to share it with the world (and to question how I missed B by so much) Edited May 3, 2014 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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