Fire Emblem Awakening DLC Mafia [ Game Over ]

[Snike]

Still reading. Got distracted by supper, so I'm only on like page 13.

Thoughts on current page:

-Odd night tracker could also not catch Makaze in the event that the mafia decided to no kill night one, in addition to previous complaints.

-Related to that, Gaius, ngl, you really shouldn't have claimed so flippantly. By doing that you've both put a target on your back and narrowed the pool of targets for other power roles. Over an inconclusive result. :/

[ZoesMad]

Never had an investigative role before :/, I thought it would be good to have all info available to us if we do decide on a Makaze lynch.

[Shin]

DEAD

This is closest to an N1 nightkill I'll ever get, I am yet to achieve my mafia dream.

DEAD

[Snike]

Never had an investigative role before :/, I thought it would be good to have all info available to us if we do decide on a Makaze lynch.

If you have a null/ innocent result as an investigative role , you keep it to yourself until the player is threatened by near deadline or hammer lynch/ you're threatened/ it's late game and outing it helps PoE. The real issue is, assuming you're telling the truth (I have no opinion on that yet), you got a null result on Night 1, where it would be the easiest to be inaccurate. It doesn't really change the current situation, so it shouldn't have been outed.

Just keep things like that in mind in the future.

[Eurykins]

You guys. Let a No Lynch go through. In Day 2 phase end. What the literal hell guys. >_>

Makaze's Vanilla claim holds no bearing/effect on my prior reads/notion against him, and I still want him lynched (especially since people flaked/failed hardcore to even secure a D2 lynch). I also don't care for the "It wouldn't be in my interest/choice to kill Shin for X/Y/Z reasons", as NK's won't necessarily read black/white in terms of intentions (and if another scum buddy was being suspected by Shin instead, then why not [shin's death doesn't have to be explicitly in favor of/due to Makaze himself.]? Shin was, as a whole, being read as townie by most of the player base, so no matter who specifically killed him- his death is a solid one for scum to execute).

LG needlessly outing a claim/PR shouldn't have been done, especially with little to no reason to do so. There could be multiple reasons as to why he didn't visit someone on N1, and it certainly didn't warrant feeding that information for free to the scum team. :/

On that same note (as LG), Strawman likewise unnecessarily prompted LG for sensitive/role-based information, which sounds pretty damn bad to me. There was no reason to fish as hard as you did there (when he'd already implied that his knowledge was ROLE BASED), and all this did was pan out more freebie info for scum.

Today's priority (as far as I stand currently)

Makaze >>>> Strawman (for blatantly role fishing when it was highly unnecessary, and I'll be re-reading him later to verify whether he as a whole stays in my scumdar read/priority) > LG/PB (from prior reads/cases already stated in the past day phase)

##Vote: Makaze

[Snike]

eury stop reading my mind kthx

I'm not entirely caught up yet but IMO Strawman looks a bit worse, if only because said fishing was on one of the newer players. It sorta looks a little like an abuse of experience, but I may be reading into it too much.

[Snike]

OK, thread read. Here's who gets my vote for scummiest scum!

##Vote: Strawman

Hi. While I appreciate what you did to start D1, you literally went from promising an explanation on the Makaze train to fishing for role from Gaius today. Beyond that and gut read, I don't think you've done much besides ED1.

Honorable Mentions:

Paperblade (Eury case is weak, especially because of how you defended Mancer. I mean Shinori VS Eury is fine, but then you suggest Mancer is clear because FFM wouldn't bus. FFM also smeared Eury with that post, arguably worst than the Mancer vote [hypocrisy > going after inactivity, wrt scumminess imo], so why isn't she clear by same basis? Other part of it is gut.)

Eclipse( Mancer struck me as different from his usual being wrong in tone this game, + pre sub smear of Previous!Me was really bad. Post sub, bothered by the mention of ITP and no mention of the no kill rule. Don't like dismissal of Gaius' read because while it's true Mancer has a LYNCH ME sign attached to his back, you can't just use that to wave his whole iso, especially the stuff almost immediately pre-sub.)

I'm not voting HM's right now because I'm a bit worried my reads on them might be tainted by associative, and I feel more strongly about strawman than those two (gut).

Re: Makaze Wagon: I think the 'I'm town, man' is almost a bit of a slip in the sense that stuff like that and his recent post about Gaius' role reads like something he'd say as town. I am not 100% about that but I'm confident enough that I'm not going to vote him.

Ghoulin' needs to show up, or I'll go CCG on him.

[Makaze]

Definitely suspecting Eury. Something isn't right about the way she's making her arguments. They seem contrived, less intelligent than her at her best. She also dropped her PB scumread without a mention of why. What changed?

I wasn't rolefishing, for what it's worth. As far as I knew it was simple elimination and scum had already come to the conclusion I had. I couldn't do any more damage than he already did. He was dead either way. All I could do was clear me all the way.

##Vote Eurykins

[Paperblade]

Shin had no suspicion on him and led a lynch on a mafia member, reasons to kill him are obvious imo. If anything I think a lack of Shinori kill is more interesting but maybe that implies they think they can mislynch him or wanted to kill an unknown role over someone probably out of shots?

I don't think maf would intentionally no kill after they got lynched D1. It might be useful to massclaim at this stage because Gaius/Shinori are outed and Makaze probably isn't being lynched either.

I don't see anything wrong with what StSS posted, I would've asked the same thing. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53264&view=findpost&p=3736537bothers me more than that tbh

I feel like Eury should know better than to paint that as scummy, but idk

[Paperblade]

##Vote: Eurykins

[Strawman]

Strawman, why are you using your Super Rod?

Am going to disagree with Poly on reason why vanilla roleclaim doesn't matter to much: It's not that the mafia has a goon which is why it means little; it's more that unless I missed that rule, inspects are not 100% guaranteed. If confirmed vanilla though, it's more of a townie side because in this setup multiple scum vanillas would be lame.

Makaze's defense relies on WIFOM, as an added note.

On that same note (as LG), Strawman likewise unnecessarily prompted LG for sensitive/role-based information, which sounds pretty damn bad to me. There was no reason to fish as hard as you did there (when he'd already implied that his knowledge was ROLE BASED), and all this did was pan out more freebie info for scum.

Today's priority (as far as I stand currently)

Makaze >>>> Strawman (for blatantly role fishing when it was highly unnecessary, and I'll be re-reading him later to verify whether he as a whole stays in my scumdar read/priority) > LG/PB (from prior reads/cases already stated in the past day phase)

##Vote: Makaze

OK, thread read. Here's who gets my vote for scummiest scum!

##Vote: Strawman

Hi. While I appreciate what you did to start D1, you literally went from promising an explanation on the Makaze train to fishing for role from Gaius today. Beyond that and gut read, I don't think you've done much besides ED1.

Right, my "rolefish" there was meant to be asking if it was alignment indicative, both actually and in his opinion (to see if its worth it taking two days to case and lynch the same person due to crappy activity {myself especially included} and an incomplete understanding of the rules), but I worded it poorly, so it looked like I was looking for info on LG's role instead of on Makaze

The reason why I "switched" to that instead of giving justification on Makaze was because LG's information seemed more pressing, especially if indicative of alignment, and it seemed pertinent to address. That will come soon.

@Eury, you still think LG is third scummiest with his claim? What would the scum motivation be behind it?

[ZoesMad]

Snike, I don't think casing Strawman is really a good idea. This was more or less my inexperience with this kind of role. I had already softclaimed investigative role, so that would paint a target on my back already.

[Eurykins]

Definitely suspecting Eury. Something isn't right about the way she's making her arguments. They seem contrived, less intelligent than her at her best. She also dropped her PB scumread without a mention of why. What changed?

I wasn't rolefishing, for what it's worth. As far as I knew it was simple elimination and scum had already come to the conclusion I had. I couldn't do any more damage than he already did. He was dead either way. All I could do was clear me all the way.

##Vote Eurykins

So, if I'm understanding your "case on me correctly".

> "Something isn't right about your arguments" (and yet you fail to bring up specific posts/examples- this in itself seems odd to me in terms of your gameplay).

> "Contrived and less intelligent than her at her best." = Thank you for implying that I sound non-intelligent with my notions/cases. However, do avoid attacking the person and instead focus on the words/content instead.

> "She dropped her PB scum read." ...Excuse me? I explicitly put IN MY LAST POST that LG/PB cases/notions/priority STILL REMAINED (Yes, even with LG's claim. Like Makaze's Vanilla claim, I really don't see much weight with his claim, especially with the fact that the information does/says absolutely nothing to me). I do not see how this is true at all- please avoid spewing such lies in terms of what I have and haven't said/presented.

All of these (in lieu of the last one being completely inaccurate) are completely garbage points/reasons to even pull up a scum read on me, Makaze. It's like you're not even trying to play this game at all, and the lack of effort (and having to read/respond to such barking nonsense) is very unlike you, which is why you're still my top scum read at this point in time.

Shin had no suspicion on him and led a lynch on a mafia member, reasons to kill him are obvious imo. If anything I think a lack of Shinori kill is more interesting but maybe that implies they think they can mislynch him or wanted to kill an unknown role over someone probably out of shots?

I don't think maf would intentionally no kill after they got lynched D1. It might be useful to massclaim at this stage because Gaius/Shinori are outed and Makaze probably isn't being lynched either.

I don't see anything wrong with what StSS posted, I would've asked the same thing. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53264&view=findpost&p=3736537bothers me more than that tbh

I feel like Eury should know better than to paint that as scummy, but idk

Please. You vote me (just as Makaze does soon after) for the flimsiest of cases/notions, it's incredible. Likewise unlike a lot of town!blade gameplays I've seen/have experienced myself. Another reason why you're still on my scumdar (but below Makaze in priority).

BTW: The fact that Makaze was never hammered in D2, as well, makes him seem even worse IMO. I doubt scum would hesitate to remove 2 townies in one day phase (due to Shinori offing Rapier), and had Makaze flipped town even due to a hammer, there's not a whole lot of suspicion that would've been garnered in the hammering itself (as there NEEDED to be a hammer to secure a day lynch, but as we all saw, that didn't happen). So from my PoV, Makaze is almost indefinitely scum, and LG's notion of him not acting in N1 says absolutely nothing to prove anything in his (Makaze's) defense/favor.

[Makaze]

I think it's obvious why I wasn't lynched yesterday. All of the scum had already voted for me.

[Makaze]

Or the last scum was too timid to draw attention to themselves. Which reminds me, what was with Poly? Why ask if you should hammer, be told you should, and then choose a No Lynch instead? Bad play as either alignment though.

[Eurykins]

Oops, missed a quote/reply:

@Eury, you still think LG is third scummiest with his claim? What would the scum motivation be behind it?

Scum motivation: Claiming a role that would be "clearing" a fellow scum buddy of course. Or otherwise claiming a role that (given what role we lost on Rapier), town would show little interest in willing to risk/lose.

For example: If scum knows that there is no actual Tracker on town side, then it's easy for them to safely claim it (and it's not uncommon for mods to hand out things like that either- fake claims), especially after we lost an investigative role last day phase. One of many plausible events that could've transpired thus far.

[Makaze]

"She dropped her PB scum read." ...Excuse me? I explicitly put IN MY LAST POST that LG/PB cases/notions/priority STILL REMAINED (Yes, even with LG's claim. Like Makaze's Vanilla claim, I really don't see much weight with his claim, especially with the fact that the information does/says absolutely nothing to me). I do not see how this is true at all- please avoid spewing such lies in terms of what I have and haven't said/presented.

It seems you're right. I missed the footnote and thought you dropped it since you didn't dedicate a paragraph to him. Sorry.

Right now something that is is setting off alarms is how defensive you are. You're treating everything like it's a personal attack. Say they have bad reasons all you want, you're attacking people for having cases on you. Like I said in one of my first posts, scum tend to get especially upset when cased for bad reasons. More than town in the same situation. That's my experience. You don't have a rational reason to get this upset. Gut reads exist. Couple them with the causes and you get what can be called "irrational" cases. You know that. People don't always need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to be convinced you're scum. Intuition is behind nearly everything I've done this game.

What do you make of recent Poly content?

[Eurykins]

My irritation/defensiveness in terms of my responses come from the fact that multiple people have repeatedly placed votes/cases on me for literally NO reason. In another game specifically, I was once again MISLYNCHED for NO REASON. The point stands that, after a while, shit like that gets irritating, whether it's constantly being misrepped, people actually fabricating points against me, or otherwise people see the flimsiest of cases on me as being completely legitimate reasons (while trying to convince others of the same thing) when they're far from me.

I suppose you could say it's also mildly annoying when, throughout this game, people have overall shown very little to almost NO effort in terms of quality of posting. ED1 was literally retarded in terms of people not wanting to post. The fact of what happened in the end of D2 was likewise terrible. And the fact that the usual "Quality" town players like yourself and others are basically shit-posting by only doing the bare minimal in terms of posting (IE. Just sheeping reads/posts/etc. and not really putting forth much of your OWN actual content) makes reading the posts/people in this game incredibly dull and otherwise very lackluster of a game, honestly. Town-side clearly lacks much effort/will to even participate fully in this game, and at this point, despite me attempting to continue pushing more life into this game, this game is one of the slowest games and crappiest in terms of quality of gameplay/interactions/posting.

I also find it very insulting to the Mods/creators of this game (and everyone else co-hosting) when people do this in games, not only to the hosts but also to the player base. The only ones who are actually exempt from this notion are the ones legitimately busy with IRL things, but even so (like Eclipse, whom I know to usually be busy with many things) they manage SOME content (and Mancer, I believe, subbed out due to being busy IRL which in itself is understandable). The rest of the players though- the ones who are not only posting sparingly, but posting no REAL CONTENT/effort, seriously peeves me at times.

So you could say my mildly irritated responses is probably a mixture of the above.

Wrt Poly: IDEK. He posted like, once, so far this day phase? He also fucked up when it came to not securing a lynch (he should've just voted to hammer instead of asking around "SHOULD I HAMMER?" when it was clear you were top lynch priority by the end of the day phase). He waffled a crapton for whatever larger posts he put out during later D2, none of which I was overly impressed with, and all in all, he's not produced anything truly meaningful in his posts/cases.

He's one of the good handful of people who fall under the "lack of meaningful content/posting/contribution to this game" category that have led to him being pretty unmemorable to me, so there's that as well.

[eclipse]

Thread title and OP needs fixed.

I'll answer any questions you might have. For now, I probably wouldn't have killed Shin as scum since he was one of the only people who didn't suspect me.

That's what scumbuddies are for. ;/

In other words, just like your assertion that you're town, this says nothing about your alignment.

Solely role related. I'd have to claim to reveal it, not really sure if it's the correct time to...

What. No.

I don't like this for three reasons. First, there's passive roles on both sides of the fence (LIKE GODFATHER), so this tells me nothing about Makaze's alignment. Second, Makaze could be a role that idled. Third, that's a lot of power roles in a game where a mafia goon has flipped.

The only reason why my vote hasn't gravitated there RIGHT NOW is because I need a bit more time to think about this. I can see why you'd claim this to save a scumbuddy, especially after the D1/N1 phase.

Do you care to share this info?

What. No.

It's not nice to ask other people about their role info, especially when they're not in danger of being lynched.

Shin had no suspicion on him and led a lynch on a mafia member, reasons to kill him are obvious imo. If anything I think a lack of Shinori kill is more interesting but maybe that implies they think they can mislynch him or wanted to kill an unknown role over someone probably out of shots?

I don't think maf would intentionally no kill after they got lynched D1. It might be useful to massclaim at this stage because Gaius/Shinori are outed and Makaze probably isn't being lynched either.

I don't see anything wrong with what StSS posted, I would've asked the same thing. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53264&view=findpost&p=3736537bothers me more than that tbh

I feel like Eury should know better than to paint that as scummy, but idk

This feels like a really subtle attempt to smear Shinori. Is he scum? Why or why not?

Even if he's off and disappeared to who-knows-where, I'd rather any suspicions be outed as such, even if it's "my inner goddess said so".

Also, other than an Eury vote, you've said nothing about your other reads. Let's say that Eury claims something that gets her out of a lynch. Who's next?

-Odd night tracker could also not catch Makaze in the event that the mafia decided to no kill night one, in addition to previous complaints.

While this would normally hold, logically speaking, the D1 lynch was mafia. Thus, it would be really illogical for the mafia to intentionally withhold their kill, since they're already behind on numbers.

Eclipse( Mancer struck me as different from his usual being wrong in tone this game, + pre sub smear of Previous!Me was really bad. Post sub, bothered by the mention of ITP and no mention of the no kill rule. Don't like dismissal of Gaius' read because while it's true Mancer has a LYNCH ME sign attached to his back, you can't just use that to wave his whole iso, especially the stuff almost immediately pre-sub.)

ilu too.

I'll speak for myself, since it's easiest, and I need to address stuff in Serious Discussion.

I already mentioned why no-killing would be completely out of left field on N1. I worded the comment about the no-kill night like that for a very specific reason, and it's not alignment-related. Lastly, quote which parts of Gaius' ISO I waved off, because my issue is that if person A is voting for person B, and you're scumreading both, voting for person B using person A's logic implies that you agree with person A's logic. . .which makes no sense, if you think person A is scum.

After some rereading, I'm kinda bothered by this slot, but for a completely different reason. . .namely, this. . .

If confirmed vanilla though, it's more of a townie side because in this setup multiple scum vanillas would be lame.

The only things you could know about the setup if you're town are people who flipped and yourself. If you're mafia, you most likely have an idea of what your buddies can do. If you're ITP, you'll have a better idea of how the game is set up, since they typically have things that negate certain roles.

In other words, you said more than you meant to, and this rubs me really wrong. . .especially after you chided Lord Gaius about the same thing (though the latter was a lot more direct). Given the circumstances, I'm reading this as ever-so-slightly scummy.

Snike, I don't think casing Strawman is really a good idea. This was more or less my inexperience with this kind of role. I had already softclaimed investigative role, so that would paint a target on my back already.

This is bad, but for a different reason. Snike's case is for actual gameplay reasons, and there's no reason to randomly defend someone from a single vote.

Right now something that is is setting off alarms is how defensive you are. You're treating everything like it's a personal attack. Say they have bad reasons all you want, you're attacking people for having cases on you. Like I said in one of my first posts, scum tend to get especially upset when cased for bad reasons. More than town in the same situation. That's my experience. You don't have a rational reason to get this upset. Gut reads exist. Couple them with the causes and you get what can be called "irrational" cases. You know that. People don't always need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to be convinced you're scum. Intuition is behind nearly everything I've done this game.

Your case was condescending, and I don't blame Eury for reacting that way. Furthermore, you didn't respond to her points at all. The sense I get is that you provoked her, she responded, and now you're holding the emotion against her.

---

Not too keen on Poly flaking, but I'll chalk that up to Poly being Poly (but next time, fucking hammer if there's fifteen minutes left). If we're going off solely off of Shin reads, I'd lynch Paperblade over Eury, simply because that sort of kill is right up his alley. I don't really have a huge issue with Eury's post right now, and Paperblade's mention of Shinori doesn't really sit right with me. Strawman's Gaius prod was bad, but he's got less content than me, which is why he's mildly scummy for it, at worst.

As I need to decide whether or not I think Gaius is town and playing badly or scum trying to save a buddy (since he knew this info on D2, and continued to advocate Makaze's lynch despite that), I'll hold off on a vote. If I decide the latter, though, I'd rather have Makaze lynched, since he's already claimed vanilla. The third option is scum buddying hard to town. . .bah, I'll decide later, or town catching non-visiting scum. . .bah, too many combos.

So, it's either make up my mind regarding Gaius/Makaze, or vote Paperblade/Snike/Strawman (though the last one is mostly due to lack of content) based off of very small things. However, Makaze sort of made up my mind for me.

##Vote: Makaze

First, you follow people around, and once you do get your own case, you use emotion to support it. The first one would've been excusable if you were a mason and didn't know how to play the role (which was the logic I came up with in the middle of D2, then discarded the minute Rapier flipped). The second one isn't.

[Makaze]

May as well hammer it then, but please get an answer from Eury about Poly.

[Makaze]

##Votal

[Makaze]

Day 1: Automated Votals from #1 to #446

Phase End

<Beta v0.1.7>

[Makaze]

Oops. My bad. Sorry.

[Eurykins]

May as well hammer it then, but please get an answer from Eury about Poly.

...I don't know if I want to facepalm or headdesk more. >_>;;

TL;DR on Poly (since I don't think you read between the lines with my description/take on Poly- if I'm mistaken, then I stand corrected): He's messed up a few of his plays (namely D2 lynch), and has otherwise not provided much at all in terms of quality contribution gameplay/posting content-wise as a whole, I feel. Therefore, I am bothered by his player slot, and his lack of presence in the thread as a whole is pinging me in a negative fashion. Whether his activity (or lackthereof) directly correlates to him being scummy, it's honestly hard for me to fully pin down (gauging by his usual sporadic gameplay), but there is definite opinions currently that is making me eye his slot with dissatisfaction and in a non-townie light.

[Makaze]

That was what I read between the lines. Null leaning anti-town, or, noncommital read that might change with one real content post from him. I found it odd you would suspect me so strongly but don't draw conclusions from his not hammering me. If you think I'm scum then it seems like a logical next step to suspect him? Is there something wrong with that theory?