Tables

Pretty much perfect, answers the vast majority of what I was wondering. Still curious on the enemy stats bit. I've already been taking a snapshot of 4-5 enemies per chapter on Revelation (linky) but am wondering if anyone has already done this and recorded everything already.

Is there anywhere (or anyone) which lists any of the following for Fates: Various formulae including EXP gains, weapon rank bonuses and weapon triangle bonuses. What class bonuses enemies get for e.g. Berserker/Swordmaster/Sorcerer (since I know they're different to the bonuses the player gets in those classes) Enemy stats, or at least boss stats, in any Fates games or difficulties. Or further to this one, a more in depth comparison across the different difficulties. I'm considering working out the EXP formula if nobody else has done it, just as I did with Awakening, and I'm recording a snapshot of enemy stats/equipment/skills/number of enemies on each difficulty as I play through Revelation but if that data already exists, it's kinda pointless to do.

Bravely Default is an amazing game, great plot (until about 2/3rds of the way through), engaging combat systems, and the lategame has some really fun optional boss fights. One thing some people complain about is the game repeating itself, but yeah it doesn't. You do have to fight four bosses four times each, which is pretty annoying, but it doesn't take too long, and you get the above mentioned awesome optional boss fights during it. Sadly the plot takes a bit of a nosedive around chapter 7, where without spoilers, basically the plot only works if you assume all of the main characters are idiots. The second half of the final chapter makes up for it somewhat though. Bravely Second is a great sequel as well, to follow it up. Many improved Quality of Life options compared to Default, a more consistently good but slightly less exciting plot. Sadly no fun optional lategame boss fights, but at least the game has far less repeated content. I really enjoyed Mercenary Saga 2 on the 3DS. It's a fairly cheap Indie game on eShop, which feels a bit like a blend of Fire Emblem and Bravely Mechanics in a simplified graphical shell. Characters level up and change classes, learn new abilities which you can mix and match however you want to build a team, as you fight through the story.

I'm going to say probably but it's outside the scope of what I want to do, and also what I know how to do easily. Pirate would make more sense, but I don't think it's a change I'm a big fan of. It's a pretty big change to how the character behaves, and also would require an Ocean Seal to promote him back up, which you only get one of. As for if he would be better or worse, well, it would depend entirely on what I did with his stats in the process. If I kept them all the same and made him a level 15 Pirate he'd be better. If I dropped his stats by his promotion bonuses, he'd likely be way worse (having 5 more slightly quicker level ups doesn't make up for a big drop in stats to begin with, especially when he also needs to consume a promotion item). I'd be much happier just giving him a stat buff. Anyway at this point I think I'm pretty close to implementing changes I've been saying and putting out a version 1.2 patch.

You find chapter 6 easy? I'd say it's among the 5 hardest stages in the game. Definitely the hardest before the route split, at least. Enemy stats should be basically fixed if you restart the game each attempt, but otherwise, this is just how the GBA FE's work, sigh. There's one Cavalier that has boosted stats, who starts in the north. All of them should be pretty consistent statwise - well, consistent by GBA FE standards - except that one strong guy. I don't know why they made him much stronger, but I found he wasn't much of an issue (he has about 9 AS because he's weighed down IIRC) so I just left him.

Super Pupil now has 7 con, the same as Sage, so the CON issue doesn't exist any more. Honestly, Super Pupil could probably get A Dark, A Light on promotion and it wouldn't be much of an issue. High rank tomes are just not all that useful in general. Like maybe that could be something to change (well I already partially did with Dark) but I don't think it's all that worthwhile or much of an issue, they still have a niche. C Dark wouldn't be too broken, Luna is heavy but can at least hit reasonably hard, Nosferatu might let him recover while attacking, so I guess I could do that as well. I guess C Dark is actually more like D rank anything else, yeah. Personally I'd be going Thunder in general. Elfire has 2 mt more, but Thunder loses 3 AS less and has 5 crit, plus is way cheaper. But whatever, that's not hugely important.

I have to disagree here, especially having actually played through and used one of the trainees (arguably the hardest one to use). Ross is going to be pretty terrible at first, yeah he's going to get doubled in chapter 2 but really, that should be about it. He comes with a 1-2 range axe with good hit rate to take potshots with, so he can avoid having to face enemies head on while being babied. He can't do much damage, but he can gain EXP, and that's generally enough - especially when you consider chapter 3 is full of walls to hide behind and gain a few levels easily, while chapter 4 enemies aren't fast enough to double him. He's still not exactly fast after promotion, but he's fast enough to not get doubled by most things (5.7 speed with 11 CON as a Fighter, 7.7 Speed with 10 CON as a Pirate or 5.7 speed with 9 CON as a Journeyman). With Amelia - she's actually not getting doubled quite as much as you may imagine, and while she's probably not top half of characters, it was never the goal to make everyone equally good, just to make everyone reasonable without anyone being overpowered. I luckily had a save at the route split so I can check how her AS does there quite easily. 5 AS with a Slim Lance means she's only doubled by 9/32 of the initial enemies, and of course she gains EXP very quickly and has a good speed growth, so she's definitely trainable. Even with an Iron Lance (giving her 3 AS) she's only doubled by 15/32 enemies, so just under half. Her much higher base level cuts out about 1/3rd of the trainee suck period, and then better promotion gains make her more usable right afterwards as well. Does she need more buffs? Honestly I don't know. She's already really good after getting trained now. She was comparing reasonably with Seth on my file by chapter 13 (albeit with much lower move), and of course trained much quicker from then on. Trainees are naturally quite hard to balance, if you want to preserve their 'trainee' aspect - obviously I could just buff up her base stats and level a bunch, but then you lose than 'very weak now, very strong later' feature they have. Perhaps this is controversial, but I feel that FE7 has the same problem with enemies having too low growths. HHM has big map changes that help keep the difficulty high, but the enemies themselves tend to be pushovers. Also, I might be wrong, but I believe enemy Hard Mode bonuses are larger in FE7, or at least they feel larger. With that said... maybe you're right? It felt okay to me, overall. Perhaps I should make some changes to promoted human enemies though? Early on, the base increases are the main factor, and they're enough for the most part. Later on, the growths really kick in, and increase all enemies HP by about 10, STR/SKL/SPD/LUK by about 3 (plus the base stat increases). In FE8, you don't often have to fight large groups of promoted enemies, especially not human ones - the closest you come is chapter 19, and there well you typically either make a wall and defend or just warp to kill Riev. And since you don't often fight big groups of them, it's okay for them to be relatively strong, I feel. For monsters, I think that the lategame monsters getting a big buff is good - they definitely need it because of as you say, sacred twins rip through them so effectively, even when they're in large numbers. Chapter 20 was long, but I rarely felt like I was in a difficult position during it because of said weapons, and endgame wasn't really that hard. Cormag did get nerfed ;). He lost 1 HP and 1 SPD. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like -1 SPD will hurt Cormag a fair bit, his base speed is pretty mediocre for his level and with enemies getting faster, he's going to struggle to double a reasonable amount of things. It's actually something that never crossed my mind to do. This would be a fairly easy change to make as well, to smooth out a few weapon ranks on promotion, and would probably be quite nice. Just looking over the list of classes that gain a weapon: Warrior: C axes, D Bows already which is fine. Hero: C Sword seems pretty high because Fighters can promote straight into it which is really good, but D axes is fine. Could drop this to D/D weapon ranks? Ranger: D/D is okay Great Knight & General: Because these gain two extra weapon types (only one from Cav but it goes up to 3 at least), I think that D/D/E ranks would probably work best. It means they have two decent ish weapon ranks, and a third that you can put a little effort in to raise if you prefer. Probably E Axes for Great Knight as Cavaliers can promote to it, and E Sword for Generals. Wyvern Lord: C/D is fine Falcoknight: C/E is pretty sucky on the swords, especially since that's possibly the weapon you'd prefer to use because of their low CON. C/D or D/D would likely be better. Or perhaps D/D, but lower Pegasus WLv to E so they gain 30 WEXP (not that gaining 10 less WEXP is a huge deal typically). Sage: Hmm... with there being so few tomes, starting at C rank basically means access to every relevant tome instantly. Is that something I want to keep? I think probably not. So likely D/D/D here? Sorry Moulder, no instant Elfire without AS loss for you. Bishop: Similar to above but now it's C staves. I kinda like this as a perk for Bishop, and honestly I'd say Sage is better than Bishop currently (because slayer is pretty much only relevant in chapter 18, by chapter 20 you have Ivaldi) so a minor nerf there and no change here seems fine. Valkyrie: I kinda like keeping C/D here because it makes going for the S rank in the tome more realistic. Staves give WEXP so fast already, and work on a separate EXP scale, so I think it makes sense here. Mage Knight: Same as above Druid: Hmm... they currently have C/D/E, which is okay, since no staff using class promotes to them, and Summoner is more of the dark magic 'support' class. I don't think this is worth changing. Summoner: Here however D staves makes so much more sense. D/D over C/E, I think. This list make sense? Most of it was just thinking on the fly, so maybe not all of them are great ideas, but that's why I'm posting them before implementing. Thanks, and thanks for the feedback. Given me lots of things to consider. Oh yeah, forgot Super Pupil. C/D/D I'm definitely happy to do. I'm not so convinced about C/C/C... although it is a perk for Ewan, and it's not like that's going to break anything. Maybe C Anima, C Light, D Dark? That way, Super Pupil gives you anima/light with a higher Wep rank than Sage would, plus also Dark.

Huh, that's... odd. She's level 2 in chapter 5 in the editor. Unless there's a second Natasha hidden somewhere being used... I found another in the editor and changes that to level 2, so hopefully that'll be fixed when I put an updated version out. Not that Natasha's base level matters too much. Huh, first time I've seen chapter 5 called the hardest in the game. Personally I'd put chapters 6, 11 Eph, 13 Eir, 18 and 19 way above it, and probably also 9 Eir (for both villages), 10 Eph, 14 Eph, 15, 16 and 17 too. But whatever, different people find different things challenging. There are better methods ;). Seth can survive a crit and a normal hit at base level (17 mt vs. 10 def with WTD = 6 attack, against Seth's 26 HP), and if you've gained 1 DEF he can survive two crits if he's in the forest (4 damage per attack = 24 from two crits) - and in the forest Josh's hit rate isn't great, 36 hit and 21 crit if I calculated correctly (Josh has 104 hit, base Seth has 33 avoid + 15 WTA + 20 forest = 78 avoid). Or, you can just send Natasha up to talk to him without luring him in the first place (keeping a mount/Vanessa available to rescue her after might be an idea). That said, I have been debating giving Seth one more AS. It would mean he could double a little more in the early game, and give him just a tiny extra push later on (since he's going to fall off hard in the lategame). I think Seth is fine though, he's filling the Jeigan role much more accurately now. So anyway, a few minor updates I think I should do: Neimi's level updated to 3 (done) Natasha's level updated to 2 (done) Gilliam: +2 DEF, +1 SPD? Would that be enough, or perhaps also +1/2 HP as well? Forde/Kyle: I'm not entirely convinced these guys need a buff. Forde perhaps could use +1 SKL, +1 SPD just to make his doubling a little more reliable (he's pretty awful when he's not doubling), Kyle I think is fine. Vanessa: I'm still umming and ahhing over her. Is she too weak combat wise now? She's going to be way worse than Tana at similar levels, that's for sure, but she also has a level lead on Tana. Dozla: Honestly I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned yet. He has +1 speed which is an improvement, and relatively speaking a lot more people struggle with doubling now so his biggest issue (terrible speed in a game where almost everyone doubles reliably) is less significant, but in exchange he gets doubled himself a little more and his durability is somewhat less impressive. Thinking of perhaps upping his STR by 1-2, his HP by 1-2 and maybe even his DEF by 1, keeping his speed shaky but letting him contribute more through stronger single hits and slightly more capable of taking a hit. Syrene is MUCH stronger now. Like, she's not amazing but she's decent lategame filler. I was using her almost untrained in chapters 19 and 20, and while she's fragile there she could do damage and wasn't OHKO'd by anything bar archers and Morva. To answer your specific question here: No, she survives with single digit HP, and has reasonable avoid against them too. Gorgons and Arch Mogalls are all pretty much MAG capped in the lategame, which isn't really surprising given they come close to MAG cap in vanilla, so their damage output is pretty reliable - 42 from Shadowshot IIRC, which deals 27 damage to Syrene's 31 HP. They have somewhere around 100-105 hit with it (perhaps a little lower, I'm looking at chapter 20 Gorgons here), against Syrene's 53 avoid when using a lighter weapon.

>Makes insulting post focusing almost entirely on perceived missing balance changes rather than what is changed >Gets post back explaining why changes suggested weren't implemented, but one or two changes suggested might occur >Claims he's being ignored. I have no idea what you're talking about. But mostly, I'd be more inclined to take you seriously if you used reasonable grammar and weren't taking so negative of a tone.

...Are we talking about the same game here? Ross is pretty bad, generally considered right on the lower fringe of usable. Once trained, he's at best slightly above average, but his growths are pretty poor. A minor buff is warranted. Garcia was one I considered buffing, since he's not really much better than Ross generally, but he's alright. Slightly slow but other stats are pretty solid, very useful earlygame at least. Innes has very good bases - 15 SPD and nice CON means he's doubling regularly, and that's backed up by a very respectable 45% growth. 14 STR and 10 DEF are also good. Especially since harder enemies generally means archers get more valuable, I didn't see any reason to buff an already mid-tier character who was already getting an indirect buff. There's like, two chapters of axeland left when Vanessa joins. Chapter 4 has no axes, chapter 5 is mostly lances and swords, chapter 6 onwards is pretty mixed. I was kinda on the edge about if Vanessa needed a nerf. She's pretty amazing in vanilla, but it's not because her stats are anything more than average, rather because flight is awesome. Flight is still awesome, so did she need a nerf? I opted to go for a minor one. Also, Eirika is still the worst female Lord! Seriously, there's three Cavaliers, one of them has to be the worst. They can't all be the best Cavalier ever. Forde and Kyle have never been that far apart in usefulness, and now that Kyle's shaky speed is more likely to make him miss out on doubling, I'd say there's an argument that Forde is now better than Kyle anyway. Hmm... Gillaim always felt like a character that was okay, a little weak offensively but his strong defensive stats made him useful for soaking damage. However judging from what Silith has said, that might not be the case, so he might well need a buff now. Probably something like +2 DEF, +1 SPD should be enough to keep him able to actually tank reasonably. Great. Thanks for the contribution. Maybe next time you can focus on the positive changes that were made, and present your opinions on what's missing more positively. And also use capital letters.

Amelia gets to 9 CON now, which is pretty decent - and what Recruit doesn't get in CON it makes up for in other stats and +15% crit. Compare the promotion gains for Recruit (3) to Paladin - Paladin gives 1/1/1/2/1/2/2/3, Recruit gives 3/3/1/1/2/0/2/1 - Paladin gives an additional 1 SPD, 2 RES, 2 MOV, D Swords compared to Recruit giving 2 STR, 2 SKL, 1 DEF, +15% crit. Neither of those jump out at me as being obviously superior choices. Not really sure what you're trying to say here. He's going to be weakish at first - that's a part of his character, I wanted to still maintain that as best as possible, but now he will grow well, much better than in Vanilla in fact, due to slightly improved growths, improved bases and level causing a drastically reduced trainee period (needing to gain only 4 levels instead of 9, which could realistically be done in the chapter he joins), and much stronger promotion gains equivalent to an extra level up or two - he's going to be able to pull his weight as a backliner much more rapidly than in vanilla, and actually has a shot at being one of your stronger units by the lategame... with a little work. Is it enough to balance him? I don't know. I can't test everyone in a single playthrough. I used Amelia, and was happy with how she performed - weak at first, but caught up much more quickly than in vanilla, and ended up being one of my strongest units (sadly she growed a bit wonky, STR and SPD blessed and DEF screwed, when I wanted her to be more concrete-tanky as a Knight... ah well). And Ewan's in a similar position to Amelia - joins a bit later but has an easier time getting EXP, so I hope he'll be okay. Feel free to use him and give your own thoughts though!

Ah, oops. Neimi was a fairly late change, at first she just got a small buff (1 point IIRC) to STR and SPD, but eventually after talking to Kaoz we decided raising her level would be better. I guess I forgot to go back and make that change in the chapter editor. Neimi was one of the units I used in my team, since she was one I wanted to most try out here. Generally in FE, as enemies get stronger, the accurate 2 range chip from archers becomes increasingly more valuable, so I wondered if just a small buff would be enough to make her useful. Especially as 1-2 range weapons are a tad weaker. She's always fragile, but her offence now is actually reasonable right from the start, and as her high speed and decent STR growths kick in she can start dealing very significant damage at 2 range. I think she's fine, based on my experience. Anyway from the rest of your post it's sounding like Gilliam might need a bit of a buff. Although I seem to recall that because of heavy enemy weapons he wasn't getting doubled that much in the earlygame, even at base level. (Also the enemies in chapter 4 'only' having 3-4 AS might not seem like much, but compare it to vanilla where they mostly have 1-2... yeah. At least at 3-4 AS not everyone is doubling).

Thanks for the feedback. Duessel is definitely a lot weaker and probably never doubling much any more, so you might be right. His STR and DEF bases and growths were very good before, and in my experience he was still solid right up to about chapter 15 or 16 even with gaining minimal level ups, but going into the late game that slow speed really limits him. I'm certainly consider reverting his dropped speed, perhaps the dropped HP as well. He's still really good for the chapters right after he joins, after all, so it makes sense he'd be a little weaker in the long run. Heh, well, Kyle ended up being my MVP, although I think part of that was due to getting speed blessed (only about 2 points up by promotion, but he also had a speedwing so it was actually +4, and maintained that high speed forever). Cavaliers high move and two weapon types are still really good, enough to easily balance out slightly weaker stats elsewhere. Perhaps you're right, though. I just did a quick stat comparison with a handful of vanilla units, and he looks (at equal levels): Better than Neimi, worse than Ross, worse than Ephraim, worse than Cormag. Of those Ephraim and Cormag got nerfed, Neimi got buffed and Ross got buffed slightly. But this doesn't factor in the move and weapon types advantage he has. So Kyle... probably fine? Forde perhaps could benefit from a minor buff, perhaps +1 speed, +1 skill in order to augment his intended strengths (that +1 speed especially will help him, with enemies being faster now)?

[spoiler=Screenshots] [spoiler=Wait what are these showing?]1) Seth's base stats are reduced, especially in HP, STR, SPD and DEF. Seth received a few very needed nerfs - lower bases, reduced growths, and a tweak to the EXP formula in the earlygame, which although an indirect nerf, hinders Seth's early EXP gain far more than any other character is affected. 2) An example of a chapter 9 Eirika Shaman, showcasing their new defensive slant. Slightly higher offensive stats but much stronger defensively. Most enemies didn't gain much or any DEF/RES in this patch, instead I opted to raise HP to maintain balance of lower strength, high SPD units. 3) Marisa is significantly buffed in terms of bases. This is her in chapter 10 Eirika route. Marisa didn't receive any other buffs, so this is all she gets. How do you think she compares to Joshua (who was unchanged)? 4) Trainee 1st tier promotions are buffed significantly as well, especially Amelia (who is generally considered the weakest character in the game). Also, notice the CON gain. Trainees are no longer stuck on useless CON! Oh, and those are more or less average stats for Amelia before promotion as a level 10 Recruit. If you do the comparison, it might not look like she got buffed much (before promotion gains, at least!), but she does have a number of small buffs in a few areas of gameplay, as does Ewan and to a lesser degree, Ross. 5) Late game bosses are strong, but not ridiculously strong. Lyon is heavily buffed but still has fairly low AS - much higher than his usual ~5 AS though - so even though he's sporting 55 mt like usual, and now 29/30 defences with a whopping 88 HP, he's not too hard to gang up on and take down if you're careful. 6) Most dark magic tomes have been buffed, since they did sorta suck before. Luna with it's terrible hit but 10% crit was particularly notorious for usually being completely non-threatening, except the fact it often had maybe a 2% chance to simply kill you. FESS Difficulty & Balance 1.1.zip (Alternate download: Google Drive) I uh uploaded here first, then later realised I could just attach the file on the forums directly. Doesn't hurt having two versions in case one goes down I suppose. This is a patch that I've been working on for the last month, give or take, mainly for my own entertainment, but since it's done, it felt like a shame to not release it in case more people would be interested. As the name suggests, this patch aims to do two things - 1) Increase the game's difficulty and 2) Address some various balance issues in a number of places, at least as I perceive them. As many people would agree, The Sacred Stones is one of the easier FE games - even if you don't just have Seth demolish his way through the game, there are few seriously challenging chapters, and plenty of other characters who can be trained up quickly and destroy the later parts of the game. Many of those characters, and especially Seth, needed a bit of a tone down. Similarly, many characters are close to worthless if played in a traditional (no grinding) style, due to joining very low levelled, late, and often not being noticably better than similar units when trained. Those characters needed some kind of buff and/or niche to make them more worthwhile. Thus, this patch comes in. This patch is for anyone who wants to play FE8 again, but feels the original game is too easy, and wants something more comparable to recent FE games higher (not top) difficulties. In terms of difficulty, my goal was somewhere around perhaps HHM in FE7, or maybe F4 in FE11 - so I didn't want to make a super challenge for FE vets, just something where the enemies have a little more bite to them. In terms of balance, I wanted to make every character at least viable, and no character feel almost mandatory, for simply completing the game (LTC, speedrun or anything like that wasn't a goal or particular consideration). I was not trying to make every character equally good - such goals are almost impossible, and somewhat subjective. But I wanted even the weakest characters in vanilla to feel worthwhile and rewarding to train, and the strongest to not be overbearing. I feel (and hope!) that I succeeded. This is not a massive redesign of the game or a huge project. Don't expect things like new characters, sprites or ASM hacking. Everything I did was done with Nightmare, and all but one thing with publicly available modules (one module I made myself). This patch is simply doing the things I said it would - rebalancing the game and increasing the difficulty. I'd like to thank two people, who helped make this patch - one directly, and one indirectly. Kaoz/Chaosmaster helped a lot, suggesting various ways to rebalance characters, as well as other things I might want to adjust. I spent a lot of time talking to him about things I could tweak and how to do it. Vennobennu also helped indirectly, well over a year ago, since he told me how to remove the "mode coefficent" part of the EXP formula (and this is what my nightmare module I made as a result is for). Now that's out of the way, here's a changelog for those interested. [spoiler=Summary Changelog]Difficulty: Increased enemy stats (HP majorly, STR/SKL/SPD/LUK slightly). "Mode Coefficient" EXP removed (this basically means you gain less EXP for high level units until chapter 8) Strong units nerfed slightly Balance: Strong units weakened slightly by reducing bases, reducing growths, altering base level, etc. This includes Seth, Franz, Gerik, Duessel and others. Weak units buffed slightly by increasing bases, increasing growths, altering base level etc. Trainees have had their 1st promotion buffed. This includes Ross, Neimi, Amelia, Ewan, Marisa, Knoll and others. Shaman/Druid has slightly more defensively oriented stats, inspired by FE13, to give them both a more distinct feel from other magic users. A few other miscellanious changes. [spoiler=Detailed changelog]All enemy and NPC units unpromoted/promoted base stats increased: HP +4/+6; STR, SKL & SPD +1/+2; DEF & RES +0/+1 All enemy units growths increased: HP +30%; STR, SKL, SPD & LUK +10% Unpromoted Monsters gain 1 less base HP, 10% less HP growth and 5% less STR, SKL, SPD & LUK growth (mostly because Ghost Ship is too much of a difficulty spike otherwise) "Mode Coefficient" EXP removed (see bottom of page for info) Base stat & level changes (note: X>Y means the character is autolevelled from X to Y. All unlisted stats are unchanged): Seth: 26 HP (-4), 12 STR (-2), 10 SPD (-2), 10 DEF (-1), 7 RES (-1), C Swords (-2) Franz: 19 HP (-1), 6 STR (-1), 4 SKL (-1) Moulder: 8 SPD (-1) Vanessa: 10 SPD (-1), 5 DEF (-1) Ephraim: Level 7 (+3) Orson: 33 HP (-1), 14 STR (-1), 10 SPD (-1), 12 DEF (-1) Gerik: Level 8 Eir (-2), Level 8>10 Eph (was 10), 29 HP (-3), 12 STR (-2), 11 SKL (-2), 11 SPD (-2), 7 LUK (-1), 8 DEF (-2), 3 RES (-1), 12 CON (-1) Tethys: Level 1>3 Eph (was 1), 11 SPD (-1), 4 DEF (-1), 3 RES (-1) Saleh: Level 1>4 Eph (was 2>4), 17 SKL (-1), 7 DEF (-1). Cormag: 29 HP (-1), 9 SPD (-1) Duessel: Level 8>11 Eir (was 8>10), 39 HP (-2), 16 STR (-1), 11 SKL (-1), 11 SPD (-1), 16 DEF (-1) Neimi: Level 3 (+2), 18 HP (+1), 6 STR (+2), 7 SKL (+2), 8 SPD (+2), 5 LUK (+1), 3 RES (+1) Natasha: Level 2 (+1), 19 HP (+1), 3 MAG (+1), 9 SPD (+1) Amelia: Level 4 (+3), Level 4>7 Ch. 13 Eir (was 1>4), 18 HP (+2), 5 STR (+1), 4 SKL (+1), 5 SPD (+1), 7 LUK (+1), 3 DEF (+1), 4 RES (+1) Marisa: Level 10 Eir (+5), Level 10>12 Eph (was 5), 27 HP (+4), 9 STR (+2), 15 SKL (+3), 16 SPD (+3), 12 LUK (+3), 5 DEF (+1), 6 RES (+3), C Swords (+1) L'Arachel: Level 7 (+4), 20 HP (+2), 8 MAG (+2), 8 SKL (+2), 12 SPD (+2), 14 LUK (+2), 6 DEF (+1), 10 RES (+2) Dozla: 12 SKL (+1), 10 SPD (+1) Ewan: Level 6 (+5), 18 HP (+3), 5 MAG (+2), 4 SKL (+2), 7 SPD (+2), 8 LUK (+3), 1 DEF (+1), 5 RES (+2) Rennac: 30 HP (+2), 11 STR (+1), 17 SPD (+1) Knoll: Level 10 (was 9>10), 23 HP (+2), 13 MAG (+1), 2 LUK (+2), 5 DEF (+3), 11 RES (+1) Syrene: Level 6 (+5) 31 HP (+4), 14 STR (+2), 16 SKL (+3), 20 SPD (+5), 13 LUK (+1), 11 DEF (+1), 15 RES (+3), B Swords (+1) The Creature Campaign bonus characters all have the same bonuses as enemy units do (+6 HP, +2 STR, SKL & SPD, +1 DEF & RES) because well they're bonus characters anyway, they need all the help they can get (and it's less editing to leave like that) Lyon's Phantoms are stronger (+15% STR, SKL, SPD, LUK growths) because I felt like it. Growths changes: Seth: 80% HP (-10%), 45% STR (-5%), 40% SKL (-5%), 40% SPD (-5%), 20% LUK (-5%), 30% DEF (-10%), 20% RES (-10%) Amelia: 70% HP (+10%), 40% STR (+5%) Ewan: 55% HP (+5%), 55% MAG (+10%), 40% SPD (+5%) Knoll: 80% HP (+10%), 25% DEF (+15%) Promotion bonus changes: Journeyman > Fighter: +3 HP, +3 STR, +1 SKL, +1 RES, +3 CON (was: +2 HP, +2 STR, +1 SKL, +1 RES, +3 CON) Journeyman > Pirate: +4 HP, +2 STR, +1 SPD, +1 DEF, +2 CON (was: +2 HP, +2 STR, +1 SPD, +1 DEF, +2 CON) Journeyman > Journeyman (2): +3 HP, +1 STR, +2 SKL, +2 DEF, +2 RES, +1 CON (was: +2 HP, +2 SKL, +2 DEF, +2 RES) Journeyman (2) > Journeyman (3) +5 HP, +1 STR, +1 SPD, +3 DEF, +3 RES, +2 CON (was: +4 HP, +1 STR, +2 SPD, +2 DEF, +2 RES) Journeyman (2) > Hero Now gives +2 CON (was +3 CON), no other changes Recruit > Cavalier: +2 HP, +2 SKL, +3 SPD, +2 RES, +3 CON (was: +1 HP, +2 SKL, +2 SPD, +2 RES, +3 CON) Recruit > Knight: +3 HP, +3 STR, +1 SKL, +4 DEF, +1 RES, +4 CON (was: +2 HP, +1 STR, +1 SKL, +1 SPD, +2 DEF, +4 CON) Recruit > Recruit (2): +3 HP, +2 STR, +3 SKL, +2 SPD, +2 DEF, +2 RES, +1 CON (was: +2 HP, +1 STR, +1 SKL, +1 SPD, +2 DEF, +1 RES) Recruit (2) > Recruit (3): +3 HP, +3 STR, +1 SKL, +1 SPD, +2 DEF, +2 CON (was: +2 HP, +2 STR, +1 SKL, +1 SPD, +2 DEF, +1 RES) Recruit (2) > Paladin: Now gives +2 CON (was +3 CON), no other changes Pupil > Mage: +2 HP, +2 MAG, +1 SKL, +3 SPD, +1 DEF, +2 RES, +1 CON (was: +1 HP, +1 SKL, +2 SPD, +1 DEF, +2 RES, +1 CON) Pupil > Shaman: +4 HP, +1 MAG, +1 SPD, +3 DEF, +2 RES, +2 CON (was: +1 HP, +2 MAG, +1 SPD, +1 DEF, +2 RES, +2 CON) Pupil > Pupil (2): +3 HP, +3 MAG, +2 SKL, +2 DEF, +3 RES, +1 CON (was: +2 HP, +1 MAG, +1 SKL, +2 DEF, +2 RES) Pupil (2) > Pupil (3): Now gives +1 CON (was +0 CON), no other changes Pupil (2) > Sage: Now gives +1 CON (was +2 CON), no other changes Stat cap changes: All Trainee (1): 15 STR, SKL, SPD, DEF, RES & CON (Was 20 in all) Journeyman (3): 30 STR, 28 SKL, 26 SPD, 30 DEF, 24 RES (Was: 26 STR, 29 SKL, 28 SPD, 23 DEF, 23 RES) Recruit (3): 28 STR, 30 SKL, 29 SPD, 27 DEF, 27 RES (Was: 23 STR, 30 SKL, 29 SPD, 22 DEF, 26 RES) Pupil (3): 29 MAG, 29 SKL, 26 SPD, 24 DEF, 30 RES (Was: 29 MAG, 28 SKL, 27 SPD, 21 DEF, 30 RES) n.b. These 3rd tier stat caps are the ones in the Japanese version. Some are a bit odd like Journeyman's 30 DEF, but overall they seemed more appropriate to use. The 1st tier ones are just for effect, they're almost unreachable caps still (Ross has a 0.2% chance of reaching 16 Strength... if you give him the ch. 7 Energy Ring.) Weapon changes: Luna now has 75% hit, 0% crit and 11 wt (was 50% hit, 10% crit and 12 wt) Nosferatu now has 13 wt (was 14 wt) Fenrir now has 15 wt (was 18 wt) Gleipnir now has 21 mt, 16 wt, effective vs. monsters (was 23 mt, 20 wt, no effective bonus) All 1-2 ranged Lances (Javelin, Short Spear, Spear) and Axes (Hatchet, Hand Axe, Tomahawk) have -1 mt Other misc. changes: Shaman & Druid base stats: +1 HP, +1 DEF, -1 MAG, -1 SKL Shaman & Druid growths: +15% HP, +10% DEF, +5% RES, -10% MAG, -10% SKL, -5% SPD Including the universal growth & base stat buffs this gives: Bases: +5/+7 HP, +0/+1 MAG & SKL, +1/2 SPD, +1/+2 DEF, +0/+1 RES (for Shaman/Druid resp.) Growths: +45% HP, +5% SPD, +10% LUK, +10% DEF, +5% RES This makes Shamans & Druids slightly more defensively oriented, similar to FE13. Boss stats increased. Excluding HM bonuses (which are slightly larger now due to higher growths): Prologue-ch. 3 & ch. 5x have 4 HP, 1 STR, SKL & SPD Ch. 4-7 gain 6 HP, 2 STR, SKL & SPD Ch. 8-11 gain 6 HP, 2 STR, SKL & SPD, 1 LUK, DEF & RES Ch. 12-14 gain 8 HP, 3 STR, SKL & SPD, 1 LUK, DEF & RES Ch. 15-18 gain 10 HP, 3 STR, SKL & SPD, 2 LUK, DEF & RES Ch. 19-20 gain 12 HP, 4 STR, SKL & SPD, 2 LUK, DEF & RES. Riev also gains 2 CON Lyon (end) gains 12 HP, 1 MAG, 4 SKL, 4 SPD, 4 LUK, 2 DEF & 6 CON Formotiis gains 5 STR, 10 SKL, 2 SPD, 6 DEF & 6 RES, but stat caps have been lowered to 31 to avoid a stat overflow bug while suspending (in effect this means 30 or 31 MAG/SKL/DEF/RES and about 21 SPD/LUK) Note: "Mode coefficient": Normally, until the end of chapter 8, the game does something a bit weird with EXP. If your level is at least the same as an enemies level when you kill them, then the bonus EXP you get for killing them treats your level as though it's half of what it actually is. If that sounds confusing then here's some example numbers: A level 6 fighting a level 8 enemy gets 11 EXP for hitting and an additional kill bonus of 6 (+ a fixed 20 EXP) for killing, making 37 EXP total. A level 8 fighting the same enemy would get 10 EXP for hitting, but here's the weird part: Because their level is equal, it's treated as being level 4 for the kill bonus, so they actually get a kill bonus of 12 EXP (+ the fixed 20 EXP), making 42 EXP for killing. So a higher level character is getting more EXP, what. The main reason I've disabled this isn't because it's weird though - it's because it makes things harder, and especially makes Seth less able to get tons of EXP early on (it's not unusual for Seth to be level 6-8 at the end of chapter 8, in this patch, he probably won't be higher than 3). For reference, with the mode coefficient disabled, now our level 8 unit gets 10 EXP for hitting and an additional 0 + 20 for killing, making 30 total. The patch is currently complete - however, there is a chance I will make some more changes, likely minor ones, especially if people feel there is a character or perhaps other aspect of the game I have not sensibly balanced yet. If there are any questions, perhaps about why I did something a certain way or anything else, feel free to ask.

No, I didn't. I factored that in to why she's so underlevelled, and of course her stats. Oh, we're grinding in the Tower like scrubs now? Okay, sure. Capped Gilliam... 1) Has 60 HP and 30 DEF. Basically, he's invincible against anything but magic. Even for magic he has 13 RES. These stats are much better than Amelia's, who has 10.8 HP less and 5 DEF less. In other words, she can die. Amelia is slightly more tanky against magic thanks to 33 avoid and basically identical RES, but magic based enemies are less common. So lead for Gilliam in durability. 2) Has higher Strength and crucially has enough speed to double most enemies now. Like, maxed Gilliam doubles almost everything in Endgame (he maybe doesn't double a Maelduin, and doesn't double the Gwyllgi, but neither does Amelia). Earlier in the game there's a few enemies he doesn't double, in like chapters 19 and 17, but not a huge amount. Gilliam doubles the vast majority of enemies. So lead for Gilliam in offence.* So at max stats, Amelia is better than Gilliam at everything, except for offence and defence. Uh wait, what was your point? Of course, this ignores the fact that nobody takes using the tower seriously, because as Mekkkah just said: And there's no point comparing characters when the comparison is "killing everything trivially" vs. "killing everything trivially" Yes, fliers are the best classes, cavaliers are barely behind as the 2nd best class. Then there's a big gap to everything else, and finally you have Knights with their lolzy 4 move at the bottom. *Gilliam's strength lead might not actually matter all that much since Amelia might reliable ORKO with affordable (Silver/Killer/Javelin) weaponry anyway. But the point remains that even at max level Amelia doesn't have a significant lead, if any lead at all.

So many things wrong with this post. 1) Her 'great' speed growth is a below average 40%, compared to Gilliam's 'crappy' 30%. So she gains 1 more speed over him every 10 levels on average. She does end up with significantly better speed than a trained Gilliam, but you're comparing a character whose strength is her speed to one whose weakness is. A pretty unfair comparison, really. Gilliam for reference smashes Amelia's growths in HP (30%) and DEF (25%), and also beats her in STR (10%) and RES (5%). He only loses in the two unimportant stats - SKL (5%) and LUK (20%), and of course Speed (10%). So uh, in terms of growths, Gilliam has a pretty big lead over Amelia. Hardly surprising - Amelia has some of the worst growths of any unit in the game (this is a fact by the way, go check the numbers if you want). 2) General Amelia is a great idea, if you like shooting yourself in the foot after shooting yourself in the leg. Amelia is a terrible unit - this is pretty much unanimously agreed (it's hard to find a main game tier list, for any kind of criterion, which puts her outside the bottom 3). She joins at an awful level halfway through the game, with terrible growths and generally struggles to do anything but throw Javelins with mediocre hit rates. Hence, using Amelia is shooting yourself in the arm. From there, promoting her to anything but Cavalier is such a massively inferior choice that'd you only do it for the challenge or just for personal preference reasons. Cavalier gives a huge 3 move advantage, as well as a second weapon type, which isn't to be overlooked. The other stat gain from promotion is slightly better for Knight (2 DEF and 1 STR in particular are good for Amelia) but, man, losing almost half your move for that is just nowhere near worth it. 3) Amelia as a Knight/General still has unimpressive defence. By the time she promotes to General (probably about chapter 18-19), Gilliam could easily be 20/8 or so, and have about an 8 defence, 12 HP lead over her. Her being a Knight/General doesn't mean much in terms of her defence. Her avoid is just what she naturally ends up with lategame, and it's still not even that good - about 56 avoid going into maybe chapter 18 gives enemies something like a 40-50% hit rate against her. Some of which 2HKO her. Um. At this point Gilliam's big HP and DEF lead mean he's much more durable, even if he gets hit more often most physical attacks just don't do anything. And, of course, Gilliam has been decent throughout the entire game up to this point. Amelia's been training for pretty much the entire time, and finally caught up. Even if she's better in the final few chapters (which is frankly arguable anyway) it's not going to be by much. 4) Comparing Amelia to any of the Cavaliers, her superior promotion line, really highlights her shortcomings. But that's not really relevant to the points you made, I just throught I'd throw it in.

http://serenesforest.net/the-sacred-stones/characters/average-stats/orson/chapter-7x/ http://serenesforest.net/the-sacred-stones/characters/average-stats/orson/ On both of these pages, all of the 7x's should be 5x instead.

Just to check, the other stat growths are still +/- 5%, as suspected? And Luck is still +15%/-10% as an asset/flaw, not something slightly bigger (I ask since it's base change is slightly larger, +4/-2 instead of the normal +2/-1)? So a typical asset gives +15%/+5%/+5% while a typical flaw gives -10%/-5%/-5%, and HP gives +30%/+5%/+5% or -20%/-5%/-5%?

If we're talking easiest difficulty, then most of them are not really that tough. Like, people say Sacred Stones is really easy but it's Normal mode is probably harder than ENM. FE6 and possibly earlier ones are harder, and FE10 is slightly harder, but not by too much. On hardest difficulty, probably FE9 on Hard, but if we allow FE9 Maniac then likely FE8. FE4 is easy if you know what you're doing, but that's kinda the point of a strategy game. If you don't know how to break it, it's a fairly reasonable FE with a lot of tricky moments to deal with (generally involving enemies with holy weapons). FE8 has a few tough points, but nothing too horrible. FE9 Hard is just consistently... eh. The later ones are obviously much harder (FE10 hard is pretty nasty and FE11-13 have probably the three hardest highest difficulty settings, especially FE13's Luna+). FE5-7 have quite tough to hard highest difficulties and FE1-3 I haven't played so can't easily comment on.

It takes a long time to collect data, and a long time to put it into the wiki format. I was the guy who did most of the second half of that (Othin did quite a lot, and I copied his format for the most part) and it's not all that quick. So that's a factor. And then actually collecting the numbers takes just as long - imagine having to write down the stats of every single enemy you encounter, their weapons, when the reinforcements spawn and so on. It's slow. Also enemy stats tend to fluctuate a little on Normal and Hard. Now there are sites you can copy the data from, but then you still need to reformat it. So it's not quick. And because of that, people have mostly focused on the most played difficulty - Lunatic. People do play Normal, and Hard, but generally people care more about Lunatic. Like... stats there matter a lot more. With half decent play, Normal and Hard become very easy very quickly. You won't care much about the stats. On Lunatic, you probably still do. Look at the lategame stats - many enemies are at caps. On top of that, character comparisons - which require enemies to compare the against - are generally done on higher difficulties, typically Lunatic. So Lunatic takes priority. If I had more time, and it were more fun, I'd do Hard and Normal as well. But I'm not intending to, because of that time/fun issue. I actually use Japanese sites for enemy stats on Normal mode occasionally at the moment, because I'm helping someone plan a '100%' speedrun (all characters/all chapters) and we kinda need to know how tough the late chapters actually are and how weak we can get away with being - but usually, you won't care so much because you can just stomp through Normal.

Yep. Not really much else to say I guess...

I like having 5 slots. 7 gives you more flexibility, but 5 forces you to think a little more carefully about which specialised weapons to bring. With 7, you could pretty much equip whatever weapons you felt like and still have space for a healing item or two.

Yeah, pretty much agree with this. The Magic triangle has never been relevant, which is it's main issue. Mages generally make a minority of your party and the enemy army, and mages tend to have high resistance - which means you generally don't target mages with mages and vice versa. And if they aren't fighting each other much, there's not much use to having it. If they wanted a magic triangle to exist, first they need to address the balance of magic users in general. There would need to be a higher percentage of magic users, with generally RES low enough to want to target each other (or otherwise some reason you'd want mages to target other mages). I do like the idea of different forms of magic having a niche, with a few more forms of magic (it would be a good way to boost the potential variety of magic classes, since each can use different magic types and then you can further differentiate with stats more). Right now, Thunder has high crit, Wind has bonus damage against fliers and dark has various unique effects. Fire is kinda... generic. It had beast effectiveness in PoR but that wasn't too special. Something like burn damage which works akin to poison could be a simple but relevant change (it'd likely hurt the player more than it helps them though as you tend to kill enemies quickly, so something would need to be done about that. Earth could deal area damage in some form... I've thought about it, but it's hard to work out exactly how you'd make all the details work, but I think it could. Then Ice/water could have something, possibly, not sure what right now. And light would too. I think it's important that you don't change too much with the magic, or you could completely shake the balance of the game. But maybe that's what you want to do.

I think I learned Polar Integration perhaps a month or two after making that post. Polar Integration is a part of polar co-ordinates in the A level Further Maths syllabus here, so you learn it in secondary school.

Dude... quoted from a problem I posted four years ago, crazy. Using some polar co-ordinate integration, that problem is probably pretty easy. I have no idea what I was thinking about solution wise at the time but that'd likely be my first method of approach.