Interceptor
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Posts posted by Interceptor
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You must be new here. PEMN means that your experience with RNG isn't representative of everyone else's. That's why it's the standard reply when someone brags about Lyn being awesome because she got STR/DEF every level.No, he said "personal experience means nothing," which means that my personal experience with my playthrough wasn't worth caring about.
Don't make me connect the dots for you, here.
It's things like this that make me wonder about you.It's a little unlikely for an entire map to spawn with Counter.
Anyway, you just need to play really slowly and carefully. By looking for enemies with Counter and trying to kill them on the player phase, you can decrease your chance of death by a lot. A Sol + Nosferatu combo negates Counter completely.
You don't need the entire map to spawn with Counter: just a sufficient number of key ones. A bad roll and you have a high CoD. And just for those reading who might be mislead by your bluster/exaggeration/lack of details, Sol + Nosferatu combo only negates Counter in the case where 1) Sol activates, and 2) the enemy actually has enough health to steal back.
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Sorry, I can't give meaning to your life; that's a job for your local preacher.Why should I care about [...]
All that this soldier can do, is say things like "Armsthrift is useful any time that money is a factor" in response to "it's only good for grinding". And point out that the Emperor has no clothes, that clowns will be clowns, etc. It's a thankless job.
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Instead, it's PEMN. Counter-spam coupled with unlucky failed activations tends to overwhelm the solo artist.By resets I mean strategical mistakes. I had no need to reset for enemy skills: that would be RNG abuse.
Likewise, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference between a high-reliability guide for dummies and my personal inclinations.I don't really blame you for not being able to figure out the easiest strategies possible--even though you're writing a guide--because you tend not to think very deeply. If you were able to, I'm sure you wouldn't need to tediously train a bunch of bow users to deal with Lunatic+.
Did you ever watch Sesame Street as a kid?best possible strategy [...] require Armsthrift [...] useful
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Leaving it as an exercise for the reader to figure out what this means in practical terms. Does he not understand the implications of skill distribution with no limiters? Is it hyperbole and empty boasting as usual? Does "little" actually mean "a whole lot more than he cares to admit"?I said "no RNG abuse," didn't I? That means little to no resets.
Smells like all of the above, to me. We'll never know, since even getting you to admit that Armsthrift is "useful" (not even good, just "useful") is like nailing Jell-O to the wall.
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Evidence (further evidence, that is) that you never understood my argument in the first place, since the "entirety" of it contains things without anything to do with Lunatic+.Your entire argument falls apart with this simple truth: I've already used this strategy successfully, and it allowed me to beat Lunatic+ in under 10 hours.
A novice, like I said. You are a slave to a RNG, be it via Sol activations or Counter density. You give no value to avoiding resets, which alone would make your argument hilarious, but it's coupled with a seeming inability to understand what the word "useful" means, for extra flavor.Bows aren't really worth it in Lunatic+, thanks to my Sol + Nosferatu strategy. I was able to easily one round most enemies with merely unforged Nosferatus--no RNG abuse. This was classic mode.
It's the easiest and best way to play, because once you've prepared your Avatar, all you have to do is watch out for enemies with Counter (stay out of their range if possible, and kill them on the player phase). So bows aren't even worth considering.
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At least in the DM's case, I'd venture a guess that perhaps Hex had something to do with it. Maybe Focus for the Sage?Sometimes enemies will fight at one range with 1-2 weapons for no discernible reason too. I encounter a Dark Mage in chapter 19 and a Sage in Yarne's Paralogue where there were several spaces around Avatar open that would allow them to fight at 2 range, but they decided to take her on at one range. I have no idea why, as no one was body blocking them, there was no advantageous terrain around and at least in the Sage's case, the rest of his team had already acted. Both had Counter and caused me serious problems (the Dark Mage instance getting her killed and the Sage instance leaving her with single digit HP). The whole reason I even got caught with my pants down like that is I assumed they would attack at 2 range.
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You inflate your own worth; there was no argument to begin with. Only the naked ignorance of your position, and the subsequent dance-moves that you employed to wiggle out of being wrong.Argument over.
Redwall's post doesn't even address a point that was in contention, and you even ignored the part where he gently pointed out where you were missing something important (bows). The takeaways here are that you 1) are a Lunatic+ novice, 2) make mistakes constantly, and 3) won't admit when you are in error, and 4) didn't quite read what you quoted.
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By which you largely mean ignoring the things that are devastating to your case; but this is no surprise to anyone familiar with your posting style. And it's also not a problem, since I'm not that easily distracted.Let's start off by removing the parts which aren't rhetoric / personal insults.
For example:
A +Def -Luk Avatar
The +5 extra might isn't very useful, because the Avatar can one round every enemy on Lunatic+ anyway
This is all evidence that you are inexperienced with Lunatic+. You have a +DEF/-LCK Armsthrift setup instead of a more sane +DEF/-SKL, you ignore the fact that OHKO > ORKO in Lunatic+ because of Counter (early forged effective weapons are absurdly useful because of this), and you suppose that your vanilla Lunatic Sorcerer crutch is a solution to the problem. I mean, FFS, if you don't mention Bows anywhere, you can't be taken seriously. Blessed and Longbow are amazing weapons in Lunatic+.Sorcerer
File this under "why you're not a debating partner that I have any respect for", and understand it's why you can't expect full arguments from my corner.
I'll interpret this ad hominem to mean that you've conceded the point that Armsthrift is useful, since you never actually disputed that point.it's quite stupid to suggest otherwise.
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It's not necessary to make a fully fleshed-out argument here. Your point is invalid on its face. Armsthrift is useful in no-grind and no-DLC runs. You're not even contesting that, just doing a sleight of hand where you pretend that someone said it was amazing (when actually it was just said to be useful).Your argument is clearly not well-thought out.
As Redwall pointed out, it's particularly useful in Lunatic+ to create strong forges that break slowly/never, but your ignorance here is excusable since it seems that you've never played that mode.
For someone who rides the Semantics Train™ so often, this careless mistake from you is a bit surprising. It's not "issue", it's "factor". Money is not unlimited, but more effective money gives you greater options. Forging is extremely expensive.I doubt many people have an issue with money.
Ashera protect us all, the day that I start taking advice from someone who makes as many errors as you do.I suggest thinking more deeply before posting next time.
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Worth noting that the two barbarians near the bridge in Paralogue 2, will actually attack your units rather than the village. Every other barbarian has the horse-blinder behavior, except these particular two. They actually appear to be tied to the units north of your starting position, and will stand as still as statues until you either aggro them or the boss moves.
EDIT: this is Lunatic+
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Is Armsthrift overrated? This is a brain-dead question. It could be, and probably has been, but how does one even answer this particular phrasing?
Well, you're wrong here -- to nobody's great surprise -- though it's mostly by omission. Armsthrift is useful any time that money is a factor, which includes a large number of no-DLC and/or no-grind runs that you'll see. And that is by no means an exhaustive list of runs where Armsthrift is good, just a couple obvious ones.I personally think it's only good for grinding. Postgame, you only have to worry about the Brave weapons anyway.
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I'll be pairing Gregor with Miriel, most likely. She will ultimately give him +6-7 SPD as a Valkyrie, which is enough to go to war with (plus temporaries with Say'ri or Anna or Lon'qu are fine). And I'll have a Laurent with instant DM access and Armsthrift for Mire-bombing. Should be a good time.
Anyway, OP updated with Chapter 8. Another solo by Louise, naturally, but probably the last one.
[spoiler=Chapter 8: The Grimleal]
Welcome to the desert, and the last chapter of Mercenary Louise. Buy a Bronze Bow before you start (just in case), and make sure that you have enough Levin Sword uses to last for the whole chapter.
Keys to the chapter: Rescue Nowi and Gregor, prioritize killing the mages, and collect all of the freebie items here.
We'll be deploying Avatar, Frederick, Cordelia, Lissa, and Miriel. Fred and Cordelia are here purely so that we can have an 8 MV flying decoy, and Lissa is attending for +MAG support and desert mobility. Normally the desert is a pain in the ass, but here it works in our favor. Reason being: it slows down all of the enemies here except the mages, and we want them dead first anyway.
Start Avatar on the left-most spot, pair Chrom with her, and then move two spaces south. This puts you in range of two mages and a Fighter, which you should be able to easily mop up with a Levin Sword, more or less regardless of enemy skill distribution. Cordelia and Fred can fly off to the right and distract people for a while; that's their sole purpose here. Move Gregor onto Nowi, and get them to a safe spot. Next turn will find Nowi in a lot of trouble, so this is where moving into position with Lissa and Rescuing with Miriel will be necessary.
The movements here are very simple and not really worth detailing. Keep everyone out of the way and have AvatarxChrom rip the place apart. Dual Strike is hilariously useful here. If you need a place to fall back to, there's a one-strip wide spot between the rock and a wall on the left hand side where you can turtle. Pass is basically irrelevant because of the movement penalties. Kill mages with Levin Sword, kill Counter Myrmidons by OHKOing them with a strong sword, and generally just kite everything until you clear the place out. Don't forget to pick up the Rescue staff, Master Seal, and Second Seal from the villages here before you kill the boss.
Louise capped STR/SPD/DEF and actually hit level 20 perfectly on the boss kill. Her stats below are post-promotion to Bow Knight.
Turns: 22
Heroes: Louise & Chrom
Level HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS Wlvl Louise 1.00 54 28 16 21 29 29 29 12 A Swd, E Bow Chrom 15.77 31 12 3 18 13 15 12 3 A Swd Miriel 6.53 38 2 15 19 23 16 8 20 D Stf Lissa 20.00 27 7 15 12 11 21 6 13 A Stf Frederick 3.49 30 15 2 13 11 6 15 4 D Axe, C Swd, A Lnc Supports S - Louise|Chrom A - Louise|Frederick B - Louise|Lissa, Miriel|Kellam C - Chrom|Sully/Lissa, Louise|Miriel/Vaike, Miriel||Frederick, Frederick|LissaLouise is a brick house right now. Paired with Chrom, she has 70 listed avoid, which means 95-100 actual avoid during Enemy Phase between support bonuses, Charm, and Patience. To put that into perspective, the biggest badass Silver Axe Wyvern Rider right now has 33mt and 100 HIT. Whoops. -
Gregor makes an alright Warrior. He's not amazing, but I don't have any amazing options, and I can't wait until Morgan/Lucina to add another unit to the army. The reason that I am wrapping him through Myrm first, is so that he gets Vantage and Avoid +10, while stocking a bit of SPD on the way.
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Hey man, only so much EXP to go around, and I really want to have a strong Bow Knight for Ch9. Chrom can get levels from DS, Miriel isn't a combatant anymore, and that pretty much empties my bench. Gregor will be next! Not sure yet if I want him to spend time as a Myrmidon, or just go right to Barbarian.You used too many units in that chapter >_>.
Cool, thanks. Being able to take my time is going to help quite a bit. There aren't a whole lot of chapters where I am not constrained in some way or another.Noice job, I can tell you some AI quirks for the next chapter:
- The fighter and DM combo on the left village won't move till you get in range of the DM.
- The last wave at the bottom won't move till you are in range of the killing edge Myrm.
- Nowi missed with a 91% against the boss and died, oh wait that isn't an AI quirk.
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OP updated with Paralogue 3. A lot easier than I expected. I should finally have a bow user by the end of Ch8 at the latest. REAL TALK.
[spoiler=Paralogue 3: A Strangled Peace]
This chapter is about as standard as they come: turtle up and get some EXP. Forget about saving the Villagers; they are toast. It's a bummer to miss out on the Robe, but this is
SpartaLunatic+.Keys to the chapter: carve out a defensive position, feed your units, don't forget to pick up the Blessed Bow.
We'll be deploying Avatar, Frederick, Kellam, Lissa, and Miriel. There's no need for fliers or big guns here. First things first, use a Second Seal (if you have one), and reclass Miriel to Troubadour.
[spoiler=For some reason, she keeps the hat.]
There are a couple of good spots to dig in on this map; the best is probably the boss area, since it has a choke and good terrain, but we'll be scooting into the upper left corner since Troubadours can't stand on Mountains. To your immediate left are an Archer, Mercenary, and Fighter. If someone stands to the right of the Fighter, you'll also attract a Pegasus Knight (not necessary to draw over, but convenient).
Pegs at this point of the game are basically made of glass. With a Killing Edge, STR tonic, and a B-rank Frederick support, Avatar only needs 18 STR to OHKO, even with WTD, to say nothing of what happens if you use one of the Bonus Box swords. You can't blick the Fighter, but he's easy to finish if Chrom weakens with a Levin first. This leaves only the Merc and Archer to deal with. In the event that you have some Pavise+ to deal with, just take a little longer to clear. Most of the enemies here will be going after the Villagers, so you have a window before you get blocked out. Naturally, if the enemies here on the LHS don't have Counter, Avatar can just (wo)man-mode them by herself.
After you clear a path, just hole up in the corner with Lissa/Fred, Miriel/Kellam, and Avatar/Chrom (we want some Dual Strike EXP) from left to right. Lissa exists here only to heal Miriel in case one of the 2-range units gets saucy. Since you're killing two Archers while establishing initial position, that leaves only three units left that can actually hit Miriel anyway: two Archers from the RHS, and a Short Spear Knight.
Kill whatever comes at you, trading as needed for Counter (Chrom in the Water with Levin also works if you need chip damage for Counter). If you luck out and get an enemy with Hawkeye that can actually hurt Avatar, you can get a couple levels on Miriel while blasting over the head with Levin (switch to Mend once she has D Staves, for more EXP). Clean up the mob, and kill the rest at your leisure (they don't move until you are in range). Don't forget to pick up the Blessed Bow from the village; it's a very important item for this run.
Turns: 40
Heroes: Louise & Chrom
Level HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS Wlvl Louise 16.00 44 25 15 17 25 27 27 9 A Swd Chrom 14.91 30 12 3 17 13 14 12 3 B Swd Miriel 4.28 36 2 14 18 22 15 7 18 D Stf Lissa 20.00 27 7 15 12 11 21 6 13 A Stf Frederick 3.49 30 15 2 13 11 6 15 4 D Axe, C Swd, A Lnc Supports A - Louise|Chrom/Frederick B - Louise|Lissa, Miriel|Kellam C - Chrom|Sully/Lissa, Louise|Miriel/Vaike, Miriel||Frederick, Frederick|LissaLouise is turning out nicely; she has capped STR, and is about to cap SPD and DEF. Her days as a tier 1 unit are nearly over. I expect that she'll be able to finish her S-rank support with Chrom by the end of the next chapter.Miriel only needs another 6 levels before she's eligible for Valkyrie training, finally.
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FYI, I am in the midst of writing a Lunatic+ guide/walkthrough that emphasizes reliable clears (i.e., minimal resetting). Link is in my sig. You will find a lot of helpful stuff there, I think.
This is basically true. Nosferatu heals 50% (rounded down), Counter deals 100% damage in melee (doesn't work at range), and you can only steal what the enemy actually has left. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out what's going to happen in the long term. You can extend the life of it a bit by throwing Sol in there, but even this is only a SKL% chance of combining with Nosferatu to heal back most or all of the damage done.As for Lunatic+? I've heard that the ability "counter" is effective at stopping this strategy, and that what counter does is it hits your unit back for the amount of damage it inflected, effectively negating the tanking aspect of Nosferatu tanking.
Ultimately you are going to run into situations where you have too much Counter and not enough skill activations. This is fine if you don't mind resetting a lot, but it can get pretty annoying and you still have to plow through the earlygame.
Nope. Assassins don't have enough concrete defense. It's a strong class up through midgame, and spending some time there to get Pass is worth your while for at least one unit, but that DEF cap will destroy you lategame. It's not just Hawkeye, either: enemies have illegal forges and people start getting the HIT + 20 skill even when they aren't Snipers.I've heard that a double Assassin pair equipped with bow/sword is the best team to beat Lunatic + with.
What is your definition of "best"? I would not even call Nosferatu tanking in vanilla Lunatic the "best", it's just a really dummy-proof way to do it.1) Is Nosferatu tanking viable in Lunatic + ?
A) If so, is Nosferatu tanking still the BEST tactic in Lunatic+ like it is in regular Lunatic mode?
B) If not, is the dual Assassin strategy the best tactic, or is there a better one?
I have no idea what this means. Lunatic+ is not even available until you have a postgame file.I'm talking about post-game Lunatic +, not the first run-through.
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Should be entertaining, in an "Island of Misfit Toys" sort of fashion.
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We're now up to Ch8, and still I have zero bow users in my "bow user playthrough". Does that seem right to you? Thread updated with Ch7, spilled into my second post. I guess I should have reserved three or four of them, at this rate.
[spoiler=Chapter 7: Incursion]
While surviving on this map isn't difficult because of the mountains and mono-physical enemies, it's annoying to keep healers from getting pegged because of the flying Wyvern Riders. So we'll be approaching this chapter similar to how we did Ch5: turtle up, kill the fliers first.
Keys to the chapter: bring lots of consumables for healing, set up a defensive formation on the mountains, prioritize killing the Wyvern Riders, feed as much EXP to Avatar as possible, watch out for the Rider reinforcements after Cordelia shows up.
I'll be using Rexcalibur on Miriel (buy it from Lucia's team, sell Beaststone if you need money). She's a little bit short of a straight OHKO with Arcwind because of being 3 points MAG-screwed, and I don't want to deploy Ricken for Pair-up bonuses on this chapter because I need a place to hide Cordelia. Plus, this tome will be useful later, so it's a decent investment. So Rexcalibur it is. The OHKO ability makes Counter irrelevant unless you run into the rare Aegis+/Counter enemy (in which case just tank it unequipped and have Avatar help). Elwind is perfectly serviceable here as well, but increases your exposure to random skills, and I am going for maximum reliability.
Your defensive formation will be set up right near the starting spot, and is going to look like this:
PPPPPP M3PPP M12P MM M
Where P is a Peak, M is a mountain, 1 is Chrom, 2 is Avatar, and 3 is Miriel. Pairs are up to you; I choose to use Frederick and Kellam here, wherever they are needed, because there are no enemy mages. It costs 4 movement points for a tier 1 foot unit to move onto a mountain tile, so use the Pair/move/Separate trick to get people into position quickly. If you aren't in place by the end of Turn 2 Player Phase, you did something wrong.Avatar is basically invincible, particularly once she gets Patience. The axe guys in this chapter have 20 listed HIT or less on Louise here (zero if she has a Sword equipped), and generally can't hurt her when they connect unless they have Luna+. Chrom is less durable, since his natural DEF/avoid is lower and he doesn't get the benefit of his own Charm, but he can get by if you're careful. Use a DEF tonic and Kellam/Frederick for best results.
When Cordelia arrives on the map on Turn 3, she can just barely make it to the tile beneath Chrom; leave him free by giving away his partner (or have Miriel take the partner away) so that she can hide on him immediately. This may require killing a unit first to make room, but both Miriel and Avatar are equal to the task. After you secure Cordelia, I'd suggest adjusting to this layout:
PPPPPP 3MPPP 12MP MM M
i.e., everyone shifts left. This is a safer way to deal with the forthcoming trio of Wyvern Rider reinforcements that are about to drop where Cordelia just came from (Turn 5 Enemy Phase). Since their skills are un-knowable in advance, you'll have to fight unequipped unless you can OHKO, and that means they'll have decent hit rates against Chrom. Limit his exposure. This means that ground-based enemies get Mountain bonuses, but such is life. Stow Cordelia on Avatar if you wish, so that your lowest DEF units get to use Kellam and Frederick.From here, basically the routine is to hold out and pick off enemies as you can (trading to protect against Counter, as usual), letting Miriel take care of the Wyvern Riders to the extent possible. There are no skill combinations that will result in guaranteed restarts here, but you'll want to be careful of Hawkeye/Luna+ combo enemies, and prioritize killing them off ASAP if they exist. Use consumables to stay healthy. Everyone is adjacent to Chrom here, so they have Convoy access. Don't be shy about using Panne's Concoction if needed; an enemy here drops another one, and they will be buyable after Ch8. Keep in mind that Miriel can Mire-bomb a distant Counter unit if she has a free action.
Vasto wandered over with the last wave of three Riders, and I just blicked him with Miriel. Fin.
Turns: 9
Heroes: Louise & Frederick
Level HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS Wlvl Louise 11.86 40 25 13 15 23 23 23 7 A Swd Chrom 13.35 29 12 3 16 13 14 12 3 B Swd Frederick 3.49 30 15 2 13 11 6 15 4 D Axe, C Swd, A Lnc Lissa 20.00 27 7 15 12 11 21 6 13 A Stf Miriel 12.43 35 3 13 17 19 14 9 16 A Tome Supports A - Louise|Chrom B - Louise|Frederick/Lissa, Miriel|Kellam C - Chrom|Sully/Lissa, Louise|Miriel/Vaike, Miriel||Frederick, Frederick|LissaI hope you enjoyed the Miriel Show™ (I know I did), because it's time for her to spend time training staves as a Troubadour, with the eventual aim of Demoiselle and a Valkyrie promotion. Fortunately we don't need her offensive prowess anymore once Avatar promotes to Bow Knight, which will be happening soon after we pick up Ch8's Master Seal. -
They could have executed it better, but I understand why they didn't go all-in. It's a nice taste of what's possible, and for what it's worth, I like it and hope that it gets improved.
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It's a tile, like a throne or a forest. Grima is standing on it. Gives +3 defense, +20 avoid.
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Grima has an 80% chance to activate Pavise (Rightful God), so an all-Pavise round is going to be pretty common (about 40% of the time). The game rounds down fractions always. Don't forget about the +3 DEF from Ire. That changes your math a bit. Morgan would hit for 3 in that scenario, which is kinda meh.
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Can't confirm the Support unit thing, although Endgame does count as outdoors for "Outdoor Fighter", I know that for sure. You may also get Charm to work from Chrom.Can get +10-20 hit from Support, which I think still applies even if she's in the back. Does Outdoor Fighter count? >_>
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The 90 avoid figure doesn't include Ire (45 SPD, 45 LCK = 90 avoid), so you've got another 20 avoid to contend with on top of that, plus the 3 damage penalty.
Lucina might need a laser-scope.
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Ahh right, accuracy. 90 avoid is hard to hit, especially if you are the Support unit and can't forge your weapon. I had some trouble getting Lucina to land hits even on my non-LTC Lunatic+ file, because her unmodified HIT was something like 150-ish.
Even with a GK that has SKL and LCK stats maxed, before boosters you only have 157 base HIT on her. You might have to slot some skills or change the final class if you want a reliable Grima clear.
Is Armsthrift overrated?
in Fire Emblem: Awakening
Posted · Edited by Interceptor
I'm just clarifying for anyone else reading along. You have a bad habit of leaving out critical details.Setting aside for a moment that 35% skill activation doesn't result in "one Sol every three attacks", Counter isn't the only source of damage taken, and you tread a very fine line. Not even Dual Strikes will take effect before the Counter.
So are you prepared to admit that I have a point about Armsthrift, or are we going to continue your streak of obstinacy and hand-waving and shiny objects?