BBM

imo bard's latest post moreso indicated that he was totally out of touch with the thread other than the votals. parts of the case are okay, like I totally agree that omega should be looking at more of eury than just her push against me. but other stuff like "oh he's not that confident". so what??? why exactly does his switch on refa not look townish? other stuff like his statements arguing for certain things without a lot of backing is his playstyle and I don't feel good voting for him based on it. characterizing bard as eury pt 2 is only accurate if you only look at the fact that they're both pushing me for bad reasons. bard's problem outside of that is moreso that his posts didn't look at a large part of peoples content and giving excuses for not providing content. eury's is not committing to stuff and having a lot of nullread padding.

??? why ??? this was your last post: you have to give a reason for this change, especially why you're so convinced that you're willing to swing this lynch by yourself. We also need 5 votes to lynch and now it's 4-3 Bard-Omega

I agree that eury's claim isn't evidence that she's town, but it explained some of her play so that made me less suspicious of her than bard. Let's see what Bard posts once catching up. Based on his post talking about people getting mad at him about Refa I don't think he understands why people are voting for him.

if someone else had been the one to make the claim that "oh I know there's a daykiller but I don't know anything else" I would have thought they were also another cycle doc bc it would have made my role make more sense. but i guess it's possible that she read my claim and assumed I was the daykiller and was using it as a convenient fake? ##Unvote, ##Vote: Bard eury's play regarding me is still annoying BUT I can see how a confluence of my claim + paranoia + my misreading could have caused her to immediately have a bad view of me.

multiball with a day-killing scumteam and a night-killing scumteam is also possible if all the other roles are also based around this cycle premise rather than being locked to the night.

I guess I should admit that I am also a Cycle X Doc (not going to say what cycle). I didn't realize that multiple of this type of role might exist so I claimed informed townie because I thought town would want to know that daykills existed, and I figured the claim would be a good way to put me low on the prio list for scumkills. i don't think this makes it more likely or less likely that eury is scum; going to say null. my gut is that this role or this claim have been given to more people than just me and eury and at least one those is fake. I figured I might as well claim properly now though so people realized the full setup implications and also so there would be no weird discussions about my role vs eury's. this confirms if there are multiple cycle doc claims that the daykill is not 1x and is probably factional. guessing that we have a daykilling ITP and a bunch of cycle docs that can block either the ITP in the day or the mafia in the night, and we don't have a full-time doc. other cycle docs shouldn't claim at this point; I don't think it adds any value.

uhhhhh lmao Eury you realize that your roleclaim gives the exact same information that I was providing right? I don't understand why you were talking about how I was BSing when your role also tells you that there are daykills in the game.

= literally means EQUALS. if she found me Refa slightly more scummy than me she should have used a >. it's fair for her to use the fact that refa had a wagon on him as a reason for why she voted me over him, but it's super disingenuous to say "no actually I wasn't really scumreading BBM that much" when people focus on her case on me. not to mention that even if she DID find Refa more suspicious than me and had clearly indicated that, she still pursued the case on me and the majority of her content between her first ISO wallpost and her second ISO wallpost was regarding me. so what else are people supposed to focus on? i suppose if you weren't in the thread at the time and are just reading the thread hours later and not paying attention to the time stamps it's fair to think I was sheeping Refa on the Eury vote so I'll take that back. but regardless I just feel like eury's posts are super padded with questions to which the answers are very obvious. it also doesn't really feel like she follows up on her questions except to the people she's directly scumreading so I'm not really sure how they're helping her read others. i'm also okay with lynching bard but I think his lynch will give significantly fewer interactions than eury's.

anyways I agree with most of shinori's points about omega's posts and the lack of detail and flip-flopping as being scummy things. HOWEVER I also feel that this is his playstyle and that it's not different from his baseline. i see his playstyle as being somewhat similar to via's in that they both go strongly off gut and what they post in-thread sometimes short-circuits past their reasoning for it in their head. but with via we've played with him for a long time and have a baseline to compare to and we don't have as much of one for omega. i also thought he reacted well to the pressure against him by shinori. i wouldn't lynch this slot today; I think his alignment will become a lot clearer with interactions. would go eury > bard > omega and omega is just there for completion. i have to go now, but I'll be probably be back tonight and if not i'll be around mostly all day tomorrow until phase end

I'm not handwaving anything? I just didn't understand what he was doing, which is why I commented on it. this second paragraph is a paragraph of theory on why scum have the incentive to purposely misrep, responding to me saying you were only talking about theory and there was no grounding in actual events other than to say that I'd done it several times. like you never at any point look at those instances to see whether it made sense for me as scum to misrep something in that situation. not going to directly quote-reply to anything else about me, but your characterization of my play as a whole is wrong. it's frustrating that you put such an emphasis on reading correctly while totally ignoring some posts. it's quite obvious that I think bard is scummy; I have several posts where I say I dislike his posts and that I have a suspicion on him, I put him in a scumteam guess that I made, and I posted a bard case that you quoted. I'm pointing out negative parts of arcanite's play bc he's doing things that don't satisfy me, but I'm not directly scumreading him atm. i'm just questioning him and pushing him to try and get a better read on his play. same with omega but I'm a little more suspicious of him bc I hold him to a higher standard of play. I haven't sheeped refa in any place except on omega. it's definitely not a pattern. there have been times where we've had similar opinions, like both of us voting you, but I voted you like 2 minutes after he voted you. the post was in progress before he said anything but you can decide for yourself if I could have made that post in two minutes after seeing refa's post the rest of eury's reads in the big wallpost don't impress me very much. it's just a lot of "null leaning ___" and even the only actual strong scumread feels very surface-level, like "hey he's not really explaining much must be SCUM". also, if she didn't give any vote priorities or alignment summary at the end, I would think that she would still be voting me on the fencesitting and the sheeping and whatnot. that being said i don't agree with prims that this seems motivated as a counterwagon vote bc she also mentioned prims high up in her prio list and I think prims would have made more sense as a counterwagon vote. i think she's just voting omega bc she got lots of bad flak for the vote against me. also her defence that she found me less suspicious than Refa is disingenuous. she did vote me over Refa cuz Refa already had a lot of pressure at the time, but she found us both equally suspicious, marked by the = sign. still good with this lynch!! omega stuff in next post cuz this one is getting long but spoilers I don't want to lynch him

ok guys back now for about an hour; I've skimmed the past few pages but I'll read them more and respond in detail to stuff. before that though just some rolespec cuz of some questions: i think people don't understand how important lynch control is. in a 9/3/1 game where the mayor is mafia that means the mafia controls 4 votes in a 13p game. Minimum to lynch is 5 so that means they could almost by themselves force a certain lynch. they probably wouldn't tie themselves to each other like that, but they dont need to cuz of how uncertain people are. and if they needed to to avoid a scum lynch they could. and if the scum mayor is a good player, like sb in antihero, their vote counting double + them having good persuasive capabilities means whoever they want to get lynched is going to get lynched p much every day. in a 9/3/1 game this would snowball really fast. i'm 95% sure snike is not mafia. i could conceive an ITP mayor but nothing about his play suggests that and ITP hunting at this point is lame. prims is also town imo cuz of similar snowballing reasons. i really don't think this would happen cuz town needs the numbers to work out so well. i briefly considered that prims was totally BSing cuz he has the guts to do that, but if that was the case he wouldn't say "i get a small role if i lose my DPV" bc it would incentivize town to lynch him to test his role. next posts will be about content

shinori I hate to tell you this but most of your setups have been really scumsided. i'm not sure which multiball game had the scum mayor but if it was the one where one team had the scum persuader, town got fucked by roles/setup harder in that game than in maybe any game ever. i trust sb's game balance more and I trust he wouldn't have scum mayor in 9:(4) i could maybe be persuaded to lynch omega but I don't have time to read your case right now; will get to it later. my feeling though is that I'll get a better read on his alignment with a scumflip cuz I think interactions will be more telling than his actual play bc he has a weird playstyle I don't think eury defending you is really indicative of her alignment; probably more indicative of her being your girlfriend. there are lots of other things to the case against her though. this is a summary of my case:

this was the paragraph that bard took an issue with

walrein is really just null. i don't have a lot of scumreads atm and in my experience someone whom you don't have any kind of read on always ends up being scum so i picked him over rapier for the last spot because his posting pattern so far (a string of posts near the start of the day followed by nothing) is similar to last game. but others like prims, shinori, and arcanite could also be scum in that last spot.

whoops missed a link. talking about this post

bard is using basically the same arguments as eury for pushing me. He just isn't committing to them as much, though I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or bad thing. his bit about how I'm using my reputation for having bad misreading skills as a defence is dumb bc I'm not doing that. I don't like his case on me and I think his case on arcanite is willfully ignorant bc I told him "yeah ofc arcanite is skittish he's playing like his second game" and his response was to say that he doesn't know meta and is only going to focus on this game. not knowing meta and therefore not taking it into account is one thing, being told about a player's experience level and ignoring it is a totally different thing. experience =/= meta anyways. he's also talked a lot more about me than Shinori so I'm not really sure why his vote is there. also I didn't really realize this until someone (snike?) pointed it out recently bc a lot of his content was centered around me, but his last couple posts were kind of filler-y and didn't really try to engage with the thread. I think his first big post entry post was mostly not that scummy even if I didn't agree with the cases and I disliked how he talked about you. but this post is basically just a big post talking about why he's not giving content. this post doubles down on bad opinions (imo) and is essentially only a direct response to my posts talking to him, and not anything else that happened, including all my other posts not responding to him, and posts by another of his main scumreads, arcanite. dunno he did say he's busy so maybe when he comes into the thread next time he'll give more opinions on more people, and update his suspicions and stuff. part of my suspicion is also that I think he's been town in all his previous games on SF and he was a lot more obvtown and got killed N1 in most of them. this just doesn't seem up to that standard.

are we doing DAY 1 SCUMTEAM GUESSES mine is eury/bard/walrein with omega ITP i don't actually have a problem with what walrein posted but his posting patterns 2/3rds of the way into D1 have followed his patterns from last game pretty closely. rapier wild card tbh i doubt rapier even read that I also claimed to be an informed role.

idt arcanite has ever scumread me for misreading. his stance has been that it makes him wary and that's in the back of his mind but it's not the main thing he's using to judge my alignment, which I think is a fair way of going about it. main problem with arcanite right now is that I don't really know who he thinks is scum. his vote's on Refa but it seems from his words that that's dying down. also he talks about prims needing to come back and give darned good content which kind of seems like he didn't see Prims's content over the past few pages? dunno i'm like slightly leaning town on Weapons. suspicious parts about him imo are just his general tone while playing; basically the secondary parts of Prims and Refa's cases about self-consciousness. but I don't think the change on Prims is a sign of him being inauthentic. my reason for the slight townread is wifomy but I don't really see the benefit for scum!Weapons in wagoning onto Prims in that context. Refa was voting Weapons and also criticizing the Prims wagon and Weapons' response to that was to... sheep onto the Prims wagon? just feels like a very odd time to do it when the backlash against the wagon had already started, which makes me think he legit thought prims was scummy. sheeping refa's read on omega. general tone and proactiveness are good but he just says stuff with a lot of conviction and no real evidence like "one of prims/arcanite is scum" and "one of prims/weapons" is scum, which is weird. not really sure what to do about it.

uh is that a role action or are you just making a joke? also something I forgot to say wrt bard vs eury- i do think that bard is at least going to more of an effort to TRYING to give examples of me doing something scummy based on misreading. his examples are just bad imo so it leaves me confused.

i guess that's fair. my answer would be that regardless of her alignment, eury probably thought the reasons for townreading me on role were dumb and she could get people to change those easily. i also think that again regardless of alignment she didn't want to vote refa because there was already a wagon on him. bard has pushed the misreading thing like eury has too, which is part of why I dislike him. but he hasn't pushed it as much as eury has I guess so @Bard I would like you to clarify- do you think I'm intentionally misreading things to push a scum agenda or do you think me misreading a lot is just grounds to be wary? and if the former, why is shinori scummier than me?

omega's switch back to prims is really weird. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he just forgot to post his reasoning in his initial prims vote way back when, so that was fine I think. but then prims made a bunch of other posts, he mentioned that he mostly agreed with prims's scumreads, and he spent most of the past two pages talking about refa/eury- I don't understand why he switched back to prims at all. i can't actually remember the content inside eury's wallposts as town vs scum much bc my meta used to be that she would just find excuses not to post as scum and not really make any wallposts, so I barely ever even read them because I would just take her to be town as soon as she made wallposts. but then she had a game where she made wallposts as scum and I had to throw that meta out, rip to the 2nd easiest town meta ever (I hope my manix town meta never goes away) i will say though that this isn't so much her being nitpicky about my wording as her saying I'm scum because my actions have theoretical scum intent rather than showing why actions have actual scum intent with examples as to the lasting negative impact my misreading has had on the game.

via I don't think anybody is suspicious of eury for her rolespec about my claim? I'm suspicious of her because she's insistent on saying that I misread things on purpose to mess people's reads up while not giving any evidence for why she thinks I am doing so in this game, just theory on why a hypothetical scum might do so. it's part of a larger context of her looking at things in isolation and calling them scummy without looking at the context surrounding them, like her pushing refa for having filler posts even though it was RVS, or her pushing me for "coasting" by not pressing arcanite more even though arcanite had already talked about everything going on at that time. i don't think shinori interactions are a large part of the case against her either.

idk I'm probably being silly bc the rest of your post is mostly ok but it still bothers me ;/ but I'm not really interested in talking more about which of two page 2 cases you should have voted for so whatever. i don't really agree with the crux of the weapons vote though? i don't think there's much of a contradiction; it's valid to just think on first pass "yeah whatever this is fine" and say so when someone asks you, and then reread it again later and realize "wait no I don't like this". just because he answered a question about you doesn't mean he'd specifically gone back to read your posts. @Omega, why do you think Refa could be an ITP? i don't see anything that hints at that specifically. this feels like a weird accusation especially because you're aware of the fact that refa and eury don't make much sense as buddies so it feels like you wanted to push them both and are coming up with a reason to justify that? also, via doesn't really bother me. would like him to talk about his opinions on arcanite now though

i agree that the rvs arcanite wagon for having one filler post in RVS was dumb... but this doesn't actually make Refa having filler posts scummy either. the shinori defence stuff tbh I don't think is a great part of the case against eury. that just seems like playstyle differences wrt Eury including shinori in her priority list. that being said she was defending shinori. stuff like this is defending shinori's play: also this bit from eury on refa: lmao eury you misread refa's point totally. refa was saying that I would jump onto the Refa wagon after Prims responded to my vote on him, not that Prims would jump onto the Refa wagon. how could you be so careless if you're town??? WERE YOU TRYING TO PURPOSELY MISCONSTRUE REFA'S POSTS TO PUSH A CASE AGAINST HIM??? to be clear, I do think that this was a harmless misread. but that's the point; people post a lot of words and sometimes we mess up in reading them.

i dont have time to respond to anything but bard's post yes but... get this... once I realized I misread, I took all those things back. I'm not using it as an "excuse" to go around misrepping people; I just said that misreading people doesn't make me scum. I made some mistakes, once I realized I did, I corrected them. where am I using my misinterpretations to continue pushing cases AFTER I've realized what I'm doing is wrong? this whole thing is dumb. the posts that I had an issue with occurred after your posts making this point though i heavily disliked it because you're making this pompous grand statement like "LOOK AT ME I'M PURPOSELY NOT READING REFA'S WAGON!!!!" and actually you are. your contention was with their content, and their content was their votes on Refa??? i'm also not waffling because I never said it was scummy, because I couldn't find any scum intent in it. it just makes me feel uncomfortable. wtf are you talking about??? i KNOW I misread, and once I misread, I clarified what I meant or took it back. i'm not "happily continuing stints". wrt the weapons misread- i thought he was saying X, which I liked, but he was saying Y. once I realized this, I said X because that's what I actually found suspicious with Refa, and then I said I didn't like Y. i seriously have no idea what you're trying to say about my play. here's my opinion on yours- I cant look at any of your posts and say "this has scum intent". but I dont like most of what you're saying and your tone makes me uncomfortable. I have you as a minor suspicion because of this.