BBM

Mainly with Gaius I don't really like his actions towards Cam/Boron, where he attacked the wagon without actually defending Izhuark himself or saying why Izhuark was town. It's something scum do so that the wagonee still gets mislynched and then they can push the people who voted for them. Also didnt like what you pointed out, that his content was very narrowly focused. What does 'BBM those Cam posts' mean? I can get finding two people scummy who don't necessarily make sense as buddies. But it doesnt make sense to me that you find SB suspicious for one point in his case on Cam when you generally agree with the rest of it. In fact it seems more nitpicky than SB.

??? Boron is barely defending you; she's just stating her opinion on you vs izhuark This was a throwaway comment from Cam but it really bugs me. I get that Cam is doing a stream of consciousness thing but I don't get the point of saying this.

I think there are around 11.5 hours left Huh what Boron hasnt said you were scummy at any point afaicr. How is she trying to distance herself from your lynch?

@Paperblade idk I'm very conflicted about Izhuark and I've waffled a lot. I think his posts are pretty bad and focus on semantics and how people word things rather than what they actually mean- eg the whole bit about what scum would do vs what town wouldnt do. But his tone feels genuinely frustrated and I just feel like I've seen this script of the inexperienced player flailing around and getting mislynched day 1. I also think scum would be less stubborn in this situation? Cam is generally low activity as either alignment so I don't think his high effort is alignment indicative.

'what town would not do' and 'what scum would do' are most of the time pretty similar. Yes scum can emulate town behaviour but they do it for scum motivations. I don't know why you're spending time on this semantic difference izhuark. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Gaius Idk its frustrating that Cam is rolling over but ultimately I don't think he's wifoming here.

Eh I think Gaius's Prims vote is fine but his Izhuark wagon analysis feels like white knighting. Even classifying it as a 'wagon' was kind of weird because there were just two votes. The point that he's only really talked about stuff that he's directly involved with is good too. I'd probably go Cam > Gaius atm. I feel like Izhuark is town and won't vote him but I can't say I believe in it strongly enough to defend against his lynch. He needs to come back though. Shin what is scummy about SB's case on Cam even if you disagree with it? You seem to agree with the rest of his points. Also why do you think Cam is scummy?

Cam's opinions don't feel like a natural progression, because the change in his explanations are all about his original reasons. It's not "first I found him scumny for X and now I find him scummy for Y". It's like he voted Izhuark, was asked to explain it, and then changed the reasoning to something totally different and then also added reactions to it to justify keeping his vote there. Phoneposting today so my posts might be spammy

not saying you're waffling, just that it's inconsistent and seems like you're making stuff up. your point against refa is good though. refa's case about elie just driving by RVS Content and not saying anything about it is fair but it kind of bothers me that there was nobody else refa found scummier in the several pages of content after that.

sigh mafia is hard. I don't think Prims's posts are as objectionable as Cam's but I have a worse gut reaction to Prims. it's been a while since we've played obviously but he seems less assertive.

Prims's Shin vote was kind of scummy imo yeah. the pressure just seemed pointless when everyone including him knows Shin self-votes in RVS and it's dumb but ultimately meaningless. He said nobody else other than Zeonth bothered him so then why not vote Zeonth? he'd also be more likely to get a response from pressuring Zeonth, who's a new player, to pressuring Shin. Gaius, do you think Izhuark is town or just that the cases against him are bad? cam's latest posts feel sort of inconsistent? he's given two reasons for his paperblade vote: 1) he thought paper voted SB and 2) he disliked it because it seemed like a randomly placed weak defence. either of those reasons are okay by themselves but don't really fit together. if he thought paper voted SB then it's not really a random defence. also the reason he gave initially for his izhuark vote (he's voting paperblade for something he's defending izhuark for) is different from the reason he gave here. and neither of those two reasons make sense to me either. the second one is like a buzzword mashup.

vanilla claims would also get screwed if they get tracked, though I guess numbers give less flexibility. but non-vanilla claims just look better than vanilla, even something like numbers. it's minor but meh. I don't really know how to read izhuark's posts tbh. I can't particularly find a reason for why he's town but I think he is. boron's case is better than cam's though.

also numbers just seems like an easy fake. almost all 12p setups are 9/3; the utility it offers over a vanilla is minimal.

@cam- prims claiming numbers isn't really relevant to the scumslip though? gaius pointed out the same thing, albeit as a joke, on the first page. more importantly I still don't get your reason for voting izhuark. how is izhuark's reason for voting paperblade similar to his reason for saying SB wasn't scummy? @refa- I did say why I unvoted SB, in the post where I voted Cam... I said that I originally didn't like the vote because it seemed opportunistic to vote for something he could have voted for earlier, but as a pressure vote for reactions it's ok. The Cam thing didn't bother me until I reread the thread to look for a better vote when I didn't want to vote SB anymore. prims's shin vote is lazy. I agree that it's bad play for Shin to self-vote but it's still something Shin has done a lot as town, which Prims even alludes to in his post.

@Cam- i don't get what izhuark did that was hypocritical? how is what paperblade did similar to what SB did? also you were around to vote Shin for it, before he was at L-2. You RVS voted SB instead.

I don't have a real opinion on Paper atm. my initial reason for voting SB was that it seemed like he was voting Shin for a reason that could have applied for a while, so it did seem opportunistic, but as a vote just to get reactions it's ~ok~ ##Unvote, ##Vote: Cam reading back his Paper vote sort of bothers me because it's not like Paper said people were scummy or bad for voting Shin for his supposed scumslip; he was just like "I don't agree with this". Cam didn't vote Shin over it either so presumably he had the same opinion as Paper, so voting him seems kind of weird?

the "mafia wouldn't put someone in hammer range without actually hammering them" argument is a bad use of WIFOM. Why wouldn't they? Actually hammering would be super suspicious but nobody's going to bat an eye on vote-piling in RVS, and theoretically there could be an accidental RVS quickhammer, though I've never seen one

##Unvote, ##Vote: SB why?

I see; people were motivated enough to join the game but not motivated enough to actually post ##Unvote, ##Vote: Zeonth BACK IN MY DAY new players posted more early on

##Vote: SB Shin's post make me cry just looking at it

in it to hopefully not want to quit it after two days

well normally you'd have to get the setup checked over by one of the people designated as checkers (look at the mafia hq thread) and then go to the back of the queue, but you can just go ahead and post the signups if you want since nobody else is. but seeing as we haven't been able to fill games for a while, I wouldn't bother unless you message a bunch of people and can guarantee they're going to play.

I want Orbs!

I regretted that post before it even finished uploading

I'll be the 17th player

yeah I saw those imo it was an unheralded victory for the GOP to get the Affordable Care Act colloquially known as Obamacare. Democrats tried to make it a positive thing but clearly their efforts failed.