Life

Hi. Yeah, about that. Quick Strike is less likely to be seen at all than Ragnarok in the battle against Saturos on Mercury Lighthouse and when you consider that I had to grind to get to level before that fight, that's saying something.

But you're forgetting the fact that Apprentice/Page has been helping ever since we met Breeze in Bilibin. Let me put it this way. Just because Ninja and Samurai exist, it does not mean that Apprentice/Page is obsolete. If we go Apprentice/Page during Suhalla (bad example since Suhalla is wind based but it's accurate) instead of Ninja, will we notice the downgrade? As in will it be such a downgrade that Ninja towers way overhead? No it isn't. Enchanter!Garet gets Eruption (90 Dam) at level 22 and has 140% PP class bonus, more than enough needed to spam it every turn from Suhalla to Timbucktu and that's assuming that he's not using Astral Blast against 94 Def and 110 Wind Resist. If Enchanter!Garet goes through with Eruption, he's got 104 Fire Power against 95 Fire Resist. Ninja!Garet could always got with Punji Trap instead of Shuriken/Death Plunge but that's 91 Earth Power against 90 Earth Resist. This isn't even a win by the Ninja. Sure he's got exotic Psynergy. If he's not shitstomping Page!Garet between the time that we get him and the end of the game, he's not better than Page overall, especially when you consider that Page destroys Kolima Forest, Tret Tree and Altin Mine (possibly Mogall Forest too to an extent) in comparison to other classes.

Ninja and White Mage, yes. Samurai no. I actually debated this one with Narga. The problem with Samurai is that the game might be over before you get your first EPA. Demon Night and Dragon Cloud are actually both spells and gotten at low levels. Narga told me that he finished the game at level 30-31, before Samurai gets Helm Splitter, never mind Quick Strike with its 180% Mult Mod. This is something that I need to test with the Lure Cap equipped, though. The way that I'm looking at this list isn't an endgame list. It's a performance during the game from when you first get that class to the death of the Twin Dragon. I also don't think it's fair to penalize classes like Ninja or Samurai or White Mage because of that. That means that the real question here is "Is Ninja's lategame abilities much better than what Apprentice/Page can do for us over the course of the game?". My money is on no for right now unless I can be convinced otherwise OR I find evidence (I'm still looking but Illusionist!Garet is kinda destroying Altin Mine right now along with Ruffian!Isaac) that's contradictory to my thoughts. I kinda spam PP in battle to end battles quickly and without that much harm. And the worst Defense in the game along with no healing moves and no way to take out Wind resistant enemies. However, I told Narga that I'm probably underrating Wind Sage by a million miles. EDIT: Brute is going to rise over Squire for sure. The real question is what about Ascetic and Enchanter. But Brute is key for 3 turning the Killer Ape and 4 turning Hydros Statue. Who is absolutely pathetic since he's slow and his attacks don't do much. I started the battle damaged and only had to use Wish on Turn 3 to make sure that the Hydros Statue wouldn't get a lucky kill.

Very good point except Page!Garet is so freaking useful in the earlygame. Like I'm going to shitstomp my way through Kolima Forest and Tret Tree useful. Page!Garet IS your offense against Tret. Sure we could switch him to Guard to also use Volcano (we're talking a measly 5 Power boost) or we can have Garet still be our offense but not weaken up Isaac or Ivan (Seer!Ivan is your healer since he's actually got PP to spare, unlike Squire!Isaac).

Page/Apprentice get great magic psynergy, great class bonuses (especially Garet since it gives him a huge PP and Agi bonus), Astral Blast and Drain right before the game ends. That's pretty much broken without getting Wish. I haven't forgotten them. I've purposely not put them in. This is the first Golden Sun game. On another note, it's possible that Pilgrim might be worse than Wind Mage. Still trying to figure this one out.

Ninja has been moved to I am Chuck Norris tier for right now until I get the chance to test it out. What's it, 3 Wind and 3 Fire/Earth?

This is the list as I think it goes. Feel free to add your own suggestions and argue any of my placements. If there's more logic behind your reasoning than behind mine, the change gets made. Also, we have 2 different lists since we're talking about two different games. If you want to argue a class up or down, make sure you specify the game. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn will be added as soon as it comes out and I get my mitts on it (I'll be in Israel at the time so it might be a bit hard, not to mention that I don't have a DS yet). The Golden Sun: The Lost Age list is not up yet due to me not having played it in over a year while I am currently in the middle of Golden Sun. Now, a couple of things: Golden Sun (1) Rules: 1. If you need formulae, everything is explained beautifully here. It's quite straightforward and well written. Use it well, young Padawan. 2. Not all status based psynergy is useless. Bind and Sleep both have useful periods. Impact and High Impact are invaluable. Break and Restore are also great. Please remember this before making a comment when I claim that x class is so high because they have access to Impact (and I will direct you to my 3 turn kill of the Killer Ape which involves Impact) or something similar. However, Curse is worthy of being made fun of and should be heckled at all times. No exceptions. 3. On the lists, I will list each class as the BASE class. If you come across an unfamiliar class during discussion, refer to this spoiler. Use Ctrl F to find the correct family. 4. Availability with regards to classes like Samurai, White Mage, Ninja, ect... mean nothing if that class can trivialize the game from the time that you can access it. I do not see a reason to dock points simply because certain Djinn don't exist earlier in the game. It's like saying that swords are better than guns simply because they've been around since people have been beating each other over the head with shit. That reasoning forgets that a gun can blow a hole in your face before you can say "Draw". Same reasoning here. 5. We are assuming that all 28 Djinni are found. What this means is that you return to northern Angara to get both Kite (Vale) and Sap (Vault) as soon as you get to Kalay. It also means that Taodonpa is defeated and you receive Tonic from Donpa immediately after getting the Cloak Ball from Babi. This is after Colosso is over and is not dependent on whether Isaac beat Navampa or not in the final round. You can always get the Cloak Ball from Babi since the official prize is the Lure Cap. 6. Max PP is not guaranteed for boss battles. The only battles where it is (to my knowledge) are Saturos on Mercury Lighthouse and Saturos/Menardi on Venus Lighthouse. Keep in mind that this does not count the Twin Dragon (since you don't have max PP for that fight) or Deadbeard unless there is a Psynergy stone on Level 9 of Crossbone Isle after the door battle. Which I cannot remember. Golden Sun Tier List I am Chuck Norris tier: Hermit White Mage Ninja Apprentice/Page Call me... Batman tier: Cavalier (Mia) Samurai Dragoon Brute Ascetic (Garet) Welcome to the Joe Schmo Show tier: Enchanter (Ivan) Seer Swordsman Pilgrim Ranger Squire God, you suck tier: Wind Seer Shaman (Isaac) Medium Guard Water Seer Princess Peach Tier: Flame User These are my personal thoughts on how the classes rank. I'm really sure that parts of it are wrong but I think the best way to have the tier list is 4 tiers (bottom one is Jenna's class at the beginning of the game).

It's also why nobody here takes you seriously. Clearly you suck at these games and blame the characters for it.

11 but most of it was a road trip from Toronto to Orlando. Aside from that, New York (Buffalo and NYC), Florida, Texas, California, Rhode Island and Maryland (I think I stayed there when I went to DC).

New thread? Since this is actually Integer's playthrough thread. If we go to a new thread, I can post finds from boss fights and other shit like that.

Only in Mercury Lighthouse. Ember (Mars) restores 7% of your Max PP on a specific person. PP is an issue depending on the dungeon. Tret Tree can easily take a lot out of you and Mogall Forest is no picnic. That being said, Lamarkan Desert is laughable since they hand you a Psynergy Crystal in the middle of it. Pretty sure Suhalla Desert and Gate are tough on the PP though. And Venus Lighthouse is an obvious one too.

That sarcasm? Kinda hard to tell over the internet.

What's great about you being wrong about the bolded is that you can sit a person in one class for most of the game, switch them to another one right before the Twin Dragon and suffer no consequence.

Not really. Ranger's decent at best (3 Wind and 3-4 Fire which are the two most coveted Djinn in the game IMO) since it's got meh bonuses and the Psynergy's kinda lame (Volcano series is good but Slash and Douse are both pretty mediocre, not to mention that there's no Ply and Wish).

Swordsman: It's a shame, to be honest. You get access to some of the best Psynergy in the game (Cutting Edge, Ply series, Wish series, Blast and Guard series for Garet, Thorn series and Revive for Isaac, Restore, Break and Cure Poison) and the 90% class bonus in PP is a slap in the face since it's applied to the two guys with the lowest base PP in the party. It's just sad. The rest of the bonuses range from mediocre to average but that PP bonus is what kills the class. And it's a shame too since if we had a 110% bonus, I'd be calling this class one of the best in the game. I agree with your 6.5/10 rating on this one. Wind Seer: Here's the deal. You're looking at the worst defense in the entire game with this class (tied with Hermit for both Ivan and Mia) and yet, it's actually kind of decent. Ivan only needs 2 Jupiter for Magister, which gives him the Impact series and the level of Wind Psynergy he gets is quite good (Whirlwind, Ray and Plasma series are the three best Wind Psynergy families). He's also hitting that Wind weakness that most of the enemies in Venus Lighthouse and Babi Lighthouse have. If he had any healing moves, I'd be tempted to say that it's an above average class. I personally think that a 5/10 rating is more fair. Water Seer: Oh dear... I don't even want to tackle this one. The only thing Mia can do well in this class is heal. That's it. She's stuck with Tundra (40 Dam) between Imil and the end of Lamarkan Desert (Ice Horn is level 17). That means that we're talking about 2 water based dungeons (Mogall Forest since most of the enemies actually have a water resistance and Altin Mine) and then a fire based where she's doing barely more than moves like Plasma, Gaia, Spire, Blast (Nova series) and Volcano. Think about that for a second. Let it sink in. My god, Water Seer!Mia could be the second worst class in the entire series (only Mariner!Piers is worse and when you consider how bad Water Seer!Mia is, that's saying something) and is by far the worst in this game. I'd give her a 2.5/10 solely because of Wish before Lamarkan Desert. That's my take. We should do a tier list for Golden Sun classes. WTF Broken Tier would have Page/Apprentice, Hermit and White Mage probably.

Ninja, I hope you realize that you've been admitting that you play on Easy Mode. Which means you're not using anyone who's being pushed to the best of their abilities. Hell, I'm on my first playthrough of the game and I'm on Normal only because I can't choose Hard. And I'm not great at FE games (I failed S Ranking EHM thanks to Exp). So if anything, my opinion after a single playthrough on Normal mode should mean more than your opinion on Kindergarten Mode. As for favourite Est, I'll take Nino hands down. I took her from a level 5 Mage to a level 3 Sage between the start of BBD and the end of CoD on EHM. She was dodging and doubling Steel Sword Heros and almost ORKOing them as a level 18 Mage. She's got really good bases and pretty awesome growths for an Est (TAKE NOTE TILTYU).

It would. If we had 3 Mars Djinni at the time, I could have stuck Forge on Ivan or Mia and unleash him. But since we only need to and there's a big jump in Att between Brute (1 Mars on Isaac) and Ruffian (2 Mars), it doesn't work. It's a fantastic idea though. Also, there's this about Saturos. It works like a charm. Ivan should be going before Saturos anyway so you don't have to worry about HP that much.

Remember King Russell? Yeah, hi. I love Russell Hantz.

Seer: Ward and Resist knock your resistance up which isn't as useful as Guard and Protect if you ask me. But the real problem with this class is its lack of power behind the high level Psynergy. Sure Ivan learns Blue Bolt at 22 and Wild Growth at 29. So what? Wild Growth has a 110 Dam base. Blue Bolt is even worse with a 90 Dam base. You know what's stronger than that? Shine Plasma (100 Dam) and Ivan learns it at 26 as a White Mage, Wind Seer, Hermit or Pilgrim. And I haven't even mentioned Spark Plasma (180 Dam) yet. The Cure series is quite nice for the earlygame along with Revive, though. But we're still talking 8/10 max IMO. Page/Apprentice: There's too many reasons why this class is so good. Astral Blast is the only Wind EPA with an Add Mod of 32. And it only costs 5 PP. Mia and Wind Djinni don't mix well meaning that you'll get a chance to be using this class. Impact (5) and High Impact (21) when you get to Enchanter (remember how I needed to casts 4 Impacts to 3 turn the Killer Ape? With High Impact, it'd take 1 turn). If it hits, Sleep is awesome. Isaac and Garet actually have enough PP to use Grand Gaia and Pyroclasm unlike their base classes. Drain and Psy Drain are low cost HP and PP healing moves. Fuck, this is a 10/10 right here. And if Isaac had access to the Cure series and Revive (earth based), this class would be broken for him. Also, don't forget to do these classes when you can access them: Shaman (Wind) - Isaac Shaman (Water) - Isaac Ascetic (Water) - Garet Ascetic (Wind) - Garet Enchanter (Earth) - Ivan Enchanter (Fire) - Ivan Cavalier (Fire) - Mia Cavalier (Earth) - Mia Dragoon Ninja Samurai Ranger Medium White Mage Honestly, I love this game. The concepts that it uses are pretty simplistic and yet there's so many options for how to kill enemies best. Want to summon beings far greater than anything your opponents have seen? Bring in Ramses or Artemis or even fucking Boreas and watch things die. What about the Djinn? Use them to buff yourself, attack your enemies and even stop damage. What about powerful magic? We have that right here. And you actually gain PP while you walk (this is something Final Fantasy should have implemented in their games a long time ago, I'm sick of running out of MP for Vivi halfway through a dungeon). And don't forget about weapon roars too. Like I said, I love this game.

Spoon, I believe that a majority has been lynched. Which means Bizz has 3 more hours to live or if nobody's going to change their vote, you should just end the phase ASAP.

Here's what I know from GS2. I figure it's the same way in GS1.

I know exactly what you'd have to change. I just have no clue about hacking stuff. Gaining stats in this game works on a goal system. The game sets a goal of how much HP or whatever you need by level 19 and you gain a certain amount of that stat until you get to that goal at that specific level. All you need to do is change the goals to match the base stats of each character and off you go. You still gain the Psynergy at whatever level since you get Exp, you just don't gain stats. On this type of run, Psynergy, defensive Djinn and Summons would be god. None of those three care about growths that you get in the game since they're all based on elemental levels which have a base of 76 at the least and a max of 139 if you've gone mono-element. The real problems would be EPAs and Djinn attacking. However, Granite (divide all damage by 2) would make most of the early and midgame pretty easy (from Kolima Forest to about Lamarkan Desert at least) and combining that with Torch would break the last couple of places (divide all damage by 10) for sure. Shade (GS2) is another one of those game-breaking Djinn in this kind of run.

I need a better idea for what Mia should do for damage but I think Sleet's her only option. Hi there summon rush? I can always beat them to the ring, the question is whether or not I can tack on 820 damage against Navampa's 90 Resist (across the board).

You're just speculating here. If Bizz is confirmed, you lynch her before lynching me. Either Mafia needs parity with the town to win. If you have a confirmed Mafia member, you lynch them before going after your suspicions. ## Kill Bizz in an epic way