Naglfar

they decide to liquidate and make youtube cartoons instead; universal win

clipsey, I'd feel better if you didn't misrep a vote I literally just made. that aside, I agree that kirsche isn't exactly the most difficult of lynches to get to at the moment, but I arrived at him through wagon analysis, as I hope you can see. the logic of "kirsche looks like an easy mislynch => make up a reason to vote kirsche" doesn't work without evidence that voting him was the plan all along.

it's not like my post is entirely unedited, what with the whole section about the recent kirsche votes that I cut out because it mostly boiled down to "well I guess these aren't too bad after all" and I identified it as not being worth reading. I do try to keep my posts bloat-free, you know. stream of consciousness is just how I naturally write, so sorry if it's not perfect to you, but you're asking me to change my playstyle over what's at most a minor issue. where did I change my mind mid-post, anyway? now that I think about it, psych's reaction to the scumslip accusation was pretty interesting, coming from a guy who himself said that it's hard to get reactions out of him. someone who knows psych's meta better than I do should think about why he made such a big deal out of it.

good morning time for mafia so addressing the major points that are sticking in my head, it seems people think bizz was sheeping/opportunistic for being second onto a wagon with different reasoning to the first vote, four minutes later, and now she has a wagon. that's pretty dumb, I think. shinori's response to his wagon reads to me like a more ragemad version of how I played toonami D1, and the overreacting is pretty consistent with how his SB vote turned out in the first place. while I don't think a "how dare you attack me" attitude is especially helpful, I imagine it's a lot harder to be offended by people's accusations when they're right about you. guess I'll step off. I think all the thought being put into kirsche's post is a little bit silly. like, how well do you really think you can read someone when they're drunk, gay and tired? I was wary of anyone who would vote him for that post, so I typed up a little analysis and it turned out to be 100% clutter. I don't see any especially suspicious behaviour on his wagon yet. soooooo back to bizz's wagon to see who looks bad there. this vote and the defense of it that followed just look bad to me, I understand where the kirsche scumreads are coming from. I really can't see how this case works, and with it starting out pretty much entirely "wow sheeping/opportunism so scum" with anything resembling insight being gradually introduced in subsequent posts makes it look like you were just making this case up as you went along. then you suddenly show up shitfaced and unvote because suddenly even you don't understand your case. looks to me like you've been bullshitting quite a lot, and it goes without saying that town has no need to do that. ##Unvote ##Vote: kirsche obviously I can't build a case on somebody over one post but this is pretty bad too. it just... doesn't look like you thought this through at all. like "hi guys I'm here, gee I'd better vote someone, hey this'll do, ##vote, /out". I know as well as anyone that the pressure to contribute + not really caring at the time can lead to posts like this regardless of alignment but I'm keeping my eye on you. aaaa~aaand since I started writing this post, two more pages have popped up. you people post way too much, especially you wombat, holy shit. imma go get something to eat and watch SGDQ. looks like the mega man block's on.

final check on phone in bed fine whatever ##Unvote ##Vote: kirsche

wow guys cam's entire case on me is based on half a sentence, such pro ##Vote: Shinori because at this rate I might not be around at phase end and this vote represents my best efforts anyway. g'night bros.

so this morning I pretty much burnt out all my mafia energy on a three-hour post for toonami and it's all I can be fucked to do right now to stay vaguely aware of what's going on. I get stressed out when I feel like I'm not doing as much as I should be but maybe being honest about my shittiness will make me feel better. really sorry, I promise I'll effort something after I wake up tomorrow.

sigh you people are worse than useless and I'm not wasting any more hours trying to help you. I have another game to think about and other things in my life. let me know where you want my vote.

gj reading comprehension bro. btw leave your vote right there. so assuming snike winning doesn't mean we lose I'm happy to let him do whatever for the time being, especially since he just cleared like five people.

j00, with BBM's plan it doesn't matter who's voting and who isn't, what matters is how we split up the pairs :/ okay are you even trying. you ignore literally all of my plan except for the shinori lynch part, which makes much less sense without context (but still plenty). also, this distancing thing again? it sort of made sense back with neko's claim, but this is asinine. like, not only is my suspicion of shinori not a factor in my plan, it wouldn't even be hard to catch me with my own plan in the case of town!shinori and scum!me. of course, if you won't even read my posts, I guess I can't count on you to contribute voting setups or questions. you too. read my claim again, that's not why N1 went the way it did. ignoring that BBM is also trying, just not very hard, to solve the game with roles, it would be great if you didn't just say "no that's bad". pretty sure you're better than this. re: desperate plan to keep the lynch off me: I was the first to come out and pretty much demand that we use kirsche's role like this and I'm the one putting all the ideas forward. this is a fucking horrible move for any mafia that wants to win. I've also pointed out how my own plans aren't even a free pass for me already. these two posts are really off. blatant misrepresentation of what I've said, and cutting corners in logic to come up with reasons not to trust me. this is pretty much exactly how I expected the mafia to attack me. anywaaaaaay, we're in danger of being stuck with no time to implement anything but BBM's cop-out plan, but I've thought of just the thing. fuck my old plan, you don't even have to pretend to trust me. here: first, we need everyone who isn't one of the five suspects to unvote. after that, shinori and I (this is my recommended setup, but anything will do) vote each other, one other suspect votes me, and the remaining two vote shinori, resulting in a 3-2 lynch. the question is: how many scum players had their votes on a town player at the end of D2? let's look at what we could find out here. shinori flips town, answer is zero: that would mean three clears. impossible. shinori flips town, answer is one: again, two townies on a lynched townie's wagon is impossible here. shinori flips town, answer is two: this one's complicated. one dead townie. one townie on shinori's wagon, because there are two scum there. so the last scum has nowhere to be except on my wagon... but if I were town, that would blip the sensor too. myself and the guy on my wagon are confirmed scum and you have a 1v1. shinori flips town, answer is three: shinori's entire wagon is scum lol. shinori flips scum, answer is zero: if I were town, shinori's vote on me would be counted in the answer. you catch two scum, and have three suspects for one more. shinori flips scum, answer is one: as I said, a nonzero answer means I'm town. with shinori confirmed as that one scum, the other player voting me is cleared as well, incriminating the remaining two scum who have nowhere left to be but on shinori's wagon. shinori flips scum, answer is two: so I'm town again, and both people voting me aren't. you have two caught scum and a 1v1 between the other two guys. shinori flips scum, answer is three: impossible with only two players voting me. this is better than BBM's plan because we have no chance of ending up in the awkward situation of only lynching one scum and having two 1v1s (a thing you'd better believe the mafia will bust their asses to make happen), we do have a chance of finding all three at once if the guy we lynch flips town, and the worst thing that can happen will only happen if shinori and I are both scum, which still results in two scum being found. also to people who think I'm trying to hide from a lynch, you may have noticed that this plan will reveal my alignment no matter how it turns out. now, for god's sake, can we please get started? just, uh, this here. @hosts: considering the point of this rule and the nature of the circumstances, can we have it not apply for the time being? if we can't for some reason I guess we can just have players not involved in the plan vote themselves so we can stay above the threshold without the extra votes affecting the results. aaaand people are claiming wow time to read

popping in for a second with a shitty idea negative utility mafia, a small game I dunno nine players or something

bluh bluh numbers claim and a hidden I guess. elieson's acting kinda weird but who the fuck knows what that means. it's probably mostly his post restriction. shinori why the hell are you voting over that of all things? he didn't get a joke or something. whatever. I don't understand how your logic applies to the situation; it looks like you're the one trying too hard to make something out of nothing. ##Vote: Shinori I'm off to sleep now too l8r bros

oh yeah can we get sum voatls and now I'm out for the night

okay I thought of a better mislynch question for my plan and gee all I had to do was flip it around ask how many scum players had votes on them at the end of D2. keeping votes off the suspects we aren't lynching, we could have like two or three people cleared, or at least create a really short list of suspects for another scum slot. I think these votes should be on people's scumreads, since I think in such a situation, clears wouldn't be as helpful as suspects. list of candidates: BBM, scorri, cam, snike, xinnidy and myself if you absolutely must. this whole plan involves trusting kirsche so including him would be dumb. as if anyone would incriminate themselves with their own result anyway. time to post a more substantial version of my plan because we need to get this gay pride float to the parade. lynchee: shinori - sorry dude, according to your own claim you're basically a plain old hated townie right now. if you're telling the truth, and you survive to a final-three gamestate, the town loses, so I'd rather we kill you when a mislynch hurts the least. and if you're lying dirty terrible mafia scum, then good for us I guess. lone suspect: prims, voting ??? - as I said earlier, I'm awful at reading you, and you're not even playing normally this game. I dunno what the hell is even your deal this game. this setup guarantees us learning your alignment. sounds like you might be having problems irl so if that's the case, here's to your shit getting sorted man. paired suspects: j00 and SB, voting ??? - that leaves you guys. I've felt pretty good about j00 all game and kinda whatever on SB, but this is mostly through power of elimination anyway, so not much to say here. lynchers: me and my D1 wagon, with preferably no more than one person voting someone else - I'd prefer not having any votes stray from here, because I like the 2-4 split should our lynch flip town, but there's no particular reason for my preference and I can live with 3-3. upon a town flip: kirsche uses his role to ask how many scum players had any votes on them at the end of D2. what happens next is logic. upon a scum flip: kirsche uses his role to ask how many scum voted for the two-player wagon guy. do logic. kirsche, do you think I'm town or not? also everyone, who should the miniwagons be on? because I dunno lol. and BBM especially, if you want it your way I really want you to do something like this too. I would obviously rather the decision making be done before it's too late to coordinate the votes.

yeah for real where is literally everyone more attempts to make people feel better about me, how about my N0 idling? nobody's coming forward to dispute that, so I hope everyone at least believes I did. I think as scum I could pretty easily use the role to cover my buddies from investigative roles early on and make up some shit about being compulsive or whatever when it came time to claim. also, scum!me playing conservatively on N0 then going yolostrats on bard immediately afterwards, followed by a pretty much straight-up claim, makes no sense to me. facts, people. better than scumtells.

I'm just acknowledging that it's possible. I guess I'm a little self-conscious about people getting on my case for looking too confident about him, but in that post I was trying to objectively lay out the risks involved regardless for the sake of making a point. it's not so much that I believe him, which I do, than it is my opinion that not taking this chance isn't going to get us out of this gigantic hole of four dead townies on day two. anything else to say? you and I need to sort out our disagreement.

ugh, fuck logic. a result of three or four on that question doesn't clear anyone.

@BBM: less fucked in my case, but definitely in kirsche's if we're trusting him. I'm just saying we wouldn't be able to come back from that. as for prims, I find him a pain to read. fair enough on the rest, but I question why the mafia would use a one-shot silence on N0. I guess I'm not convincing you to trust me at this rate, and obviously your plan looks safer, but I'd like you to understand the risk/reward that's actually involved here. first, if kirsche is scum, we're in huge trouble if we listen to him at all. in that case, my alignment hardly matters. in the event that I'm scum and kirsche is town, going with my plan screws us; but in any other situation it's either equal or superior. as for the results of trusting me, you can aim to lynch scum if you really want to, but hitting town would be the best case scenario. yes, mislynching is bad, but isn't one town for one scum considered a good trade? how about one town for three scum and getting to use kirsche's question for something else? how about... how many scum players had no votes on them at the end of D2? you could clear half the playerlist that way. just set the votes up correctly, none on the suspects that aren't being lynched. one on me, I guess. if it returns two, I have some explaining to do. if it returns three, everyone without votes on them plus me is town. four is iffy but still clears me, with five we could pretty decisively clear everyone with votes on them. in addition, if we lynch scum, and there turns out to be no scum on the two-man wagon, of course that incriminates me. so understanding that this plan has a significant chance of blowing up in my face should I be scum, I'm going to continue to strongly recommend it. @scorri, why do you want me to vote so badly? right now I'm trying to convince a town full of people who think I'm scum to do what I say, with an untouched mafia on top of that who would want me to shut up more than anyone. kinda got my hands full, ya dig?

oh yeah one more vote for massclaim because whatever we do it'd better be an informed decision

I dunno what to say about the flavour, but it sounds to me that you guys targeted bard and your shit didn't work. because I safeguarded him. splendid indeed. OP, even. also they apparently have a silencer. how does the town get information like this? and fwiw nobody's counterclaimed the edit. okay, I have a plan, but I'm gonna be honest here; it necessitates everyone's cooperation and that everyone accept that if either kirsche or myself is scum then town is fucked. of course, for any plan involving kirsche's role you're all going to have to trust me for the time being anyway. to reiterate, thanks to kirsche's results and shinori's dayvig, we have five suspects for three scum - myself excluded, four suspects. pick one to lynch. this will sound weird, but try to hit town. myself and the people who were on my wagon yesterday will lynch that player. the other three suspects will split up; two of them voting the same player, the last one voting alone. the loner should be the person we most want to know the alignment of. prims imo. the important part comes after the flip. if we hit town, congratulations, we've found three scum, and I would invite them in advance to pile votes on me D3. I haven't figured out what kirsche should ask in this situation. maybe something that clears me just to be double safe in mylo... we can probably do much better than that though. some help for this part pls. if we lynch scum instead, kirsche should ask how many scum were on the two-man wagon. if the result comes back two, again, we've caught all three of them. the worst thing that could happen is that the answer is one, and the single player is caught out, leaving two suspects, one town, one scum. tl;dr I offer you at least two, possibly three confirmed scum. I want to think of a plan that will 100% nail all three of them without requiring so much commitment, but until I have a stroke of genius this is my play.

I claimed driver pregame lol

re: making demands: I was talking about the apparent scumminess of the action. I almost backed away, but not on what I'm actually doing, which seems to be different to what you think I'm doing. don't call me stupid, k? my tone has changed because I'm excited about getting to do something other than reread ISOs for hours, if you're wondering. still dunno why I seem ignorant or why that's a scumtell. actually, sure, why not. there's no real point in hiding my role anymore. I also claim the significant role PM edit that eli mentioned a while back. I'm sure I'll have half the game calling me retarded for admitting this, but fuck you guys in advance. see, two previous iterations of my role PM led me to believe that I blocked kills on top of the regular safeguard deal, so I targeted bard n1, presumably blocking the real doctor (and the silencer, I'm willing to bet). you're welcome town. I idled n0. I'm also almost certainly the only reason anyone will get to hear any more of kirsche's results, so don't lynch me pls.

well shit, that makes things harder. I don't know about making demands but I have no idea how it got into your head that I don't understand the position I'm in or how that's scummy (a word I think I'm beginning to resent). what do you expect me to do as town that I'm not doing? I wasn't voting you because I don't want you lynched. you're the last player I want lynched right now. the way I see it, we're already so far behind that I'm willing to bet on you being town for an actual shot at winning. hearing about the real restrictions of your role was discouraging, but I think we can still make this work. just need to think of the right questions.

to be perfectly honest I don't have much to offer but townreads and I'm not interested in anything but kirsche at the moment anyway.

in fact everyone else start thinking about questions for kirsche to ask too. we gon need all the boys and girls in the club. (still not claiming yet sorry)