Lord_Brand

Fair enough. But I am curious to know what constitutes "too many", as to me third-party fighters are just as important as first-party, and certainly just as popular. Maybe not every third party series deserves a huge number of reps, but some (like Mega Man, Final Fantasy, and Sonic) are just too significant to limit to just one or two. Like, will we really be content with Cloud and Sephiroth as Final Fantasy's reps? Do they really represent the entirety of what Final Fantasy is about? Sure, they're popular characters, but are they really all the rep Final Fantasy deserves? Do the classic games really not matter enough to get their own reps? No Black Mage, Garland, or Chocobo & Moogle? No Cecil, Bartz, or Terra? Not every Final Fantasy fan is a fan of FFVII. Maybe fans of other FF games would like to have reps from their favorite games in as well? Sonic can rep his own series pretty well, but is he really the only Sonic character we ever want to see as a Smash fighter? What about Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Rouge, Blaze? I can hardly think of another video game series with a cast that has such a high average popularity among its characters, save for maybe Mega Man. Do none of them deserve to join Sonic on the roster? Speaking of Mega Man, in addition to the Blue Bomber himself there's also Roll, Proto Man, Bass, Guts Man, Pharaoh Man...heck, probably half the classic Robot Masters. And that's just in the Classic series; going outside that, we have X, Zero, Vile, Sigma, Axl, Mega Man Volnutt, Tron Bonne, MegaMan.EXE...just saying, we're sitting on a veritable gold mine of cool, popular characters, here. Pound for pound, Mega Man probably has more popular characters than any other video game series. And yes, I know some people would say "Well then just give these series their own smash-esque games!" There are a few problems with that: The whole point of Super Smash Bros. is its premise as a crossover, allowing for battles that couldn't happen elsewhere. Making "Sonic the Hedgehog Smash" means only playing Sonic characters, ever. Why do that when SSB gives us an opportunity to pit Sonic and his friends against the likes of Mario and Mega Man? No imitation SSB game has ever done well enough to come anywhere close to Smash itself. Remember DreamMix TV World Fighters? Scored well critically, but where are its sequels? How about PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale? Had potential, but a number of bad decisions and unfortunate circumstances scuttled it and likely killed all chances of seeing a sequel or even a successor. Does anyone else here even know Digimon: Rumble Arena or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash-Up exists? Related to the previous problem, it may not even be legally possible for another game to play exactly like Smash unless it belongs to Nintendo. See PSASBR; it came real dang close, but it feels like they had to alter the mechanics and gameplay focus or risk getting sued by Nintendo. So, "Super Smash Bros. but focused on series-X" may not even be possible. That's why I'm such an advocate of more third-party fighters in Smash - because Smash is the only place where so many fighters from so many series have even a remotely realistic chance of gathering officially, and with gameplay that's both simple and easy to learn as well as deep and satisfying to master. Nothing else comes close, not even remotely. SSB has basically no competition, PSASBR's failure made that painfully clear. Whether or not that's how things should be, that's how things are. So, if you're still determined that Smash should have only a bare minimum of third-party fighters, I will leave you to your opinion, but I hope you and everyone else here understands where I'm coming from on the whole matter. For me, Super Smash Bros. is the one opportunity I have to see my favorite first- and third-party series come together in a big, fun, awesome way. And I imagine that's how it is for a lot of other fans, too.

I figure Eggman would be accompanied by Eggman-related songs. Other songs could be saved for Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Rouge, Omega, Blaze, etc. I got a feeling SSB6 is gonna bring a lot more of Sonic's friends to the roster, since many of them have ample material to work with thanks to Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Battle. Question I got is: What kinds of Mii Costumes might we see alongside Eggman? Perhaps a Phantasy Star outfit for Swordfighter, or a Billy Hatcher outfit for Brawler, to rep some other SEGA games? Ooh, an Eggrobo outfit for Gunner would be ace! Fang the Sniper would be cool, too. And of course, they could include costumes for Shadow and Rouge as a nod to the Dark Story in SA2, as long as they don't look awful like the Tails and Knuckles costumes (seriously, headmasks would have been far, far more preferable). Once Crash joins, I think Cortex will be high on the list as well. As a matter of fact, if Crash were to join during FP2, then Cortex could happen as early as FP3. Though I'd want the second Activision slot to go to Spyro if anyone.

Yeah, Eggman is high up on the list of ideal villains to join the roster. Considering he's been around as long as Sonic himself, he really should be next in line. He's got a lot of good music options too.

I could see that. I could also see the Gyms having obstacles that can be cleared with super-effective types, either granting access to bonus items or allowing you to bypass Trainers and take shortcuts to the Gym Leader. There is one obvious interaction that wouldn't make much sense with the current type chart though: Ice freezing Water. Water-types are resistant to Ice even though many other games present Ice as effective against Water, when they aren't the same element. However, the idea that Ice could freeze Water would imply Ice is super effective against Water, which isn't currently the case in Pokemon. I wouldn't complain if they changed that of course, they did alter Bug and Poison's dynamic from one of mutual super effectiveness in Gen 1 to one-sided resistance in Gen 2, after all. For that matter, I don't get why Poison isn't super effective against Water, since aquatic creatures are just as susceptible to pollution as plants.

I have suggested those things before too, as part of my "Custom Fighter System". I just figured this would be a good stepping stone in that direction. I thought it'd be neat if "generic" fighters got customization first, to help them stand out from the already cool Mario, Link, etc. But yeah, if they wanna go nuts with fighter customization in SSB6, I'm game.

Cue deviantArt.

The main issue is that Pokemon is heavily merchandise-driven - moreso than any other Nintendo IP. They have multiple animated series and a TCG on top of the usual swag. So, the developers don't get a lot of time to develop their games compared to, say, Zelda or even Mario. The upside to that is Nintendo's other IPs have less pressure on them since Pokemon is already such a moneymaker, so we're able to get passion projects like SMO and BotW. I've got a suggestion for a new HM-esque mechanic: Type obstacles. Basically, instead of knowing the right move, you just need a Pokemon of the right type. Want to dig in the ground? Use a Ground-Type. Want to put out a fire or swim across water? You need a Water-Type. Want to melt ice? Get that Fire-type warmed up. Want to push a boulder or smash a rock? Call upon the might of your Fighting-Type. Basically, it comes down to extending the various type dynamics to the world outside of combat. Obstacles, hazards, terrain, and weather can all have type associations just as Pokemon and moves do. If you know how one type affects another, you'll have a pretty good idea of how to pass a given obstacle or how to navigate certain environments.

No worries. Whether it's 1 third party fighter or 100, you're welcome to share.

If you don't want to pick that many for your list, that's fine. But I'll include as many as I feel like in my list, since that's the point of the topic. This topic is supposed to be one place where we can go overboard if we want.

Neat ideas! They would make sense as costume options for Pokemon. I especially like the Pokeball idea, very out-of-the-box.

Right...so, do you have anything to contribute to the topic itself?

Thus my suggestion that there be a Mii Spearfighter for long polearms like Aerith's staff. Or a Staff weapon category for a more customizable Mii Fighter in SSB6. In the event Chrono Cross comes to Switch - perhaps as part of a Chrono Collection? - what if Serge got to join Smash along with Crono? The Element Grid would be highly compatible with Smash, as Serge's melee attacks could be grouped into Weak, Strong, and Fierce categories, which build up his Element level and allow him to cast more powerful spells. Dash & Slash, Luminaire, and Flying Arrow could be specials accessible either within the Grid itself or mapped to his S, D, and U Specials. The Elements and Techs on his grid are single use and become grayed out when he uses them, preventing him from using them again until he gets KO'd or uses his Final Smash, Chrono Cross. However, he can still use his Techs as Specials, they're just weaker than the Grid versions to balance the fact they're reusable.

Technically, Bowser isn't a Koopaling himself, they were just grouped with him since they serve similar roles and it was a convenient way to fill in seven costume slots. And they each have their own name, so only one of them is actually Bowser Jr. Piranha Plant is generic, not any one specific character, and so could in theory be good for customization as well. Link in SSBU is pretty clearly Link from BotW (I wish they had made Champion Link an Echo rather than replacing the OoT/TP Links, but then I'm the kind of fan who would have 7-8 different Links in Smash, taken from different games and featuring different movesets). I suggested customization for generic fighters as a way to help them stand out from defined characters, and I acknowledged that some defined characters like Mario and Link would be ideal for customization as well. However, they are unlikely to add customization for current fighters in SSBU other than Mii Fighters. But if they were to add new generic fighters like Piranha Plant, they could make them customizable like the Mii Fighters, and that in turn could serve as a stepping stone towards SSB6 making all fighters customizable, assuming they want to go that route.

Pokemon Tennis - Trainers and their Pokemon play tennis and can use special moves.

But which playable Boo? You have some notable Boos like King Boo and Lady Bow, and then you have the nameless generic Boos that appear in Ghost Castles, spinoffs, and such. That's what I mean by "generic"; it's not any one specific Boo but rather a Boo template that you can use to craft a Boo of your very own. And their moveset options can expand beyond what the games offer! After all, the games themselves often add new abilities over time. That said, some defined fighters like Mario and Link would be prime for customizaton, too.

I've suggested a Mii Spellcaster before, but I'd also suggest a Mii Spearfighter for long polearms, including staves. That would provide an easy template for characters like Kain, Aerith, Krystal, Caeda, etc. The Spearfighter's moveset would be a mix of thrusts, strikes, and projectile attacks. And honestly, we could go even farther than that. I like to apply a rule of 8, based on the original number of default fighters in SSB64. So, I could propose up to five additional Mii Fighters, each meant to capture different weapon styles and archetypes. Mii Bruiser - A heavier counterpart to the Brawler, who uses moves like rock throwing, wrestling, and tackles. This is the Fighter of choice for Donkey Kong, Mr. Sandman, Darmani, Goron Link, and Zangief. Mii Smasher - Two-handed weapon users like Cloud, Black Knight, Magnus, Darknut, Iron Knuckle, Ganondorf, Darunia, Daruk, and Edelgard. Basically to Swordfighter what Bruiser is to Brawler. Mii Spearfighter - Long polearm users like Kain, Aerith, Cid, Freya, Krystal, Azura, Mipha, and Dimitri. Mii Spellcaster - Mages who use a rod or wand, suitable for Wizzrobe, Black Mage, White Mage, Arle Nadja, Ashley, Mage, Cleric, Dark Mage, etc. Mii Ranger - Quick, agile, and uses light weaponry such as dual daggers, a bow, a boomerang, and a whip, making this good for fighters like the Belmonts, Shadow Man, Edge, Zidane, and Claude. Of course, if we really want maximum customization flexibility, we could just lump them all into a single highly-customizable Mii Fighter category with different weapon options. And then you can also include a bunch of different specials, many of which are generic variants of existing specials, and some of which are variants that aren't used by other fighters. N Specials S Specials U Specials D Specials

I'm all for making all fighters customizable, too! I just think this would be a good push in that direction.

Oh, right. Seph was December, not November. Doy! Given what a fanboy magnet Shantae is, she would be an appropriate reveal in February. She's even wearing the right color! And if she released in March, it'd be just in time for my birthday, too...

It's been a few months since Sephiroth. We should be about due for another fighter reveal soon, yeah?

I would watch BrawlFan1's videos, he just might change your mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmUjWMwR8QI Goomba has an easy choice for Up Special: Paragoomba. Goomba sprouts wings and gains multiple midair jumps for a time as a sort of power-up. Kuribo's Shoe could also factor in somewhere, like as a Side Special where the Goomba hops forward and damages opponents. Goombas have been known to use power-ups like Mario, such as the Super Leaf and Cat Bell. From the Paper Mario games, they can draw the Headbonk attack, spiked hats, and the ability to charge up fearsomely strong attacks (Hyper Goombas). Their Final Smash could be Giant Goomba, in which the Goomba grows to a giant size and leaps forward, looking to stomp opponents as payback for years of being stomped on themselves. As for Boos, they have demonstrated the ability to vanish and reappear, which could be used for an attack like Greninja's Shadow Sneak or Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape. Their tendency to hide their faces when looked at could be implemented into a counterattack. They have performed aerial maneuvers similar to Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop before. They have been known to summon buddies, and according to E. Gadd, their mysterious powers increase when they gather together in large groups, suggesting they could introduce a sort of swarming mechanic where you can summon multiple Boo Buddies that will make your Boo's attacks stronger. Their Final Smash could be Big Boo, in which multiple Boos combine into a Big Boo that charges forward, mouth agape. And the thing with designing Smash fighters is, you don't just look at what they have done but also what they could do. Sometimes, you borrow abilities another character has used (see: Zelda) or even come up with original moves altogether (see: Captain Falcon). Goomba could use its feet to kick objects such as Koopa Shells or soccer balls. Boo could shoot a ghostly blue or purple fireball with an aura or darkness effect that homes in on targets, perhaps inspired by the spirit orbs in the Luigi's Mansion series. If you have Boo Buddies, they might even be able to shoot multiple fireballs at once.

I like that Volcano theme. Very DKC-esque.

I'm surprised to learn Flamethrower wasn't a TM until Gen III even though its counterparts were TMs from the get-go. Nowadays they're the most popular TMs out there. My memory must have mistakenly attributed TM status to Flamethrower pre-Gen III.

I like the costume suggestions for the Mages, but the Red Mage class is exclusive to the Viera in Tactics Advance and A2, so they'd either have to create a unique design for Smash or use a Viera for the Tactics costume. But I do like the idea of representing FF games with job systems beyond III and V! The Explorers costumes look pretty cool, and Explorers was released for 3DS, so there's a degree of Nintendo exclusivity there. Would definitely be interested in seeing those costumes in Smash!

I saw a pic of a Boo dressed as Bayonetta and it gave me an idea: What if there were other "generic" fighters like the Mii Fighters whose moveset and appearance can be customized? Say, a Goomba Fighter or Boo Fighter who can wear different hats, wigs, or other accessories and whose specials can be customized? This would be similar to the Custom Fighter System idea I've pitched in the past, but more focused on blank slate characters who normally appear as bulk enemies or other NPCs, whose "genericness" lends itself well to customization. In addition to costume pieces from their home series, many of these Custom Fighters' costume pieces are borrowed from other series; you can dress your Goomba up like Link or a Black Mage or give your Goron a Guts Man helmet and armor, for example. Here are some templates I think would work well: Incidentally, Pikachu would be a good fit for this category as well, what with its numerous costumes and the ability to customize Pokemon movesets in the Pokemon series itself. Imagine giving Pikachu Surf and Fly as alternate specials in reference to the Pokemon Yellow days of Surfing and Flying Pikachu! Yeah, they definitely need to make Pikachu a Custom Fighter in SSB6.

HMs were a terrible idea. While the concept of your Pokemon interacting with the world around you sounds neat on paper, in practice it just forces you to pick particular parties which conflicts with the open team building nature of Pokemon. The fact that they had certain non-HM moves like Teleport and Dig work outside of battle proves HMs were unnecessary. They should have just made all TMs reusable and not bothered with the "can't forget this move" restriction. HMs were the single dumbest idea the series ever had.