Alastor15243

Aside from the fact that you need a rally bot with at least rally speed or you're just plain not going to be doubling anything with half of your units towards the end of the game, having a rally bot with replicate drastically increases formation flexibility and doesn't require you to make your unit placement revolve around just one unit. You can have your units be more spread out, and it also allows you to rally up your army in response to an unfavorable enemy formation you weren't prepared for and thus didn't group your units all neat and tidy for. Also it gives you two children with replicate, one of whom shows up just in time to learn shurikenbreaker to help you take out enemy maids and ninjas just when they start coming with inevitable end and thereby becoming your worst nightmare. I won't deny it takes dedication and preparation to pull off in a timely fashion, but now that I've confirmed for myself that it's doable before starting chapter 23 even on lunatic, I'd definitely say it's worth it.

Yeah, flagrant abuse of Nohrian Trust is probably the ideal build for Corrin and their partner, but actually getting that done in game is a massive pain. Also, I don't see the point of that Shurikenfaire since Jakob's never going to be up front to use it. Personally I would go Aegis, Pavise, Luna, Astra and Aether for Jakob. Lethality's not actually all that good. It's useless against certain enemies, and Astra and Aether have basically the same end result while also cranking up your guard stance gauge way more than Lethality would.

Right, let's see... For Xander, I haven't gone wrong yet with marrying Selena for the speed and resistance she offers in Falcon Knight, and then going Bow Knight from levels 11 to 15 to get shurikenbreaker and strong riposte, and then finishing off with the skillset of elbow room, strong riposte, shurikenbreaker, defender and either shelter or aegis. I tend to have Laslow marry Azura and befriend Keaton so he can get Falcon Knight and Berserker so he can promote to Bow Knight, switch to Falcon Knight at level 5, switch to Berserker at level 8, and then Mechanist at level 11 so he can finish off with locktouch, rally skill, rally strength, rally speed, and replicate to become an amazing utility rally bot. It's easy on hard, and tricky but totally doable by chapter 23 if you know what you're doing on lunatic conquest, and trust me, the payoff is insane, especially once you get replicate. Your assaults will become so much more powerful, and in Conquest that's insanely important. As for the avatar, the only other character I do significant classhopping with, I'll have to get back to you on that, because my main strategy seems to have hit a bit of a snag on Conquest Lunatic without bond units.

One of the things I tend to resent about the bonus DLC classes and skills that aren't available in the main game is that a lot of them are really fun to use, but I can never find a way to use them in stricter runs, the kinds of runs that ban DLC and freebies, without it feeling like I'm cheating at those challenges I've set for myself. Because the way they're set up, they're either free things that just automatically make the game easier with no effort, or they're obtained by doing something that's not quite hard enough to justify the reward. One idea I had at one point was that maybe if I could get a generally agreed upon fair set of prices for DLC items, as well as a point in the game past which they're fair game (say a certain shop level, or just that a unit can't use them until after they've promoted or hit level 21), I could use these things in my challenge runs guilt-free, getting the added fun of wider class variety without feeling I've undermined the difficulty of the game. Say, for example, it was determined that a dread scroll was worth 5,000 gold. I would buy 10,000 gold worth of bronze swords and then sell them back for 5,000, leaving me with 5,000 less, and now I can take one of the dread scrolls you get for free and give it to one of my promoted units. Under that ruleset, how much would you price each of the special class changing items at before you'd be willing to say using them is fair basically under all but the absolute strictest challenge runs?

To clarify, I'm not talking about actually writing a script, more of an essay of sorts of what direction I would take the stories in, how I would re-allocate assets, what I would change about characterization and gameplay, etc. This isn't something that's going to be a multi-month project or anything, just a world building exercise to clear my head. And to answer your question, I'd be using something more in line with canon Corrin except not a braindead coward. Though I think I personally would have called Corrin Dakota.

Hey guys, so sorry it's been so late, but I think focusing on this for so long has given me a little bit of burnout. I'm thinking I might tackle a little bit of a writing exercise to try and clear my head where I basically outline how I personally would have directed this game if I were actually making the real game from the ground up and not writing around a set of battles the game must conform to. Would anybody be interested in reading that?

I realize this isn't supposed to be a fates-bashing thread, but my opinion on the matter cannot be conveyed without doing it to a degree. I think the story of Conquest could believably be rewritten to have Corrin as an anti-villain if the consequences of his actions were treated with any seriousness rather than whitewashed because he's the protagonist and they didn't want their excuse plot to make Corrin fight Hoshido while still being a good guy to result in too sad of an ending. Seriously, I'm shocked at how forgiving Hinoka is of what he does once she finds out why he did it. Two of her brothers are dead, her lands are pillaged, her country's entire army is now dead... and the only reason this is the case is because Corrin decided that he valued his Nohrian family over any of that. Hinoka knows that's why he did it at the end of the game. In any properly written story, that ending scene would have gone way differently, probably with Hinoka (and possibly even Sakura) telling Corrin to never set foot in Hoshido ever again. But instead she forgives him, no, worse still, acts as if there's nothing to forgive. I cannot conceive of a human being without serious mental issues who would behave like that. So no, as it stands, he's not an anti-villain, but a really badly written tragic hero.

One idea I had that might be able to help out with the potentially bloated cast would be to let you take NPCs with you into battle to fight alongside you with simplified movesets, and these could be less major characters that otherwise wouldn't make the cut. It would also make the game feel more fire emblem-y if you're commanding a small army and not just leading one unit.

I agree with the sentiment that focusing on fewer universes would allow better focus storywise, but to be perfectly honest, I haven't just curbed my enthusiasm for the story after Fates, I've curbstomped it. This is going to be pandering ridiculous fun, and I'm just concerned it won't be the right kind of pandering ridiculous fun. Especially since the characters I'm excited about being able to play as in Fates are... rather limited.

Well we already know they're going to have to make it work for Xander unless they get him off his horse... which is unlikely, since that's really his signature look. So there'll be precedent in this game at least.

I'm actually rather disheartened. I went into this after having it spoiled for me by a friend thinking "please don't be like TMS please don't be like TMS please don't be like TMS. Please acknowledge that games 2-10 actually exist." Teaser comes on. Chrom's Falchion. FE13. Corrin's Yato. FE14. Ryoma's Raijinto. FE14. Xander's Siegfried. FE14. Marth's Falchion. FE1. ...And now I have this seed of fear in my heart that they might do the one thing that could possibly make this game suck, and not have serieswide representation.

Say, is there anything else besides singing abuse that makes shelter such a valuable skill, or is that all it takes to make it considered so valuable on this tier list?

I'm about to tackle this paralogue on Lunatic, I just beat chapter 12 and got Arthur and Mozu to S support and now I'm about to pick Percy up. But I notice the enemy AI behavior is different in this map on Lunatic, and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to best make use of the dragon veins and get some good gold from this. What are your strategies here?

Alright, I'm back. If anyone's wondering why my castle changed, I managed to update it while visiting a house with wi-fi. Again, the part's almost entirely complete, it's just the final part of it is something I'm getting writer's block on, as it determines the route Revelation takes and I need to be sure I'm not writing myself into any corners (this is definitely the trickiest route to write for since I'm going to be at almost none of the maps for the same reason I'm at them in canon). I was kinda hoping this wouldn't take me longer than a year in total, but it looks like that's not going to happen, but I will finish it.

Sorry, my mistake, you were comparing Beruka and Arthur and you mentioned Silas followed by a "he", I misread. But Arthur's defense growth is only 5% better, so it's not an issue of "bulk" so much as "effective damage", and that's ignoring the fact that Arthur needs extra care to avoid being critted to death when using him on enemy phase. Also... 1, I think you have that backwards, Silas is the one who benefits from Demoiselle, and 2, even if that were true, you have both between Elise and Jakob.

What are you talking about, Guedes? Silas and Beruka's defense growths are identical, and her base is quite high as well. How does Silas have better defense than her to any degree worth saying that Beruka's is bad?

Luck isn't even what ruins Arthur for me no matter how badly I've tried to use him. There are workarounds if you really want to make him usable, including having him be an attack stance fighter who works with somebody who provides critical evade (like Mozu, who as a bonus is an archer and thus will wind up next to him easily in a lot of assaults), or reclassing him into a bow user (again, preferably Mozu), or just not letting him fight anyone who can take a third or more of his health away in one hit. No, Arthur's real problem is his crappy speed base and mediocre growth meaning that he's generally just not going to be able to double unless you jump through hoops by getting a rally bot, giving him speedwings (in a game where Xander exists) or waste a pairup partner on somebody who's never going to be active on the enemy phase.

Ahhh. No visiting other my castles? That explains why bronzelocking is considered such a damning issue for the purposes of this tier list, because even a little other-castle visiting allows forged bronze weapons to turn much of the game into a joke. In fact forged bronze weapons are arguably the best weapons in the game for anybody not in a crit or procstacking build, since they're the most accurate and just as powerful as any level of iron weapon you could buy for the same amount of gold. But then even without other castle visiting it's feasible to build up enough gems to keep them from being the limiting factor on what you can forge. Hey, do you think it might be a good idea for there to be a separate tier list for leads and pairup bots, because some units are definitely better pairup bots than others (require less investment, have better classes, or already start out in the best classes), and it seems most of the best pairup bots (who are therefore very much worth a deployment slot) are consistently low on this tier list because they're not good for much else? Either that or, since what makes a good pairup bot depends highly on who they're supposed to be paired with, maybe any arguments about what pair-up bonuses they provide should be ignored entirely as not a part of this particular discussion?

Well that's not really practical for me since Laslow's already so busy supporting with both Azura and Keaton, on top of training to get to level 15, so he can't afford to be in Xander's pocket for long enough to get A+. But again that's more of a very nice side-benefit, the main bonus is giving Xander some much-needed res and speed.

Yeah, she doesn't seem to have a counterpart, does she? And certainly not a flying one who could actually spawn in the location Reina does.

Laslow and Azura for the rally bot utility and not forcing the perpetually busy Azura onto somebody who's actually going to fight. And having two kids with replicate and deadly player phase utility is a huge plus too. Leo and Felicia, mostly because of the pair up bonuses and also because demoiselle is a skill that Forrest must always have forever. Arthur and Mozu mostly for non-canon personal reasons making it (long story) like Superman marrying a female Batman. Also Percy becomes a god. Xander and Selena. Easily Xander's best wife. Xander doesn't need strength, he can already one-round anything that doesn't have wary fighter or dragon skin. He needs speed and res, because what's the point of that sword if he can't counter mages on enemy phase? And in Falcon Knight Selena gives just as much speed as Charlotte in Berserker and a much-appreciated boost in res. Plus she lets him reclass to bow knight and thus lets him get strong riposte if his attack somehow needs a further buff, but more importantly shurikenbreaker, a skill he can make amazing use of from chapter 25 to the endgame.

Thanks! So would they a 10/1 stay viable until they cap out, or would the 5 level experience penalty relative to their stats leave them suffering before they could get any level 15 skills? Would even level 5 promoted skills be pushing it?

How does internal level work with early promotion? Does it make you gain exp fast for your level like Camilla and Leo, or are you suddenly leveling like somebody who took all of the levels to 20 normally? I'm trying to gauge whether an early promotion for a throwaway character would be worth it to get some good skills on their superior kid.

Turns out the place I'm staying at on my Christmas vacation has no wifi, sorry, I'll get you the part as soon as I can. I've been using my phone to post here.

Well THAT was easy. I stomped the endgame in 5 turns. Having everyone at 8-9 move made this surprisingly easy, and with Xander having Shurikenbreaker the normally annoying task of clearing the path forward was much easier. I did have to use rescue instead of dancing to safely silence the hexing rod great master though, but once I did that the maid was down instantly, and then the next turn the great master, and the turn after that, down went Takumi to a combination of Dakota and Xander. My final thoughts: Funds: Once again I had no trouble with money. I had a minimum budget limit of half the money I had gained in total at any given point, and by the end of the game I had enough to buy four eternal seals, one each for Dakota, Leo, Xander and Camilla, as well as a couple brave weapons and full tonics for the party for endgame. Experience: basically everyone got to level 20 and in some cases 25. Due to my pair-ups, paralogues were plentiful. I even broke my previous record for getting Laslow to level 15 mechanist, getting Replicate before chapter 22. Even then I had two paralogues basically to spare, I hardly needed them and just did them for the hell of it and to give Leo a few of his eternal seal levels. Efficiency: this I could have done better on, though it's only really my style to be efficient when my patience wears thin. Mozu's paralogue took well over 50 turns, as I used it to feed nearly the whole map to archer Mozu using the southeast bridge as a bottleneck. It meant Mozu was in fighting shape immediately, but then she didn't work out the best in the long run. Difficulties: This party was slower on average than most of my runs. The biggest offender was my Avatar, who due to a combination of going mag boon over speed and dark knight over Nohr noble was no longer the ninja-doubling speed demon I'm used to her being. On the other hand, actually being able to rely on her magic stat for magic damage rather than my usual insane arsenal of procs meant she was an enemy phase sweeper far sooner than normal for me. Also, as I said, Mozu, Arthur and Niles turned out to be disappointments to varying degrees (though thankfully Mozu and Arthur at least made an amazing son). Pleasant surprises: this is the first time I've made real serious use of Percy, Soleil, Ignatius and Camilla, and they were all great. Turns out Camilla's major issue was just that I never gave her a pair up partner, and after taking all of my spirit dust since nobody else needed it, her Magic was more than acceptable as well. I took her through dark knight for the skills and she never slowed down. Ignatius needed some help and never made any significant contributions owing to having no fast 1-2 range or any crucial niche,, but anyone who can cap speed in great knight while still having stellar defense and strength gets a thumbs up in my book. And then there's Percy. Holy cow Percy was a monster. Thanks to aptitude, he capped everything but HP, mag and res. Even without a pair up partner he was one of my best units, and when I gave him a brave axe he became almost as good at killing Ninjas and maids as Soleil. And holy cow Soleil. While I still maintain that her personality is terrible, it seems i was wrong to not want to see more of her gameplay wise. She was so amazingly useful for the final seven chapters of the game, easily my fastest unit and a highly reliable maidstomper. She was awesome. Things I'd do different: while Arthur and Mozu were worth it for Percy, I think this is the death of my efforts to use Arthur as a serious combat unit. I can handle his luck problem, his speed always gets him in the end, and especially for this run that was unacceptable. Poor Arthur, I want so badly to like him. It's just that he's competing for speed wing priority with XANDER. Anyway, I had fun with this. I'm thinking I might try it again on lunatic once I beat that normally.