Eurykins

RIP Kirsche. : [ Startin' from Page 7: - Baldrick's opening post feels kinda weak to me, and picking up on the quick scanning of the pages since D2 started, the guilty claim on this slot by SB is duly noted. - KG's wall post of thoughts/read doesn't sound too bad, but there are a few things that I would consider: 1. Being the first person to point out someone as being scummy doesn't necessarily negate them as being scum/the person's scumbuddy IMO. I've done that plenty of times personally as scum, especially if what's being done is actually pretty scummy (like Blitz's gameplay/post D1), and I don't believe that being the first one to strictly vote someone/make points against them means you're automatically town for it. > You even note: "If not Zero, someone would have caught on to Blitz because as others have said....," meaning that, once again, anyone could have easily started the Blitz case/wagon and therefore Zero being the person to first do so really doesn't say much at all. (He was pretty blatant with his bad post/gameplay, to where almost anyone could pick up on it?) It's not something that was incredibly difficult to see/find, so there's nothing truly special about the first person to point out the obvious IMO. 2. While I do not have any personal issue with Mitskuki/Koneko slot myself, once again, I question the logic of "Second to vote on the Blitz wagon, etc. etc" in terms of thus reading their slot as town. Blitz did horrible D1, and so what does being the first/second vote on his wagon really do/mean? (IMO, it'd be more suspect to try and defend the slot, as opposed to being okay with it, given that he did nothing to defend himself or to actually play the game). 3. By the time that I voted... was when I had finished my ISO/actually looking into people? o.O I hadn't looked into Blitz at all in any of my prior posts before the in-depth wall (which was even noted early on in that same post wrt people voting Blitz for his vote/post), so I'm not quite sure how the timing of my vote on Blitz says/does anything? - Wrt http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57522&page=17#entry4026551'>LG's post: 1. Kirsche was a relatively safe kill because no one really suspected him (as far as I recall?) and generally a pretty strong player as well. Not much to be confused about really. 2. This post in itself feels meh at best to me because of the manner of "shamelessly sheeping" the Corinth vote. Aside from me/LG's vote, what are your other thoughts on the player base come D2? - BBM's wall felt kinda scattered, and points felt minorly disjointed to me. - @Refa: IDR what wagons you were specifically on, but what makes you so clear-cut town as a result of them? (AKA. Mind refilling me in on your voting pattern? Can't be bothered to ISO surf atm, lol.) - Several things bugging me about this post: 1. As town, why would you claim this sort of info unnecessarily? There was ZERO reason for it, and it doesn't help us any in terms of catching scum. 2. Blitz (Mass RB + RBer) died D1. Unless they have a JoAT with some sort of RB (which I'm doubting), a hook is unlikely, and KG (claiming town hijacker) likewise did not redirect you (or so he claims). 3. "Kirsche was killed to get rid of the safeguard" This makes it sound as though the scum team knew that Kirsche/someone was a safeguard prior to killing him. There was no N0 actions, so how exactly do you believe scum team knew of his role to begin with? (How would they know whom to exactly target as the safeguard, is my question?) - @Eclipse: I'm workin' on it Clipsey lol. (As a whole, I didn't get a terrible vibe from Eclipse's wall post, but that was admittedly from a quick scan of the pages/posts so far. Will look into the specific points in a bit.) > Also, KG + BBM targetted Prims (with KG hijaker thing)- what exactly did BBM do? (I don't know if this was posted already and I just missed it or something) KG could be lying about being a town hijacker, but at least the effects of his role were proven by Prims/Eclipse. ---------- Pg. 18 - Not quite sure I'd agree with KG's logic in terms of "Who to hijack someone towards/to", since clearing out the easier/simpler scum reads would let us possibly deal with/scum hunt to find the others during the day phase. (So agreeing with Prim's logic here) - Crysta's wall really didn't say/stick much in my head, not sure if good or bad thing. (Didn't seem memorable to me, no offense to the player.) - Yay confirmed scum find- go SB! ----- Pg. 19 - The lack of conviction in 3rdCorinth's wall of reads on people kinda feels blah to me. Could possibly be due to the amount of pressure on the player slot by this point, but still doesn't feel like a great post in itself. - @Life: I had some thoughts that you were kinda piling on me too hard (to not be a sort of reaction test), but nice to know that I make a nice goat. Lol. Why is it that I always seemed to get grilled by you in games, whether it's OC or NOC though? ;_; (Though I do actually like his post thereafter, in terms of pooling information/yielding reactions and other thoughts.) - While I don't fully blame Corinth for mildly snapping under pressure, the reaction also seemed genuine to me (and less so like, frustrated/defensive scum reactions). The claimed NA also makes sense coming from town-side (compared to the claimed actions of KG), but on the other hand, it IS an easy claim because it is a safe/logical one to make as a protective role, town-side or not. ---- Pg. 20 Aaaaaaaaaand not much else IMO was posted here, so that's the end of that. Overall thoughts: - KG feels worse to me this day phase so far, as I don't feel like his NA logic was great. Also had some posts that I found questionable and overall didn't sit well with me. - Claimed info/guilty on Baldrick makes things clear as to what D2 lynch would be. K. - Still want to know what BBM was doing at Prim's place, if possible. - Still feel suspect on Corinth's slot, as I'm not sure the outburst/sub request was purely a townie reaction or not, and there was still other questionable actions/posts made the last day phase. - Will be re-looking into Eclipse's, Crysta's, and BBM's minor wall posts to see if anything else sticks out to me. - Would vote Baldrick atm, but I think we're already pushing close to the hammer, so I'll refrain from voting until then.

Ugh, sorry guys, just woke up. Will be looking through the thread in a moment.

It's okay- I know I was a bit riled up from earlier posts, so my apologies to you and others (yes, Life included, lol) for being mildly irate with my tone in the other post(s). IRL stuff has been pretty meh for me, and sorry that it may have affected my in-game responses a bit. ;/ ((And I suppose it's just a bit frustrating when I try to change up my gameplay and/or improve it, and suddenly I'm scumread for it because it goes against what I've had a habit of doing for a while in previous games, lol. This is why meta reading can suck sometimes. xP))

So, because I have X amount of content, you expect Y amount of scum reads, Refa...? (I'm not quite sure my brain is fully comprehending your comments/notions atm since it's kinda burnt out, but work with me here). Doesn't quite make sense to me. Also, why is having 3-4 scum reads (in this size game) terrible as well, when there are inactive player slots, and people who are still remaining null (for various reasons) to me in terms of reading them accurately/strongly at this point? Not sure if I'm just missing why you're finding me scummy for whatever reason, but it's not exactly ringing in much sense to me right now (may be my fault, idk). As for spammage: > RVS first post (so innately pretty useless/not an actual content post). > Didn't feel like this did a whole lot, given that Mitsuki was already getting prodded for pretty much the same sort of notions/concerns (so kinda just openly parroting people) + response to shyguy wasn't much else to really see as worthwhile either. > Likewise does nothing. > Once again, does nothing. > This is your first post in which you actually start to put down actual content/voting/etc. So in that sense, in terms of ED1, I found you to have mildly been spamming the thread. Was it as massive as other games in which you've spammed? No, definitely not. But was it enough for me to consider it as ED1 spammage? Yes. Also, I chose Blitz over Zero because Blitz's gameplay read straight up as being scummy, while I'm struggling to pinpoint whether the entirety of Zero's gameplay has been directly scummy or not (AKA. If I'm getting more stuck on "bad gameplay/disagreeable logic" vs. actual scum intent with his gameplay). With Zero's last post/vote (Which again, was extremely easy and blatant sheeping/vote sitting at this point), I'd say that's probably one of the first direct scummy thing I've seen from the slot itself.

Yes, me being tired and annoyed at people falsely accusing me of things (and therein attempting to call me scummy for it) does tend to illicit reactions. Not that it's anything good/special, but I suppose it "worked" in some manner. Still doesn't make it a good reaction test.

Really fucking tired, not feeling well, and likely the only post I'll be able to make tonight. Might be around for a few minutes if anymore questions arise, but that's about all you'll probably get out of me at this point. Okay, several fucking things about this post (mildly irrate that there's blatant misrepping of what I said vs. what you're saying that I said): 1. I never once said the phrase "him not liking NOC games makes him/his slot pointless". The fact is, you spent the good part of ED1 literally just bitching at the fact that it's an NOC game and not OC, insulting the rest of the player base, and quite frankly, acting like an asshole with most of your assertions while also assuming that you rise well above all the rest (the egos, man). That is the only reason why I stated that I heavily disliked even reading your ISO, and that I was not bothered/concerned in terms of trying to even figure out your slot (for myself, not as/for anyone else) currently. I did not say that your slot in general was irrelevant and should be viewed as useless or pointless or whatever the fuck you seemed to garner from my notions. 2.There was little to no scum hunting happening in your posts, and you were just sitting on my slot because "gut read" and nothing else. So again, there was nothing to even interest me in terms of your slot content-wise, and the usage of said tones above really made things unpleasant to read. So that was partially my general preference + the fact that I really wasn't missing out much in terms of scum/town reads from your posts at that point in time. 3. The only thing that's "rattled" or otherwise annoyed me is the fact is the way you're choosing to post in this game, like you have zero reason to fully participate in the NOC manner/general posting manner because of the fact that you only joined an NOC game because you're bored. I don't want to sit around and read shit posts that do nothing but bitch and moan and don't even care to actually do things like scum hunt or interact with people in a semi-respectful manner, and if I choose to ignore your slot as a result, then that is my choice, and does NOT imply that I am here telling everyone else that they should do the same (whether they do or not is their choice and their choice alone). Also, mildly "rattled"/annoyed that you're attempting to warp things as heavily as you are, in terms of trying to make me out to be scummy for it. Clarification (since it was apparently mentioned a few times): What I meant about Refa "spam posting early game" was the fact that he was basically shit posting for a good handful of his first posts after RVS. No meaningful content yet making multiple posts therein = basically spamming the thread. Refa, please. Are you serious? You do realize that in most of my latest games played (in terms of honoring certain requests/thoughts from other senior better players than myself), I've also done things as town to modify/shorten posts, narrow down scum reads (ergo my "scum reads" in most of my latest games have actually been more focused down as opposed to "half of the player list"), and other changes? Unless you really want me to just slap "scum reads" on most of my currently neutral reads that I find questionable, but I don't really see that as helping much. PS. This is yet another game you've attempted to hold this as part of my "OMG EURY'S NOT STICKING TO HER META" kind of bullshit when it really hasn't been that way for a good couple of games that I've done/played in. Once again, mildly irritating as it's pretty inaccurate at this point. Easy as fuck vote, really? Mkay. So taking 4-5 hours in actually thinking things through and posting them somehow = "empty post". I suppose it's time for me to just spam-post this game and not care about any sort of in-depth reads or cases. BTW, I don't know if I'll be on for phase end. I have tomorrow off, but have errands to run, people to see, etc. and I can't be bothered to remember when exactly phase end time is for me/in my time zone at the moment. My priorities haven't really changed much at all, though Zero seems like he's taking the ezpz way out and the blatant sheeping/vote-sitting is kinda bad/scummish IMO. Refa's gameplay/casing seems weak at best, and idk if this is just simple grasping or attempts to misrep as well, and Life's "reaction test" was poor at best.

Oops, Forgot to throw Izhuark on the list. RIP my fried brain. *Blitz > Zero >>> Corinth = Izhuark Somethin' like that. Anyways, tired Eury is tired. Time to sleep.

Mkay, gettin' down to business and sorting ISO's. To keep things gentler on the eyes without having to spam-post the hell out of this thread, I'll be sticking people in Spoiler tabs and shinanegans with a TL;DR at the end. I'll be going down the list according to OP's ISO list/order to keep things simpler/easier on myself and the readers. [spoiler=Lord Gaius] - First post here was alright, and the vote on Life was reasonable. - WRT this post: 1. Questions in the opening/first half of the post are okay/feel alright to me (seems to be genuine efforting). 2. Kinda uncertain about the Life vote swap on one hand (not sure what to think of him backpedaling off Life so soon, I guess is the best way to put it?), but I also understand partially due to the mannerisms Life is expressing throughout his posts. :/ 3. (By this point) I haven't really looked into Kirsche much yet, but the vote on Kirsche (and the notions, so long as they held reasonable merit) doesn't seem awful to me on initial scan through the thread. Overall thoughts on LG: As for what I see in the ISO, nothing screams out at me as "super scummy" or otherwise pinging me atm. There seemed to be a good amount of effort/interest in progressing the game, and I'd like to hear more from this slot wrt the rest of the player base in terms of reads. Leaning townish atm. [spoiler=King Gilgarmesh] - I don't necessarily have issues directly with the comments noted in his post here, but there's a weird, empty sort of feeling when I read this post. I can't quite pin down (or word) it, but something just feels a bit off to me. ((Best way I can put it is that it just feels like he isn't saying much else but echoing the people around him at the time that this was posted? Doesn't seem to express much personal interest/effort into the comments.)) - As far as I can tell, nothing horrific was really put into this post, but at the same time I've not yet even looked at Blitz's ISO, so take this comment with a grain of salt. Overall thoughts on KG: This slot remains as a null read for me- can't seem to get any solid vibes in either direction at the moment. [spoiler=zerosabers] - For one, I feel like zerosabers spammed more than necessary in ED1 (in general). - While I understand the initial curiosity towards Baldrick's joking around with the votes, I feel that this post went a bit far overboard with things with the mayor role specc'ing. I'm also getting more of an odd "puppy dog flailing around to try and catch attention from the rest of the player base" sort of vibes from these earlier posts rather than purely #scumhuntingefforting, which makes the posts seem/feel more spammier/padded as a result. - WRT this post: 1. "Unvoting didn't work so well for me last game so I was keeping my vote on who might be scummy then." Unvoting people in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, nor is it a hard town or scum tell to do so (unless you do so without merit or otherwise in a suspicious manner). Seems a bit too self-conscious here, IMO, in terms of wanting to appease the rest of the player base by being more static in your voting, as opposed to adjusting your vote(s) to where you feel/opt to put them yourself. 2. "While Shyguy does need to put more effort out his play is way too comfortable in his first game to be scum." I feel the need to note several things about this comment itself: A. If Shyguy first time rolled as TOWN, he is essentially alone in the sense that he must fend for himself, perform/post/hunt/etc. on his own, and otherwise exist knowing that he cannot fully trust anyone but himself (unless he got a Mason-esque role or anything that can clear/allow access to someone whom he KNOWS is a fully cleared fellow townie). Basically, it's more likely to be a role/alliance that riddles you with wariness and suspicion in terms of "Who is actually town next to me, and who is scum lying to me?" in this game. B. If Shyguy first time rolled as SCUM, he is essentially grouped together with likely experienced Mafia players who know how to play the game, who can give advice, and otherwise aid them both in-game/thread, as well as OC (via QT/Skype/wherever). Secondly, he would know who is obviously NOT Mafia with himself/his fellow scum buddies, and all in all, the only concern (in terms of who people are aligned with) are any potential ITP's floating around. Aside from not directly scum slipping, there isn't much to actually be paranoid/worried about in terms of gameplay, and it's also pretty easy to manipulate how people perceive you in terms of first time gameplay (the more you spam/post in hopes of seeming "useful/helpful", the more likely you will be passed off as "newbie #efforting" by the majority of the player base, in most cases). C. Considering the above thoughts/notions, in which case would someone actually be more comfortable in playing/experiencing for their first time? Standing alone to scum hunt amongst people who may or may not be your friends/allies, or being able to exist in a group and being comforted by the fact that you have people you can talk to for advice, tactics, etc.? 3. Once again, IDK what to make of the Blitz vote, since I haven't really read much of anything into that slot as of yet. Will get back to this later, if I remember. - I don't think I really got much of anything out of this post, but that's mostly due to me seeing little to not much reasoning behind the town reads Zero has, vs. null/other reads. PEDIT: OMG, link is not linking, fuck my life. Fuck formatting. >8[ "this": http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57522&page=8#entry4021504 Overall thoughts on Zerosaber: I'm not garnering a whole lot of townie vibes from this slot (quite the opposite, actually, since the spammy aspect + somewhat self-conscious gameplay and what feels like a handful of fluffed/padded posts kinda makes things feel far less likely to be townie #efforting), and I feel myself actually viewing this slot in a slightly scummy shade. [spoiler="The3rdCorinthian] - For one, I have absolutely no idea who this is. Just throwin' that out there. - The initial vote on Zero feels like an easy one. - The unvote/post with said unvote kinda feels like, "????" to me. I don't really follow much of anything that was posted, and it really didn't have anything worthwhile in terms of quality content. Overall thoughts on The3rdCorinthian: There's really not much to be seen from this slot, and what has been posted isn't impressive at all. Getting a small scum gut read on this slot, based on the tone/chaotic mannerism in their approach, and there seems to be a lack of focus/interest in terms of their points/assertions/votes/etc. that just doesn't feel great to me. Would prefer to see/hear more from this slot to garner a better grasp/read on this slot. [spoiler=SB] - One of the early voters of Mitsuki wagon. I'm not necessarily detecting a terrible vibe from the post itself, but noting it anyways because I can. - Already responded to most of this post. Overall thoughts on SB: IDK if it's just because it's still relatively early in the game, but I'm not feeling that SB's putting forth as much effort as he generally does in games atm. Mitsuki vote + vote on me is basically all he's really said/done at this point, and that's kinda worrying me a bit. It's not enough to warrant me scum-reading his slot, but he's rending himself as a null read for me because I do not find the justification to actually label him as a town read based on his content/posting. [spoiler=Prims] - I'm fine with this post. Overall thoughts on Prims: While I'm okay with his main post that he's made so far, I'm having similar issues to that of SB slot, in the sense that I'm not sensing much #efforting from Prim's slot. I will say that he's probably ringing in as "null leaning townish" for me, but I want to see/hear more from him to confirm my gut/vibes that I'm initially feeling from him atm. [spoiler=Baldrick] - RIP. - While I'm willing to admit that my comments/notions on the Mitsuki wagon may not have been super in-depth (was based mainly around implications of the people and the situation/means in which the wagon was executed), the vast majority of the players who had been on the Mitsuki wagon were basically piling on it for the exact same reason. Baa-baa, went the early sheeping. (Partially why I blanketed the statement of the people who dropped said easy votes, since they were all guilty of the same thing.) Overall thoughts on Baldrick: I'm not too bothered by his slot atm. Seems to have a good amount of meaningful interactions/content, and has been pretty pro-active with his scum hunting. Probably one of my stronger town reads atm. [spoiler=Crysta] - Since I already responded to this post, I'll be focusing on the latter one here: 1. Because no one specifically was worse than the others who were on the wagon. All who early vote dropped on Mitsuki slot did so for basically the same exact reason, so there was little differentiating in terms of who was worse as a result. (Also, as mentioned before, I wasn't full-blown "scum hunting" mode last night while posting, as I was tired and had work to prepare for the following morning today. So there were several factors [already have been mentioned] that contributed to me not fully elaborating/analyzing the Mitsuki wagon earlier.) 2. At the point that I posted, I really didn't have any reads to speak of, and my initial post on Mitsuki was in my first RVS post. Of course I'm not going to have any reads, so of course I'm not going to have "anything to follow through with". 3. If you find my refusal to move my vote onto Mitsuki reason to suspect, then okay, that is your decision. Nothing I say will change that, and that's completely fair for you to do. Overall thoughts on Crysta: While I don't mind her casing/pushing me, I do find it a bit perturbing that she's literally only posted/honed in on me at this point. Though she mentioned "Blitz" as a follow-up/secondary priority to myself, I see little else in terms of casing/thoughts on the rest of the player base. Null tell currently (as tunneling in itself isn't really a direct tell in either direction) for me, but I'd like to hear more from her and her thoughts on the other people outside of me/Blitz. [spoiler=Life] - Claiming openly in-thread is kinda stupid btw, unless it's late-game mass claiming. Lol at the gut read as well. - This post actually legit made me not really want to read much more of his posts, as they seem to mostly be aimed at insulting/degrading the rest of the player base in lieu of him clearly having superior intellect and thus should be the sole leader to solve all games/problems. Like, there is a fine line/difference between "being assertive and guiding people to victory", and "I'm going to be an asshole/dickish to others just because I can", and while I figure he's doing this more as a sarcastic/half entertainment based responses, it's rubbing me mildly the wrong way. (This does not imply/mean that I read him as scummy for it, but there are times where I personally do not care to read posts with such tone/condescending attitudes in them as though the rest of the player base outside of himself are complete idiots that can't think for themselves.) - Aside from "Gut feeling" voting me, he hasn't really said/done much else. Overall thoughts on Life: His gameplay certainly doesn't surprise me, but it's also not exactly pleasant to sort through in terms of post/ISO surfing. He also shows little interest in actually producing any meaningful content at this point, which is also bothering me. Whether it's due to the fact that he just abhors NOC games vs OC ones (in which case, even if there's no OC games going on, why are you bothering to join an NOC game if you're just going to complain about it sucking and/or otherwise attempting to run it like an OC game when you really can't?), or something else, I don't know. But I'm not really eyeing his slot with much interest/care for the time being. [spoiler=Supershyguy94] - Has a lot of posts ED1- kinda seems mildly spammy-esque, (as he himself admitted to later on). - This was a bit difficult for me to read, but it doesn't come across to me as faking the effort to make a decent post. Just hard on the eyes, lol. Overall thought on Supershyguy94: While ED1 was nothing impressive to see/read, I do sense genuine efforting in the latter posts. There also seems to be a fair amount of thoughts on the majority of the player base as well, which is more than could be said about a few other players in this game atm. Leaning townish on this slot. [spoiler=Koneko/Mitsuki Hydra Slot] ~ Looking at Koneko's Voting pattern/posts~ - RVS Vote on Prims, and then a serious vote on Blitz. ~ Looking at Mitsuki's Posts~ - Seems to be open to responses/bouncing comments/replies to the rest of the player base, along with connecting/aligning responses to clarify with Koneko's (and vice versa), which is good. - While I appreciate the thoughts/considerations, I find that this slot (At least from Mitsuki's posts) seem mostly focused on Blitz/Zerosaber, and I'm not seeing much else on most of the other players atm. Overall thoughts on Koneko/Mitsuki Hydra: As an overall vibe from their posts, I'm not sensing much of any scum-esque vibes from them. Leaning townie on this slot, but I would like to hear more from them wrt the other players in this game, regardless of which person intends to do the posting. [spoiler=Kirsche] - I already kinda responded to or otherwise put down some thoughts earlier wrt his only real post thus far this game (or I think so, at least?), so not much else to say about it. Overall thoughts on Kirsche: He hasn't said/done as much as I would've expected town!Kirsche to have done, and it's kinda hard to actually get any sort of half-decent read on his slot without much of anything to go off of. Null until further notice/posting. [spoiler="Blitz] - Like Kirsche, there's only been one actual post having been made so far... :/ Already responded to his points/questions in prior posts, so not going to repeat them. - However, unlike Kirsche, he actually made a vote on Life that I find pretty questionable (as do some others in this thread by this point in me typing this post), and I'm not quite sure what he was really hoping to do with it? Overall thoughts on Blitz: Questionable/pretty bad vote on Life + No content aside from the one post = the only logical vibe to acquire from this slot is a scum read (literally nothing to counteract/counterbalance into a null read for me on this slot). Would prefer to actually hear more from him though, to see if the scum read holds enough merit to fully stick, or if it's just due to literally having nothing else produced at this point. PEDIT: So the people ABOVE whom have voted Blitz (in which I commented in having not yet read Blitz's ISO to verify) => I'm OKAY with their votes, as Blitz's post/vote was indeed pretty poorly executed and otherwise voteworthy IMO. [spoiler=Izhuark] - Uh. There are posts here in the ISO, but yet, there really aren't any (in terms of meaningful content/scum hunting/etc.). Spammy posts are spammy, which is bothering me a bit, despite making the ISO surfing a lot easier on this slot. Overall thoughts on Izhuark: Newbie or not, there doesn't seem a whole lot of activity going on in this slot. No reads, no thoughts, nothing. There seems to be little to no interest in scum hunting or doing anything of the sort, and is more oozing of coasting easiness in terms of gameplay, which makes it plausible for this slot to have possibly rolled newbie scum trying to fly under the radar. Null leaning scummish until some activity levels pick up and actual content is produced. [spoiler=Refa] - Refa, stahp spam posting, pls and thx. - Makes a vote on me, responds, etc. etc. so not terrible, but seems to be vote sitting and otherwise not really producing much content/thoughts on the rest of the player base. Overall thoughts on Refa: Idk about this slot. Refa's not doing much but spam, but I know town!Roofa to have spammed the living daylights out of game threads because he can, just as scum!Refa does. I want to see more from his slot before any sort of hard read on his slot happens, because he's not reading terribly hard in either direction for me atm. OKAY, FINALLY DONE. MY GODS. Lol. TL;DR of my priorities atm: People of suspect/leaning scummy: The3rdCorinthian Zerosaber Blitz Rest are null or town reads currently- read through the Spoilers to find out if you really want to know where everyone stands atm. Probably would say: Blitz > Zero >>> Corinthian at this point, since the last one is moreso due to questionable content as opposed to directly bad/scummy content that the former two have IMO. ##Unvote ##Vote: Blitz Okay, with that, I'm taking a break of the rest of the night lol. Will be back tomorrow sometime in the afternoon after work. Eury out!

Quoting misc. posts (for reading other people's ISO's) will come in a later post- just covering Page 7 votes/notions towards me currently. Keeps stuff cleaner/easier to read IMO. > I noted that the wagon started up/had a lot of people piling on it early (ergo I was looking/considering what started the wagon, how it was pushed forth, etc.- how is this not analyzing a wagon? o.O?) > I disagreed with the people who easily chose to vote-drop and not say much else with their earlier former posts. The QUANTITY of votes on Mitsuki is one thing, and is not something I was directly having an issue with- it was how the rest of the votes (and for the shallow reasons therein) ended up on Mitsuki slot that I disagreed with. Already answered this in prior post(s), but to recap: 1. No real interest to vote on Mitsuki slot at the time/was in my RVS post. 2. I didn't see the NEED to say "X/Y/Z specifically are guilty of doing A/B/C on Mitsuki's wagon" in terms of mentioning the growing wagon, as pointing fingers early on doesn't really do much at all. That, and the other players should be able to piece/read for themselves who did what, so the persons in question = implied. 3. This vote in itself (plus the notions you pose to me) are nothing more than shameless sheeping of what others had posted before, which actually makes me feel as though this vote is coming pretty easily from your slot. Granted, there are a few others in this thread (from my PoV) that dropped easy votes on my slot, so this in itself doesn't hold much against you at this point in terms of how I view your slot atm. ------------ K. Well page 8 really doesn't have much more for me to directly respond to, so gonna take a short breather before I jump back into ISO surfin' for my next incoming post. Stay tuned!

Startin' from Page 6 'cause there's nothing much worth replying/noting on prior pages IMO. >> Also actually going to chop up the responses in lieu of certain comments wrt post length (looking at you Baldrick) having been made earlier. (Even though it's so inefficient this way, srsly...) Mkay. I was watching and seeing what panned out wrt Mitsuki slot, as nothing much else was happening at the time. It was also later in the evening as well, so I had little interest in starting/getting into any sort of real scum hunting as I was tired and had work this morning (so went to bed not too long after the game started), as I care little for the slimmest of notions/casing on people early on (I like more meat in my cases if possible). It was my RVS joke post/vote? (As noted at least twice in my first few posts wrt him killing my Poros/avatar.) I don't see anything wrong with doing so. 1. I had little interest in pointing direct fingers at people. It was clear and easy to tell/see who exactly was guilty of dropping Mitsuki/Kitsuki votes right out the gate and not doing anything else; there's no reason for me to outline/highlight specific names- if you REALLY feel the need for me to do so, I suppose I can go back and re-emphasize the players and their actions. 2. I don't see the issue with me not voting her at the time that I mentioned her (especially since it was stuck in my RVS vote post). Her slot wasn't scummy enough to warrant a vote, and I moreso felt that people jumping on her wagon ED1 was more suspect than the slot under pressure/suspicion. 1. Read above for the response(s) since it basically covers the answer there. 2. I never knew an RVS vote could seem so controversial (even when the blatant joke/reasoning behind it was posted several times, as stated above). There's 0 reason for the supposed "OMGUS" vote to have any sort of casing against me, since there's literally no reason for me to have gotten actually defensive/otherwise affected by his RVS vote on me, so I'm not really seeing the logic of people using that to attempt to read what I'm saying/doing? TL;DR: Pretty graspy at best and lacks a lot of solid backbone as a valid "point" against me. 3. Just because someone piques my interest does not mean I have to vote for them at that given point/time. I am not obligated to place/replace my vote until I see fit to do so, and given the fact that I really didn't scum read Mitsuki's slot much at all, I don't see why I "SHOULD HAVE" placed my vote on her slot. ----- My thoughts on the above: - Life is being life (so nothing new with the super hostile-esque posting), but don't care for "follow the leader" shit either. - Haven't read enough of the others (from at least page 6) to pull up any meaningful thoughts on anyone else who posted/I bothered responding to. ONTO PAGE 7!

Just got home from work, so gonna browse through the thread as I nom on some foods.

Is it just me, or do you seem to be almost asking me to wallpost here...? ;D Eh. As stated above, I'm not really scum reading this slot heavily atm, but on that same token, it's the only slot to have caught my attention specifically and warranted posting at this point. So by default, if I was to remove my RVS vote, then I suppose the one who'd be most deserving of it would be the Mitsuki slot? What makes you ask though? Does this imply that you're attempting to prompt me to further contribute to the growing Mitsuki/Kitsuki wagon with my own vote? >> For the record, I do see the growing Mitsuki wagon to be filled with people easily vote riding/coasting, so at this point, votes that are being cast/made purely at that slot (without much interest/notions towards anyone else at this point) seem pretty empty and lazy to me. Sure, Mitsuki may have said something pretty sketchy in terms of casing, but what good does it do if EVERYONE suddenly just stops and stares at the slot for the exact same reason? Doesn't exactly scream loads of #efforting, nor does it really say much else in terms of quality scum hunting happening (even if there are newer people amongst us).

For one, I was wanting to still enjoy my RVS post/vote, so thus I did so before my realtalk shizz. Secondly, as I stated before, regardless of Mitsuki's underlying intent with her comment (and despite the logic/casing behind her "scum read" basically having little to no merit), I felt it served mostly to just kick-start the game and get us out of RVS as quickly as possible. In addition, I'm expressing some doubt about that being an actual scumread on her slot, as I'm uncertain scum!Mitsuki/Kitsuki would opt to splash around this loudly this early in the game for zero reason. Was her post possibly bad gameplay/based around bad logic/casing to me? Yeah, I'd probably say so. Is it a hard tell on Mitsuki/Kitsuki slot in either direction at this point to me? Not really. So I didn't have much interest in actually voting her at the point in which I posted. (And I mean, Izhuark is obv!scum for wanting to kill le Poros so clearly my vote on him makes much more sense... >8[ )

B-But... don't kill the Poros! They're so cute. ;_; ##Vote: Izhuark for trying to assassinate the League of Poros! >8[ > Realtalk: Mitsuki's "scum read" post kinda rubs off weird to me. If it was a joke post, then whatever (no issues). If it was serious though, I don't exactly see any semblence of "bullying" or whatnot when it was literally a comment/joke about someone having numbers in their name (Unless you're insisting that the person being prodded with the joke is someone who is hyper sensitive about being told/isolated because of having numbers in their name, which I'm highly doubting?), so in that sense it seems to bear little to no merit/actual reason for said scum read as a whole. Assuming that it's just Mitsuki's way of trying to hardshove us out of RVS though regardless.

Welp, time to /in this game~! Can't resist Elie games- let alone RO themed ones! :D <3

Well for one, the fact that I was N1 kill was kinda... idk- confused and like, burnt me out a bit LOL. Even though I was technically probably the best role (by town-side standard) to be shot, I dunno. I kinda went wonky with my activity levels/posting, and then I got distracted by the wrong people doing wonky things. xD > That and the fact that some other slots (especially town ones) were super inactive at times were like... idk how to word it. Mildly annoying to me, since nothing was really going that well for townside as a whole, and the lack of efforting/interest that a lot of others were putting forth kinda put a damper on seriously scum hunting and/or otherwise taking the time to look into posts/people deeper. @_@;; (And most of the people [that I generally play Mafia with] know how I feel about people not putting forth much effort in games and how it tends to affect my thoughts on their slots as a whole, so there's that too. >.<" ) In the end though, I guess it just makes me a bad Mafia player, lol. Such is the life of the Queen of Wallposts~

Lol. My reads were so bad this game. AND BBM FLAVOR PERSON DIDN'T DIE 'TIL SUPER LATE SO I COULDN"T BE SUPER LAZY TOWN. ;A; Though I don't really think I did a whole lot that game, personally, lol. I kinda ignored Prims half the game 'cause he wasn't setting off scum vibes for me and tunneled on townies for other reasons. GG and wp scum team, though I find it a bit awkward that, half the time (as a stump) I was more actively posting than some of our townside living players... ._.;;

I'm a Zombie-Treestump. #1: Congrats to whomever actually vocalized the concept of how to counter J's mechanics in terms of NK's. HOWEVER, there is still other means of proving his role, if any other town-sided PR's exist/can verify come the next day phase. Either way, J's role isn't terribly difficult to decipher/prove either way, but I do not believe that saying "OH, but you can counter proving X's role by doing Y" is a great thing to out publicly (I'd say that it's almost as bad as needlessly claiming/stating role shizz without warrant.) #2. I personally don't feel as though Hannah's latest posts really do much to change the suspect on her slot. For several reasons: > A. She should've been notified via PM that her neighbor/access to the QT between her neighbor was removed/down ever since Eclipse has died. This has happened with neighbor roles, Masons, and/or other means of limited OC that I've encountered/have rolled as in the past, so I doubt there should be any reason for her not to know/realize that Eclipse was dead if she (Hannah) were a fellow townie. ((Also, with Eclipse having been confirmed town by her death/flip, I'm figuring Hannah's more likely to flip scum than town-side at this point.)) > B. Asking about "Who is BBM?" Makes it seem like she's either not putting much effort into re-reading while she can (which reads of poor gameplay, and the fact that she can look at the OP for referrence/ISO's also makes the "IDK WHO THIS PERSON IS" seem also off to me) or something else. Drops a weird vibe to me either way. > C. Since when has the Hannah wagon been "random"? She claims that her wagon comes out of the blue, when in reality her slot has been under a lot of suspect since D1. > D. Wrt this comment she made: "I don't know what you mean, scum could be Prims or someone else people are reading as townie, don't be so sure of town winning. Indy?" - What does this comment even do? She notes Prims or "Someone else people are reading as townie", which basically does nothing but attempt to smear/cast doubt upon the general townreads that are floating around currently? (While I may not personally agree with all of them myself, this is an easy attempt/way for her to put off suspicion from her wagon and onto the rest of the playerbase without much effort/use of solid cases, which is what I'm finding scummy here.) > E. She hasn't posted any sort of real priority/solid cases at this point. I'm not seeing any votes from her, she was keen on just self-hammering right out the gate, and otherwise still hasn't said "Who is scum and why?". The fact that she's not pushing forth scum-hunting efforts or otherwise attempting to do something for townside (Even if her wagon is inevitable) gives us nothing more, which feels more like scum!flailing about vs. town!flailing. Also, the means in terms of discrediting J's role claim and/or attempting to object to him testing/using his role also serves to undermine the general consensus/probably the strongest play option we have available to us this incoming night phase, so I don't care for that either. Tl;dr: Still okay with Lynching Hannah slot. Nothing has changed for me. ...so lonely and so dead.

I'm a Zombie tree-stump... EDIT: It seems I kinda brain-farted and didn't really put down any thoughts on BBM- oops lol. Re-reading his ISO (or rather, skimming it 'cause I'm super tired atm), I'm getting a strange vibe from his posts, but it's hard to explain. > I wonder if scum!BBM would bother defending Hannah to the extent that he has? Don't see why BBM (as her scumbuddy) wouldn't just let her sink and go for scoring points/cases elsewhere. > His cases aren't terrible (and the notions against Weapons/YOLO slots I can see/agree with), but I kinda feel some weird bouncing around when it came to his posts wrt "X/Y/Z scumteam" notions. Somehow, his gameplay for me has seemed... unmemorable, but then again I've only been paying like, half to 3/4 attention to the game (plus been tired/busy this past week or so IRL, so slightly distracting for me). So I dunno- he's not pinging me as he usually does, which is both good and bad (I seem to tunnel him a lot with him as TOWN!BBM), so IDK if the fact that he's not setting off any of my scumdars = good or bad thing at this point lol. Wouldn't put him above YOLO/Weapons in terms of priority atm though- probs tied with Bluedoom slot (in the list above). Anyways, with that, I'm headin' off. Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy Eury is gonna sleep now- nighty night~ ...so lonely and so dead.

I'm a Zombie tree-stump... Waaaaaaaah, I'm being lasso'd what? J-bby whai you do dis? Though I suppose this does mean I can start relaxing now, and not so much #efforting, lol? Aside from that, I've not been able to post much or anything this day phase, sorry about that. :/ I've no objections to the Hannah wagon/lynch. Magnificence (Marth/Bluedoom?) seems odd to me, and his claim reads oddly to me. I don't think it conflicts with J's one (I recall someone stating that it seems to conflict, but I don't really see it? IDR who though, if it wasn't Magnificence himself who stated it), but I'm also not necessarily seeing it as a townie-esque role either. Don't know how much I cared for the LG vote during this day phase either, but I admit that I haven't read too much into him since the stumpy-me/his subbing into the game happened (so take my notions with a grain of salt). Having some trouble getting a clear read on YOLO- He started off D3 okayish, but then I felt like his will to #effort and/or otherwise scum hunt kinda fell off and dissolved into nothing? Last few posts also read pretty lazy, and if Hannah/J both flip town, then I'd nail YOLO next for the fact that he's not really caring to look at others at this point/time (and not really bothering to scum hunt outside of those two either this day phase). I do also find his reaction to BBM voting him kinda OMGUS-esque in the sense of suspecting him (BBM) of being scum as a result. Plus, the notion of: "why would you want to lynch me first when its been obvious to nearly everyone in this town for some time now that there is def scum between j/hannah?" actually sounds pretty bad, in terms of redirection of lynch priorities off of himself. > If Hannah flips town, and J utilizes his role/dies tonight and also flips as town, I would aim at YOLO next, personally. Snike/weapons slot: I still have issues with how Weapons did shizz (but we all know that by now), and I still don't like this slot. Can't tell much more though, since nothing much has been seen from Snike yet. Skeptical on Prim's role, but his posts read alright to me. While I don't feel like Elie's pumped out a lot of solid content/reads this day phase, a lot of his latest posts read moreso as Town!Elie vibes moreso than Scum!Elie (with more townish intent/concerns listed than I think Scum!Elie would bother doing). OK with this slot. Hannah (the lynch today, probs) >>> YOLO = Weapons > Bluedoom Would probs be my thoughts in terms of priorities for this and the incoming day phase. Anyways, since this'll probably be my last post for the game/this day phase, have a good one all and gl to town! :D ...so lonely and so dead.

I'm a Zombie-Treestump. Welp, I stand corrected on Shinori. However, I do feel that his reactions were still legit, and that the way that Weapons executed his posts last day phase were terrible. Moving on: Several things I don't like about this post: 1. Since when was weapons CONFIRMED town? Never. Shinori flipping as an ITP SK is true, sure. But finding/scanning and weeding out an SK doesn't make you insta-cleared town by any means. Scum have their own reasons for removing ITP, and thus it is not an action that Mafia wouldn't do just as much as townside would, and it's an easy way of gaining towncred with it. 2. You claiming that you're out of shots/a "glorified townie" basically fed scum team the knowledge that you are basically useless in terms of PR's on townside (if you even are town). Congratulations on narrowing down their options in terms of NK's- and if you're basically a vanilla at this point, then asking to be protected is pretty stupid IMO, since there's not a whole lot more you've to bring to the table for townside at this point minus words/a vote. Had you feigned holding more shots, you could've attempted to redirect scum kill attentions elsewhere, but since that didn't happen... Oh well. 3. Openly requesting X Y or Z protection to be on specific people like that is also kinda bad at this point- whether townside's protection roles exist or not, and/or whether they were likely to protect you two just makes it easier for scumside to read townsided actions. Once again, I do not feel as though this action/notion was really a good one. 4. On another note: You too (like weapons) are not necessarily cleared at this point; shooting someone who was (by public/the majority of our playerbase) the next highest priority on our list anyways doesn't really say/do much since he would've probs been lynched anyways this day phase. While I see your vig shot as possibly being more townie than the scan by Weapons, I don't see either of you two as being cleared fully at this point. I will agree with some of the other posts though that Hannah's interactions have been pretty bad with the recent flips. Plus the fact that she hasn't really done much else to put things forward herself, her wagon/votes on her thus far seem reasonable at this point. I'm a Zombie-Treestump.

I'm a Zombie-Treestump. For one, I never said it was a post restriction that occurred via role- it was my own choice, and was a joke that was shared with J's notion earlier in the thread. Nothing more, nothing less (and at the same token, it basically highlights the fact that I cannot vote, so I'm basically just here to dawdle and spew out random shizz. Blame the scum team/killing source for that. ). Secondly, the latter part could be easily faked, so whether someone knows about it or not is pretty irrelevant/non-alignment indicative IMO. Not every scum member pays attention to how/what people end up flipping, so they too are liable for overlooking matters such as that. (And by the very fact that I'm still posting, it's kinda obvious even without my tags. So whether I use them or not is kinda irrelevant as a whole.) All I'll say to this is that, like the Eclipse post below, I don't believe this claim at all. Moreso, I find it's an attempt to not only avoid his own lynch, but possibly save weapons from the former 1v1 that was occurring since early D2 with this whole third party shizz. > Whether Shinori has confirmed or not the scan in terms of being a third party bears little to nothing on the fact that Gilgamesh's notions (in terms of role claims/what he did and what he learned N1) do not match up correctly. Would lynch KG for this alone, due to the sketchiness of the claim/attempting to condemn someone by that matter. No need to feel bad~ :) 1. So are you saying that, had you been ITP and been accused/told you scanned up as one, you would outwardly admit to being one? Because I don't see why Shinori wouldn't deny the claim in itself, given the nature of how Weapons chose to pursue him ED2. Whether he is or not by this point doesn't make his prior response seem any worse IMO. 2. The fact that Shinori has been included in most of the flavor by the Host does leave wiggle room in terms of possible role/claim(s). I don't see the issue with him possibly harboring a mechanic that really cannot or otherwise shouldn't be revealed to the rest of us, especially if it is something he needs to avoid (IE. A specific person/scum smacking him with something?). Look at Terrador when he rolled Miller in Dot.hack//The World: R1 Mafia- the moment (I think it was Bluedoom) "miller" was claimed as part of his role, the scum team took the shot banking on it being the person we (the scum team) needed to find to fulfill said shot/kill (as we were noted that a "traitor" was amongst the player list, and one of our scum team had a killing shot that was specially designed for that player alone). Which basically fed us more momentum/means of running down town-side. Perhaps there is something in Shinori's role that is likewise dangerous to out in any sort of circumstances? Granted, I know my history of tunneling ITP's pretty damn hard, and I know they're liable to lying about whether they're harmful or not. However, at this point, in terms of gauging Shinori's reactions, how Weapons (and KG at this point) have chosen to react towards him, and the lack of 2+ NK's in N1, I'm willing to give Shinori some wiggle room and would prefer to aim moreso on Weapons/KG over him. > Well, I would, if I could vote and/or have any sort of realistic influence over who lives/dies this day phase. :/ There have been roles before in which information can/will be restricted as per directed by role PMs- why is it hard to believe that he cannot/will not say, especially since him not saying anything is painting him in a worse light than if he had said anything? Do you think Shinori, as a fairly experienced Mafia player (he's had more than enough games to know when/how to do things) would risk looking bad if he could easily just claim stuff to get people off his case/back/wagon? Also, why vig KG over Weapons? Just because weapons may have scanned/found Shinori as the ITP doesn't mean Weapons is cleared/any better off than KG's bad claim/accusation IMO. In addition, if N2 happens with Shinori still alive and no other kill sources occur, isn't that enough proof in itself that he wouldn't be harmful? This post reads kinda bad to me (and the vote on Shinori is pretty easy as well). Reads don't seem terribly impressive, and blatant sheeping instead of producing more reads/thoughts on your own reads as your posting style/effort slacking (even if you are recently subbed in, there's no reason to drop such an easy vote when plenty of pressure has already been on the Shinori slot since D2). I'm a Zombie-Treestump.

I'm a Zombie-Treestump. Well, from my experience, it honestly shouldn't take someone asking you, "So do you think X is scum or town/what is your read on Y and Z?" for you to display some sort of reads. I understand, given the lack of experience perhaps on Forums/NoC game + unfamiliar player base that D1 could be sparse for you in terms of reads. But by D2, someone/something should've already pinged your radar in some way, shape, or form to give you more than just a bunch of relative null reads on people. 1. Responding angrily doesn't always mean the same thing in every situation though. Are you implying that scum!Hannah avoids responding as such? (Which I'd find rather odd, since scum tend to get more defensive/aggravated when put on the spotlight than townies generally do.) 2. Are you implying that scum don't tend to squirm out in the open and yet produce little to no content while flailing about? I have my doubts about this notion. 3. I also heavily disagree on this point, because her full post of 'reads' was basically "a lot of words for little to no real meaningful content" (nothing in the post changes or otherwise solidifies her cases, contributions, etc. to the game as a whole, so as a result, it brings very little if anything to the table?). This post prior wasn't as bad, as it actually held some sort of interest/responses to the rest of the player base (which is good), but then things fizzle out when, in the end, 90%+ of what was said in the post was "I have little to no reads, it's no surprise people are voting me" and basically more flopping around and not much else. @Bolded: Being cautious doesn't mean you don't make cases/reads on people. People can still be cautious with their gameplay but otherwise push forth their cases- just not with as much bulldozing/tunneling as other players around them may do. The fact that she's had NO cases, hasn't bothered seriously pursuing someone/something, and all of her main actions (votes, posts, etc.) has basically just been "I'm gonna go with whatever the general consensus is in the game (IE. D1 lynch) and not really support/put much thought into it" basically means that she's playing the game based on what's going on around her- as opposed to acting on her own thoughts, cases, etc. Which basically equates to her having sheeped the entirety of D1/D2 for the most part and hasn't really stuck her tongue/neck out and produced anything herself. Being "cautious" should not mean that she's unable to put forth her own content. With the notion "with who she cases" it also seems to me that she picks and chooses who she cares and doesn't care to look at/case. (I may be misinterpreting or otherwise misunderstanding your wording, so please correct me if I'm wrong in what I'm reading/thinking.) If that's the case, then that's another genuine concern of mine, for the fact that: >> AS TOWN, you should be looking at EVERYONE's cases, and EVERYONE in terms of reads/thoughts. Because you only know YOUR alignment (and maybe one other, if you're a role like Masons and are cleared that way?), and your entire purpose in the game is to find the scum amongst the unknown townies around you (IE. Anyone can be scum, so you play to read/get to know everyone and scum hunt that way. You should NOT be ignoring people or avoiding casing people for any reason, due to that very fact.) >> As SCUM, you may have more reason to breeze over/bypass scumbuddies and/or possibly let them drift under your radar while pushing the other people ahead of them as scum (unless you're SB and you love bussing your teammates to the lynch noose lol). Ignoring certain players/letting bad plays go for pretty shallow reasons is means of protecting or otherwise avoiding putting pressure on them, and that can be means of suspect/associative reads when flips end up happening. I can't say personally that I've seen/been with Hannah in her prior games (so her meta basically means nothing to me), but the fact that her actions seem to be pinging moreso in a negative fashion than not makes me eye the slot with scumminess. Also, like meta-based casing/logic, role/flavor speccing generally gets so far. In addition, the mods of a lot of the SF games hosted are pretty well known for throwing in wonky variants, roles, etc. and mixing things up, so that again shouldn't be heavily affecting her ability to perform any sort of scum hunting and/or otherwise producing more meaningful reads on the player base by this point/time. (And, at least from my PoV, posting a wall of null reads isn't really providing much of any sort of reads, Hannah. Rather, it kinda shows a lack of reads/casing on your end, which is why I'll refute your notion of having offered reads to us as sorta null/void in terms of what it provided for the rest of us. =P) I'm a Zombie-Treestump.

I'm a Zombie-Treestump. OHNOES I FORGOT MY SIGNATURE STAMP. I'm a terrible terrible zombie treestump... my brain has appeared to fallen out and rolled off somewhere to forget something like that... T_T **I'm a Zombie-Treestump. I'm a Zombie-Treestump.

I'm a Zombie-Treestump. Well, I didn't mean to like, be rude/an ass about it (if it came off that way, then I sincerely apologize), but I just find having zero reads at this point kinda perturbing. And I was also half-joking given the fact that I'm technically a dead player but I just retain the ability to still type/post during the day phases lol (until the person who's flavored with BBM dies that is), and wasn't so much making fun of your posts. Just so ya know~ On another note though: I do actually think the bolded/italicized text is a half-decent point against the other players. In terms of, "Why exactly are you busy tripping over senseless meta and mostly basing/expecting to read people based solely on meta shizz alone, when in-game/thread posts can often be just as condemning if not moreso in terms of scumminess?" This also goes hand-in-hand with a lot of the role/flavor speccing habits, which I don't think people should be throwing around as much as they are. :/ In that sense though, perhaps Gaius' meta in itself (albeit elsewhere) can also thus be different from how he plays here on SF vs. elsewhere (which basically renders most of what you may know as his 'meta' to be null and void in reading him here), which is another reason why I tend to not limit myself by relying heavily on meta gameplay to gauge/read people in Mafia games. >> IE. I tend to wall post, and early on, I only wall posted as town!Eury. Once I realized just how much it messed up my scum gameplay NOT to wall post, I started wallposting regardless of whether I was town or scum, which ended up messing with a lot of people in other games (in terms of reading me/my past meta). Granted, it's not perfected (I still do get caught fairly often as scum, and sometimes suspected as townie as being scum lol), but all in all, relying on someone's meta alone to scum hunt can and often will be unreliable IMO. Moving on, For one, it's not hard for scum to be willing to post up lots of words, especially if said words/posts really don't do anything for the rest of us. Posting a long wall of null reads/thoughts = how does that help us, especially in terms of associative reads on other players (if she ends up dying/flipping one way or the other)? If she's not openly supporting, investigating, or otherwise opposing cases/points and thus taking firm stances on people/lynches/etc., there's no way to know where she actually stands and thus renders herself liable to being/saying, "Well, I didn't NOT support X, Y, or Z, but who knows?" sort of thing. Plus, admitting to the fact that you're not having a lot of good/solid reads is often better appearance-wise than someone else shouting out/pointing out that fact in front of others. And sure, she can come up with "fake scum reads", but only if she can put in the time to fully fabricate and make the case look solid/reasonable by the rest of the player base. If you just throw out half-baked accusations/cases, then you just make it easier for people to spot scrapped cases (AKA. It's a lot easier to throw out null reads than to put out reasonable town/scum cases on people). Trust me, it's how I manage to pull wall posts off as scum and sometimes get off scott free because people see post Quantity, "effort", and then some semblance of sense/logic behind my cases in terms of scum/town reads. Granted, I sometimes take anywhere from 1-5 hours on a good wall post, but if it gets the job done, then... why not? Lol.