Vhaltz

Shin should respond to my questions about Via in #141 btw

@kirsche do you think Bossa!scum would come in, post a couple of stuffs and refuse to vote due to indecisiveness when I was currently getting wagoned for that exact same thing?

There's an argument to be had that repeating a tell over and over doesn't make it effective. In my experience "they could have posted that earlier" is dumb at the levels of the appeasement tell because it's very exploitable for scum to use and town would never base a case around it, regardless of who uses it it's always there to make the case seem stronger when it doesn't mean anything. People sometimes miss things when they're reading, and if anything talking about something past means they actually made the effort to reread. While I understand that it might be unreasonable to ask somebody to go back and find an instance where it was useful, if you can't really think of any off the top of your head and you can think of several times that you've used it as scum knowing it was BS, it probably means that it's rarely useful, if ever.

Nope I didn't feel like voting anybody else, also didn't really feel like unvoting until I was pretty certain that kirsche was town which didn't really happen until #100. I'm just generally annoyed with Prims since last postgame so you can ignore that if you like, it's just my way of telling him he shouldn't complain so much about bad meta and bad reads if he can't actually read me worth shit or bring up tells that matter. Wrt Yolo I just thought it was more productive to let it be as a general explanation, but if they still can't make sense of my posts when looking at them from the point of view I mentioned he can just go ahead and ask about specific stuff. @Rose can you elaborate what you mean with "Yolo's anti-town attitude"?

I'm not particularly bothered by it because you didn't vote on it or list it as a main read, but I don't really get what you're saying here. What were you expecting to get from Via and how do you interpret what you got from them? Just reread your posts and I'll also note that my unvote wasn't a case drop. My vote on kirsche was entirely RVS and I just unvoted because I don't think their aggressive pursuit came from scum. Why keep the vote under those circumstances?

I think you've mixed up Mancer with someone else btw.

Gaius Cam

^ if it wasn't clear I'm also townreading Via more than Bossa. I just added Via in post scriptum because I hadn't read through the Via/Shin exchange properly when I wrote the bit about Bossa. No particular thoughts on Shin other than I think his replies to Via are meh and don't really like his push on them based on meta uncertainty when that's what they usually play like. It feels like Shin should know Via better by now but nothing else he posted really bothered me so shrug. also Mitsuki for official mafia game oracle 2015 [12:42:06 AM] Mitsuki: mi thoughts QT se llama [12:42:11 AM] Mitsuki: "this game will suck" [12:42:28 AM] Mitsuki: I have a feeling

RE: bad meta, can you provide some instance where "but he could've made that case sooner!" has actually caught scum? This is point is Artificial Case Bloating and you should know it. I had missed the extremely short comment in #59 the first time around, but the sudden switch between "Rapier is silly" in #59 and "I'm feeling kind of weird about Rapier" in #85 is worth mentioning anytime in the game after I spotted it because there were no posts from Rapier in between. Paper's case also barely develops from his initial post at that point so I'm curious what you suddenly found so extremely sheepable about it. As it stands now you're just throwing out an OMGUS driven by salt from your last hosted game and generally not wanting to deal with me, so have fun with that because I'm not getting lynched. Don't care much about Yolo's case, but if he wants an explanation for this he should just read my play in Shovel Knight as Specter Knight and note that said playstyle only made me pursue Tinker!town and Propeller!town harder in LyLo, when I easily would've voted Treasure!scum at the beginning of the phase. I'm switching it up to avoid bias around reaction tests or "if X posts in Y style in response to this then that probably means they're Z" style of thinking because it just didn't work out for me at all. If he wants me to reply to other stuff he should say so because spending time explaining why I'm doing things beyond the above is just going to lead to more "so defensive must be scum!" circlejerkery of an established wagon. Not a fan of Snike's reasoning to keep his vote on Rapier in #117. I fail to see how announcing that you're taking the bait ruins a reaction test, if anything it makes the read more genuine for the one testing you than if you just pretended to be stupid and fall for it, and unsurprisingly, get voted for it. What point would there be to not announce it? Following that logic the only good thing Rapier could've done is twiddle his thumbs and wait for somebody else to take the bait, so it feels like it's painting potential town proactiveness as scummy. His comments on me are also off because he spends like 4 sentences agreeing with every point against me only to justify a read switch-around with one line that doesn't make sense "I don't see where he pursued either player aggressively like kirsche mentioned in #104." <- the whole point by kirsche was that I didn't pursue them, in #104 he was saying that I could have pursued them without being aggressive, which I don't really agree with but w/e. It feels like he wanted to keep himself off my wagon while not contributing to shut it down, and instead ended up cheering it on while explaining what should have been a null read. ##Vote: Snike Feel good about Paperblade because his defense of me spread across several posts keeps adding layer over layer of logic instead of just the "you guys are bad for voting this townie" approach I'd expect from scum whiteknighting. He's just playing with the game insight he usually has as town as far as I can tell. Mancer's posts also read like the most reasonable approach to the RVS shenanigans that were going on, you can argue that interfering with reaction tests is anti-town all you want, but the way he went about it was very clearly not with the intent to fuck with people's reads and instead to pursue people who made votes that he found questionable. Via is most likely town because I doubt she would've switcharoo'd from "man I don't think I wanna vote vhaltz anymore but I can't find another vote I like" to "alright vhaltz is probably scum then" as scum because they'd feel under pressure to be consistent. It's frustrating 'cause the initial meta read was wrong and I find Prims' case to be horrendously transparent in terms of it being relatiation for his frustration on me last game, but shrug. Bossa reads fairly reasonable, I like the speed of the followups and the stream of thought post, it locks his reads down for his next posts and would've been entirely unnecessary for scum to post. I like him much less than Mancer and Paperblade but still relatively cool compared to the rest of the game.

^ To elaborate on that since I mentioned looking out for Rapier's next posts. Something that has both potential scum intent and potential town scumhunting intent is worth looking out for more than something that just says nothing or is WIFOM like Shin's posts. ##Unvote Don't think #100 comes from scum. Would probably vote for Prims if anybody at this point because their "Rapier feels weird" line felt off from the perspective of somebody who knows Rapier like the back of his hand. What's wrong with Rapier? What were you expecting as a response from me and why didn't you follow up with anything wrt me when I suddenly became a wagon?

No, he did get the message. He just decided to stick to his vote because it benefitted him (if scum) or decided to stick to his vote because he thinks that what counts is the intent that Excellen had in mind when they first produced their vote and wasn't yet aware of the meta discrepancy (if town). While I don't agree with the conclusion, the second scenario is entirely reasonable so there's no reason to assume that we're dealing with the first scenario.

The justification that Rapier put out for his vote that actually mattered was in #56, not earlier.

It was very heavily implicit, and Rapier had done nothing remotely scummy as of that moment that warranted pursuing him aggressively over it. Your whole premise is flawed.

This conversation is dumb. If you want to keep parking your vote on me you might as well explain what the scum intent is in waiting for something that's actually scummy to come up.

Random one-liner post to push people around instead of doing anything productive Scum is most likely outside of the current conversation because they don't give a shit about keeping up with 2 sudden pages of spamposts and reacting timely when they can just come up later when the post explosion has died down and post whatever catch up post. Your claim isn't clear if you claim miller, then play along with Prims asking if you're claiming baker. I got it now though. Rapier's reasoning isn't good if they're like "MAN Excellen is trying to SMEAR Shin" when there's a clear meta discrepancy between current SF play and what Excellen is/was used to. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're scum though, since they might just think that the action of voting Shin itself was scummy regardless of the meta discrepancy. Re:bias. Voting for somebody means you're going to be focusing your attention on them more whether you like it or not, and you're going to maybe look too deeply into things when they next post which you might not do otherwise. It's not a big deal but I just didn't care to vote at the moment because I didn't feel like Rapier or Paper were likely scum.

I hope kirsche is fucking amazing at claiming when in a drunken stupor cause otherwise claiming baker is really dumb cuz they're thoughts I wouldn't even talk about if not asked for them, and voting for pressure is entirely useless now that the thoughts are out. Not worth voting to begin with either because it would just lead to confirmation bias over something dumb.

Well we can't load or save states so Dolphin probably is a better emulator. Looking out for Rapier's next posts because his justification for his vote is poor, and looking out for Paper's next posts because Rapier had already explained why he was keeping his vote despite my already explaining the meta dissonance, and I don't see his question making any difference or going anywhere. Don't particularly think anybody is more likely scum than not. Excellen read mildly town in their indignation which is why I explained the theory to stop them from digging themselves a grave. the fuck are these cuts XBAX

The guides you read might just be outdated with regards to the new SF meta. Self-voting has gone full circle from something usually considered scummy to something nobody does anymore unless they're doing it on purpose. Some players in SF (specially Shin) have self-voted in RVS in the past to help the game move on, since it baits people into voting them as well and some of those people who jump on the wagon may have SCUM INTENT on their minds when doing so.

I disagree. ##Vote: kirsche

A mistake that somebody made on the internet! I played the piano for over 10 years and music was probably my main interest throughout my teenage years, I came across the sheet music for Faerie's Aire and Death Waltz by John Stump which was really hilarious (note the random weird shit written on it like "light explosives now", "slap thigh" and "remove cattle from stage"), so I went to find it on youtube to see what the hell it actually sounded like. The video I found is now deleted but here's a reupload, it originally just said "John Stump - Death Waltz" and I only found out it was a Touhou song by reading the comments. Then I started checking out other Touhou music, and arranged Touhou music is an absolute goldmine so I kept finding more and more until I became interested in the characters, read up on stuff and ended up joining Touhou communities.

Poor Rein, it's almost like getting rickroll'd :V

Joining as long as the game starts soon, I'll probably be busier towards the end of the month. Also UL rules are exploitable by town so I'd watch out for that and come up with mod actions in case that happens.

I'm cool with co-mod requests. I end up doing votals for a couple of games I spectate anyways.

That's what co-mods are for. IOs, like spectators, don't necessarily read through the whole game. In this case an IO could have only maybe warned you if they noticed the issue with Propeller's ED3 post, whereas a co-mod could have resolved the issue or paused the game as soon as the issue popped up in late D3.

I'm not asking for the game to be filed under "nonvalid" Just get a comod next game.