Czar_Yoshi

What are your pairings (for the children), are all your stats capped, and are you going for Normal or Secret?

From a different topic, but most of it should be relevant for you.

We practically have one, it's called The Pairing Thread. What else are you going to do with that ultimate team? Maybe it should be renamed.

That's actually a really good pairing. It's only gameplay flaw is that Henry is in very high demand thanks to Sumia- Nah has 3/3 Str/Mag and can effortlessly transition between physical support and magical (Tomefaire Valkyrie or Axefaire Wyvern, she has a ton of Auras as well). Aesthetically though, it's pretty high on my eyebrow raiser list. Go ahead, compare Henry/Nowi S and Henry/Nah A. Who would have guessed Nah would be right about her dad? Don't forget Tharja.

Depends on the unit. Generally I'd say Anathema > DG+ > Hex, but there are situations where I'd prefer DG+ over Anathema.

Giving Staffbots supports just wastes units because they never see combat and don't need them- thus Staffbots are always best as Spotpass/DLC characters. Units who can support shouldn't be Staffbots except for aesthetic reasons. Logbook units can also get unlimited Boots, which all your Staffbots should have. Generally, Staffbots are +Mag/-anything Valkyries with LB/TF/Mov+1/Acrobat/Anathema holding Valflame.

Brawl's clones were different from Melee's. In Melee, characters shared exact animations, and only had various physical properties (weight, running speed, hitboxes and trajectories etc) changed. In Brawl, there were plenty of folks who shared similarities in the way they moved or attacked, but none with identical-looking moves. Actually, Wolf shares almost nothing with Fox other than his size, appearance and general manner of special moves. I don't get how you can possibly call that a clone. Dr.Mario was a Mario clone in Melee, Luigi wasn't. See the difference? Anyway, Lucina is very definitely on the Melee side of how clones work. Apart from some slightly different balancing on her offensive hitboxes and being slightly shorter, she's even more of a Marth Clone then Melee's clone style.

Then how many are there? You're saying that, because the only time Emmeryn is ever glorified is by people who are loyal to her, the story gives you no proof that she actually is glorified. But these people make up 100% of the playable cast, and there isn't even a narrator to "objectively confirm" that she's an awesome leader. But by the same token, you can also say that the game never tells you what a bad job she did. There's no narrator saying, "and thus, because of Emmeryn's pacifism, a war was wrought throughout the land...", and all the people who don't like her are her enemies, so they're biased and their opinions don't count. Where's all this portrayal of her as a bad leader you're seeing under the "false portrayal" of her as good, and where are you getting that the good portrayal is intended as false and the bad as true?

Hmm. Brady@Sage (LimitBreaker/GaleForce/Aggressor/TomeFaire/Luna) x Cynthia@Dark Flier (LB/GF/TF/Luna/DualGuard+) Lucina@Dark Flier (LB/GF/Aether/Luna/DualStrike+) x Owain@Sage (LB/Agg/GF/TF/Astra) Morgan@Paladin (LB/GF/SwordFaire/Luna/Ignis) x Inigo@Hero (LB/GF/Agg/SF/Astra) Virion!Severa@Wyvern Lord (LB/GF/LanceFaire/Vengeance/All+2) x Vaike!Gerome@Berserker (LB/Agg/AxeFaire/All+2/Tantivity) Don't forget to give everyone every tonic (the most important one is Spd on Severa). That's not a maxed team, but four pairs should be plenty if you bring lots of staffbots. I don't like using Astra by itself, but most of your Galeboys don't have Luna, so they'll have to make do. Torva, similar rallies don't stack. Having two copies of Spectrum/Def/Res just wastes space.

If +1 is fine, use Dread Fighter. Trickster's pairup bonuses are cool but they're incredibly weak. For Lon'qu!Severa vs Virion!Severa, the main difference is that the former gets Swordfaire and the latter gets Tomefaire for time not spent as a Wyvern Lord (Hero and Dark Flier like these). Lon'qu!Severa can hit 75 Spd as a Wyvern with an Assassin support and no All+2 as well. Both Lon'qu and Virion can go decently on several others but don't make or break any (Brady, Yarne and Nah are all cool with both of them, Lon'qu can also go on Laurent but doesn't break any thresholds that I care about over Gregor (he's better than Stahl, though)). Anathema is fine, but Hit+20 also works for Berserker supports and is a lot more common. Stahl and Virion are both good sources, particularly for Yarne.

I completely agree. And I, uh, also don't play by a single one of the conditions outlined in the OP. So I can't really comment on whether I think certain units need to be moved up or down. However, I can remind you why tier lists in general don't work out for this game: the gameplay is complex enough that changing even a single condition completely changes who is great and who is useless. This list might be fine for Hard with a ton of anti-RNG restrictions, but it clearly won't work for Lunatic(+). Remove one of those restrictions (say, spotpass shops) and watch the list be flipped on its head. To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's any style of play that's widespread enough for a tier list to be of much use. If there was, it would be Secret Apo with no restrictions, but even that's incredibly complicated because pairings make or break units and you'd have to rate each possible pairing. That's all I've got to say. Have fun, guys.

For anyone that needs them, they're all in the sticky at the top of this forum.

Wyvern Severas use All+2 and a Berserker support to hit 75 Spd. They have room for it, too (LB/GF/LF/Vengeance/All+2) thanks to not needing a procstack. Just put Nah behind Brady and call it a day. Nah has enough Atk boosting skills to make a set out of as a Sage, Brady doesn't maind having a hard magical support, it should work out just fine. Give Nah Libra (Yarne is a physical dude, he can take Vaike) instead for more magical power, and then swap Nah's Libra and Brady's Virion if you'd rather Brady have Vengeance and get a little more DS (Nah can equip Skl+2) than a little more Spd on Brady and 1 more Mag on Nah. Or, since Ricken is free, if you really want Libra!Yarne then give him to Nah.

Oy... If you bothered to read the first post, TC knows literally nothing about how Apo works, or about teambuilding in general. In the hands of someone who doesn't know what to do with them, those units are no more powerful than a random Spotpass/DLC character. So, I think more general advice is in order. Anyway, a couple of general rules for beating Apo (Normal or Secret): 1. Use Limit Breaker. Use it on everybody (except Rallybots), and don't take anyone who doesn't have at least their Spd and Str/Mag capped with it (though the more stats you can cap, the better). 2. Pick children over adults. There are 13 in total, and they all have most of the classes from both parents combined, as well as having higher stat caps in general. You can only take 20 units into Apo, Chrom is forced, and Avatar/Olivia/two Rallybots are very helpful, so you don't have room for many others. Those others should be dedicated staff users for using Rescue/Fortify. 3. All of your combat pairs should have an A rank support at minimum, and preferably they should all be at S. This means units like Tiki and Flavia shouldn't be used. 4. All of your units should have Brave weapons. This allows for a maximum of 12 attacks per turn (the lead unit strikes four times, the support strikes twice on each lead swing). Celica's Gale is the Brave Tome, and it can be bought from Spotpass Celica. After those general rules are followed, it's important to choose the right skills. The only two skills you should never use in Apo are Counter and Lethality, because all the enemies are immune to them. In addition to Limit Breaker, all units who have them should equip Aggressor, Galeforce, Luna, Aether and a Faire skill for their weapon of choice. Some good skills for any empty skillslots (these don't need to be on, but often help) are Hit+20, Astra (when Luna is already equipped), Vengeance (only if Luna isn't equipped), Ignis, Deliverer, All Stats+2, Lifetaker, Bowbreaker and Lancebreaker. Your units also need to be in the right classes. Generally good classes are Sage, Dark Flier, Sniper, Assassin, Hero, Berserker, Paladin, Warrior, Wyvern Lord and Bride. The only classes you really want to avoid are Great Knight, Griffon Rider, Bow Knight, Swordmaster, Taguel, and all unpromoted classes. From there, it's very important that units be able to make good use of their ally's pairup boosts. There's not much point in pairing a Warrior and a Sage. If you post who's already married to who, your Avatar's Asset/Flaw and whether you plan on tackling Normal Apo or Secret Apo (clear the first round by the end of turn 2, enemies have stronger skills, higher stats and a time limit on the last two waves) I can give more specific advice.

You and I may have different definitions of the word "Solo", because last I checked the only character who can do a true solo is Chrom, because he's force deployed. I highly doubt you did a duo with any Morgan as well, because Morgan and Chrom can't support.

Vaike can go on Cherche, Nowi, Cordelia, and Panne without any ill effects (though Severa won't get Wyvern with Vaike). All other pairings for him (including Sully) either have major modifier conflicts or are missing some critical class.

GameFAQs users aren't terribly reputable, FYI. Whoever said he's best as a Wyvern was either talking about a niche scenario, and aesthetics run, or has very strange priorities. Vaike!Gerome is pretty much universally better because Frederick!Gerome has no Faires. His final class is usually Berserker. And who exactly is going to inherit Vaike's AT? He can't go on Cynthia or Lucina, Severa and Morgan already have it, and putting him on Kjelle/Noire robs one of them of Galeforce, and Nah is almost always better going magical. Vaike's female inheritance set is certainly awesome, but there's nobody who can actually use it. Severa comes the closest (she gets Luna, Axefaire and high Str) but she still has Merc overlap.

Oh, so no DLC? In a no-DLC postgame, self-healing generally trumps procstack because you have less need for offense (no Dragonskin, EP combat is less dangerous) and more defense because you get mobbed if you're not fielding a ton of units and pouring money into Rescue. Brady already has Renewal and Lifetaker, give those a look. If you were to stick another proc on him (from Gregor, at least) I'd make mine Sol.

Fair enough. Let's ask someone else... Like one of the bad guys. How about Aversa? Fun fact: throughout all of Cht.5, Aversa insults pretty much everyone except Emmeryn. Not even a single sarcastic compliment (though Gangrel has plenty of those). She doesn't bother in Cht.9 either. Make of that what you will.

Well, the main thing is that Brady doesn't have room in his skillset- he's packing LB/GF/Agg/TF/Luna and Sage just from Maribelle, and the only potentially beneficial skill that would be worth swapping one of those for is Vengeance over Luna. You can try to replace TF or something with Astra, but damage calcs show that TF is not only vastly superior but has perfect reliability to boot. It's only "not that difficult" if a pair is both built around it and has pairing priority (meaning you pair them up first and then sort out your other units when planning). It generally requires lots of Snipers and some Assassins/Heroes, along with high Skl mods on both units (you need an average of 80 Skl, so...) and All+2 or even Skl+2 if your mods aren't high enough. It's worth it, though. If AT on children is desired, that's fine (I like it), but you're going to have to sacrifice some legitimately good skills- most likely Tomefaire or Luna- to make it work. And actually 100% DS is a much more important prerequisite for save Vantage use than Vengeance is.

257 Hit to have 100% on everything (before Weapon Triangle), 249 Avo to dodge everything that isn't Hawkeye, 75 Spd to double everything, 69 Spd to double everything but Anna and the two Nightmare Snipers, 74 Res to be tinked by Mire, 160 Skl between two units for 100% DS (or 120 with DS+). Def thresholds usually don't matter. Missing that 75 Spd threshold isn't usually too big of a deal as long as you have at least 3 pairs who hit it, just try not to go under 69 Spd. 100% DS isn't too hard to hit, so don't worry if you can't get more than one (if you can only get one, try for 75 Spd on it too). Hit can be a little lower if you lure Anna off her Throne before attacking her. Avo is mostly a gimmick, but can be useful for the Nightmare Snipers. Res doesn't matter if you have enough Staffbots/are willing to take a little damage approaching the Dark Fliers in Wave 4. Those pairs are mostly good, but maybe swap Gregor for Libra?

Actually, I'd say the difference between Eirika and Emmeryn is their responses upon having their castle sacked by Validar/Valter. They both start off being dragged off by Seth/Chrom, but after their first battle Eirika picks up a sword and Emmeryn runs off back home.

But she has one! Er, had. Remember that nameless Priest who bailed in Cht.7?

Just saying, but a) physical VV is bad due to no 1-2 range Braves, and b) there are far more uses for 100% DS than VV. If you forget about VV you'll also be able to make more 100% DS pairings. VV also only needs one pair who can do it to reach it's full potential, any more usually become a headache to set up with sharply diminishing returns. Melon's suggestions should work, though Nah and Brady will probably perform better as pure Magical- if Laurent can take someone else, put Virion on Nah. Actually, try this: Stahl!Gerome x Noire, Virion!Nah x Brady, Ricken!Owain x Kjelle, and Kellam!Laurent x Cynthia. That way, Laurent and Kjelle's pairup boosts won't be wasted (though Owain's will be).

As a Dancer, Olivia's Mag growth is surprisingly close to her Str growth. If you Dance your way to Lv.30 and reclass directly to Dark Flier, her Tomes won't be much weaker (they might be even stronger) than her Lances. Her Str and Mag mods are also the same. As a Dancer, her Str/Mag caps are the same too, so Levin works pretty well on her. I wouldn't say Magical Olivia is bad at all (compared to physical Olivia, at least). LB/GF/SF/S.Dance/All+2 or Bond as a Dancer is Olivia's best set for Apo, though she also makes a nice Falco for non-Apo postgame.