Ideas for a calander system in a Genealogy remake

[Jotari]

It's subtle, but some sort of calander system has been consistently present in Fire Emblem for some time now. I reckon if someone says calendar, the gut reaction might be a negative flashback to Three Houses and all the busy work that has to be done to ensure major battles happen exactly one month apart from each other, but Three Houses didn't introduce the calander system. Awakening was the one to do that, though even before Awakening they toyed with real time passage influencing things in the DS online shop. Awakening was the one though to integrate it into the world and give the characters birthdays and stuff. And I think something like that could really work well for Genealogy. Why? Because it wouldn't be frivolous like the gift giving on the 3DS. It could be actually a meaningful gameplay feature due to Genealogy's unique economic system. Here is how I envision it.

*Like Shadows of Valentia, the calendar is not attached to a real time clock. Instead, every turn causes the passage of one day. You do, however, get to choose which day of the year the calendar starts at.

*Every character has a designated birthday. If it's that character's birthday, then any other unit can give them one item without having to use the Pawnshop owner. So, say, you want Arya to give Sigurd her Brave Sword, you can either do it freely at any time by coughing up half its value to the Pawn Shop owner, or, you can wait until it's Sigurd's birthday to give it free of charge.

*Gen 1 birthdays are fixed, but Gen 2 birthdays are modifiable depending on when the two parents get together.  To make it predictable and easy to work with, let's say the eldest child will always have a birthday on the same day the parents got together (so it took them three months to conceive and 9 months to gestate) with the younger child having their birthday six months after that (but obviously a later year). Arya's children are twins though. Yes, the might contradict some Battle of Barhara stuff, but getting hitched at the last second is always going to be a logical impossibility there.

*Each month has a crusader day celebrating one of the 12. On that specific crusader day, anyone from the territory of that crusader can give a gift to anyone. So on Ced day Lewyn and Fee or their children can give a gift to anyone they choose. The day celebrating Heim is like Christmas, everyone can give a gift to anyone else, once. The reason for this is that a day of free gift giving would be useful, but also that there's nobody from Barhara (well consciously from Barhara, since Deirdre and Julia don't know they are and aren't around for many chapters anyway). For Jamka, Deirdre and Dew there can be some kind of Verdane national day or something.

*Eligible characters will also receive love points with each other when giving and receiving a gift.

*If we're feeling extra ambitious, then our glorious HD Jugdral will have slowly alternating seasons depending on what day of the year it is. No longer do we need to be constraint to the snow tileset only in Silesse, let me see Jugdral's mighty maps in Autumn foliage and Spring bloom.

Ultimately this wouldn't be a huge change to the game.  Gift giving would be an infrequent bonus you might be able to  make use of rather than a game redefining mechanic. But it does give an alternate option for those who feel that the Genealogy money system is frustratingly limited. And LTC players would love it, as planning a run so you can exchange a specific item on a specific day (that is to say turn) is like LTC/Speed Runner ecstasy.

One thing I'm in two minds about is the plot based time skips. Namely should months be flipped over between chapters to suit the narrative. One the one hand, that'd be cool and awesome, on the other hand, it would make it harder to control as a gameplay feature and certain days might be  missed by being skipped over. For reference sake, the expected average number of turns a player should take to complete a Genealogy of the Holy War map is 50, as that's when love growths stop accumulating. So with 6 chapters per generation you should see 300 days (aproximately, prologue will make a lot fewer turns than end game), almost the whole calendar pass through once per generation (or a literal year if we make Jugdral's number of days in a year different to Earth's).

Well, just a thought I had when we were talking about Genealogy on the Becoming an Elitest Thread. It would be a minor feature, but I think a mildly fun one for the sake of world building and high efficiency pre-planing. I guess I'd sum it up as a combination of all the calander systems we've seen so far, the birthday gift giving of Fateswakening (only with actually meaningful items to exchange, that's the most important part), the passage of time being tied to gameplay like Shadows of Valentia and the in universe holidays and feast days for world building and stuff of Three Houses (Engage didn't have a calendar system of any sort, did it? Oh wait, I think it might have had just the Fateswakening real world clock stuff).

Edited March 12 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

The passage of time in Genealogy is too fixed for a calendar system, I think. Since it has to begin in Grann Year 757 during Gen 1 and finish in early 760 for Chapter 5.

I feel if they do add one, it will work like SoV's. Where you can clock hundreds of days in a season, but the next season wont begin until you reach the next chapter. On that subject, better just go for using the internal clock like Awakening/Fates/Engage. It worked in Three Houses due to the school year system, as they could use a full year and include almost every day in it, in some form or another. For anything else...

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I have to admit I laughed out loud when discovering the purpose of this suggestion was to facilitate gift giving that's not normally possible in FE4. It's creative if nothing else. Perhaps they should also be able to Give Gold, like how in real life you get someone a gift card whenever you give up on choosing an actual gift they may like. I have to object immediately to the idea of a new player experiencing a Chapter 4 where it's not snowing in Silesse, however.

Speaking as a casual FE4 enjoyer, introducing birthdays on specific turns is really going to inflame the choice anxiety I get in a lot of FE4's already-complicated long term decision making. Especially pairings, since if a certain pairing was selected to pass down much needed weapons and items, then that changes the calculus entirely. And it trickles all the way down to how I split up my party in different directions - I can't give you a number on how many turns it takes to conquer Heirhein castle in Chapter 1, because Pavise cares not for my quest for the bargain band. Could you imagine poor Arden having too few movement to collect Ayra's 30 kills Slim Sword? I guess Jugdral doesn't believe in belated or early birthday presents

Ultimately I would want a calendar system unlike the 3DS era in which the player is unable to influence. Because FE4 does have an unusually rigid timeline for its events both in terms of the narrative and because of the baby making weirdness. Forget birthdays, how about menstruation cycles where women have to be ovulating for their Lovers before the end of Chapter 5? It can also be the return of Biorhythm, but only for the girls. Kaga would back me up on this.

Here's how I'd introduce this concept in a way that's more lenient: Birthday months. Real life armies do this; Everybody whose birthday falls in that month gets to be part of a shared celebration. And when you start a chapter of FE4, (or perhaps a new "Act" of the same chapter) you get a notification that it's X month, here are the birthdays being celebrated. Now you can give gifts to those units on any turn of that chapter. And it wouldn't be every FE4 unit across a playthrough. Make it specific units that need the help. Like Arden! I say it should be his birthday month several times throughout Gen 1. That way it's easier to pair him up without holding his girlie back too much from the action. Late joining units should also have it be their birthday more frequently for the same reason. 

 

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The passage of time in Genealogy is too fixed for a calendar system, I think. Since it has to begin in Grann Year 757 during Gen 1 and finish in early 760 for Chapter 5.

I feel if they do add one, it will work like SoV's. Where you can clock hundreds of days in a season, but the next season wont begin until you reach the next chapter. On that subject, better just go for using the internal clock like Awakening/Fates/Engage. It worked in Three Houses due to the school year system, as they could use a full year and include almost every day in it, in some form or another. For anything else...

I did consider how someone could just wait outside Velthomer and have time pass to the second gen the "slow way", which is why I didn't mention years and just have each day month be in an ambiguous year. I personally think that's fine, but full immersion into the actual year system and Genealogy's narrative would be possible. The system would just necessarily have to be willing to freeze after the player gets too far ahead. The time skips between chapters could be done to course correct. For example, the civil war in Silesse always starts on a certain day and you'll be time skipped to that day if you're below it. Spend too many turns and you get close to the day (unlikely in this specific case as that time skip is a year long and 350 turns would be excessive to mill without intention) then the calendar just stops progressing at a certain point on a day without events. That would allow for the calendar to be more tailored for each chapter so you're not getting something like Tailtu's birthday in Chapter 2 where it's useless to you (and also allows Silesse to be tailored towards winter while still having the seasons exist in general).

This would only need to be a thing in Gen 1, Gen 2 doesn't have any major time skips or the like. The war can just take as long as it takes there.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I have to admit I laughed out loud when discovering the purpose of this suggestion was to facilitate gift giving that's not normally possible in FE4. It's creative if nothing else. Perhaps they should also be able to Give Gold, like how in real life you get someone a gift card whenever you give up on choosing an actual gift they may like. I have to object immediately to the idea of a new player experiencing a Chapter 4 where it's not snowing in Silesse, however.

Speaking as a casual FE4 enjoyer, introducing birthdays on specific turns is really going to inflame the choice anxiety I get in a lot of FE4's already-complicated long term decision making. Especially pairings, since if a certain pairing was selected to pass down much needed weapons and items, then that changes the calculus entirely. And it trickles all the way down to how I split up my party in different directions - I can't give you a number on how many turns it takes to conquer Heirhein castle in Chapter 1, because Pavise cares not for my quest for the bargain band. Could you imagine poor Arden having too few movement to collect Ayra's 30 kills Slim Sword? I guess Jugdral doesn't believe in belated or early birthday presents

Ultimately I would want a calendar system unlike the 3DS era in which the player is unable to influence. Because FE4 does have an unusually rigid timeline for its events both in terms of the narrative and because of the baby making weirdness. Forget birthdays, how about menstruation cycles where women have to be ovulating for their Lovers before the end of Chapter 5? It can also be the return of Biorhythm, but only for the girls. Kaga would back me up on this.

Here's how I'd introduce this concept in a way that's more lenient: Birthday months. Real life armies do this; Everybody whose birthday falls in that month gets to be part of a shared celebration. And when you start a chapter of FE4, (or perhaps a new "Act" of the same chapter) you get a notification that it's X month, here are the birthdays being celebrated. Now you can give gifts to those units on any turn of that chapter. And it wouldn't be every FE4 unit across a playthrough. Make it specific units that need the help. Like Arden! I say it should be his birthday month several times throughout Gen 1. That way it's easier to pair him up without holding his girlie back too much from the action. Late joining units should also have it be their birthday more frequently for the same reason. 

 

If we're getting to that point it's not really birthdays. Arden would just be better off with the "Poor Dolt" skill that lets anyone donate weapons and money to him out of pity (which would actually be a great thing for him to pass down). Though if we're talking Arden fixes then immediately I suggest he gets another weapon at base. Going from one weapon to four it a bit excessive a leap (though for Master Knight it's cool 😎). Bows at base in addition to swords would really work for him as it would help him reach enemies easier, but, more importantly, it would give him an option for alternative opponents to fight against in the Arena allowing for more easy clears.

Forgive the double post. I knew there were two comments to respond to and I even knew what I was going to say, but I hit submit reply prematurely and now Serenes won't let me edit the previous post.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

This would only need to be a thing in Gen 1, Gen 2 doesn't have any major time skips or the like. The war can just take as long as it takes there.

They do mention, at the beginning of the final chapter, that one year has passed since they left Tirnanog.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

They do mention, at the beginning of the final chapter, that one year has passed since they left Tirnanog.

I know, but that's not really important or relevant to the events. It's just done to give an impression of the time scale.

I'd also not that any freezing of the calendar could afford to be very generous. As four years is about 1,400 days/turns, which is much higher than the 300-400 turns a player would be expected to finish the first gen in. Even an excessively slow player is unlikely to have half of the time pass by turn count alone. Reaching any kind of cap would likely involve sitting there and hitting end turn repeatedly for the sake of it.

Edited March 12 by Jotari

[AnonymousSpeed]

I like the idea of seeing time of day and season change as you play through the map. I think it would lend a lovely sense of scale to the whole thing.

Regarding chronological concerns, I'm not really worried about them. The remake isn't really beholden to any game's chronology except the possible Thracia remake, so it's allowed to deviate from the original game's timeline and make things take as long as they want. As such, I think the most fun option is to allow the dates to deviate and the players to write their own Judgral histories.

You can have a soft turn-limit for Gen 1, which is when all the woman hit menopause. After this point you get substitutes, even if the mothers were paired up. The hard turn-limit is where everyone actually gets too old and dies. Their stats will slowly reduce before this, but the time it takes for your army of teenagers to turn 80 would be so exorbitant that I doubt it's a real concern.

Some bosses should be programmed to die of random heart failure on specific turns.

Time-skips can either take a certain amount of time or go to the next instance of a certain date on the calendar, but having them all be a certain number of days allows LTC players to compete for earlier date of resolution.

While I support having birthday gifts as a fun little thing, I do think all the Crusader holidays are a little excessive. I feel like this takes it out of the realm of being a fun little thing for flavor and world-building and more into the realm of having a micro-management mechanic where people who don't like the trade mechanic can lose hair and punish themselves trying to avoid the trade mechanic.

Having a birthday bonus if you visit the castle on your birthday is a must.

Regarding the weather changing in Silesse, I think it's fine to have it as a place which is snowy all year. I see no conflict between that and a seasonal cycle, so long as you allow different places to have different seasons.

If we're tracking days anyway, should we also add a mechanic where you track how many vacation days your soldiers get?

[Original Alear]

It's Ayra. Arya is from Game of Thrones. Ayra is from Genealogy. Believe me, it's very important.

[Alastor15243]

A day passing every turn would canonize some rather wacky nonsense in several chapters where people get left for dead and survive long enough for you to reach the castle with no evident medical attention.

[Jotari]

On 3/13/2024 at 11:31 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

While I support having birthday gifts as a fun little thing, I do think all the Crusader holidays are a little excessive. I feel like this takes it out of the realm of being a fun little thing for flavor and world-building and more into the realm of having a micro-management mechanic where people who don't like the trade mechanic can lose hair and punish themselves trying to avoid the trade mechanic.

I get the stress of micromanagement, even though something like this would objectively make micromanagement easier, humans being the illogical creatures that we are would see it as more stress. The main purpose of the Crusader holidays really are for world building more than the micromanagement though, that's why I suggested them, as we have stuff like that in Three Houses, and that's an aspect of Three Houses world building I like (in a game where I otherwise have a lot of choice words about world building). So, I could live with the gift giving part of the Crusader Holidays being removed and substituted with certain characters getting a minor stat boost, or even just nothing at all and them just being marked on the calendar for pure flavour.

9 hours ago, Original Alear said:

It's Ayra. Arya is from Game of Thrones. Ayra is from Genealogy. Believe me, it's very important.

Pretty sure it's Ira.

29 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

A day passing every turn would canonize some rather wacky nonsense in several chapters where people get left for dead and survive long enough for you to reach the castle with no evident medical attention.

Well, that obviously is an issue already no matter what is done to timing. Byron in particular is just hilarious. We specifically know he is injured at least one year before he actually dies,possibly even close to two, depending on how long Chapter 4 takes. I guess Langbolt really patched him up only to injure him again, though that's not really the impression the writing gives us in specifically telling us he's been injured in Chapter 3 from two different sources, information that is repeated and turns out to just...not be important, relevant or necessary and at best foreshadows unrelated injuries leading to death later. Why they even bothered to keep him alive when he could completely destroy them if he ever got remotely close to the king is beyond me.

Edited March 15 by Jotari

[Nauriam]

I really like the idea of time passing based on turns when it comes to seasons. I think if it was implemented well, changing seasons having gameplay impacts would be really cool from a replayability aspect. What the seasons would effect I'm not totally sure but it could be things such as: occupying armies or soldiers from different climates would perform worse in a harsh northern winter or hot southern summer. In actuality it would probably lead to 3 situations:

1. The game is balanced around the average player taking X turns per chapter, and the seasonal effects help promote new characters for the season they're introduced in, which provides variety in the gameplay
2. An LTC or particularly efficient player will finish maps faster than the "intended" time, which will cause them to go to other maps in a different season. This would ideally make the map more challenging for the experienced player without making it less fun to play
3. Someone who grinds excessively or passes turns would also be able to enter the next map in another season, which can (most likely) punish them for grinding. It would probably be a trade-off of training soldiers you currently have in exchange for soldiers you get later joining during a season that they're less useful in.

I also just think that having seasons pass will really add to the world building of the game. It'd be a risky mechanic to implement because it would be very hard to get right, but in theory it'd be really fun.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I was originally not so keen on this idea... but, I think I've started to come around on it. In fact, I think there's a lot more you could do with a "days of the week" system. Namely:

I. Arena Enemies. Seven days of the week, seven arena enemies. Rather than fighting them all consecutively, I'm envisioning one enemy each day. I feel like that would cut down on the grind - or at least, disperse it over more turns. To make it easier on the player, let's suppose that every chapter begins on a Monday. Tuesday is the "round 2" enemy, Wednesday "round 3", and so on. Thus, there's something keeping the player coming back to the Arena, as well as trying out the Arena from later castles, rather than doing it all from home. And, if they beat Gazzak one Monday, and come back a week later, they'll find Gazzak again... but with a Power Ring this time! That's right, "rematches" of Arena enemies with items buffing them. So serious players can gain more Gold and EXP than ever before - even if they don't want to bother with "take the Paragon Band down, pass it around" strats.

II. Daily Discounts. The Armorer, the Blacksmith, and the Pawn Shop. All drains on an adventurer's wallet. But what if they could be just a bit cheaper? Instead of spending 5000 on that Silver Sword, it only costs 4000? That's what I'm thinking - a 20% discount on specific pawns, buys, and repairs. Swords on Monday, Tomes on Tuesday, Axes on Wednesday, Bows on Thursday, Lances on Friday, and Staves on Saturday. As for Sunday? They're all closed! Everyone needs a day off, now and then. Speaking of which...

III. Free Healing on Sundays. Well, on Saturday night, technically. This would apply whether you're in the home castle, or landed on a church. Either way, on Sunday morning, your HP will be full, and it won't have cost a dime. A blessing of Bragi, perhaps? Or a nicety of Naga? Who's to say, really?

There could potentially be others, like events specific to a certain weekday. Hm... maybe secret events that previously required a certain tile, like Pursuit Ring Arden, could instead demand a specific day within a more general area? Not sure if that'd make things easier, or harder.

On 3/12/2024 at 6:30 PM, Jotari said:

I know, but that's not really important or relevant to the events. It's just done to give an impression of the time scale.

See, this is the part that kind of makes me wince. I'd prefer things happen on a relatively fixed timeline. Seliph's journey isn't just the part we're guiding. It's also time spent between chapters, as well as the "missing arc" between Thracia and Miletos. If he goes substantially faster, or slower, it could have serious geopolitical implications. If they got to Miletos too late, would the children have been hunted already? If we're too early to Thracia, then maybe the Munster arc hasn't even happened yet? Who knows!

On 3/12/2024 at 6:25 PM, Jotari said:

Bows at base in addition to swords would really work for him as it would help him reach enemies easier, but, more importantly, it would give him an option for alternative opponents to fight against in the Arena allowing for more easy clears.

My take is, open up the "ranged arena" to anyone who has a weapon that can attack beyond 1-range. Hand Axe, Flame Sword, Nosferatu? You're all in.

...Admittedly, this would actually lock mages out of the "melee arena", unless a "Surge"-style tome were introduced.

On 3/12/2024 at 2:22 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

And it wouldn't be every FE4 unit across a playthrough. Make it specific units that need the help. Like Arden! I say it should be his birthday month several times throughout Gen 1.

I am here for anything that gives our boy Arden more love. Maybe "birthday month" could have other bonuses? Like, all weapon kills count for 2 stars, rather than 1, during that month? Or an additional skill, such as Paragon, taking effect. If a month is overkill, perhaps a week would be enough time.

[AnonymousSpeed]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

I get the stress of micromanagement, even though something like this would objectively make micromanagement easier, humans being the illogical creatures that we are would see it as more stress.

Disagreed. I do not stress about getting lunch appointments I don't have. If I have one at 12:00, I will exert mental effort to make sure I get there on time.

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

II. Daily Discounts. The Armorer, the Blacksmith, and the Pawn Shop. All drains on an adventurer's wallet. But what if they could be just a bit cheaper? Instead of spending 5000 on that Silver Sword, it only costs 4000? That's what I'm thinking - a 20% discount on specific pawns, buys, and repairs. Swords on Monday, Tomes on Tuesday, Axes on Wednesday, Bows on Thursday, Lances on Friday, and Staves on Saturday. As for Sunday? They're all closed! Everyone needs a day off, now and then. Speaking of which...

III. Free Healing on Sundays. Well, on Saturday night, technically. This would apply whether you're in the home castle, or landed on a church. Either way, on Sunday morning, your HP will be full, and it won't have cost a dime. A blessing of Bragi, perhaps? Or a nicety of Naga? Who's to say, really?

I like these ideas superficially, but on review they impose unnecessarily Christian ideas on the polytheistic Judgrali religion, in the end not being respectful to Christ or the setting or the Sabbath.

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I am here for anything that gives our boy Arden more love. Maybe "birthday month" could have other bonuses? Like, all weapon kills count for 2 stars, rather than 1, during that month? Or an additional skill, such as Paragon, taking effect. If a month is overkill, perhaps a week would be enough time.

Free crits on your birthday.

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I like these ideas superficially, but on review they impose unnecessarily Christian ideas on the polytheistic Judgrali religion, in the end not being respectful to Christ or the setting or the Sabbath.

What about a suitably Jugdralian 12 day week? (No joke, I earnestly want to decimalize our week system and implement a 10 day week system with three days of, one of which being non consecutive, leading towards a common work frame that is less intense but does not kill productivity).

[AnonymousSpeed]

Just now, Jotari said:

What about a suitably Jugdralian 12 day week? (No joke, I earnestly want to decimalize our week system and implement a 10 day week system with three days of, one of which being non consecutive, leading towards a common work frame that is less intense but does not kill productivity).

This is the kind of thing that brought about the French Revolution. I hope you do better than Lavoisier did.

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

This is the kind of thing that brought about the French Revolution. I hope you do better than Lavoisier did.

Indeed. Those glorious heroes who brought us the metric system, and probably did some other important historical stuff, I stopped reading after they failed to decimalize time.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

like these ideas superficially, but on review they impose unnecessarily Christian ideas on the polytheistic Judgrali religion, in the end not being respectful to Christ or the setting or the Sabbath.

Well, this is one of those tricky territories. Jugdral, like most of Fire Emblem, is heavily inspired by Medievel Europe. Which was, of course, predominantly Christian. While Christianity itself doesn't exist in the game, a lot of the religious elements (outside the doctrine itself) seem to take a heavy cue from Christianity. Were I being more specific, I'd say Roman Catholicism.

In any case "Churches" exist, the "Crusader" Bragi is revered as a "Saint", and "Father Claud" is a "High Priest"... I don't think it's an overt stretch to imagine that they would keep Sunday as a holy day. Albeit for some other rationale than real-world Christians use. Admittedly, though, Nintendo (of America, specifically) might shy away from any representation that cuts too close to real-world religious practices.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

What about a suitably Jugdralian 12 day week? (No joke, I earnestly want to decimalize our week system and implement a 10 day week system with three days of, one of which being non consecutive, leading towards a common work frame that is less intense but does not kill productivity).

See, I was thinking each Crusader would get their own month, rather than day-of-the-week. It would line up perfectly with the real world Gregorian calendar. And, maybe the Loptyr Cult could have their own timekeeping method, distinct from what those rebels came up with?

(A 12-day week concept isn't bad in a vacuum, but it might get confusing to handle. Either you get 12 months of two-and-a-half weeks (30 days) each, or 10 months of three weeks (36 days) each. Or else, the year's length is significantly diffefent from our world.

[AnonymousSpeed]

44 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

In any case "Churches" exist, the "Crusader" Bragi is revered as a "Saint", and "Father Claud" is a "High Priest"... I don't think it's an overt stretch to imagine that they would keep Sunday as a holy day. Albeit for some other rationale than real-world Christians use. Admittedly, though, Nintendo (of America, specifically) might shy away from any representation that cuts too close to real-world religious practices.

Yes, but an alternate translation could say "Mosques" exist, the "Jihadi" Bragi is revered as a "Wali", and "Sheikh Claud" is a "Grand Imam". The term "High Priest" itself is usually used for Jesus in Christendom, rather than a mortal authority within the church. These are terms which can be applied broadly to analogous but dissimilar ideas, whereas the Sunday Sabbath is specifically rooted in real-world doctrines. You don't go to Mosque on the weekend. You go on Friday.

If the alternative is making up your own calendar though, perhaps it would be best to bite the bullet and just pick a real-world day that "feels" right.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Well, this is one of those tricky territories. Jugdral, like most of Fire Emblem, is heavily inspired by Medievel Europe. Which was, of course, predominantly Christian. While Christianity itself doesn't exist in the game, a lot of the religious elements (outside the doctrine itself) seem to take a heavy cue from Christianity. Were I being more specific, I'd say Roman Catholicism.

In any case "Churches" exist, the "Crusader" Bragi is revered as a "Saint", and "Father Claud" is a "High Priest"... I don't think it's an overt stretch to imagine that they would keep Sunday as a holy day. Albeit for some other rationale than real-world Christians use. Admittedly, though, Nintendo (of America, specifically) might shy away from any representation that cuts too close to real-world religious practices.

Anon is right in saying Jugdral is polytheistic though. That's made pretty clear despite the light christian stylings. The Crusaders themselves are referred to as gods multiple times, very much in keeping with the Roman sense of literally deifying its favourtie Emperors. And given the timeline describes Grannvale's founding pretty much identically to Rome's, I don't think this is a coincidence. Even outside of the context of the crusaders, Leif talks about the purity of the water being blessed by the river Goddess Ethnia and Kaga's notes has stuff about the pagan beliefs of the people of Jugdral.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

See, I was thinking each Crusader would get their own month, rather than day-of-the-week. It would line up perfectly with the real world Gregorian calendar. And, maybe the Loptyr Cult could have their own timekeeping method, distinct from what those rebels came up with?

That's what I was going for with one crusader holiday each month.

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Yes, but an alternate translation could say "Mosques" exist, the "Jihadi" Bragi is revered as a "Wali", and "Sheikh Claud" is a "Grand Imam". The term "High Priest" itself is usually used for Jesus in Christendom, rather than a mortal authority within the church. These are terms which can be applied broadly to analogous but dissimilar ideas, whereas the Sunday Sabbath is specifically rooted in real-world doctrines. You don't go to Mosque on the weekend. You go on Friday.

If the alternative is making up your own calendar though, perhaps it would be best to bite the bullet and just pick a real-world day that "feels" right.

I don't think a seven day week with a day a rest is beyond the pale though. And if we're going for full flavour, we're almost certainly not going to call them Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday etc. Just like how Shadows of Valentia's months aren't January and stuff, they're Flotsam or something.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Yes, but an alternate translation could say "Mosques" exist, the "Jihadi" Bragi is revered as a "Wali", and "Sheikh Claud" is a "Grand Imam".

Ziguludo-chan-sama-senpai is indeed the best character in Fire Emblem: Descent of Jihad.

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

The term "High Priest" itself is usually used for Jesus in Christendom, rather than a mortal authority within the church.

Fair 'nuff, I was more thinking of terms like "Father" and "Priest", which to me, convey ersatz-Catholicism. ...But on the other hand, "Priest" has been used for female characters as well, which is a big no-no under the Pontiff, so.

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

These are terms which can be applied broadly to analogous but dissimilar ideas, whereas the Sunday Sabbath is specifically rooted in real-world doctrines. You don't go to Mosque on the weekend. You go on Friday.

True enough, but on some level... it's kinda arbitrary, isn't it? At least, within a fantasy realm. Like, say there is a religious "day of rest" in Jugdral. If we were using the Gregorian days of the week, then I think it would make the most sense to assign that day to Sunday. Given Jugdral being broadly inspired by Medievel Europe, where Christendom was dominant. Could we make it, say, Wednesday? Sure. But there wouldn't be any real rationale for doing so - at least, not that I can think of.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's what I was going for with one crusader holiday each month.

Fair play! I do think, perhaps, the holidays should last for more than a single day? Perhaps a full week where characters can benefit from it? Not sure if 7 turns is too much. But a single turn feels hyper-specific. Widening the frame would provide the player with more wiggle room, rather than making it a "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" effect.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Anon is right in saying Jugdral is polytheistic though. That's made pretty clear despite the light christian stylings. The Crusaders themselves are referred to as gods multiple times, very much in keeping with the Roman sense of literally deifying its favourtie Emperors.

Wait, are they? My understanding was, the Dragons who gave their power at the miracle of Darna (i.e. Naga, Forseti) were revered as gods. Whereas, the Crusaders were holy warriors - saints, perhaps - but not actually divine in their own right. Or did I miss something?

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

And if we're going for full flavour, we're almost certainly not going to call them Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday etc. Just like how Shadows of Valentia's months aren't January and stuff, they're Flotsam or something.

Ah yes, my favorite months: Flotsam, Jetsam, Bedlam, and Smarch.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wait, are they? My understanding was, the Dragons who gave their power at the miracle of Darna (i.e. Naga, Forseti) were revered as gods. Whereas, the Crusaders were holy warriors - saints, perhaps - but not actually divine in their own right. Or did I miss something?

Yeah, I'm not going to pore over the text of both games to see how many times (would be nice if Fire Emblem scripts were organized into a single document instead of divided by chapter >.>), but people are obviously praying to Blagi (though I suppose you could pray to a saint) and Saphy refers to War God Heim guiding her at one point.

[Acacia Sgt]

The designer's notes do have this to say:

In this world, those called heroes are frequently elevated to the level of lower class deities after their deaths; the high-ranking gods are eternal, the ones indicated by the primal religions as the world builders. By the way, the highest god is the sky deity called Yudu (or Gran), but these gods aren’t mentioned ingame. The Twelve Apostles are the newest group among the countless gods of this world, being the most vastly worshipped ones due to their activity in the holy war. They’re called guardian deities, military gods and other aliases.

 

[Jotari]

I did pore over script In the prologue the villagers talk about the Chalphys claiming descendent from Balder the god of light and Jungbys being descended from Ullr the god of archery, both of those are Crusaders (unless the dragons have the same names by coincidence). Fee later says the Sileesian royal family claims direct lineage from the Wind God Forseti, which is interesting because the crusader is Ced and the dragon is Forseti. I assume both the dragons and the crusaders are seen as gods, but by saying they are literal descendants of Forseti suggests the people kind of understand the blood pact...but then we get this quote in Chapter 4

Villager:
“Silesia’s Royal Family’s power is ‘Wind’ as is bestowed by Holsety, the God of Wind. The Velthomer’s power is ‘Fire’ as is bestowed upon them by Fala, the God of Fire. And the Freege’s power is ‘Thunder’ as is bestowed by Tordo, the God of Thunder.”

Where Forseti is mentioned in the same breath as Fjalar and Trud, and we know for a fact that Fjalar is the Crusader while Salamander is the Dragon...So it seems like all of the Crusaders are gods, except Ced. Maybe because the Forseti tome ends up possessing you the people of Silesse have a different view over the position of crusader and dragon, or maybe the original Ced just started calling himself Forseti later in life as a result of the possession.
The fact that they're all mentioned together though excludes the possibility that this is a translation creativity, the crusaders and one of the dragons are mentioned together with the same term.

Chapter 5, Alvis again calls himself a descendant of Fire God Fjalar.

Chapter 9, Finn says Altenna received the God Noba's lineage.

In the endgame only the dragons are referred to as gods giving their powers to the crusaders. And Salamander is also called the god of fire.

So, yeah, the Crusaders are consistently referred to with the term god, at least on the translation Serenes provides, even being gods of a specific aspect. And this is so ingrained that the dragon Forseti is mentioned in the same context as two of the crusaders. So, yeah, weird as it might be from our cultural perspective, they genuinely view these people they know are humans and had lives that died only a few dozen years ago as divine in nature, much like how the Romans deified their emperors and raised them to the status of gods. And now that I think on it, the very Christian idea of a Saint possibly might have arisen from this practice in Rome. And given that these crusaders did literally receive the power of beings thought of as gods, it's not entirely untrue that they have a divine aspect to them. We even get the implication that Bragi and Claud can influence the world from beyond the grave.

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The designer's notes do have this to say:

In this world, those called heroes are frequently elevated to the level of lower class deities after their deaths; the high-ranking gods are eternal, the ones indicated by the primal religions as the world builders. By the way, the highest god is the sky deity called Yudu (or Gran), but these gods aren’t mentioned ingame. The Twelve Apostles are the newest group among the countless gods of this world, being the most vastly worshipped ones due to their activity in the holy war. They’re called guardian deities, military gods and other aliases.

 

And, uh, yeah, that, the developers notes outright saying it.

 

Edited March 16 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

If I could equate the possible religious system that Jugdral uses, it'd be with the Greek one. Where you have a tier system in place (Yudu/Gran being the equivalent to Zeus and how coincidentally, or not, that both are sky gods), and that certain mortals or semi-mortals can get elevated to godhood after their deeds or something like that.

So, the Crusaders can be equated to the likes of, say, Asclepius. Asclepius is considered a minor god of medicine. He, being the son of Apollo, carried the blood of a god. Not too dissimilar to how the Crusaders have the blood of dragons. The myth goes that after he began resurrecting people (not unlike Genealogy!Braggi having his staff, huh, since Asclepius is also associated with a staff), Zeus killed him. But Apollo, angered at this, decided to immortalize Asclepius as the Ophiuchus constellation.

So yeah, this is pretty much how it seems to work in Jugdral. The Crusaders after their deaths began to be worshiped as gods. Minor gods, but gods nonetheless.

Edited March 16 by Acacia Sgt