Makaze Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Prims said: wait hold on why does makaze say he pleads the third. thats literally not a thing. you plead the fifth. bro is constantly thinking about thirds?.?>?>>? i got back up to post this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I'm at work so I won't have time for proper posts before this evening but uh yeah okay. Makaze said earlier that they don't expect to live to the end which sounded like a PR crumb (or incredible lack of self-awareness but it's a bit too much). I've already said my stance on Makaze and I recognize that they're the only player who can get away with this kind of nonsensical behaviour because we're expecting them to be whack, but I didn't want to lynch them today and now I definitely don't. I feel better on Snike, I think his efforts the last couple of pages has been good. I don't know what to make of Weapons. I'm not good at following the stream of consciousness and making comments as you read is not particularly alignment indicative, and eg. his Rapier case wasn't that good but he backtracks on it on a reread? But I agree more with his later posts. Gonna have to reread BBM and Shinori's votes on him. I guess I wouldn't mind consolidating on him over Marth and Makaze, but I think Refa is worse. I think their posts the entire game has been a lot of prodding and answering questions, but not so much pushing them on questions/answers they find off? Like they have comments, answers and prods on everyone but then their actual list of reads feels disjointed from the comments. I don't feel them actively pushing on their scum reads. The read on Rapier seems more negative but then votes Makaze which partly feels like sheeping (Prims). I would like to hear more from Elie, Cam and SB. Elie's first post is incomplete and Cam still haven't placed a vote. ##Vote: @Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I believe that I've got the vote ordering down. Automated Votecount Bluedoom (4): Makaze (198), Snike (34), Percivalé (16), Rapier (64) Refa (3): BT. (18), Prims (64), j00 (42) Makaze (3): Elieson (6), Sunwoo (76), Refa (46) WeaponsofMassConstruction (2): Shinori (110), BBM (48) Rapier (2): charlie_ (34), WeaponsofMassConstruction (70) charlie_ (1): Bluedoom (76) Not voting (1): CT075 (14) Spoiler @Bluedoom @j00 I keep reading that I’m active lurking, I think you should link posts where I’m not actively pressuring people or working on a read. It should be easy to do if you’re right and there’s no reason not too! @Rapier You never answered my question from before. Also I never voted Shinori nor have I even scumread Shinori (Snike mentioned this too, very confusing) so not sure where you’re getting that from. I feel like you’re not really reading my posts. What makes Elieson’s Makaze read stuck in RVS compared to your Makaze read? @Makaze I literally asked you the question right after said I don’t get it. That means I don’t understand the thought process and want an answer to determine if there’s scum intent or not. If I stop pushing someone or am satisfied with their responses, you should know where my read is at without me explicitly saying it. My problem with you is not your reads themselves but how you’re going about pursuing them. Its fine to gutread people but your interactions do not read like you pursuing those reads. Boron, I don’t like how all of your scumreads are because people lack presence. Im fine with your town/null reads but your actual pressure this game doesn’t feel genuine to me. Itd be one thing if you were struggling to get reads but Im not getting that impression from you. Had to do some soul searching here because I feel like most of j00s content has also been town/null reads but the actual scumreads themselves I can understand more. So I think that’s what differentiates a player who bothers me and a player who doesn’t. Here’s where my head is at the moment: -I’m feeling better about Bluedoom. Earlier it felt like all of his content was laser focused on a specific interaction and his other reads since then have been deece. -Cam’s one post was fine but I really don’t like the Makaze scumread into not voting Makaze -Makaze is sus. He has reads but he’s not pushing them or really meaningfully interacting besides explaining his reads. -Shinori I get the cases on but I am not reading scum intent there? It feels like his earlier actions are scummy but not his thought process. I like his Rapier case honestly. I probably have to reread Rapier because of it though so thanks for nothing Shinori. Wouldn’t vote. -I don’t think Snike is scum. The things people are calling him out for are things like three other people have done in this thread and everyone is fine with those. I’d like to know the difference between these reads and what makes Snike look worse. -I’m not bothered by Boron not voting me initially, I think that’s a weak point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iris Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 (edited) Iris™ Votals: Day 1.4 (~36 hours left) Bluedoom (4): Makaze, Percivale, Rapier, Snike Makaze (3): Elieson, Refa, Sunwoo Refa (3): BT., j00, Prims WeaponsofMassConstruction (2): BBM, Shinori charlie (1): Bluedoom Elieson (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction Rapier (1): charlie Not Voting (1): CT075 * Votals are listed by largest wagon and then alphabetically; votes are also listed alphabetically. You can see the full voting history below. DM me if there are any errors. The player with the most votes at the end of the Day phase will be Eliminated! With 16 alive, it takes 6 votes minimum to Eliminate a player and 10 votes to Hammer the phase early! Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on May 28th. As a FYI, I will probably be manual votaling throuhg the end of Day 1 (to preserve accurate voting history/not penalize everyone for not being used to this sytem), but will look to use the script during future phases. Please continue to vote in the proper format. Sorry, I know our forum software sucks. VOTING HISTORY - Day 1 Page 2: Rapier votes for Prims Snike votes for Rapier Sunwoo votes for Snike Shinori votes for Elieson Prims votes for Snike Refa votes for Makaze Prims votes for Shinori Page 3: BBM votes for Makaze Makaze votes for BBM Page 4: WeaponsofMassConstruction votes for Prims Shinori votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction Rapier votes for Makaze Sunwoo votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction Page 5: Shinori votes for Elieson Bluedoom votes for Refa Rapier votes for BBM Page 6: WeaponsofMassConstruction votes for Sunwoo Rapier votes for Bluedoom Page 7: Refa votes for Sunwoo Bluedoom votes for Sunwoo Sunwoo votes for Refa Page 8: BBM votes for Prims Page 9: Makaze votes for Bluedoom Shinori votes for Prims Page 10: Snike votes for Bluedoom charlie votes for Shinori Prims votes for Snike BBM votes for Snike Shinori votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction Page 11: Percivale votes for Bluedoom j00 votes for Refa Page 12: Elieson votes for Makaze Page 13: Sunwoo votes for Makaze Bluedoom unvotes Page 14: charlie votes for Rapier Page 15: BT. votes for Refa j00 votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction Page 16: WeaponsofMassConstruction votes Rapier Prims votes Makaze Page 17: BBM votes WeaponsofMassConstruction Page 18: Bluedoom votes charlie Refa votes Makaze Page 19: WeaponsofMassConstruction votes Elieson Prims votes for Refa Page 20: j00 votes for Refa Edited May 27 by Iris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 7 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: Elie I feel like had the weakest thread entry. Yeah more posts though before worth wagoning I didn't notice that Weapons was voting Elie before I saw the votals, but what happened to this line of thought? Is it a prod vote or do uou think Elie is the scummiest so far based on that single post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 30 minutes ago, j00 said: I'm at work so I won't have time for proper posts before this evening but uh yeah okay. Makaze said earlier that they don't expect to live to the end which sounded like a PR crumb (or incredible lack of self-awareness but it's a bit too much). I've already said my stance on Makaze and I recognize that they're the only player who can get away with this kind of nonsensical behaviour because we're expecting them to be whack, but I didn't want to lynch them today and now I definitely don't. I feel better on Snike, I think his efforts the last couple of pages has been good. I don't know what to make of Weapons. I'm not good at following the stream of consciousness and making comments as you read is not particularly alignment indicative, and eg. his Rapier case wasn't that good but he backtracks on it on a reread? But I agree more with his later posts. Gonna have to reread BBM and Shinori's votes on him. I guess I wouldn't mind consolidating on him over Marth and Makaze, but I think Refa is worse. I think their posts the entire game has been a lot of prodding and answering questions, but not so much pushing them on questions/answers they find off? Like they have comments, answers and prods on everyone but then their actual list of reads feels disjointed from the comments. I don't feel them actively pushing on their scum reads. The read on Rapier seems more negative but then votes Makaze which partly feels like sheeping (Prims). I would like to hear more from Elie, Cam and SB. Elie's first post is incomplete and Cam still haven't placed a vote. ##Vote: @Refa I always say that since it's a valid strategy whether I am a PR or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Yea would also like to hear Percy's updated thoughts, almost forgot they were playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 @Makaze Why? And you're asking why people aren't taking your posts seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Makaze said: It will not be possible to eliminate me today At this rate I'm just gonna assume this is bullshit too then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, j00 said: @Makaze Why? And you're asking why people aren't taking your posts seriously As mafia I want the town to let me live another day, as VT I want the mafia to think I'm a PR, and as a PR I tend to not say it as loudly, or say it even louder so that it looks like I'm acting like the VT I play like I could die at any time because that's the reality and I'd rather create a sense of urgency and leave a strong legacy than make my death meaningless and an night kill to avoid information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, Makaze said: I'd rather create a sense of urgency and leave a strong legacy than make my death meaningless and an night kill to avoid information Why not, you know, play to your wincon instead of yelling wolf wolf all the time until town ignores you or you become a D1 policywagon???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Just now, j00 said: Why not, you know, play to your wincon instead of yelling wolf wolf all the time until town ignores you or you become a D1 policywagon???????? what is the secret to holding it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 chat do you ever fall asleep in your seat for six hours there seems to be an aversion to longer posts but I don't think there's much avoiding my catchup posts being long. sorry in advance (I also don't really like spoilering long threads of content. for some reason it's harder for me to read them like that. so yeah sorry) (this is not me being passive-aggressive or anything if you spoiler your long posts that's ok you can do that I luv u) @Snike my statement about it being easier to state directly that you are town when you're town was not intended to be a surefire indicator that someone is town, it's just a psychological thing I noticed/purely based off anecdote and was using it as an earlygame way to gather reads. those are long outdated by now again I know I said I was gonna try not to go off meta but I do think it's worth noting I recall elie being HARDCORE lurker when he's scum. he and eury were the two big players I felt like I knew their scum meta pretty well. so more posts from him would be nice because I have seen him floating around. but he could just be busy IDK food for thought I guess. I think makaze is town & have held this opinion since game start reiterating for convenience sake that I am aware my bluedoom vote wasn't very good, I was only halfway through the thread at the time I dropped it my reasoning behind it was that his first post was bad. he came in at a time people were starting to form opinions based on more than jokeposts just to say "I'm here but have no opinions" and even worse "everyone else is saying these things are NAI and it's making me think that so I have nothing." I think it would have felt better if he at least listed a couple of things specifically that he wanted to read as scummy but hesitant to cuz other people were dismissing them. THREAD READ pages 5-10 having trouble reading shinori. I've read bits and pieces of pages 10-20 and he has since stopped doing this so it's not relevant now, but earlier I noticed a lot of game theory speculation which read to me like scum padding/emulating content... his playstyle lately though is throwing me off (as in the aggressiveness/self-defensiveness of it makes me think maybe he's town) these all could be just symptoms of playing offsite games recently but I'll get back to this refa prodding makaze the way they were doing & their statement on it (quote) Quote It's mostly his thought process confuses me. It doesn't seem internally consistent, which is what's bothering me. Why does Weapons' post have no weight when it's doing the exact same thing as he is doing? I think him having different reads on people voting him (me, BBM VS Rapier) is good, but...Hmmm...I don't know how to word it. It's the difference between organically having reads and coming up with reads. That's why I'm asking him about this stuff. gives me scum vibes idk otherwise how to explain it could be that I've been reading makaze town all game but it reads like treading eggshells / appearing to be working on their player reads without committing too hard boron null read, BBM is giving me Vibes but I have nothing on that lol. it's not because he had a low presence at this point in the game I'm not scum reading weapons anymore shinori defensiveness is wh23w MY CAT is making focusing on the thread really hard it's our usual cuddle time so she wants me in bed right now and throwing a huge tantrum, gonna do the rest of this on mobile just gonna post this as is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Game is weird. I'm not a fan of most of the top wagons at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 shinori defensiveness reads like town defensiveness. it's the one big thing about him that makes me think he could be town. I did notice people already had him in their PoE by page 6 and the frustration feels organic. I think he's just been really hard to read. I've been flip flopping on him a lot prims voring makaze for early SK hunting didn't read scum to me because were I not already reading makaze town I probably would have done the same thing, it's a pretty valid earlygame reason to have for voting somebody. (the way they've pursued their makaze case later today makes me feel good about them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 ##Unvote (I was voting bluedoom idk if I'm supposed to ping this) guys I'm sorry but I'm so tired. I didn't expect to fall asleep sitting down but i haven't been sleeping much. I'm gonna sleep 6 more hours and I'll make time to get back to this before day end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 ##Unvote: @Bluedoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I gotta go again for a couple hours but I spent time comparing Refa's post on page 18 to his reads post on page 13(14?). I guess thinking about this more the issues I have with SB should be similar to refa...interestingly I can buy Makaze as a scum read that's evolved as a progression from page 14, but hm. I didn't see much of a read on Rapier in the page 14 list so I think he should answer Prims' question about how his read on Shinori and the Rapier/Shinori interaction influences his read on Rapier. Also I think I mindmeld with the Eli/Cam reads (personally I think Eli should be vigged here) so...yeah I'd consolidate on a Cam lynch but it does feel hard to put him as a top scumread. @Refa This is going to be similar to what I asked SB but, assuming that in a 17p game the numbers are either 12/4/1 or 12/5. Let's say you're right about Rapier/Makaze. Where would you look for the other 3 anti town, and why? I am factoring in the town reads that you have in your reads list while asking this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 i don't really understand why people aren't feeling the weapons lynch anymore. I would agree that I think his posts have been better since I voted him but like... as scum it's easy to make good posts about why people are town. it's much harder to have good reasons for why people are scum and it's so easy to just default to the guy with one post* cuz you have nothing better. the one person he voted he backtracked on and then the only other person is prims where he's just using words like "austere" and still not committing to it more than a lurker vote I also just don't understand how town!weapons could have gotten to a point of townreading everyone. i think it's been hard to find really strong scumreads in this game, but also I find there's a huge number of people who are just sort of in the middle. there's good poe and there's bad poe and just going "eh everyone who's active looks fine" is bad poe i didn't have too much of a refa opinion until his most recent post. i dont have time to fully reread him atm but i didn't really like the makaze vote. @Refa tunneling is bad, but is it as bad if makaze's case is actually good like you said his case against me was? the cam bit is a lot of waffling to put someone in scum at the end of it. what did you actually think about the content of what cam said? what's the difference between the people not on this list vs the null people on this list? 6 minutes ago, Bluedoom said: @Refa This is going to be similar to what I asked SB but, assuming that in a 17p game the numbers are either 12/4/1 or 12/5. Let's say you're right about Rapier/Makaze. Where would you look for the other 3 anti town, and why? I am factoring in the town reads that you have in your reads list while asking this question. lol I had to double check to confirm I wasn't the one who misread but it's a 16p game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 @BBM I'm not familiar with Weapons meta, but do you see scum!Weapons as having this wishy washy reads on everyone to finish with a vote on Elie, on all people? It's not good but also... an overly weak and notable vote for an experienced player? There are enough sheepable wagons for low effort scum to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 9 hours ago, BBM said: ok i think I'm feeling this as my current strongest read over snike and rapier. ##Unvote, ##Vote: @WeaponsofMassConstruction i think his current rapier vote is fine cuz like I said I do see his point but I just don't feel Weapons's other content and something about the way he structured the post (first sheeping sb about rapier, then saying some other stuff about j00 in the middle I don't understand, and then back to rapier) feels not like genuine stream of consciousness. would like answers to the questions I asked in my earlier post whenever you're around I think rapier's last few posts were bad because he no longer scumreads his current vote but didn't unvote and said he didn't like some stuff by weapons and makaze but didn't really commit to either, and just said stuff like "i'll have to read other people". but for all that I find objectionable about it and previous stuff my gut just isn't here. the tone just feels more right than weapons's. @Rapier can you explain your makaze read a bit more specifically? i can't understand if you find him scummy or town playing badly More on Marth later in this post. I think it'd make more sense for you to vote me instead, since we had around 36 hours left when you made this post and you could've pressed me for content, but instead you voted for someone you feel is scummy (although I understand and agree with your reasons on Weapons). You often vote for people who you want to press (at least in this game, you have), and you chose not to press Weapons there, so it feels like a consolidated early lynch vote more than anything. Instead, Weapons is being voted and I'm being pressed. That said, BBM didn't join an easy wagon on Marth when he could have, instead outing players in it as potentially scummy (although stating not all of them would be) and defending Marth from the accusations. My read on Makaze remains roughly the same, but obviously RVS reads tend to get weaker as D1 progresses. I wouldn't lynch him just for being all over the place, excessive alignment speculation or making cases where his gut conclusions are used to justify the premises and not the opposite (as he did in your case), which was a fine reason to vote on RVS/early D1 but on mid D1 got weaker. It frankly feels like what little I remember of Makaze and I'd think it's "town playing badly", since it gives him way too much flak as scum and he wouldn't really need to be all over the place, insisting & double betting on the same reasoning that got him pinned to the wall. 9 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: - As a gut reads based player I like completely get where Makaze is coming from, so everything he says makes perfect sense (esp the observer thing). someone understands makaze burn the witch 9 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: - Honestly I could read Rapier's recent posts before this last page. And also there was one post where he explicitly said he was doubtful on my slot, so lol. @Rapier when you push a case, do you have doubts about your read but push through anyway, or are you pretty sure and don't think about it too much (or a secret third thing) I don't think we have good enough reads for pushing cases against someone we're sure is scum right on RVS/early D1. What I've done so far was push people for answers and interactions, although back then the players I voted were as close to scum as early D1 reads could be, which isn't that strong but is a start. I kept my vote on Marth because I didn't like his "axe first, ask questions later" response to when I asked him why he chose to vote someone else instead of his main scum read (which back then was Refa), then roughly a page later he chose to switch his vote to Sunwoo close to a time when Refa also voted her, using the same reasoning he had for Refa but instead commiting to his vote this time. It gave me strange buddying vibes that I'm still not positive about. I also don't remember him pursuing Refa further since then and iirc his reads on him improved afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 9 hours ago, Bluedoom said: - On that note my own gripes with Makaze are that he's admitting that he's trying to convince people of his reads but failing miserably. My main thing about makaze thinking of his personality is as town he'd think that he's obvious and his results will show, part of his ego will show vs scum where he knows that he needs to manipulate people and pocket them so he doesn't try to go as much against the grain and might even try to appease people, I'm p sure he tried that on me the last time we played. I haven't seen anyone engage me on this and I think this is a good talking point, because this is one thing I'm unsure about. I assume you're comparing their play here against IDNSFMM5? Tbh I think the circumstances are too different to compare this to like, The Thunderdome from that game - mostly that BBM is ignoring it unlike Yolo, and it's way earlier in the game. I will say that their reads feel kinda ineffectual in that I don't think anyone is really following most of them (except for the votes on you?) which is a bit weird? Culture clash is a thing but it does feel low impact for the amount they have posted. I don't know where you got that I townread Boron from btw because I have repeatedly said she's null to me in previous posts. rn I am actually kind on the slot because the mention of Prims being gone feels kinda arbitrary. Prims isn't the only low activity person and Boron's previous posts had her townreading Prims, so I don't really get the sudden surge of paranoia there when they haven't actually found anything disagreeable about their content? Her Makaze vote is fine (and I guess the justification for the switch off of Refa makes sense) but I'm not in love with it or anything. Rapier ignored my vote whyyyy. I don't feel any better about them from their recent posts, aside from saying Marth + Boron reading as same alignment (which is buddying Shinori again) I don't think they've said anything more and I'm not sure who they would be voting if they switched off which is like, not great. Still not interested in Weapons, I would like to see them come back for longer but their first pos last night felt like they were just trying to get their thoughts out without a ton of time and they managed more substantial content a bit later so it just seems real. I guess with j00 switching off he is not really in any danger of actually getting lynched through. Would consolidate on Refa, I don't have a strong read here but it feels like they mostly show up with okay content but aren't ever around to elaborate and mostly play catchup which is vaguely how I remember demotivated scum!Refa being. Need to see more like, prolonged engagements with anyone from them. I have more to post but this is getting way too long and also I see Rapier has just cut me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I didn't really get what I was looking for there. @Rapier Where is your Shinori read currently, and if you weren't voting for Marth right now, who would you be voting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 9 hours ago, Bluedoom said: So where my head's at, I think if you are mafia you are in a good position to case rapier here. I can agree that Rapier criticising Shinori's rebuttal of you and then saying that the content changed his view of Shinori isn't logically consistent, but I don't think its very alignment indicative either. My main thing about your rapier vote is that in the second quote Rapier admits that he didn't read the back and forth between you and Shinori very well, which means its conceivable that upon reread he changed his mind, I don't think the change is that suspicious. If anything the second quote admits that whatever was in the first quote was wrong, but I don't find the switch to be far fetched here. That said, talk to me more about about your Rapier read, because I'm less interested in the logical inconsistencies that he's making and more interested in what scum-motivated actions that he's taking. Isn't inconsistent casing just like. A thing mafia do because they need to push their agenda? Especially if they're struggling to make headway with other cases which is what Rapier feels like to me here. Logical inconsistency isn't a slam dunk or anything but seemingly forgetting your own opinions is messier and his continued vote on you is kinda iffy to me. Early on it was fine, but I don't think it's been well substantiated enough for it to last this long and idk where they would be jumping off if they did change their vote which is a weird combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Quadruple posting because I realised I forgot to respond to this, WHOOPS. 8 hours ago, Refa said: @charlie_ Is whiplash scummy though? I can buy it coming from scum, but I don't think it's alignment indicative. It can be? If someone's posts/suspicions give me whiplash I'll wanna look into them more and see if its a recurring thing because constantly flipping all your opinions is bad, but I haven't gotten a bad vibe off of Marth's posting since - they seem pretty chilled about all the votes on them and their pushes are more against the grain of the thread than they need to be when they're in that position as mafia. I think Marth asked about townreads but the others (that I haven't substantiated in the last few posts) are like: - j00 just posts good even though they're kind of in and out of the thread, I don't feel their opinions are too forced and they're kind of in the sweet spot of consistent/changeable in that I can follow what they're thinking pretty easily. - Prims ED1 was good and I haven't had problems with them since or anything. The page 18 conversation with Marth also felt like town vs town solvey. - Snike reads town for his response to the Prims casing. I feel like risking escalating an argument there was needlessly risky, although I can't super remember his recent posts tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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