(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins! - Post Game is up!

[Bluedoom]

That said, I think I'm done for today, I'll probably be on to read what's going on for the next hour but I'm too tired to really do the thinking right now.

[Rapier]

7 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Question to thread, is Makaze actually a role that can't be lynched D1 or a bullshitter? And if you think he's scum, would you be willing to lynch him D1 even if he might be lynchproof?

Weapons Rapier case and the way he backed off it just didn't feel very good to me, it kind of felt like he was going after someone he felt was "caseable" and then dropped it when he couldn't defend it any longer, and ... well, voting Elie sure is a choice when he's been barely around. Would vote, would consolidate.

I called out Prims's earlier lack of presence specifically because I'm used to Prims being generally more active early on, and because most of the other people who were gone had explicitly given reasons for being sparse so I didn't expect them to be around.

I think it would've made more sense for him to claim he's lynchproof if that's the case, so we don't waste a D1 lynch. I don't think this role discussion is productive rn tbh, could go both ways and Makaze has implied about leaving a standing legacy that could also be a joker role reference (or whichever role it is that wins when they're lynched).

I feel that Weapons dropped my case too early as soon as he got flak for it. He could've reread me (and he said he would, but I assume he didn't find anything much) and made up a reason to stay on the wagon, but instead he voted for someone who has been barely here & who has very few interactions with others. Seems far too self-conscious.

Honestly don't feel like Prims giving out less content means anything on his alignment, unless there's a meta where Prims posts less as scum. That's also what I think about Refa, although I don't have a consolidated opinion on his content yet. So far I think Prims's posts, while few, have been contributing to the discussion, and I see nothing wrong with his points.

Just now, Bluedoom said:

 So that's in response to the idea of Elie being a possible lynch; I think lynching Elie is a waste because that's a slot with one post, so it isn't valuable to flip for associative reads especially since people, whether its bad town or scum, will be harping on that as their contribution for the day. Easier to resolve the slot and discussion via a vig.

Tbh the entire day I haven't felt like Boron's content has changed my mind much on her slot, but the reason I decided not to pursue that today is that I didn't want to get clouded by tunnel vision, and I hadn't spent some time thinking about other people in the game. I definitely don't think there's enough to change my read, or honestly anyone who has scumread her, from scumread to townread. Like Weapons' reasoning is "well she's acting like how she was doing in ED1 so I'm ok with it" which is like... how do I buy that?

I agree on those reasons for why it's bad to lynch Elie (or even vote for him, because we have way more people on the highlight and more present content to analyze), and none of the cases seem that strong for scum!Ellie and just seem like people wanting to draw more content from him instead. Wouldn't even discuss about spending a vig on him and the same reasons for not lynching him apply to him getting "vigged" imo.

also ##Unvote: Bluedoom since I messed up with the format

7 minutes ago, Refa said:

 -It's more the other way with Shinori. Because I feel good about Shinori, I don't feel bad about following their Rapier read.

-The other nullreads I listed were either because I had an actual read going on there that could change. Everyone else not listed I barely had a read on, so I didn't bother.

What about my reads feels disconnected? I've engaged with all of my scumreads so far.

I feel stronger about Makaze because they've been actively engaging more than I do Rapier.

That's easy, I'd look at the people who townread Rapier earlier on but ignored him later on in the game, or just people who have slept on a townread of him without updating it. Makaze I think I'd look at people who refused to engage with him, it seems like an easy pass for scum to do.

What do you think about Weapons' Rapier read? Where are you getting townreading everyone from?

You misunderstand. I thought his initial case is good, but his followups were bad. I don't think I'm waffling on Cam at all. His content reads well but the fact that he's not pursuing his scumreads is bothering me. I mentioned the difference above in my response to Prims.

@Rapier Who are you scumreading and why?

 

How isn't Cam pursuing his scumreads? He did lay a vote later after justification, but then he didn't show up again, so I think this is more because he has less posts overall than not pursuing scumreads.

Also doesn't make much sense to me how you read me better just because Shinori is reading me better, despite me being one of your scumreads (from what I recall, please correct me otherwise).

Even if you find Shinori town, his judgment could be wrong and you didn't give out any reasons for why you agree with him. I recall this is the second time Refa goes with Shinori's opinion without elaborating much further, first time being when I first voted Shinori for the "90% joking and 10% defending himself" accusations during early D1. I don't like how convenient and sidewaved this is.

As for my reads, so far I find Prims sliding towards town, neutral about Sunwoo but sliding more towards town.

I think Marth has done a decent job on contributing to the discussion after my vote and while I still find his switch convenient and his avoidance to vote Refa back then weird, his latter actions make me feel neutral about him.

Makaze generates too much noise and his antics don't make much sense to me as scum, but again it's too confusing to get a proper read on him. Probably the lowest guy on my lynch priority so far.

I like BBM's contributions but I feel that his choice for Weapons when he had the most votes felt convenient, especially since he based it off his feels while his reasons to dislike my content feel more objective and justified, and his reasons to sidewave me were based on how he felt, so it seems like a convenient excuse.

I think people are overreacting on Elie and I think voting or painting him as suspicious for one or three posts he's made in the entire game is a way to fake contribution when we have way more relevant content and interactions in our faces. Elie definitely needs to get back here, but all the suspicions on him feel like overreactions. Weapons' vote on him seems convenient.

-------

The one I'm most comfortable about lynching so far is Weapons, both regarding the associations we'd get from his flips and because of his content. I think I've spoke twice in this page why I feel it's bad so I think I'm just bloating my posts at this point, but feel free to question me if this springs any doubts.

##Vote @WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Refa]

5 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

Well if you check the votals in that page I was the sole big wagon at that time and I think butting heads with me and locking herself into that vote wouldn't be good for her. After that the options are Snike or Makaze so that doesn't seem so far fetched from a scum play perspective.

Like yes I think that can come from town disengaging to pursue new leads but there's nothing that screams out to me like I need to take a 180 there.

I'd have to reread the rapier progression because at first glance I thought that being wrong about rapier having no doubt was a backpedal but I think the stronger indicator for me was his Elie vote because...I don't think I've ever seen scum go "I have too many townreads and idk what to do so I'm going to vote the guy with one post in the game."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it then. What did you think about the posts I liked?

I can get the Rapier thing because Rapier looked good early and fell off for me (Jeigan syndrome) later on. Weapons voted Elie?

Re:Rapier- Did Weapons get flak for his Rapier case? I thought most people didn't have an issue with it. For Cam, he has scumreads, but he's not really voting them or pressing them. Yeah, it could come from him just not posting too much, which is why he's a weaker scumread. No, I said I agreed with Shinori's scumread on you, not that it makes me feel better about you. I'm not agreeing with him because he's Shinori, I'm agreeing with the logic behind the scumread. That first time thing never happened, I did not side with Shinori when you made that comment Early D1. This is like the third time it reads as you not actually reading what I've done. What do you think about voting Weapons when you complained about BBM's vote being convenient on him? What makes BBM's vote bad and your vote good?

[Makaze]

Are any of the scum inactive?

[CT075]

(I'm writing a real post, but I wanted to get this in)

How would we know?

[Makaze]

Just now, CT075 said:

(I'm writing a real post, but I wanted to get this in)

How would we know?

I'm asking for opinions and seeing if anyone has a gamestate read (all of the scum at the same level of activity is unlikely, all of the scum are active actually, something like that)

[Makaze]

Automated Votecount

Refa (4): BT. (13), Prims (34), j00 (28), Bluedoom (49)
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): Shinori (57), BBM (26), Rapier (36)
Makaze (3): Elieson (3), Sunwoo (39), Refa (27)
Rapier (2): charlie_ (23), WeaponsofMassConstruction (35)
Bluedoom (2): Makaze (107), Snike (17)
Not voting (2): Percivalé (12), CT075 (8)

Spoiler

VOTING HISTORY

Page 2:
#28: Rapier voted for Prims
#29: Rapier voted for Prims
#32: Snike voted for Rapier
#36: Sunwoo voted for Snike
#41: Shinori voted for Elieson
#47: Refa voted for Makaze
#49: Prims voted for Shinori

Page 3:
#56: BBM voted for Makaze
#62: Makaze voted for BBM

Page 4:
#78: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Prims
#80: Shinori voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction
#82: Rapier voted for Makaze
#90: Sunwoo voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 5:
#109: Shinori voted for Elieson
#120: Bluedoom voted for Refa
#123: Rapier voted for BBM

Page 6:
#127: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Sunwoo
#135: Rapier voted for Bluedoom

Page 7:
#161: Refa voted for Sunwoo
#171: Bluedoom voted for Sunwoo
#173: Sunwoo voted for Refa

Page 8:
#182: BBM voted for Prims
#192: Makaze voted for BBM

Page 9:
#222: Makaze voted for Bluedoom
#223: Shinori voted for Prims

Page 10:
#230: Snike voted for Bluedoom
#234: charlie_ voted for Shinori
#245: Prims voted for Snike
#248: BBM voted for Snike
#250: Shinori voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 11:
#251: Percivalé voted for Bluedoom
#263: j00 voted for Refa
#266: Rapier voted for Bluedoom

Page 12:
#289: Elieson voted for Makaze

Page 13:
#312: Sunwoo voted for Makaze

Page 14:
#349: charlie_ voted for Rapier

Page 15:
#365: j00 voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 16:
#387: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Rapier
#391: Prims voted for Makaze

Page 17:
#424: BBM voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 18:
#441: Bluedoom voted for charlie_
#448: Refa voted for Makaze

Page 19:
#462: BT. voted for Refa
#470: Prims voted for Refa

Page 20:
#477: j00 voted for Refa
#492: Percivalé unvoted

Page 21:
#506: Bluedoom voted for Refa

Page 22:
#527: Rapier voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Makaze]

I have a feeling that Weapons is being set up for a bad play based town-led CFD elimination while the mafia sit back and vote off wagon watch it happen

[Snike]

Hi, popping in mainly to say I'm not going to be around too much today. Woke up and my head was splitting,  and I  have to work.

Will mention a couple of things:

@RefaI was talking about the opening of the game, which was what made me worry about Rapier initially before settling into the town read. It sounds like people didn't see an issue with it from what I can keep in my head.

On j00: I don't think I'd seriously case there today, but the things that kinda irked me was calling my post a 'reads list', either ignoring or not reading my argument against that perception in a follow-up post (no acknowledgement is my point the label didn't change), then moving the representation of my argument to 'tunnelling',  the last of which I believe I mentioned BBM saying around the same time. So I'm irritated but am only looking at a temp check over here.

Re: Makaze: The softclaim feels pretty early as we're over a day away from deadline. That said, we should never ever be testing this today.

On wagons: Aside from my preferred elim, I'd definitely prefer Weapons over Elieson, because as multiple people have stated Elieson has a total of 1 content post. There isn't as much value in elimming there today aside from looking at opportunists as the slot's not up-to-date. If we were looking at low contributors, Cam would almost be better for having multiple content posts without a vote, but as I'm finishing this up I saw the 'making a post' post,  so that will be subject to change. Would not want Refa today.

Re: Inactive scum: There's a chance but it's too early to say, especially since this is already an ordeal of a Day 1 by SF standards.

Finally, to  Marth: I saw your posts and I will get around to responding when I am feeling better. Don't you worry.

Addendum on Elieson: If this was a later date, then yes I would be for the elim because I would not want that slot making it to critical days.  However, this is Day 1, so I think it's too early for policy.

OK, that's all from me right now.  The soapbox is all yours.

[Makaze]

Just now, Snike said:

Hi, popping in mainly to say I'm not going to be around too much today. Woke up and my head was splitting,  and I  have to work.

Will mention a couple of things:

@RefaI was talking about the opening of the game, which was what made me worry about Rapier initially before settling into the town read. It sounds like people didn't see an issue with it from what I can keep in my head.

On j00: I don't think I'd seriously case there today, but the things that kinda irked me was calling my post a 'reads list', either ignoring or not reading my argument against that perception in a follow-up post (no acknowledgement is my point the label didn't change), then moving the representation of my argument to 'tunnelling',  the last of which I believe I mentioned BBM saying around the same time. So I'm irritated but am only looking at a temp check over here.

Re: Makaze: The softclaim feels pretty early as we're over a day away from deadline. That said, we should never ever be testing this today.

On wagons: Aside from my preferred elim, I'd definitely prefer Weapons over Elieson, because as multiple people have stated Elieson has a total of 1 content post. There isn't as much value in elimming there today aside from looking at opportunists as the slot's not up-to-date. If we were looking at low contributors, Cam would almost be better for having multiple content posts without a vote, but as I'm finishing this up I saw the 'making a post' post,  so that will be subject to change. Would not want Refa today.

Re: Inactive scum: There's a chance but it's too early to say, especially since this is already an ordeal of a Day 1 by SF standards.

Finally, to  Marth: I saw your posts and I will get around to responding when I am feeling better. Don't you worry.

Addendum on Elieson: If this was a later date, then yes I would be for the elim because I would not want that slot making it to critical days.  However, this is Day 1, so I think it's too early for policy.

OK, that's all from me right now.  The soapbox is all yours.

Do you still want to elim Bluedoom today?

[Snike]

Just now, Makaze said:

Do you still want to elim Bluedoom today?

Knee jerk reaction is yes that's my preferred, I don't like how my words and actions have been framed and I noticed the same thing happening to other players (Boron being called hypocritical is the example I'd point to). Call it defensiveness, call it a tunnel, I have  not felt good about the slot all day.

[CT075]

(just a heads up, I have been unexpectedly delayed by a few hours, so please don't sit on the edge of your seat waiting for my fabled Third Content Post)

[Rapier]

@Bluedoom why are you voting Refa, again?

[Makaze]

44 minutes ago, Snike said:

Knee jerk reaction is yes that's my preferred, I don't like how my words and actions have been framed and I noticed the same thing happening to other players (Boron being called hypocritical is the example I'd point to). Call it defensiveness, call it a tunnel, I have  not felt good about the slot all day.

This post feels good to me

[Shinori]

2 hours ago, Rapier said:

Shinori has posted so much since then that I don't think it's fair to uphold the same argument that applied more to RVS and early D1 phases. I'd need to reread him. So far I'm neutral and I don't think my previous reasons hold any strength anymore.

I have posted drastically less since then, I'm so very confused.

I've actively done less, yet some peoples thoughts on me have improved which is just so weird.

[Sunwoo]

Sort of back, but I'll be less active today because I have some things I need to work on IRL. I'll still be checking the thread every once in a while, so feel free to ask me things.

I just feel very meh overall about Marth's slot. I don't really get a town lean from him but I'm not feeling scum the same way I do for other players. The SB-to-Refa vote is ... well, if I understand it correctly it's because he misattributed something Refa said to SB. But is SB still a scum read in anyway or no?

My biggest issue is his tunneling on me. It's just gives me the feeling of someone who's made up their minds and instead of actively trying to reevaluate their reads is just coming up with reasons as to why this thing I did is still scummy. That said, I actually don't really see it as scummy but it reads like a Marth thing. If I recall correctly, kirsche also played like this often. I do find it annoying even if not scummy though, so it's hard for me to form an objective read here. I wouldn't vote him personally and he's not my top D1 lynch choice, but I also wouldn't be upset if people consolidated on him.

SB just doesn't really stand out in my mind. I can't explain it, but I'm having a hard time remembering their stance on people and their reasonings. This could be on me, this could be the result of not playing mafia for like half a decade, but it kind of fucks me up that I'm reading SB as unmemorable. I could try reading them again later, but ugh. SB, I don't know if I missed it or something but how do you feel about Shinori now

Not interested in going after Elie and Cam as of now (unless they show up and do something lynchworthy), would advocate a hypothetical vig shot though. I'm trying to cut Percivale some slack because he's trying and stated outright he was busy.

 

[Percivalé]

hey guys how many hours are left in D1? I just woke up n I'm skimming the thread & admittedly I'm kinda overwhelmed lol, I don't want to sub out though. I have some more time today but I will still be out most of the day

[Percivalé]

I'm not sure I want to elim weapons anymore However I'd be interested in seeing his alignment flip for the sake of analyzing his wagon because like I said earlier if he's town I think scum was on his case early in the game. I'm okay with elimming refa because of the content of theirs I've read I've been like "I think this is scum," last night while I was reading my eyes were so glazed over I'd been reading posts without seeing who the post author was and would be like "this is a scum post" then check back and it was refa who posted it. but they're the highest wagon already and I'm not sure if that means I'm right or not

[Makaze]

Tuesday May 28 at 8:00 PM EDT

About 24 hours

[Shinori]

10 minutes ago, Percivalé said:

I'm not sure I want to elim weapons anymore However I'd be interested in seeing his alignment flip for the sake of analyzing his wagon because like I said earlier if he's town I think scum was on his case early in the game.

I'm not particularly fine with this train of thought.  I don't like it.  If you think Weapons is town why would you want them flipped any for any reason?  You could probably just break apart the people that voted them with a proper enough ISO and gain traction off of that.  Hell my vote is weak as a lot of people said.

Bolded also implies you were down to elim them previously, but then the second bolded part implies you thought this wagon was scum-fueled or had scum-intent behind it which is kind of backwards.  If you thought they were scum previously, then why would you think scum was pushing their wagon up to be voted?  And if there was scum doing that, then who exactly is the person that did?

This post kind of reads TMI to me, as if they feel they know Weapons flips town and wants to try and set up lynches based on it in the future.

##Vote: @Percivalé

[Percivalé]

???????? I said this earlier too were you not fine with it then? I said I thought he was an easy early scum wagon lol. I don't want to elim him personally

[Percivalé]

I don't like that vote tbh I was already really torn on you

[Shinori]

I missed it if you said it earlier.

Why does me voting you just shotgun to me being scum in your eyes?

[Shinori]

I feel like you also ignored my argument which still stands in the above post, even if you stated this earlier, if your reasoning was still the same my reasoning is still the same and my vote still stays.

[Shinori]

5 minutes ago, Percivalé said:

I don't like that vote tbh I was already really torn on you

This type of response which just seems to be a way of threatening me in a manner of "you vote me and your scummy" is not great.  I'm not gonna back off of a point I want to raise just because it makes me look worse in your eyes when you're the person I'm questioning.

Instead of passively threatening me and responding me like you did in this post:

7 minutes ago, Percivalé said:

???????? I said this earlier too were you not fine with it then? I said I thought he was an easy early scum wagon lol. I don't want to elim him personally

Why not just point out you stated this previously, and then answer the question?  I don't think it would be that hard to explain this thought process if it was a genuine thought process from a town-minded agenda.