(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!

[Percivalé]

 

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

I feel like you also ignored my argument which still stands in the above post, even if you stated this earlier, if your reasoning was still the same my reasoning is still the same and my vote still stays.

I'm gonna respond to your argument later, I tend to react first and respond afterwards lol. real talk I don't think I'm a strong or assertive enough player especially as scum to line up elims like that after a flip I want to see. I can elaborate on what I mean but I'll need a sec to go back. I've missed a lot of context cuz I'm not all the way caught up with the thread

what does TMI mean in this context, too much information? 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Everybody’s hedging their reads and it’s killing me

[Percivalé]

please shinori can you wait you're being really gung ho and I need a minute

[charlie_]

4 hours ago, Shinori said:

Uh, I think yolo was scum in the super thunderdome game.

I was his buddy in that game.  Unless we are talking about a different one.

This.

3 hours ago, BT. said:

The way I'm reading this is that you find Maka agreeable but would vote him off of bad cases/votes.. what about that makes them undesirable at endgame? I dunno, seems weird to say you follow their posts / processes and in the same breath say they're a type of unapproachable/unreasonable that shouldn't be kept around long term, seems contradictory to me.

Makaze's posting got a bit better when they actually like, dug into BBM's posts - like this is just objectively better than before but the self-admitted gutread => actual reason pipeline on BBM makes actually criticising the read awkward because the criticism has already been preempted. Tbh I really don't want this to develop into The Thunderdome that wrecked the game linked above but idk if I'm being uncharitable there.

I'm also curious: why is Elieson one of your listed scumreads if you don't want them vigged? They're probably never dying to lynch.

3 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I, uh, need to go right now and haven't formed enough of a read on my one read through of SB's new stuff. To answer your question, I called out Prims's earlier lack of presence specifically because I'm used to Prims being generally more active early on, and because most of the other people who were gone had explicitly given reasons for being sparse so I didn't expect them to be around.

I did get your reasoning for it ftr, it's just a weird vibe to me. Do you have any thoughts on Prims' more recent posts since then?

3 hours ago, Rapier said:

Shinori has posted so much since then that I don't think it's fair to uphold the same argument that applied more to RVS and early D1 phases. I'd need to reread him. So far I'm neutral and I don't think my previous reasons hold any strength anymore.

As for your reasons for insisting your vote on me, I've justified myself in that I hadn't read your interactions with Shinori before, which were enough to suspend my judgment since my reasons to find Shinori sus were weak and early gamey. I did make a mental note that Shinori did a 180º on his opinion about me then, but this doesn't tell me much as it is. I'm neutral on him.

Fair enough on your previous reasons not holding up anymore, but I don't think Shinori has posted much since then fwiw.

Wrt Weapons he posted here and here about having misremembered something in your posts before switching off - does this progression affect your read on him at all? And do you have any thoughts about the Refa wagon (which I think is leading atm) because you said the Weapons one would be easy to vote just before voting for him so I'm a bit confused here. Like obviously you won't suspect your own vote on him, but does other people pushing for other wagons when Weapons is supposedly easy bother you at all?

This is getting long so I'm just going to post and continue.

[Sunwoo]

Percivale, when you are able to, could you explain why you were iffy on Shinori earlier? Admittedly I might just missed it, but I don't remember you saying anything about him in prior posts.

[Sunwoo]

1 minute ago, charlie_ said:

I did get your reasoning for it ftr, it's just a weird vibe to me. Do you have any thoughts on Prims' more recent posts since then?

I'm pretty happy with him now. Would not vote, would not lynch, would not consolidate.

[Percivalé]

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

This type of response which just seems to be a way of threatening me in a manner of "you vote me and your scummy" is not great.  I'm not gonna back off Why not just point out you stated this previously, and then answer the question?  I don't think it would be that hard to explain this thought process if it was a genuine thought process from a town-minded agenda.

well it's what I just said, I tend to react first and then gather my thoughts later. I'm not used to being voted or wagoned in games because it doesn't happen often. "I dont think it would be hard to explain this thought process if it came from a open-minded agenda" I mean I did ask you first, I genuinely wonder what you think about when I said earlier that I think weapons would be an early easy scum target. again if you will allow me some time I can go back on the thread and explain what I mean by that because there's a lot I don't remember it's kind of mainly a vibe I have. and I'm about to leave the house again, that's also why I asked how many hours are left in d1. after thinking about it after my reaction has softened I dont think that if you were scum you would push me this hard on late d1 & with how you've followed up your responses to me this feels like you're confirmation biasing. you latched on really hard and fast based on that one post but I'm wondering what you think about the other stuff I've posted? I know it's not a lot but I'm trying

[Shinori]

Everyone's iffy on me, it's great.

4 minutes ago, Percivalé said:

please shinori can you wait you're being really gung ho and I need a minute

Take your time, I was just posting things as stuff popped in my head.  I thought I was done, I sent the reply, then something else popped into my head so I typed again.  Don't feel rushed you got time.

 

6 minutes ago, Percivalé said:

what does TMI mean in this context, too much information? 

Yeah, too much information.  As in it comes off with a vibe that you are accidentally kind of playing in a way that reveals you know how certain things will end up.  Seeing as it SEEMED like you PREVIOUSLY may have scum read weapons, but then hard swapped away from it as other people focused there and weapons gained traction.  You then, as you stated, didn't want to lynch weapons anymore, but were supposedly fine with it so you could analyze the votes on it, especially the earlier ones.

tldr;

"I think weapons is scum" - you
"Oh yeah maybe!" - other people
"Oh shit that worked, uh, nah!"
I don't wanna be early on that wagon, it's town.
But maybe I could push people who did proactively push this wagon...

[Percivalé]

6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Percivale, when you are able to, could you explain why you were iffy on Shinori earlier? Admittedly I might just missed it, but I don't remember you saying anything about him in prior posts.

I talked about it last night, I can pull up the posts if you want and elaborate later. I've been flip flopping on him all game 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Who here actually thinks I’m scum, and not just a consolidation target? Besides BBM, and I know he’s just tunneling.

[Sunwoo]

Just now, Percivalé said:

I talked about it last night, I can pull up the posts if you want and elaborate later. I've been flip flopping on him all game 

If you're able to pull up the specific posts, that would help a lot.

[Percivalé]

just wanna say I'm also aware I don't have a vote right now, I'd be voting refa but I'm really lost and unsure at this point in the game

[Percivalé]

anyway sorry I'll be back I'll respond properly later

[Shinori]

1 minute ago, Percivalé said:

with how you've followed up your responses to me this feels like you're confirmation biasing. you latched on really hard and fast based on that one post but I'm wondering what you think about the other stuff I've posted? I know it's not a lot but I'm trying

I don't particularly think I'm going on super hard, I only posted a couple of sentences. Fast being it was split across three different posts in a manner that I was having new information pop into my head as I posted I could kind of understand.

I don't really like that you're pushing it off as me conf-biasing because of an interaction that so far went:
You post
Me question
You respond - not answering my question
Me respond
You respond - saying you will answer my question
Me respond

There isn't a whole lot there and my read on you has really just begun so kind of sliding it under the bed as conf bias is questionable at best.

The overall emotion in the posts read to me as town but I really dislike this train of thought and positioning.  I'll most likely move my vote elsewhere shortly.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I don’t think Shinori’s scum. I don’t think Percy’s scum. I don’t think SB and j00 are scum. Nor Makaze or Cam. Or BBM. Or Marth. That leaves BT/Rapier/Prims/Refa/Boron/Elie/and someone else I’m forgetting. I think lurk Elie is just scum but yeah it feels bad voting him cause he hasn’t really played yet. I feel like Refa is playing towards his scum meta and feel like if he were town he would be towntelling a lot more. Prims I may be paranoid about, but I feel like his posts are too well thought out. Rapier I’m going to file away for later because the fundamental problem is that I’m having trouble understanding his posts and that makes for a hard time getting a read. I don’t have the brain capacity for it at the moment. Boron is fine for now and I don’t think my original case on her is worth that much relative to the rest of what’s happened in the thread. BT I don’t know, don’t particularly care for at the moment. I specced multiball for a bit in my head since that would explain why I’m picking up on so much town, but I don’t think it makes sense with lurk scum Elie. Who is the last mystery person let me actually check

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Oh Snike, I feel pretty good about him as well.

[charlie_]

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

Automated Votecount

Refa (4): BT. (13), Prims (34), j00 (28), Bluedoom (49)
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): Shinori (57), BBM (26), Rapier (36)
Makaze (3): Elieson (3), Sunwoo (39), Refa (27)
Rapier (2): charlie_ (23), WeaponsofMassConstruction (35)
Bluedoom (2): Makaze (107), Snike (17)
Not voting (2): Percivalé (12), CT075 (8)

  Reveal hidden contents

VOTING HISTORY

Page 2:
#28: Rapier voted for Prims
#29: Rapier voted for Prims
#32: Snike voted for Rapier
#36: Sunwoo voted for Snike
#41: Shinori voted for Elieson
#47: Refa voted for Makaze
#49: Prims voted for Shinori

Page 3:
#56: BBM voted for Makaze
#62: Makaze voted for BBM

Page 4:
#78: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Prims
#80: Shinori voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction
#82: Rapier voted for Makaze
#90: Sunwoo voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 5:
#109: Shinori voted for Elieson
#120: Bluedoom voted for Refa
#123: Rapier voted for BBM

Page 6:
#127: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Sunwoo
#135: Rapier voted for Bluedoom

Page 7:
#161: Refa voted for Sunwoo
#171: Bluedoom voted for Sunwoo
#173: Sunwoo voted for Refa

Page 8:
#182: BBM voted for Prims
#192: Makaze voted for BBM

Page 9:
#222: Makaze voted for Bluedoom
#223: Shinori voted for Prims

Page 10:
#230: Snike voted for Bluedoom
#234: charlie_ voted for Shinori
#245: Prims voted for Snike
#248: BBM voted for Snike
#250: Shinori voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 11:
#251: Percivalé voted for Bluedoom
#263: j00 voted for Refa
#266: Rapier voted for Bluedoom

Page 12:
#289: Elieson voted for Makaze

Page 13:
#312: Sunwoo voted for Makaze

Page 14:
#349: charlie_ voted for Rapier

Page 15:
#365: j00 voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 16:
#387: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Rapier
#391: Prims voted for Makaze

Page 17:
#424: BBM voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 18:
#441: Bluedoom voted for charlie_
#448: Refa voted for Makaze

Page 19:
#462: BT. voted for Refa
#470: Prims voted for Refa

Page 20:
#477: j00 voted for Refa
#492: Percivalé unvoted

Page 21:
#506: Bluedoom voted for Refa

Page 22:
#527: Rapier voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction

The votals from the previous page are interesting because aside from null!BT I think I townread the entire Refa wagon and from their last post it didn't look like Refa had problems with most of them either. @Refa Do you have any thoughts on this? Would also like Makaze's take on this because they posted them but I'm not sure how seriously/what to make of their Weapons cfd comment.
 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

I just feel very meh overall about Marth's slot. I don't really get a town lean from him but I'm not feeling scum the same way I do for other players. The SB-to-Refa vote is ... well, if I understand it correctly it's because he misattributed something Refa said to SB. But is SB still a scum read in anyway or no?

My biggest issue is his tunneling on me. It's just gives me the feeling of someone who's made up their minds and instead of actively trying to reevaluate their reads is just coming up with reasons as to why this thing I did is still scummy. That said, I actually don't really see it as scummy but it reads like a Marth thing. If I recall correctly, kirsche also played like this often. I do find it annoying even if not scummy though, so it's hard for me to form an objective read here. I wouldn't vote him personally and he's not my top D1 lynch choice, but I also wouldn't be upset if people consolidated on him.

SB just doesn't really stand out in my mind. I can't explain it, but I'm having a hard time remembering their stance on people and their reasonings. This could be on me, this could be the result of not playing mafia for like half a decade, but it kind of fucks me up that I'm reading SB as unmemorable. I could try reading them again later, but ugh. SB, I don't know if I missed it or something but how do you feel about Shinori now

I don't think Marth has been focusing you very much tbh, but why do you think their read on you should've changed? I don't see a scum benefit in particular for keeping hold of the read and it's not like Marth is only focusing you because they've been pushing other reads on me and Refa today so it's not like they'd struggle to find something to do if they switched off.

Wrt Shinori his individual posts have moooostly been fine but I'm a bit leery on the recent Percy vote. The only thing that really sticks out to me is pre-Percy a lot of his content/post bursts felt like they coincided with someone posting they were suspicious of him but like, their interaction with me felt decent on vibesand Rapier's push on them was pretty crummy. 

Shinori was the Percy vote a reaction test?

[Percivalé]

yeah I'm sorry now that I've settled down admittedly I overreacted a bit. im in the car rn but in a couple hours I'll put together a proper response 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Honestly that Percy line(s) pinged me too, but I think it’s just worried about being wrong

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Don’t think Shinori is scum for jumping on it, reads to me as a part of Shinori employing whatever secret strategy he has planned for how he wants to play D1

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Avoiding jumping on Refa wagon cause I know timing wise it looks convenient to jump on a competing wagon, which is dumb as shit, but yeah I just don’t really want to deal with that right now.

also I haven’t really been reading his posts

##Vote: @Refa

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Well he did give me townvibes early on so I should probably go back and read that. But also I do feel he will be able to hard town tell as town if needed so I’ll sit

[Shinori]

15 minutes ago, charlie_ said:

Wrt Shinori his individual posts have moooostly been fine but I'm a bit leery on the recent Percy vote. The only thing that really sticks out to me is pre-Percy a lot of his content/post bursts felt like they coincided with someone posting they were suspicious of him but like, their interaction with me felt decent on vibesand Rapier's push on them was pretty crummy. 

Shinori was the Percy vote a reaction test?

WRT Bolded - partially.  The line of thinking pinged me still, didn't like it, part of it though was just arguing semantics.  Idk if Via has played mafia in the past 4-6 years elsewhere but if they haven't and are still anything like the same person they used to be when we played previously, their current actions remind me a lot more of their town meta and town emotions than mafia gameplay.

Currently my vote is kind of sitting there because I believe sometimes I remember Via cracking under pressure when pushed to an extent if they were scum and I'm currently REALLY trying to think on if their emotion there was the town via or cracking scum via.  I can't quite be sure on him.

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, charlie_ said:

I don't think Marth has been focusing you very much tbh, but why do you think their read on you should've changed? I don't see a scum benefit in particular for keeping hold of the read and it's not like Marth is only focusing you because they've been pushing other reads on me and Refa today so it's not like they'd struggle to find something to do if they switched off.

It's not so much that I think it should've changed, but that I get this feeling that they've come to a conclusion first and are giving justification for why what I do is still scummy rather than actually reevaluating and deciding that despite everything my slot still feels scummy.

Also, I'm very aware that Marth isn't kirsche, but the way Marth's later read on me is explained gives me hard Inception scum!kirsche vibes. (A game in which you, j00, and I were also scum.) He would gives reasons for why people were scum, tiering them in order of scumminess, and even after various interactions and flips happened he'd never actually change his reads, arguing "actually, X could do this as scum too". It's mostly this post of Marth's that rubs me the wrong way and gives me Inception scum!kirsche vibes.

I don't think he needs to take a 180 on me here. But for someone who stated earlier that all I'm doing towards him is saying everything he does is bad and that I should look at it from the other side, he sure refuses to extend the same consideration to me!

[charlie_]

The Shinori Percy vote bugs me because I think last I knew they were scumreading Weapons. @Shinori You said you were waiting on more from Weapons before but never actually followed up - how do you go from this to voting for Percy with a reason that assumes that Weapons is town?