Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[JamieIsBored]

I can talk again yippee! Sorry if I keep going quiet, currently dealing with new account problems. 

14 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

By the way, isn't it 14 players?

It is yes, I can do maths. 

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Opting to initially not contribute seems kinda sketch- being careful is one thing, but distancing/removing yourself from contribution is another. 

From my experience new scum prefer sheeping big wagons as it draws less attention to themselves, but I see the point here. One thing that seemed off to me was how early it was that Defying came to the conclusion that he wouldn't be voting today which I think is what you're bringing attention to? If we had stayed at similar thread activity and Defying had said that near EoD, that would be townier, but so early is eh. 

8 hours ago, Aster said:

What happened while I was gone?

RVS, Shinori teaching DefyingFate about votes, apparently some reaction test between Bartozio and Shinori which Sunwoo and Percivalé aren't too fond of, other than that a whole lot of nothing. 

##Unvote @WeaponsofMassConstruction

I'll move somewhere else when I get to page 4. 

[Eurykins]

3 hours ago, Elieson said:

I get more Will they won't they waffling out of goofy "I swear it's not a harem!" romance anime. Are you trying to explain to the game, scumnori met... WAIT A MINUTE I just reread this little block again, and you're not waffling. LOOK I WANTED TO SHARE MY THOUGHT PROCESS IN READING YOUR POST AND BY THAT I MEAN MY ENTIRE THOUGHT PROCESS, so you get this. WAIT A MOMENT You weren't townreading these people, you were simply listing that they're keeping the game active?? I TAKE BACK MY TAKE BACK; this waffle is bad and you should feel bad.

Consider what, exactly? Engaging without engaging?

This entire Eury post just feels off / forced.

Why post things in the order that you did, where you describe content creators before townreads? Why vote for the newb when you're already fully admitting that you believe them to be a newb? What do you expect out of this vote that couldn't be more useful elsewhere? A ping would have sufficed just fine. Mixed/Paranoia reads on Shinori, Percivale, & Fates, and very little regarding Sunwoo and Weapons such that it feels like this is a post meant to fill space and show effort rather than contribute or advance things. Top it all off with what I've already said that at the top of this post, are four names specifically pointed out as being active... it doesn't seem right. Why say these things? Why is this post here, and why is it so organized and large, yet devoid of any committed thoughts or actual content?

##Vote @Eurykins

 

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Best of luck!

And everyone's just testing the waters, I think.

On break time, so keeping this response short. 2 Concerns I had when skimming the thread while working were from Elieson and DF. The former for the above notions, the latter for posting randomly commenting on someone asking for a summary, yet ignoring questions directed at them AND giving no meaningful input as well. As a result, vote is staying on DF, and still wanting to hear from them.

Regarding Elie Concerns:
The literal list, as well the order in which I listed them, paralleled the order in which actual post count was at the time. Shinori/Percivale/Weapons/Sunwoo were the top posters at the time, IN THAT ORDER (Shinori had the most, Perc after him, etc.), and so I kept the descriptions/thoughts of them likewise IN THAT ORDER for mental organization sake. 

Secondly, you stated that I had no "reads", despite clearly stating Sunwoo was feeling the most townie read (for what I could have at 3 pages via RVS) while informing why the others did NOT match said tones or gut reads. I don't know how you garnered that I waffled or stated nothing when I in fact stated MANY things as to what I was gauging opinions and impressions of. I have zero reasons to have any full/hard townreads at this point (Sunwoo was the strongest leaning on gut/impression of activity and conversations for me), and I fully explained why in that past, regarding the most active faces in the thread at that time.

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Can't really say much about the vibes of DF (this implying that I have no hard read to be garnered btw) - none of what was happening screamed super townie newbie vibes, null at best. Shinori was probably the one who got more "townie helping newbie" points from their interactions, not DF, and doesn't really do much to assist in gauging their scum/town vibes. The very first post to *not vote*/kill someone Day 1 was very likely a joke, but seems odd coming from a townsided opinion, as the lynch/day kill is the only means to remove town threats, outside of specific roles or such that can be done at night. Even for someone new to "Mafia" or any game like it (Town of Salem, AmongUs, and many other games that encompass the same overarching gameplay), the goal has always been extremely simple and straight forward- remove threats from town by voting/killing them before they kill you or you lose. Opting to initially not contribute seems kinda sketch- being careful is one thing, but distancing/removing yourself from contribution is another. 

#Vote @DefyingFates

Tell me your thoughts- what are you considering when it comes to approaching this game? 
 

Anything crossing your mind or catching your attention with any of the posts? Are you looking for someone/something in particular to dig into?

Please look at the above bolded notion, and then re-read what was typed in your bolded UNDERLINED text Elie. I STATED VERY CLEARLY THAT "NONE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING SCREAMED SUPER TOWNIE NEWBIE VIBES". I actually don't know if you MISREAD my post, or something else, because what you're asking literally makes zero sense to me.

Next, you asked me WHY I am voting for them? Please read the underlined portion of MY post, and you will have the answer. 

Also I urged/asked questions to them, asking for input, contribution, ANYTHING really. 

And AT THIS TIME, DF has yet to respond to any question, and had only posted that empty post above towards Aster's post. Which is why I'm intent in keeping my post on DF at this time, and why I voted them earlier. (Because nothing has changed my stance on this situation.)

I don't know whether Elieson is just being super nitpicky or something else, but the fact that so much in my post was IGNORED despite him "reading into it" literally doesn't make sense to me. It bothers me, but at this point, I am fine with keeping my vote on DF until more responses are garnered. 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

38 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

 I thought I explained this before but if scum!Shinori can be paranoid of your alignment(and we're in a setup where he can) why is the likelier assumption that he's town using that line of questioning? Every faction is scum hunting to some degree. Usually from what I see your explanation early on for your reads is gut so this seemed out of place from what I'm used to seeing of you.

 

 

I feel like Scumnori would be more likely to just not interact with the read. Obviously he could just be replicating town meta, but the way he did it pinged me like he wasn't thinking much about it at all. Would you say the suspicions on you are justifiable so far?

multiball hard scum pls just shoot each other

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

10 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

 

On break time, so keeping this response short.

mhmm

[Shinori]

@WeaponsofMassConstruction Whatchur thoughts on bart wagon?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

no thoughts 🤷‍♂️

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Actually I considered joining it at some point, but it really felt like wagoning just to wagon. I mean I guess maybe that was the play just to help move things along, but even that felt likely pointless. I see what people are saying about Bart, but it feels more like people trying to latch onto something more than anything else.

[JamieIsBored]

6 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

Bruh I keep reading these 4 pages and the only thing I feel strongly about is that Eury is town.

5 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

I just don't feel strongly about anything

Why is Eury town?

4 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

especially if its something like 9/2/2 lol

Another victim of thinking there are 13 players. 

4 hours ago, Aster said:

Jaime seem pretty town so far

Me? I mean I'll take it but why is that?

3 hours ago, j00 said:

You rarely lynch inactives D1

Noted. Inactives are normally the D1 lynch in my home forum.

3 hours ago, Elieson said:

Welcome to SF.

Thank you. It's very cozy so far.

3 hours ago, Elieson said:

I am explicitly not scumreading (as in, I would protest votes made against)

• Percivale

 

I'll back this. Feeling towny to me atm too. 

1 hour ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

@DefyingFates why the Percy vote?

I was gonna get at this too, DefyingFates went from "I'll wait for more people to gauge an opinion" to voting for Percivalé with seemingly no reason.

1 hour ago, Bluedoom said:

This is going off of meta but she's been very wordy/talkative and explains her read a lot more. Whenever I've seen her as scum she posts a lot less words, sentences are shorter etc.

An answer to my earlier question. Not a big fan of this read, but I can't say I know her meta so yeah. 

Page 4 > Page 3

Not a big fan of these wagons tbh, I'll chuck some pressure out:
##Vote: @DefyingFates

I'd like to reiterate a couple questions:
Who do you think is the towniest?
Who do you feel is scummy?
What was the reasoning behind your vote on Percivalé?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@Bartozio how do you feel about your wagon?

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

@Bartozio how do you feel about your wagon?

Sunwoo and Perci feel pretty towny to me. I don't really agree with Sunwoo's reasoning for voting me, but I do think she went about it in a towny way if that makes sense.

Perci playing by vibes means I have difficulty reading him, but there's nothing from their play that I would scumread right now.

That makes J00 pretty easily the worst vote by comparison. Him disliking RVS is believable enough, but it's also a pretty easy to vote to make and the way he said it makes it easy to jump off it whenever. Small scum lean there.

Shinori not voting me is kind of lame, since I feel me having 3 votes might have compelled people to talk about me more. Sadly, because he did the same thing last game and messing with people on purpose is very much something he'd do as town, he's more null.

[Elieson]

43 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Regarding Elie Concerns:
The literal list, as well the order in which I listed them, paralleled the order in which actual post count was at the time. Shinori/Percivale/Weapons/Sunwoo were the top posters at the time, IN THAT ORDER (Shinori had the most, Perc after him, etc.), and so I kept the descriptions/thoughts of them likewise IN THAT ORDER for mental organization sake. 

Secondly, you stated that I had no "reads", despite clearly stating Sunwoo was feeling the most townie read (for what I could have at 3 pages via RVS) while informing why the others did NOT match said tones or gut reads. I don't know how you garnered that I waffled or stated nothing when I in fact stated MANY things as to what I was gauging opinions and impressions of. I have zero reasons to have any full/hard townreads at this point (Sunwoo was the strongest leaning on gut/impression of activity and conversations for me), and I fully explained why in that past, regarding the most active faces in the thread at that time.

Please look at the above bolded notion, and then re-read what was typed in your bolded UNDERLINED text Elie. I STATED VERY CLEARLY THAT "NONE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING SCREAMED SUPER TOWNIE NEWBIE VIBES". I actually don't know if you MISREAD my post, or something else, because what you're asking literally makes zero sense to me.

Next, you asked me WHY I am voting for them? Please read the underlined portion of MY post, and you will have the answer. 

Also I urged/asked questions to them, asking for input, contribution, ANYTHING really. 

And AT THIS TIME, DF has yet to respond to any question, and had only posted that empty post above towards Aster's post. Which is why I'm intent in keeping my post on DF at this time, and why I voted them earlier. (Because nothing has changed my stance on this situation.)

I don't know whether Elieson is just being super nitpicky or something else, but the fact that so much in my post was IGNORED despite him "reading into it" literally doesn't make sense to me. It bothers me, but at this point, I am fine with keeping my vote on DF until more responses are garnered. 

I stated that you have no reads? Really? Can you quote me on that?

-------

Second:

Sunwoo seems to be probing more questions and prods to encourage more conversation/reactions, so not a bad vibe here. Probably the towniest read so far, even if the read itself isn't for much more reason than just general participation. 

(IDK how this quote didn't actually quote) Regarding me saying you "waffled" on Sunwoo. Think of it this way. In the same sentence, you said you townread Sunwoo, but because of general participation (something that realistically, everyone should be doing). You complimented her gameplay in the prior sentence, and then immediately follow it up with a townread based more on activity than anything else. Your second sentence summary, detracts from your townread on Sunwoo, by downplaying the very thing that you're townreading her for. If this isn't waffling, tell me what the term should be.

-------

Lastly, and most complicated of all; I'll bite on the Fates thing. You pointed out that Shinori helped a Newbie. This leads me to think that you are viewing Fates as a newbie. I have become confused in reading your post in how you imply that you think that they're not newb enough to be saying the things that they're saying... but you acknowledge that Shinori is "helping a newbie", but then post about what mistakes a player who has any mafia experience wouldn't make, but then ask Fates very fundamental questions after voting for them. So you're voting Fates to apply pressure, but have a nullread (at best) on Fates, and want Fates to answer questions, rather than asking the rest of the game questions about Fates.

I'm not even being sarcastic here, when I say that I have a very difficult time following your thought process here. I get "I'm voting Fates because of their lack of content and I think their newbplay is totally worthless" and I get "their posts are actively and fundamentally wrong with how mafia should be played", and I get "Fates, please provide some genuine input about the game", but you danced around it so much and combine it in an extremely muddled way.

For the sake of the game (and for me), can you post in bulletpoints, simple "this is scummy/worth a vote" points regarding Fates? IE is Fates a newb, or not? Is Fates scummy, or not? 

[Elieson]

56 minutes ago, JamieIsBored said:

An answer to my earlier question. Not a big fan of this read, but I can't say I know her meta so yeah. 

SF players usually bark at others who case people on Meta, but I fall victim to meta reads pretty hard 'round here. We all hate it, but we all do it. Enjoy your lack of awareness on meta for anyone other than me and maybe Shinori.

[Sunwoo]

SF please stop saving my old posts

4 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Short answer: Anything other than being ignored, which was what was happening.

Slightly longer answer: I was hoping people would interact with it more, be it with Nori voting me back or some new town voting me for it because I "slipped scum". Heck maybe someone would continue the joke by claiming to be the other scumteam and proposing an alliance.

To be fair Shinori did respond to you. The thread also wasn't super active between your vote and unvote, so "ignored" feels like a bit of a strong word. That said, I will give you that there were people who saw it and chose not to acknowledge it. Do you think this makes them any more or less townie/scummy? And what do you think of the (admittedly sparse) activity that's happened since?

I did see your post in response to Weapons, but I'd like thoughts on the general state of the game rather than just your wagon.

4 hours ago, Elieson said:

The way you phrase this, makes me think that Fates could be coached newbscum. I really don't like the hesitation here of the "they're fine but they're not fine, pass but not complete pass" paranoia. Much like Fire Emblem Fates, choose your path.

Well, about that coaching thing, I gave both Fates and Aster some last minute mafia tips right before the game started so --

In all seriousness, I'd like to see thoughts from Fates and Aster on the state of the game. Give us something to work with! 😛

So, this is more of a meta read than anything, but slight town read on both Elie and Eury. Elie is making sense sounds like his town self from games in previous years. Likewise, Eury sounds invested in the game and passionate, which is just tonally different from when she's scum. I may not agree with them 100%, but I just feel good about them based on tone.

Vote stays on Bartozio for now because I would like to get more thoughts on stuff besides his wagon, and a proper vote.

[CT075]

okay so I got off the airplane and proceeded to forget that I was playing a game of mafia so please give me a moment to catch up

Offhand I think pressuring the new people feels a little too easy to fake but the obvious people doing so have other opinions so w/e, let me read everything more closely

[Eurykins]

48 minutes ago, Elieson said:

I stated that you have no reads? Really? Can you quote me on that?

-------

Second:

Sunwoo seems to be probing more questions and prods to encourage more conversation/reactions, so not a bad vibe here. Probably the towniest read so far, even if the read itself isn't for much more reason than just general participation. 

(IDK how this quote didn't actually quote) Regarding me saying you "waffled" on Sunwoo. Think of it this way. In the same sentence, you said you townread Sunwoo, but because of general participation (something that realistically, everyone should be doing). You complimented her gameplay in the prior sentence, and then immediately follow it up with a townread based more on activity than anything else. Your second sentence summary, detracts from your townread on Sunwoo, by downplaying the very thing that you're townreading her for. If this isn't waffling, tell me what the term should be.

-------

Lastly, and most complicated of all; I'll bite on the Fates thing. You pointed out that Shinori helped a Newbie. This leads me to think that you are viewing Fates as a newbie. I have become confused in reading your post in how you imply that you think that they're not newb enough to be saying the things that they're saying... but you acknowledge that Shinori is "helping a newbie", but then post about what mistakes a player who has any mafia experience wouldn't make, but then ask Fates very fundamental questions after voting for them. So you're voting Fates to apply pressure, but have a nullread (at best) on Fates, and want Fates to answer questions, rather than asking the rest of the game questions about Fates.

I'm not even being sarcastic here, when I say that I have a very difficult time following your thought process here. I get "I'm voting Fates because of their lack of content and I think their newbplay is totally worthless" and I get "their posts are actively and fundamentally wrong with how mafia should be played", and I get "Fates, please provide some genuine input about the game", but you danced around it so much and combine it in an extremely muddled way.

For the sake of the game (and for me), can you post in bulletpoints, simple "this is scummy/worth a vote" points regarding Fates? IE is Fates a newb, or not? Is Fates scummy, or not? 

Responding to UNDERLINED, I will refer you to the prior posts you had:

5 hours ago, Elieson said:

Ok. This one's a roller coaster, because reading your post required me to physically get up, get coffee, sit down, and reread it.

I get more Will they won't they waffling out of goofy "I swear it's not a harem!" romance anime. Are you trying to explain to the game, scumnori met... WAIT A MINUTE I just reread this little block again, and you're not waffling. LOOK I WANTED TO SHARE MY THOUGHT PROCESS IN READING YOUR POST AND BY THAT I MEAN MY ENTIRE THOUGHT PROCESS, so you get this. WAIT A MOMENT You weren't townreading these people, you were simply listing that they're keeping the game active?? I TAKE BACK MY TAKE BACK; this waffle is bad and you should feel bad.

5 hours ago, Elieson said:

I have an actual intentional, bonafide scumread on:

• Eury for that big ol' nothing post unintentionally disguised as micro wallpost

The first commentary you had states that you take offense to whether I townread the folks or not. (KEEP IN MIND THAT PAGE 3 WAS THE EXTENT OF THE POSTS WHEN I POSTED THE POST YOU RESPONSED TO.)
I explicitly stated things that were either commented beforehand by others of being "Townie" or not, and I disputed clearly on several notions. One example: Shinori assisting/helping a "newbie" does NOT automatically give him Town!nori vibes, as Scumnori can just as easily do this to entice a better light on HIMSELF. This is why I do not trust the simple interactions themselves enough to get a GOOD VIBE/town read on Shinori at this time. I pointed this out, because some people were commenting early on immediately taking Town!nori reads/stances on him for this interaction, and I was making it clear that I did not agree with those notions. 

Finding it odd to not have strong/prominent town reads during RVS seems unusual, given the lack of posting/context in the thread at the time. Why should I have had any STRONG townreads at that time, Elieson? Who did you have as a "strong town read" by page 3? The expectations on this matter seem wildly out of wack given extended RVS D1 timeframe.

Regarding the SECOND post/quote: "Big ol' NOTHING POST (implying zero content/reads/etc. that hold any significance to contribution or meaningful responses to the thread/game?) disguised as micro wallpost". Am I incorrect in stating that, with the above statement, you assumed zero content/reads/etc. that basically rendered my post basically a waste of time and "faked effort", or forced as you said later? I don't see how this can be taken any other way except how you blatantly stated it and reading between the lines. This, oddly enough is also why you're opting to vote/attempt to scum read me at this time?

---

Regarding Sunwoo: I'm going to reference what I just stated above, which was (once again) explained before: She was as "strong" as a town read, but by no means a CONFIRMED TOWN READ FOR ME, because of what appeared to me as them constantly trying to prompt/engage other players and push the wheels more. Is Sunwoo the person I feel BEST about at this time, outside of myself? Yes. Can this change, depending on more interactions later, other contributions from other players, and other posts to come? Of course. I don't know how much more I can clarify this point, because you apparently have an ISSUE with me having Sunwoo in this position, without me having the read list to clearly convey what I'm saying.

Me > Sunwoo > Most other players > DF, regarding Town confidence read.

-- 
Regarding DF- My vote on DF, as full clarification, has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NEWNESS OF THE PLAYER. Period.

The problem/reason why I'm asking for their contribution/thoughts is for the following: Please check the posts below from DF.

On 7/15/2024 at 3:34 AM, DefyingFates said:

I'm going to abstain from voting today. It may not be logical but killing someone on Day 1 still feels excessive 😛

On 7/15/2024 at 4:02 AM, DefyingFates said:

I see, thanks! In that case I'll hold off until we hear from more people.

On 7/15/2024 at 8:48 AM, DefyingFates said:

##Vote: @Percivalé

This is how you do it, right? Thanks for the advice @Shinori!

10 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Best of luck!

And everyone's just testing the waters, I think.

1. Mafia is an extremely common goal/trope found in MANY OTHER GAMES that exist: Town of Salem, AmongUs, etc. etc. Between streamers, popularity online, and even outside of those things-  the goal is the same: Remove threats to town before they remove (kill) you. Voting someone out everyday in hopes of removing threats is common knowledge, and is the main goal of anyone TOWNSIDED. This is an issue regarding the very first post they made. It isn't ASKING for advice on how to best partake, questions asking how things goes, etc. It's a statement stating that they wished to refrain/abstain from Voting today, because it seems "excessive" to kill someone on D1. Simply put, this is the most Anti-town mindset/action to put forth, and it has nothing to do with being a NEWBIE at this game or not.

2. Multiple questions have been directed to DF if I recall (not just my own) yet NONE have been remotely responded to at this time. I also dislike the notion of "I'll hold off until we hear from more people". Just like point #1, they are refraining from their own interactions, stating their own observations or any form of commentary of any of the posts thus far. Why? This is why I asked for their thoughts, comments, ANYTHING, because NOTHING HAS BEEN GIVEN. 

Based on the issues above, this goes beyond "Omg I wanna grill newbie cause they ez to play into" or contrived voting. The above notions BOTHERED ME since the original post, which is why I asked the questions I did, in hopes for more INFORMATION/chance to READ THEM.

As for my THOUGHTS ON DF (read-wise):Their gameplay/posts thus far have bothered me the most so far - this is why I am pressure voting/asking questions. I don't know if their inactivity/lack of contribution is caused strictly by their "newness of the game", but the lack of effort to give ANYTHING is an issue on its own. What IS there to be gained from what has been said, when legitimately NOTHING has been said? I don't even recall what the Perci vote was for, I had assumed it was RVS joke vote situation.

I however, am NOT keen on giving them the pass BECAUSE of their newbie status. The concept of not being interested in contributing at ALL to conversations or votes/lynches bothers me due to town goals and interests, and the fact that you don't see this as an issue also concerns me, Elieson.

I will be re-checking into a few others later, but lunch break is almost over, and I am attempting to figure out why you're so confused as to what was explained several times now.

[Shinori]

Oh dear god it has begun.

[Shinori]

Elie/Eury spat is kind of interesting to view though.

[Bartozio]

Since Sunwoo asked and I'm still the biggest wagon right now (I think):

Town leans: Sunwoo, Perci, Bluedoom, Elie

Sunwoo and Perci I talked about in my previous post on this page. With Bluedoom and Elie, I like the reasoning I've seen of them so far.

Eury I was leaning scum on, but I'm willing to sheep Bluedoom and Sunwoo if they're saying this is her town meta.

Grace: Her one serious post is fine, but I'd like more to go on.

Hard null: CT075. This should need no explanation.

Scum leans:

Aster: She's pretty passive, which imo is more scummy than towny. Not too telling for a new player though, which is why she's the weakest scum lean.

DefyingFates: He's a bit more active, but the Perci vote lacked an explanation ( @DefyingFates please still give this, lol) and he capitulated a little too easily about not voting someone early on for my taste. (For the record, I do think voting people early on is better, but swapping off of your plan so quickly feels like pleasing people). Again though, new player, so taking it all with a grain of salt.

Shinori: I could see Shinori act like this as either allignment, but I'm currently leaning slightly more towards him replicating his previous town game as scum. Mostly a gut feeling though.

WeaponsofMassConstruction: They feel very... there? Like, I read back their posts, and there's enough of them, but not too much in it. I get finding it difficult to make reads at this point, which is why this category is called scum lean instead of hard scum read, but not a huge fan.

j00: Not too much was said, other than jumping on my wagon without great reasoning.

JamieIsBored: Kind of similar to the two above with not saying too much. Some talk about numbers and casing a newby, really. Something that caught my eye while rereading though:

On 7/15/2024 at 6:40 PM, JamieIsBored said:

Towny thought process.

This is in response to DefyingFates saying he doesn't want to vote anyone.

3 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

From my experience new scum prefer sheeping big wagons as it draws less attention to themselves, but I see the point here. One thing that seemed off to me was how early it was that Defying came to the conclusion that he wouldn't be voting today which I think is what you're bringing attention to? If we had stayed at similar thread activity and Defying had said that near EoD, that would be townier, but so early is eh.

This feels like a pretty big 180 with no real reason given.

##Vote: @JamieIsBored

Feel free to explain.

[Bartozio]

And with that I'm going to sleep.

Few notes about the above post:

- Yes it is ordered

- I very much pushed myself to put nobody in null, other than the guy with (understandably) no content posted. Otherwise basically everyone would be in null.

- If my reasoning for someone sounds weak... see the above point.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@j00 would like to hear more from you

[j00]

oh god Eury wallposts

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, j00 said:

oh god Eury wallposts

It only took 5 pages!

[Shinori]

Marth Bart and Elie are currently the people I'm fond of the least.

More of a focus on the first two there I think.

Sadly not a whole lot has happened here so most cases are kind of weak as a whole.

Marth is still kind of based off my initial post WRT them and I don't think their responses to me were enough to really change my opinion there.

Bart has that weirdness coming from RVS and has now given a reads post.  Putting both new players into their scum lean + myself based on gut + Weapons + J00 + Jamie.  Following through on their jamie read is at least there but I'm seeing some things I'm not really liking all that much.

Elie kind of feels like he's partially forcing his case on Eury to an extent and I can't tell if that's just scum trying to force a case and stick with it at the moment or if that's town that is swinging for anything that looks like something to them, at the moment I think it might be more of the latter.

[Shinori]

I'm gonna start going back into just posting in real time again and posting more because then hopefully more stuff will happen but hey NO PROMISES.  Maybe because there isn't two people like me it won't be that bad.

[Elieson]

Gonna see if I can condense things here, for page size and player convenience when scrolling on the entire page:

Response #1 to Eury

Spoiler

38 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Finding it odd to not have strong/prominent town reads during RVS seems unusual, given the lack of posting/context in the thread at the time. Why should I have had any STRONG townreads at that time, Elieson? Who did you have as a "strong town read" by page 3? The expectations on this matter seem wildly out of wack given extended RVS D1 timeframe.

1: Why? You should, so you can focus your reads on things that are happening, rather than doubting every word you see to the point that it causes you to repeat the same rhetoric of "I kinda like what X is doing, but X might be putting on a front, so I've got my eye on you" after 2, 3, 4 people's posts.

I find it odd that during RVS, a stage of the game notorious for featuring posts and reads that don't mean a whole lot, you're out here saying that to the game, we shouldn't take much of the things many people are saying at worth much. Of course, we know that anything said by anybody right now isn't worth much, but we're out here talking, aren't we? Take a stance, without the wishy washy warnings. We know you doubt everyone and have a reason to doubt them. Don't fill your posts up with that shit. Either leave it out, or make that your stance; that you innately are not trusting X person, and that you'd vote them if you had more votes than just one.

2: A "strong townread" enough to outright state that I wouldn't vote for them? A couple of people, such a Bluedoom. That's strong for this point of the game. If I won't vote them, I think they're town enough on the spectrum of votables.

Response #2 to Eury

Spoiler

38 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Regarding the SECOND post/quote: "Big ol' NOTHING POST (implying zero content/reads/etc. that hold any significance to contribution or meaningful responses to the thread/game?) disguised as micro wallpost". Am I incorrect in stating that, with the above statement, you assumed zero content/reads/etc. that basically rendered my post basically a waste of time and "faked effort", or forced as you said later? I don't see how this can be taken any other way except how you blatantly stated it and reading between the lines. This, oddly enough is also why you're opting to vote/attempt to scum read me at this time?

You pointed out that Shinori isn't to be trusted as helping a newbie is essentially meaningless
  - (Paraphrasing Eury's words here) They're doing some things that look townie, but watch out game. It's not automatically townie.

You pointed out that the newbie isn't to be trusted, since to play this game, they clearly entered with enough context in mind to understand (your defined) core basics of how mafia works.
  - (Paraphrasing Eury's words here) They're doing some things that look townie, but watch out game. It's not automatically townie.

You stated that Sunwoo is the most townie, by participation; enough that you had to repeat it twice in the same little mini-paragraph.
  - (Paraphrasing Eury's words here) They're doing some things that look townie, but watch out game. It's not automatically townie.
  - Heck in your response to me, you even go on to say that your thoughts can change later.

You can see how you're devaluing your own statements here, right? How you're taking a relatively noncommittal stance on anything outside of Fates reads and kinda your Sunwoo thoughts. 

Response #3 to Eury

Spoiler

49 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

2. Multiple questions have been directed to DF if I recall (not just my own) yet NONE have been remotely responded to at this time. I also dislike the notion of "I'll hold off until we hear from more people". Just like point #1, they are refraining from their own interactions, stating their own observations or any form of commentary of any of the posts thus far. Why? This is why I asked for their thoughts, comments, ANYTHING, because NOTHING HAS BEEN GIVEN. 

Shinori did this, and got progress, without a vote. You do this, with a vote. Either Fates isn't around to post, or you caught them and we should just build a wagon on them right now. If Fates doesn't respond by phase end, 

1 hour ago, Eurykins said:

As for my THOUGHTS ON DF (read-wise):Their gameplay/posts thus far have bothered me the most so far - this is why I am pressure voting/asking questions.

I however, am NOT keen on giving them the pass BECAUSE of their newbie status. The concept of not being interested in contributing at ALL to conversations or votes/lynches bothers me due to town goals and interests, and the fact that you don't see this as an issue also concerns me, Elieson.

So, they bother you enough to vote to apply pressure and see what you can get for reaction(s), but not to flat out scumread. Got it.

This does bother me, but much like you're taking a stance that they're not a newb, I'm taking a stance on other things; Fates more newb than not (maybe has 2 games under their belt, where things happened that they didn't fully understand), they're not around to post as (or if they are, it's not nearly as much as everyone else), and that if they have something to add, they'll add it. Things in the future can change that (as you like to say), but I'm committing myself to look at what's already happened, and what's already happened is not giving me a scumread. There's little else happening, right? Make something new happen, or find something that is happening and push it. Also, I've been there before; not confident with my words, lack of experience in what is very much a situation involving meta (which has been outright stated by several players up to now), and not confident with what I should do given a particular role I might have. I'm not gonna wish and wash about it; I think they're newbtown. If your vote is on them because you believe they're scum (newbscum or otherwise), then say it in an ultra simple way, so that when people are reading up, they can clearly see your position. The fact that your initial post voting for Fates lacked such an obvious "I'm voting you because of your scummy behavior, including this, this and this", concerns me, because you've turned responding to you into a cryptic endeavor, rather than leaving it as something which should be simple to do. I see plenty of things to look at, and more things to point out and be bothered by than just the newbie-styled postings of Fates. I'm sure you do too.

Push Shinori with big bold shiny letters and threat of a vote about his guidance of the "newb", unless you don't think that's a trail that will lead anywhere. Push "CT075" for voting for Sunwoo, the closest thing that you have of a townread, by calling out inactivity as a feign due to how slow the game is. IDK, if you're that paranoid about other people, say so explicitly