Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[Sunwoo]

4 minutes ago, JamieIsBored said:

What is martyr sorry? I thought it was like princess but obviously not if it’s like a protection role. 

Traditional SF martyr dies in the place of the person they targeted at night. So, if scum targeted player X and martyr also targets player X, then the martyr dies instead of player X.

2 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I'm *guessing.

P.S. I assume Mayor works like in other games, where once revealed their vote counts twice?

On SF the mayor's vote always counts for twice (except when there are 4 or less players left). This explains why Shinori was being so cagey about voting, he most likely didn't want to give away his role.

General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been?

[DefyingFates]

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been?

j00's played this before, right? So I'm assuming she had reads on people too, in which case she was probably confident enough that someone was town to protect them at the same time one of the mafia groups targeted the same person after reaching the same conclusion.

At the very least, if she had the option of doing something at night I imagine she would have taken it... though I'm not sure how well that logic applies when said action is putting yourself on the line.

7 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

On SF the mayor's vote always counts for twice (except when there are 4 or less players left). This explains why Shinori was being so cagey about voting, he most likely didn't want to give away his role.

Oh, so the double vote is mandatory? Yeah, I get why he abstained then - beyond not knowing who to go for, though in hindsight that makes him telling me it's better to vote than not very suspicious xD

9 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Traditional SF martyr dies in the place of the person they targeted at night. So, if scum targeted player X and martyr also targets player X, then the martyr dies instead of player X.

Okay, so martyr is like a bodyguard in other versions, thanks! Are dead players allowed to leave a last will or parting message like in Town of Salem? The mafia tips advised dead people to stick around.

[DefyingFates]

As for who j00 was protecting, everyone was pretty confident Eury was town, right? She's one of the few you all seemed to agree on in that regard and she also had a lot to say, so I can imagine the mafia wanting to take her out of commission ASAP.

[JamieIsBored]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Traditional SF martyr dies in the place of the person they targeted at night. So, if scum targeted player X and martyr also targets player X, then the martyr dies instead of player X.

So bodyguard, gotcha.

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been?

I could see j00 being a target for RAT, early vote on Marth plus I felt like she was generally getting discussion moved forward. I can’t see j00 posting her town reads anywhere, so I’d believe it was likely one of the more generally townread players like yourself (could explain your thoughts that someone visited you), Percivalé or Elieson (to some degree) more confident on the other two though.

[JamieIsBored]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

As for who j00 was protecting, everyone was pretty confident Eury was town, right? She's one of the few you all seemed to agree on in that regard and she also had a lot to say, so I can imagine the mafia wanting to take her out of commission ASAP.

I kinda doubt this due to her and Elieson’s argument, scum would rather go for cleaner town imo.

[Sunwoo]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

j00's played this before, right? So I'm assuming she had reads on people too, in which case she was probably confident enough that someone was town to protect them at the same time one of the mafia groups targeted the same person after reaching the same conclusion.

At the very least, if she had the option of doing something at night I imagine she would have taken it... though I'm not sure how well that logic applies when said action is putting yourself on the line.

Martyr generally exists to take a bullet for a stronger role (or a super townie player), and in some rare cases might be the only protective role, so it's better for them to act than not if they have a strong role or player to protect.

5 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Okay, so martyr is like a bodyguard in other versions, thanks! Are dead players allowed to leave a last will or parting message like in Town of Salem? The mafia tips advised dead people to stick around.

The only time I've seen wills in SF games is as part of someone's role. There was also a very old game from before I played here that used them as a game mechanic, but otherwise it's not standard.

2 minutes ago, JamieIsBored said:

I kinda doubt this due to her and Elieson’s argument, scum would rather go for cleaner town imo.

I guess it also depends on whether scum feel they could mislynch Eury or not. In the absence of obvious roles to shoot like cop or doc, SF scum tend to go for players whom they don't think they can mislynch. I remember one game where a player who was almost the D1 lynch was still the N1 kill because the scum team felt that he'd never actually be mislynched and he's a very strong player.

Granted, our meta is almost a decade old at this point, but I do recall that Eury tended to not be a popular nightkill option for scum when she played.

[Elieson]

Well, I'll eat my words. Marth wasn't town. I was all set to post up a shitton of stuff but the scumflip completely demotivated me to do just that. I'll put more content out later, after i finish decompressing after work, and then after i move furniture around s'more.

 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been?

I think j00 probably -was- a target, due to just kinda being like a coasty "decent enough" read to probably avoid getting lynched via other means, and also being unlikely to have drawn in attention for protection. if I were scum, or SK, I'd probably have shot her, but we all know that I don't shoot when I'm SK, so that's just theoretical mumblings.

 

1 hour ago, JamieIsBored said:

I kinda doubt this due to her and Elieson’s argument, scum would rather go for cleaner town imo.

From what I'd read, I thought people were fairly divisive on Me/Eury being sided in any particular way. I saw people saying all sorts of things.

 

Quote

Bluedoom (6): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00, Percivale, Eurykins, JamieIsBored, CT075

Let us remind ourselves of both, who was voting for Marth (excluding Shinori, who said he would've iirc, but didn't for obvious reasons), and think about things from there. It feels like a good starting spot? IDK, I don't feel like I recall j00 leaving a strong enough impression to stand out in any capacity to warrant extensive distancing, but Shinori was more vocal and garnered more attention. IDK; multiball is stupid and typical scumhunting methods clearly aren't the way to go. Excuse me while I devour this Subway sandwich and lament out loud now that I can finally do so.

[Sunwoo]

Ugh, fuck this. I just can't shake the bad vibes.

##Vote: Bartozio

Maybe I'm going into tunnel vision mode, but I was rereading D1 and I'm really not happy here. Having bad reads isn't a scum tell, but his reasons for townreading people were, uh, not great. For example, here he says he was leaning scum on Eury but Marth and I being so confident in her town meta just swayed him? That alone shouldn't put her so high up in town reads. Why is Cam the only null? Weapons and Aster would make sense to be there too, just based on what he said. Shinori is in his scum leans for a pretty bad, unexplained reason. Also, at that point in the game not a lot had happened and it's totally fine to not divide everyone (who isn't Cam) into town or scum.

He's been overly passive the entire day, which again I get being busy but it feels to me more like a detached "meh" passive rather than "too busy, can't do shit" passive. Votes Shinori at the end of the day for ??? reasons, never publicly reevaluated their thoughts on other players.

Also, even if he's not Marth's scum buddy, he could still be on other scum team.

Bartozio, if you are town, prove me wrong. Impress me this phase.

[Percivalé]

what am I going to do without shinori to guide me 💔

[Sunwoo]

Upon reread I guess Grace's slot could also be on one of the scum teams? Her most definite reads were suspicion on j00 and Shinori (although the j00 suspicion was expressed late in the phase and never got to vote there) and probably would've voted Shinori had he been a viable wagon at that point. Thought that both Elie and Eury looked weird and didn't seem to like either of them much. Also voted Eury for consolidation instead of Marth, although that only matters if Grace and Marth are buddies. Her earlier post mentioned not wanting to give Fates a pass for new player logic, although she didn't really express thoughts on Fates himself. Besides that, there's a lack of real thoughts on other players.

I also get that she was sick and just subbed out. Which is why I'm trying not to hold it against her too much, but it is something that I'm wary of. Would like Grace's sub beeboat to post thoughts as soon as they're able to.

[CT075]

speculating on whether j00 was protecting someone and/or why she'd be the target is pointless, we'll never know unless the shooter decides to fess up

 

(also, I am getting on a train tomorrow so my activity will be spotty again SOZ this game started at a really bad time)

[Eurykins]

Got stuck late at work, going to check things out when I can get some foods and catch a breather. Had a screamer as the last customer I had to deal with for over an hour, so forgive me- having a slight headache to deal with tonight while digesting flips and other posts/interactions.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

55 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Ugh, fuck this. I just can't shake the bad vibes.

##Vote: Bartozio

Maybe I'm going into tunnel vision mode, but I was rereading D1 and I'm really not happy here. Having bad reads isn't a scum tell, but his reasons for townreading people were, uh, not great. For example, here he says he was leaning scum on Eury but Marth and I being so confident in her town meta just swayed him? That alone shouldn't put her so high up in town reads. Why is Cam the only null? Weapons and Aster would make sense to be there too, just based on what he said. Shinori is in his scum leans for a pretty bad, unexplained reason. Also, at that point in the game not a lot had happened and it's totally fine to not divide everyone (who isn't Cam) into town or scum.

He's been overly passive the entire day, which again I get being busy but it feels to me more like a detached "meh" passive rather than "too busy, can't do shit" passive. Votes Shinori at the end of the day for ??? reasons, never publicly reevaluated their thoughts on other players.

Also, even if he's not Marth's scum buddy, he could still be on other scum team.

Bartozio, if you are town, prove me wrong. Impress me this phase.

Fuck it gonna hard defend Bart. I was trying to figure this slot out in particular last night and on reread actually felt like his play checked out. In particular with the one reads post, I feel like listing Eury as town makes sense given that the two haven't played much with each other (if at all) so the perspective of "Eury is doing stuff which is weird [which you'd have to agree with], but people are saying this is just how she plays, so I'll trust them" makes a lot of sense. Beyond that as he says, he's picking an alignment for everyone on purpose, which while probably unnecessary I'd agree, makes sense from a town perspective of trying to adhere to a principle of good play. And really that's how I feel about Bart in general, is that while there's stuff to point to as scummy, I don't see there being scum intent over town who doesn't care about standard play and with their own ideas of how to play the game. All that said I'm not necessarily hard townreading Bart either, just that I don't think that there's really anything suspicious there. Who would you go after next (if you didn't already say)?

(quick question how readable is this, I am trying to work on my eloquence but it is hard to put together, pls help, how does everyone else do it)

NK wise I thought Shinori/Percy were probably likely targets. I thought I might've been as well since I think most people were townreading me, but not sure to what extent. Agree that j00 probably wasn't the intended target; not even sure martyr is bodyguard but I guess we can't know for sure without full flips!

[Sunwoo]

@WeaponsofMassConstruction The level of detachment that Bartozio had to the vast majority of what was going on in the game just doesn't sit right with me though. Sure, there are nuances between town playing well, town playing bad, and town trying to adhere to good play. But the vibe I'm getting from him is one of contributing little unless directly asked, and not really caring about the game state. Dude was present for a few hours before D1 ended and barely gave thoughts on most of the stuff that had gone on.

It's kind of like how I felt that Marth was playing incredibly dispassionately in this game compared to his last. Also, having zero thoughts and/or comments on Elie and Eury's wall-off was pretty lame, even if it was just "I do not have the time for these wall posts lol". They cared enough to respond to people's joke claims, but no actual thoughts? Like, if he's town, he's playing very badly (sorry).

Grace's slot is my second priority, but I'd like to see something from beeboat because Grace did not have a whole lot of content to begin with and I'm split on whether Grace's lack of posts is primarily due to being sick, or because Grace tends to have less to say as scum.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

@WeaponsofMassConstruction The level of detachment that Bartozio had to the vast majority of what was going on in the game just doesn't sit right with me though. Sure, there are nuances between town playing well, town playing bad, and town trying to adhere to good play. But the vibe I'm getting from him is one of contributing little unless directly asked, and not really caring about the game state. Dude was present for a few hours before D1 ended and barely gave thoughts on most of the stuff that had gone on.

It's kind of like how I felt that Marth was playing incredibly dispassionately in this game compared to his last. Also, having zero thoughts and/or comments on Elie and Eury's wall-off was pretty lame, even if it was just "I do not have the time for these wall posts lol". They cared enough to respond to people's joke claims, but no actual thoughts? Like, if he's town, he's playing very badly (sorry).

Grace's slot is my second priority, but I'd like to see something from beeboat because Grace did not have a whole lot of content to begin with and I'm split on whether Grace's lack of posts is primarily due to being sick, or because Grace tends to have less to say as scum.

I suppose I just get the opposite vibes then. Maybe it's cause I play like this as town sometimes.

I'm kind of struggling with a second, Cam was next up as the slot I have the most questions about, but even then I'm probably leaning town overall. Intuition says that could be deconstructed if I thought about multiball implications more, but I don't really have the motivation to do so right now. Third is even harder, I suppose it could just be DF; beyond that I kind of just want to deal with it when it comes to it.

[Sunwoo]

1 minute ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

I suppose I just get the opposite vibes then. Maybe it's cause I play like this as town sometimes.

I'm kind of struggling with a second, Cam was next up as the slot I have the most questions about, but even then I'm probably leaning town overall. Intuition says that could be deconstructed if I thought about multiball implications more, but I don't really have the motivation to do so right now. Third is even harder, I suppose it could just be DF; beyond that I kind of just want to deal with it when it comes to it.

You know, I don't remember what Bartozio's general meta is as either alignment, but I feel like I remember his town self being more in the midst of discussion. If I have time/motivation, I could probably dig through some old games with him and try to see if this is in-character for him. But I would like him to come back and give some reads and effort more than he did on D1.

What do you think about Grace's slot overall? Didn't you mention wanting to vote there at the start of the day?

[Percivalé]

I'll be home before my shift to post for real, will say I wouldn't mind putting my vote on bart lol but I'm gonna reread him before I do that, my feelings on him haven't changed a whole since when I switched my vote off him yesterday I was just pretty confident about marth being scum 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

13 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

You know, I don't remember what Bartozio's general meta is as either alignment, but I feel like I remember his town self being more in the midst of discussion. If I have time/motivation, I could probably dig through some old games with him and try to see if this is in-character for him. But I would like him to come back and give some reads and effort more than he did on D1.

What do you think about Grace's slot overall? Didn't you mention wanting to vote there at the start of the day?

Grace's slot definitely bothers me the most. Circumstantially I do find it odd she hasn't shown any enthusiasm to play given she wasn't in the previous game, though I'm not sure if she's been playing much elsewhere or what. I don't doubt whatever's happened irl has happened, but I can definitely see scum malaise being a factor for being inactive. Of the posts she's made (off memory), the first was ultimately pretty empty content wise and the second seemed a bit out place in the context of the thread (out of everything why was a j00 post the thing that stood out most/how come there were no thoughts on Marth/Bart, or anyone else really). Tonally also she felt rather combative, which I'm struggling to see the town perspective on.

[Aster]

(Huzzah, post limits are no longer an obstacle! Hopefully I can be more active in the game now!)

Bad news: more of us are out, rest in peace friends. Good news: we're starting to finally get some clues to work off of. This is always where games like this get way more fun.

4 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I think someone targeted me last night. Requesting that nobody target me again for any reason. BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN.

Oh snap, that's pretty spooky. Makes sense though, you're one of the most town-read players thus far, and I think this confirms it.

49 minutes ago, Percivalé said:

I'll be home before my shift to post for real, will say I wouldn't mind putting my vote on bart lol but I'm gonna reread him before I do that, my feelings on him haven't changed a whole since when I switched my vote off him yesterday I was just pretty confident about marth being scum 

Yeah, I'd say this is an overall good idea, just reread the forums for clues re: anyone we might be suspicious about. That said, I guess we do now have a pool of suspects in those who didn't vote for Marth and we can start there, though that's also not saying a lot since the pool is decently big.

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been?

Honestly, hard to say at this point but I'm leaning towards her shielding someone? There were a number of really early town reads between you, Percy, and Weapons (I also still think Jamie is town, they still have good vibes) so it's definitely not impossible she was protecting any of you. Granted, on the other end of the spectrum, it is kinda early in the game and from what I know of mafia/werewolf style games the martyr or bodyguard usually plays their role way more in the late game when they find someone with a role who needs protecting, which no one was really showing (which I could be wrong about), so it's also not impossible that she was a primary target as well. It could go either way it seems but with the amount of early town leads combined with the message Sun got I am leaning a bit more towards shielding, but not by a lot.

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

What do you think about Grace's slot overall? Didn't you mention wanting to vote there at the start of the day?

Given she was sick it's extremely hard to get a read on her, just gonna have to keep an eye on what Beeboat does going forward.

I think I'm gonna make like Percy and read through the posts again to see what might be up.

[Aster]

Oh Shinori I'm sorry I forgot. I do agree that he did read more town to a lot of people but it is somewhat surprising given it wasn't unanimous, but still read town so unfortunately not that surprising...

Speaking of which, kind of, re: the Bart reads right now it's also tricky to say, both Sun and Weapons are making sense to me. Like, Bart has been acting a bit chummy with Marth and generally seemed distanced from others, especially since they both voted Shinori and then Shinori died the next night anyway, but at the same time, Weapons does bring up a good point with how he was generally prodding and that's a good strategy. Keeping a tentative eye on him but not keen on wagoning just yet until we get more evidence.

[Percivalé]

I guess I'll mention I received something interesting last night, not anything game breaking/anything that provides us info today but I was mulling over whether I should bring it up or not

[Eurykins]

Alright, got some food hopefully coming soon- now to see what's been happening. 

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

How could you tell, if you feel safe explaining?

I'll do my best to pay more attention and be more active this time.

PLEASE. Do NOT ask for role-based information from anyone, unless role claims are being stated for specific reasons. Whatever information someone willing states is the limit of what they deem is safe to divulge or required to help protect other town (in this case, something that could potentially harm townside if they visit her again for ANY reason- protection, watching, or otherwise). The more information that is divulged unnecessarily, the more information the scum team has to identify townsided power roles and priorities for night kills.

Next, given more activity levels at this point, I would like to refer you back to Shinori's post from near end of D1:

On 7/17/2024 at 4:50 PM, Shinori said:

You don't need to look at how we know each other.

Has anyone done anything stand out to you?  Has anyone done something that doesn't SEEM right to you?

Has someone felt disingenuous in their tone or push against other players?  I'm trying to help you but you aren't really saying anything to further this.

Day phase ends in 10 minutes though so when day phase ends YOU CANT TALK ANYMORE.

This was your response to his post:

On 7/17/2024 at 4:55 PM, DefyingFates said:

Thank you very much for these prompts.

It feels like everyone's been testing the waters. There's been a lot of prodding people to get their thoughts on others, but right now I can't tell if that's genuine curiosity/ trying to start a conversation or trying to push an agenda - but maybe I'm just not savvy enough to pick up on such things. I might have suspected Eury but as I said earlier, that wallposts seem to be her MO and she is asking valid questions as far as I can tell.

It looks like Marth is getting lynched regardless of what happens though, so at least there's some small comfort that my indecisiveness isn't going to cost town the game at least.

Can you please offer a post with some thoughts on the posts/interactions/cases/etc. from D1? Impressions based on flips from N1? 

Despite Marth flipping scum, your vote on him (and lack of logic/actual commitment to it) was not good. And for as much as you were prompted for answers, asked for insight, etc. there was hardly anything given.

Who is scum? Who are you townread? What are any of your stances/thoughts on the players still currently present, and why? Did anything catch your attention when reviewing the thread/game state? @DefyingFates

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

On SF the mayor's vote always counts for twice (except when there are 4 or less players left). This explains why Shinori was being so cagey about voting, he most likely didn't want to give away his role.

General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been?

Agree with bolded- the less information scum has, the better. He also did contribute a large portion to a lot of discussion, pressure, and overall presence in the game, as it left scum wondering what slot he held as well- I've seen mayors hide their power to vote to even do quick-hammers when people don't expect it in past games.

For the question: I actually don't know. I don't recall j00 being heavily townread as yourself, Shinori, or Percy, so it's very possible that she shielded someone else. Hard to tell though.

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As for who j00 was protecting, everyone was pretty confident Eury was town, right? She's one of the few you all seemed to agree on in that regard and she also had a lot to say, so I can imagine the mafia wanting to take her out of commission ASAP.

??? I was on one of the top 3/4 Wagons (Bluedoom - Bart - Myself - Shinori? Us last two had 2 or 3 votes depending on the time of the D1 phase). Some have put me in townside, while some others did not. I would not have named myself the top townread player by any means, and I don't recall j00 having particularly strong feelings either way on me, unless I missed something in a past post? (So I don't see her as having chosen me in particular to protect, above more obv!town reads.)

4 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

I kinda doubt this due to her and Elieson’s argument, scum would rather go for cleaner town imo.

^^^^ Is what I'd assume. 

4 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Martyr generally exists to take a bullet for a stronger role (or a super townie player), and in some rare cases might be the only protective role, so it's better for them to act than not if they have a strong role or player to protect.

The only time I've seen wills in SF games is as part of someone's role. There was also a very old game from before I played here that used them as a game mechanic, but otherwise it's not standard.

I guess it also depends on whether scum feel they could mislynch Eury or not. In the absence of obvious roles to shoot like cop or doc, SF scum tend to go for players whom they don't think they can mislynch. I remember one game where a player who was almost the D1 lynch was still the N1 kill because the scum team felt that he'd never actually be mislynched and he's a very strong player.

Granted, our meta is almost a decade old at this point, but I do recall that Eury tended to not be a popular nightkill option for scum when she played.

I don't actually recall getting night killed that often, likely due to more experienced players like yourself, BBM, Prims, or Shinori being considered FAR MORE of a threat than I ever was in Mafia games. It hurts, but I know I've tunneled and got super distracted in games before, and maybe it's partially due to wall posts as well. ;_; It's hard to tell though- it's been literal years since I've touched Forum Mafia games so that probably doesn't help either. 

3 hours ago, Elieson said:

Well, I'll eat my words. Marth wasn't town. I was all set to post up a shitton of stuff but the scumflip completely demotivated me to do just that. I'll put more content out later, after i finish decompressing after work, and then after i move furniture around s'more.

I think j00 probably -was- a target, due to just kinda being like a coasty "decent enough" read to probably avoid getting lynched via other means, and also being unlikely to have drawn in attention for protection. if I were scum, or SK, I'd probably have shot her, but we all know that I don't shoot when I'm SK, so that's just theoretical mumblings.

From what I'd read, I thought people were fairly divisive on Me/Eury being sided in any particular way. I saw people saying all sorts of things.

Let us remind ourselves of both, who was voting for Marth (excluding Shinori, who said he would've iirc, but didn't for obvious reasons), and think about things from there. It feels like a good starting spot? IDK, I don't feel like I recall j00 leaving a strong enough impression to stand out in any capacity to warrant extensive distancing, but Shinori was more vocal and garnered more attention. IDK; multiball is stupid and typical scumhunting methods clearly aren't the way to go. Excuse me while I devour this Subway sandwich and lament out loud now that I can finally do so.

I do recall you being pretty dang confident in him flipping town last day phase in the event that he was lynched. Was your townread on his slot purely on the basis of gut vibes/issues with prods/meta with him? If so, does this change the light in which anything he said/did last day phase for you? How much does this change what you were "expecting to post" once D2 started- does j00/Shinori flips impact any of said reads?

Also the bolded notion brings up the possibility that j00 herself may have been the actual target, rather than dying protecting someone else. Who would stand to gain the most from killing her, rather than someone more prominent from D1? (From my perspective, Sunwoo/Percy/Shinori/Weapons to some extent [I don't recall if there were many issues with this slot]? read decently well overall throughout D1- what would be the chances that townside would have enough protection to protect more than one of the names mentioned?) I can understand why Shinori was attacked last night, being a very bold and active voice in D1, and realistically one of the strongest townreads most players had. But why j00 as the other target? 

3 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Upon reread I guess Grace's slot could also be on one of the scum teams? Her most definite reads were suspicion on j00 and Shinori (although the j00 suspicion was expressed late in the phase and never got to vote there) and probably would've voted Shinori had he been a viable wagon at that point. Thought that both Elie and Eury looked weird and didn't seem to like either of them much. Also voted Eury for consolidation instead of Marth, although that only matters if Grace and Marth are buddies. Her earlier post mentioned not wanting to give Fates a pass for new player logic, although she didn't really express thoughts on Fates himself. Besides that, there's a lack of real thoughts on other players.

I also get that she was sick and just subbed out. Which is why I'm trying not to hold it against her too much, but it is something that I'm wary of. Would like Grace's sub beeboat to post thoughts as soon as they're able to.

I hate to say this, but I don't recall who Grace is (in the sense of Mafia games way back), referring to meta context so I don't have that to work with. I agree that being sick is something that can and does highly detract from attention to a game/thread. 

I also understand though, that each player (subbing in for someone else) can have an entirely different PoV/take on reads from the previous player. From what was explained above, j00/Shinori suspect was given by Grace's slot, I was voted over Bluedoom as consolidation, and I don't recall the stance on Bart's wagon from D1? (Would need to check this, brain is blanking on their stance atm.) What should we keep in consideration from interactions in D1, verses incoming in D2 post-sub? Especially if reads swap based on player swap?

2 hours ago, CT075 said:

speculating on whether j00 was protecting someone and/or why she'd be the target is pointless, we'll never know unless the shooter decides to fess up

(also, I am getting on a train tomorrow so my activity will be spotty again SOZ this game started at a really bad time)

I don't disagree with the italics (unless more information was presented regarding the situation), but it was asked earlier by Sunwoo, so responded accordingly. 

2 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Fuck it gonna hard defend Bart. I was trying to figure this slot out in particular last night and on reread actually felt like his play checked out. In particular with the one reads post, I feel like listing Eury as town makes sense given that the two haven't played much with each other (if at all) so the perspective of "Eury is doing stuff which is weird [which you'd have to agree with], but people are saying this is just how she plays, so I'll trust them" makes a lot of sense. Beyond that as he says, he's picking an alignment for everyone on purpose, which while probably unnecessary I'd agree, makes sense from a town perspective of trying to adhere to a principle of good play. And really that's how I feel about Bart in general, is that while there's stuff to point to as scummy, I don't see there being scum intent over town who doesn't care about standard play and with their own ideas of how to play the game. All that said I'm not necessarily hard townreading Bart either, just that I don't think that there's really anything suspicious there. Who would you go after next (if you didn't already say)?

(quick question how readable is this, I am trying to work on my eloquence but it is hard to put together, pls help, how does everyone else do it)

NK wise I thought Shinori/Percy were probably likely targets. I thought I might've been as well since I think most people were townreading me, but not sure to what extent. Agree that j00 probably wasn't the intended target; not even sure martyr is bodyguard but I guess we can't know for sure without full flips!

Does this (Bolded) make sense? I understand that Meta gameplay observation probably plays a LOT heavier into gameplay than maybe it should, but at the same time, to go from Scum-reading someone into trusting them based on one or two player's read on me seems odd. Unless he has a distinct reason to trust the reads/the players behind said reads? I had my own questions about it, because it felt... odd to buy someone else's read when it seemed so opposite of what he himself considered from my slot. (Pretty sure he said he outright was scum-reading me?)

1 hour ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

I suppose I just get the opposite vibes then. Maybe it's cause I play like this as town sometimes.

I'm kind of struggling with a second, Cam was next up as the slot I have the most questions about, but even then I'm probably leaning town overall. Intuition says that could be deconstructed if I thought about multiball implications more, but I don't really have the motivation to do so right now. Third is even harder, I suppose it could just be DF; beyond that I kind of just want to deal with it when it comes to it.

What questions are you referring to on Cam's slot? Was there something unanswered from end of D1 that is causing concern or issues with the slot?

58 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Grace's slot definitely bothers me the most. Circumstantially I do find it odd she hasn't shown any enthusiasm to play given she wasn't in the previous game, though I'm not sure if she's been playing much elsewhere or what. I don't doubt whatever's happened irl has happened, but I can definitely see scum malaise being a factor for being inactive. Of the posts she's made (off memory), the first was ultimately pretty empty content wise and the second seemed a bit out place in the context of the thread (out of everything why was a j00 post the thing that stood out most/how come there were no thoughts on Marth/Bart, or anyone else really). Tonally also she felt rather combative, which I'm struggling to see the town perspective on.

From what I recall in prior posts, Grace wasn't feeling well, but can be taken with a reasonable consideration.
With regards to the tone- did it come off as unnecessarily defensive (like scum being prodded?) or potentially due to health and other reasons? Grace was admittedly unmemorable for me in D1 (I need to read what posts they had, because I don't recall feeling strongly either way on this slot, and current posts have called concern to light that requires more consideration.)

51 minutes ago, Aster said:

(Huzzah, post limits are no longer an obstacle! Hopefully I can be more active in the game now!)

Bad news: more of us are out, rest in peace friends. Good news: we're starting to finally get some clues to work off of. This is always where games like this get way more fun.

Oh snap, that's pretty spooky. Makes sense though, you're one of the most town-read players thus far, and I think this confirms it.

Yeah, I'd say this is an overall good idea, just reread the forums for clues re: anyone we might be suspicious about. That said, I guess we do now have a pool of suspects in those who didn't vote for Marth and we can start there, though that's also not saying a lot since the pool is decently big.

Honestly, hard to say at this point but I'm leaning towards her shielding someone? There were a number of really early town reads between you, Percy, and Weapons (I also still think Jamie is town, they still have good vibes) so it's definitely not impossible she was protecting any of you. Granted, on the other end of the spectrum, it is kinda early in the game and from what I know of mafia/werewolf style games the martyr or bodyguard usually plays their role way more in the late game when they find someone with a role who needs protecting, which no one was really showing (which I could be wrong about), so it's also not impossible that she was a primary target as well. It could go either way it seems but with the amount of early town leads combined with the message Sun got I am leaning a bit more towards shielding, but not by a lot.

Given she was sick it's extremely hard to get a read on her, just gonna have to keep an eye on what Beeboat does going forward.

I think I'm gonna make like Percy and read through the posts again to see what might be up.

The fact that there were posting limits kinda shocks me (disregarding like, punishments or such for people posting inappropriate things)- I didn't know SF had that as a thing lol.

Question regarding bolded: This is true, though we do need to keep in mind that it's a Town vs Scum vs Scum2. And from what we know in the rules, each team has their own WinCon, and with there being BAT and RAT (separating the two scum teams), they likely are trying to win with their own teammates. Meaning that one scum team may not hesitate to shelve of at least one of the other scum team in order to continue playing to their own con, though I would expect them to still aim more for town than scum if possible, as town still outnumbers scum.

So the question I have is: Who are, of those or off the wagon of Bluedoom, the players that are worth checking into the most, based on interactions/reads on Bluedoom and otherwise in D1? Anyone in particular you're eyeing?

35 minutes ago, Aster said:

Oh Shinori I'm sorry I forgot. I do agree that he did read more town to a lot of people but it is somewhat surprising given it wasn't unanimous, but still read town so unfortunately not that surprising...

Speaking of which, kind of, re: the Bart reads right now it's also tricky to say, both Sun and Weapons are making sense to me. Like, Bart has been acting a bit chummy with Marth and generally seemed distanced from others, especially since they both voted Shinori and then Shinori died the next night anyway, but at the same time, Weapons does bring up a good point with how he was generally prodding and that's a good strategy. Keeping a tentative eye on him but not keen on wagoning just yet until we get more evidence.

*I suppose part of the question just above is answered by this post, got cut while posting. Would Scum!Bart risk being openly chumming with a scum buddy whose wagon never really slowed by end of D1? Is there something else he hoped to achieve by his posts/actions that would imply scum intent, or was he concerned that his own wagon would be pushed up ahead if Bluedoom's one didn't occur on D1?

I am glad we were correct on Bluedoom, but I'm not certain how to handle Bart, as I cannot claim to know his meta or playing style (As stated earlier, I don't think Bart and I really played many games together in the past, which was YEARS ago). Based on in-game content and his interactions with D1 lynch, I don't know if anyone would cling to a wagon that really didn't stop moving for most of the day phase knowing how Bluedoom would flip (this assuming him being Bluedoom's partner). On the other hand, it doesn't prevent Bart from being scum anyways, but part of the secondary group (scum keeping other scum around still gives more power to scum side rather than townside, which still helps their wincon until numbers get lower- with 2 kills enabled per night so long as both scum teams exist). I do believe that Sunwoo's case on him is solid, and I had my own concerns last day phase as well, which is why he and Bluedoom were my top prios for the day.

I want to hear from a few others (Elieson and DF especially) because the flips between D1 and N1 is starting to air out a lot of things from last day phase, which may help us possibly catch another and potentially put an end one of the scum teams if we can find Bluedoom's partner (Finding another member of the other scum team would be fine, but removing Bluedoom's partner means one less kill a night, which heavily pushes it into townsided favor imo.)

[Percivalé]

hmmmm I've got a theory but it's later than I thought it was and I dunno if I have time to get into it tonight but I promise I will before the day ends

[Sunwoo]

All right, so I did go back and read a game where I knew Bartozio was town. And, uh, yeah, he was definitely more aggressive and participatory in that game than he was here. I'd like to note that the game was from 7 years ago, but it also feels like most of us returning players haven't really changed our basic tone even if we don't play exactly the same. I'll look for a game where Bartozio was scum to look for comparison, but I would like to note that D1 isn't his normal town meta.

I feel kinda bad about this, but I do remember town!Grace in the past being a lot more active and posting more often, even when sick or busy. As town, Grace had a tendency to keep reading and posting even when she noted that she was not well. Scum!Grace had a tendency to use being sick and busy as a reason to not be as active, in comparison. That said, considering that she was the second to last person to sign up it could be that she didn't really have her heart into it and that along with being sick is more of a reason for the inactivity, but ... I am wary.

Would also like to see more activity within the next 24 hours, this game is not all that active/the same few people keep posting. Will also advocate a lynch on any scummy player slots who do not post at all within that period.

[CT075]

cleanup on some things that i really should have addressed before. I am currently (re)reading Bartozio and the cases thereon (and so I won't be saying much about that wagon in this post). I can't promise my full thoughts until I'm no longer in-transit but please feel free to beat me up if I forget again

On 7/17/2024 at 11:42 AM, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

I want to say maf can get away with casing people more liberally  in multiball and town reads will just get in the way later, but (what does that mean) it’s not really significant and town tells are probably flippable anyway; what were your thoughts 

I don't have any major objection to this statement from a scumhunting perspective; I mostly wanted to see if you were making up an excuse to get out of committing to a read by saying "uhhhh multiball". By-and-large my thoughts are that the multiball aspect only really comes into play when we start digging into associative/flip reads; any further speculation is going to rely on knowledge that we wouldn't otherwise have (e.g. how would you know about scum faction interactions if you weren't scum yourself?)

On 7/17/2024 at 1:10 PM, Elieson said:

I also wanted some reactions, and boy howdy, I sure got some

Like what? Are these reactions purely *from Eury*?

On 7/17/2024 at 5:55 PM, DefyingFates said:

It feels like everyone's been testing the waters. There's been a lot of prodding people to get their thoughts on others, but right now I can't tell if that's genuine curiosity/ trying to start a conversation or trying to push an agenda - but maybe I'm just not savvy enough to pick up on such things. I might have suspected Eury but as I said earlier, that wallposts seem to be her MO and she is asking valid questions as far as I can tell.

I'm gonna need you to start being more specific and try to stop second-guessing yourself. I know it can be intimidating and confusing to try to assert yourself amongst a bunch of aggressive veterans but that's just part of the game, and leaning on that fact as a crutch isn't helping anyone, let alone yourself.

I gave you something to chew on here (open the spoiler for some more specific questions), what do you think? For something more immediately relevant, why might you have suspected Eury? You mention that "wallposts seem to be her MO", does that mean that you think that "wallposting = scum"? If not, why does wallposting being Eury's regular style make her less likely to be scum? What is a "valid question" to you? How do these questions help advance your (and, more broadly, the rest of the town's) understanding of people's alignments?

5 hours ago, Eurykins said:

??? I was on one of the top 3/4 Wagons (Bluedoom - Bart - Myself - Shinori? Us last two had 2 or 3 votes depending on the time of the D1 phase). Some have put me in townside, while some others did not.

It's like, strictly true that Eury was "one of the top wagons" at EoD1 but does anyone actually think that she was a viable wagon? It never made it over three votes and I think it would have been a pretty hard sell what with Boron, j00 and Marth (I swear there were others, but I couldn't find them so maybe I hallucinated that) all stating that they thought Eury was town. Like yeah Marth was scum but a) multiball and b) we didn't know that at the time, so it's still relevant in a "could someone realistically have swung a lynch".

I am personally still fairly sussed out by Eury; she is no longer vote-sitting on the noob but the thought that I voiced here is living rent-free in my head. I'll decide whether to vote over it in my next post

fuck it, i keep promising to talk more and then not following up, so money where my mouth is it's still early in the day ##vote: @Eurykins