CT075 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 also going to say ahead-of-time that I'm not going to engage with any of the meta arguments because it's lowkey kind of impossible to argue against. I don't even think that it's necessarily invalid to scumread someone over it, but I don't even know how Bart could self-defend against a meta argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 32 minutes ago, CT075 said: It's like, strictly true that Eury was "one of the top wagons" at EoD1 but does anyone actually think that she was a viable wagon? fwiw regardless of whether I agree that Eury could have been a "top townread", there is no use in speculating whether Eury was or was not the actual kill target that got protected by j00 because we'll never know and it's not clear to me what we could hope to do with the information even if we did know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 okay so I reread Eury more and I'm feeling a lot better about the slot. I can elaborate on the turnaround later if anyone is curious but I also think that they'd overlap a bit with what I want to hear from @DefyingFates WRT my last post and I'd like to hear their thoughts without potentially answering the questions I asked for them. Instead, let's check out this direction: 13 hours ago, Sunwoo said: General question for everyone, do you guys think j00 was the primarily target or do you think she was shielding for someone else? And if she wasn't the original target, who do you think might have been? ##vote: @Sunwoo What are you hoping to accomplish with this question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) Mod Votals 2.1 Bartozio (1): Sunwoo Sunwoo (1): CT075 Not Voting: Aster, Elieson, WeaponsofMassConstruction, Percivale, Eurykins, DefyingFates, Beeboat, Bartozio, JamieIsBored Phase ends in approximately 33 hours and 20 minutes, at 6PM EST on July 20th. With 11 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline and 6 to hammer. Edited July 19 by BBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 47 minutes ago, CT075 said: okay so I reread Eury more and I'm feeling a lot better about the slot. I can elaborate on the turnaround later if anyone is curious but I also think that they'd overlap a bit with what I want to hear from @DefyingFates WRT my last post and I'd like to hear their thoughts without potentially answering the questions I asked for them. I'll get back to you on this. I'm a bit busy at the moment but once I'm free there are a few things here I want to double check too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Catching up but @Eurykins Grace = Manix, a player that I don't recall you playing with all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 ##Vote: @CT075 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieIsBored Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 10 hours ago, Eurykins said: PLEASE. Do NOT ask for role-based information from anyone, unless role claims are being stated for specific reasons. Seconding this. Claim games are both a) boring and b) potentially very dangerous. 4 hours ago, CT075 said: (I swear there were others, but I couldn't find them so maybe I hallucinated that) I think she’s town, I said it in like a one line post rather than on my reads list (here). Granted I worded it really weirdly so I can understand you not seeing it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 I've had to read back multiple times and start taking notes because I'm not retaining information very well ##Vote: @Aster my aforementioned theory was aster is scum, have been keeping in mind she's new to mafia but her posts especially recently feel like scum expressing town sentiment for town points which I think new scum can be prone to doing. (theory 1.1 is that she's scum with an inactive partner who hasn't been around to coach her/give her much advice.) do I believe she's marth's scumbuddy is another beast but I will note this early interaction between them which would be way easy enough to fake as scumbuddies. I noticed she addressed her passive play because that was another thing on my radar, I think the explanation for it is fine (being used to amogus wherein playing passively is the meta) but in that case she's playing to what she thinks is expected of her as town either way. for that reason the passiveness itself is probably NAI but I'm always going to eye people who delay voting anybody (especially when they openly have scumreads on ppl but don't vote them, afaik that doesn't really apply here though). the reluctance always reads like scum worried about taking chances, sticking out, committing to their reads etc. additionally if aster has played enough amongus in the past to be accustomed to a certain playstyle then it's not impossible she knows how to fake town play as scum this post aside from playstyle context is kinda empty, waffles on some guys (shinori and bart), mostly piggy backs off of the opinions of other people. the piggyback thing is something aster's been doing a lot. I would like to see more reads/opinions from her that aren't directly echoed off other players. I think the meatiest content from her has been the paragraph in this post speculating j00's martyr target. (theory 1.2 is that aster is scum with bart but neither have flipped so this one's whatever. but I noted two instances aster's said "bart did something that made me kinda sus but on the other hand it's probably nothing.") a few ppl brought up DF's vote on me & my long answer to that is that the vote didn't bother me because I assumed it was RVS+getting a feel for how the game works & the reason he stated later for the vote was fine cam boron vote doesn't bother me too much but that might change depending. boron's question was kinda weird but right now I don't think she's scum. the shinori vote by bart at end of d1 was bad though and if he ends up being the elim today I'll consolidate I'm going to re-read jamie/DF/elie/eury after I sleep, aside from my personal bias (eury playing to her town meta) I haven't been following them very well lol. if beeboy doesn't post today grace slot maybe probably should be vigged or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartozio Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Imagine being wrong about all three flips this night. Couldn't be me.... I'm going to have to reevaluate a lot of things today... For starters about the night kills: I'd guess J00 redirected the shot to herself and Shinori was shot because mafia wanted to avoid being blocked by a doc. I also don't think there's much to gain from debating this too much though, since even if mafia actually decided to shoot J00, it doesn't tell us too much (and we won't know for sure either way). @Sunwoo I'm not going to defend my play so far, because I'm not too proud of it anyway. I do want to ask you one thing though. Looking at your posts, I see you're mostly confused about why town!me would ever play like this. The main thing I want to ask: Do you think my play actually does make sense as scum? If so, why? @Eurykins I'm going to dig up your wall where you asked me a bunch of questions, but as for why I'm sheeping people claiming this is your town meta: My read on you at the time Blue said this really wasn't that strong. Sure, gun to my head I would have said scum, but if people who know you a lot better than I do claim this is your town meta and you sound very different as scum I'm willing to take their word for it. If it was just Blue, it would be one thing, but at this point 4 people have said as much (2 when I made that reads post). If I'm never going to listen to other peoples input, how can I expect them to listen to me? I'm going to reread things now, but I wanted to get those out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 RE: grace slot, I wasn't worried about her play seeming less motivated because she doesn't enjoy playing mafia too much recently. wouldn't be surprised if the slot is scum though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 11 hours ago, Eurykins said: Who is scum? Who are you townread? What are any of your stances/thoughts on the players still currently present, and why? Did anything catch your attention when reviewing the thread/game state? Okay, let me give this another shot. On 7/17/2024 at 11:12 PM, BBM said: Bluedoom (6): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00, Percivale, Eurykins, JamieIsBored, CT075 Shinori (2): Bluedoom, Bartozio Bartozio (2): Sunwoo, Elieson Eurykins (1): Grace Not Voting: Shinori, Aster, DefyingFates So my understanding is that I should look out for people overly friendly with one another for signs of Mafia, so right now my eye's on Bart. Not only were Bart and Marth the only ones to vote for Shinori who was proven town, Marth was proven to be mafia. We know why Grace didn't talk much: she was sick, so I don't think it's fair to say her inactivity was due to her being mafia or anything. I don't want to put Aster on blast because they're new (though they've acclimated much faster than I have). Percivale was quick to forgive me voting for him which I think points to him being confident he could argue his way out of trouble if votes piled up, i.e. he's town. Similarly, a bunch of people are saying you're in "town" mode and I feel mafia would be more focused in their questioning compared to you who's been questioning everyone. Sunwoo feels like they've been doing the same thing to a lesser extent so I want to say your two are town too. Apart from the above and myself, the ones who haven't said much are Weapons and Jamie I think? So I'm curious about those two right now. On the other hand Jamie is one of the people who pinged me while I was away and I'm guessing mafia would have let me rack up a bad reputation in front of everyone else so I'd be prime lynching fodder on D2+. So to sum it up, I'm suspicious of Bart and Weapons and unsure of the rest? The above assessment is probably full of rookie mistakes and oversights though, it turns out I'm worse at reading people than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 weapons has been falling under the radar a little bit but the wordless cam vote strikes me as something he'd do as town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 everyone's falling under the radar tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 45 minutes ago, Percivalé said: weapons has been falling under the radar a little bit but the wordless cam vote strikes me as something he'd do as town How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 10 minutes ago, DefyingFates said: How so? just that it aligns with his playstyle but this is a meta argument so you don't have to take any stock in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 33 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: everyone's falling under the radar tbh do you want to elim cam today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 33 minutes ago, Percivalé said: do you want to elim cam today yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 2 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: yes understandable have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 uh, was there something for me to rebut in there, or should I just accept it and move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 7 hours ago, CT075 said: ##vote: @Sunwoo What are you hoping to accomplish with this question? Things that I don't want to elaborate because it won't benefit the town but I need to know if I'm going to be functional. In other words, I really only care about whether she targeted me or not!me. I'm not interested in lynching Cam today, sorry. 3 hours ago, Bartozio said: @Sunwoo I'm not going to defend my play so far, because I'm not too proud of it anyway. I do want to ask you one thing though. Looking at your posts, I see you're mostly confused about why town!me would ever play like this. The main thing I want to ask: Do you think my play actually does make sense as scum? If so, why? I think your play makes sense as scum playing badly. Obviously no one tries to or wants to play badly, but just based on what happened in the previous game people who haven't mafia'd in a long time who roll scum suffer from demotivation or difficulty faking reads and being less active than they would as town. So yes, while I cannot see scum playing like this consciously on purpose, I could see someone who's not excited to roll scum half-assing it and it coming out like this. Again, if you really are town, impress me before the day ends. So, I know that beeboat has a new account and that new players have had general issues with post limits, but if they literally do not post at all today, I'm in favor of eliminating this slot because I don't feel good about Grace's slot anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartozio Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 @Sunwoo That's fair. Having said that, I'm honestly coming up empty here. My read on Bluedoom last phase is that he tried to come in defending me and Eury for easy towncred, then got demotivated when the wagons at EoD where himself and those two people. Him being demotivated made me suspect DF for voting there as the number 5, as I could very much see a demotivated Blue tell him to do that for some towncred. The problem with that theory though is DF unvoted soon after, which kind of wastes any cred he might have gotten out of it. Speaking of votes, you'd think there were at least some easy townreads to get from Blue's wagon, but unfortunately not really. Imo, J00, Percy and Eury are the people who pushed it to a serious wagon, which gives them major towncreds. Sadly, one of them is dead and I was townreading Percy and Eury before the flip anyway. Weapons did keep his vote on Blue literally since RVS (which is kind of wild), but I can also see him vs Blue being an attempt at distancing that kind of went horribly wrong when Blue suddenly got a good amount of votes and Weapons felt stuck. For the record, that's not me saying I'm scumreading Weapons for this, just that I'm not hard townreading him for voting Blue early. Upon a reread his posts feel natural enough and voting scum all day is hardly a bad thing. Jamie and Cam just voted Blue to make a lynch happen. Which is good play, but it's good play as either alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Is there any player you think is scummy regardless of their stance on Marth? Assuming this game works like a normal multi-ball, where neither scum teams are aligned with each other, is there anyone you think can be scum who is not Marth's scum buddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 7 minutes ago, Sunwoo said: Is there any player you think is scummy regardless of their stance on Marth? Assuming this game works like a normal multi-ball, where neither scum teams are aligned with each other, is there anyone you think can be scum who is not Marth's scum buddy? Six people voted for him, maybe some of them were the Blue mafia teaming up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, DefyingFates said: Six people voted for him, maybe some of them were the Blue mafia teaming up? I mean Sure, it's possible that at least one person on the Blue team was on Marth. But if we ignore things related to him, are there any players you think are suspicious based on what they've said or done (or aren't doing)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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