Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[Sunwoo]

I need to sleep, so this'll probably be my last post until I wake up in a couple of hours, but if we don't get reads and stuff from Bartozio and/or Elie by the 24-hour mark, how do you guys feel about using that 1-time extension?

Also, I get that people are busy and have lives, but I'm starting to wonder if this level of activity might not also come from somewhat demotivated scum? Like ... I think scum that's both IRL busy and have lost their partner might stop caring about the game nearly as much. Town can be busy and demotivated too, but I feel that there are some subtle differences how they interact with the game? I don't know, the general nothing from Bartozio and Elie's slots is just making me super paranoid.

Unrelated to the above, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Weapons' old meta may be the least relevant of the old metas. Which means that Revival is the only example of current Weapons' meta.

We should also probably assume that the person who shot Eury was most likely town reading her by D2, so maybe keep that in mind when cross-referencing potential people who could be Marth's scum buddy.

[Aster]

53 minutes ago, CT075 said:

@DefyingFates, @Aster can I get your thoughts on whether you think there's remaining scum on the end of D1 Bluedoom wagon, if so, who, and why?

for your records:

Bluedoom (6): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00, Percivale, Eurykins, JamieIsBored, CT075

A little more awake, I very much keep waffling out of fear of a mislynch again which we can't afford at this stage (better than letting another kill happen though) but until I hear some further explanation I think my biggest suspect is still Weapons out of this group.

[Aster]

10 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, I get that people are busy and have lives, but I'm starting to wonder if this level of activity might not also come from somewhat demotivated scum? Like ... I think scum that's both IRL busy and have lost their partner might stop caring about the game nearly as much. Town can be busy and demotivated too, but I feel that there are some subtle differences how they interact with the game?

That's...actually a really good point. Never thought of it like that, but I still wanna hear a bit more from them before voting for either.

[DefyingFates]

13 minutes ago, Aster said:

A little more awake, I very much keep waffling out of fear of a mislynch again which we can't afford at this stage (better than letting another kill happen though) but until I hear some further explanation I think my biggest suspect is still Weapons out of this group

I'm in the same place and still suspect Weapons for pretty much the same reasons as D2. I'm willing to wait a while before voting though.

[Bartozio]

17 hours ago, BBM said:

Eurykins has died! She was Light Yagami, the BAT Sneak Thief.

I knew her not voting Shinori during RVS was a scum tell. Shouldn't have believed peoples meta reads after all.

Leaving aside how terrible my reads have been this game, I'll join the club and mention my night action has also failed. I did not target Jamie though (and neither does my ability have a build in reason for failure).

Townreads right now would be Sunwoo, Weapons and Fates.

Sunwoo has been pushing to get things going pretty well, and the whole watcher claim feels a bit to elaborate (she'd need to have started in D2 with the whole "don't target me") to be fake.

Fates was targeted by Eury over Aster (unless I'm remembering Eury's posts even worse than I think), which feels very weird for scum to do with their buddy in this setup, and he also doesn't really make sense as Marth's partner for me with the whole hop on hop off vote. Which leaves him as town.

Weapons feels pretty... casual I guess? He went against Marth casing him pretty hard with a vote and kept it there the whole day, and last phase they were pushing for a Cam lynch with no explanation. That doesn't feel like someone who cares too much about what town might think about them, which should be exactly what scum would care about.

That leaves me with 4 people in my PoE. I honestly don't think Marth and Aster interacted with each other at all, outside of Marth prodding them together with Fates once. Elie and Marth were kind of casually defending each other in remarks, though not too strongly. Elie did also vote me D1, but I honestly feel at that point the Marth lynch was set anyway, so it barely matters what he did. Marth didn't talk about Cam or Jamie at all, and they I think just voted him at the end to make a lynch happen. Cam even defended Marth a bit earlier by asking what the cases were all about.

So yeah, could be any of these.

I'm going to need to read back up on things for Eury's partner, since I honestly only skimmed a lot of her posts.

 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@DefyingFates what kind of setups are you used to playing (like what roles do people have, are there a lot of vanillas, etc)?

[Sunwoo]

3 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Leaving aside how terrible my reads have been this game, I'll join the club and mention my night action has also failed. I did not target Jamie though (and neither does my ability have a build in reason for failure).

;/

I don't necessarily think Cam asking what the cases on Marth were about is too indicative. I didn't understand the early cases on Marth either and I didn't start thinking he was scum until after he continued to not contribute and didn't vote either of his counter wagons.

Also, I do want to note that because we don't need a hammer to lynch we need to go one step beyond the usual wagon analysis. I didn't vote Marth because we were at deadline lynch without me and I didn't want to hammer and end discussion, for example.  So keep that in mind as well.

@Elieson What are your current reads and lynch priority?

[Bartozio]

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, I do want to note that because we don't need a hammer to lynch we need to go one step beyond the usual wagon analysis. I didn't vote Marth because we were at deadline lynch without me and I didn't want to hammer and end discussion, for example.  So keep that in mind as well.

Is this specifically related to anything I said? Because I'm not used to a hammer being required to begin with.

[Sunwoo]

Kind of a general note, kind of a response to "Jamie and Cam only voted Marth to make a lynch happen".

[Bartozio]

4 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Kind of a general note, kind of a response to "Jamie and Cam only voted Marth to make a lynch happen".

Fair enough, but they both gave that as a reason to vote Marth

[Sunwoo]

Yes, and I don't think it's telling of either of their alignments.

[Sunwoo]

Reading through thread again, looking at ISOs and vote counts.

One thing I didn't really notice until I looked through the votals history is that Eury's the one who really swung the wagons towards Marth. In the previous vote count, we had a bunch of small wagons with 2 votes max. Percivale changing his vote to Marth removed a vote from Bartozio, but Cam also threw on a vote for Eury. By the time the next votals were publicly posted, Shinori also had 2 votes. What's interesting is that in the post where Eury voted for Bartozio (scroll down to the bottom, it is LONG), she gave Marth as being equal to Bartozio.

It's fair to note that at this point, Bartozio really only had one vote on him (me), but I think that Bartozio could've been a realistic D1 wagon if Marth wasn't leading with twice the amount of votes as everyone else at this point. Grace also pushed Eury to 3 votes afterwards, then Bartozio put Shinori back at 2 and asked Grace if she weren't willing to switch back to Shinori, clearly trying to make Shinori the counter wagon.

Also interesting to note is that Elie unvoted Eury after she got pushed to 3 votes.

What's really odd is that Marth says that Eury and Bartozio are being pushed as his counter wagons, but he doesn't want to vote either of them. Except at the point when he claimed, the only person voting Bartozio was me and he was not any more a viable wagon anymore than Fates. Marth's vote was on Shinori, who had the same number of votes as Eury. And yet Marth doesn't acknowledge Shinori as a counter wagon he's willing to lynch. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Like, Elie and Bartozio both have weird and notable interactions with Eury and Marth. But the fact that the teams are non-aligned and don't know who each other are make it really hard to tell who makes more sense as whose scum buddy.

I suppose it's likely that Marth and Bartozio are non-aligned and Marth's trying to white knight someone whom he thinks is a clear mislynch. But that doesn't eliminate the possibility of Bartozio being Eury's scum buddy, since Eury made noise about him and while she claimed to agree with my case on him D2 didn't actually vote for him (or anyone, actually).

This is a bit of an odd observation, but Eury seems to use me as an excuse or reason for Bartozio-related things in D2. In addition to what I posted above, she notes how I'm giving him some leeway in D2 and that while she doesn't agree fully she's also lowering her priority on him. (It's near the bottom and bolded.) She also puts him below Fates.

They also had this discussion on the value of shooting Shinori, which ... I mean. I don't know. If they were scum buddies, they would've been on the same page about who they would shoot. Do I think this interaction is faked? I don't know, but it's kind of dumb and didn't really contribute to anything.

Bartozio has been harping on Cam and Jamie voting to get Marth lynched since at least this post. And has been harping on Jamie generally, period, for being relatively experienced but not memorable.

Mafia is hard more people need to exist when they can

[Bartozio]

Alright, I somehow managed to read through all of Eury's walls, and in terms of likely partners I'm currently at:

Aster >> Jamie > Cam >> Elie.

I don't think the Elie vs Eury wall off is impossible to fake, but I'm leaning more towards it being real. Eury basically spend all of D1 talking about Fates and Elie, and I'd find it strange she'd pick her one single scum buddy to focus on so much.

Cam and Jamie are honestly fairly close. There's no huge interactions or anything that jumped out to me, but Eury and Cam were a bit more antagonistic than Eury and Jamie.

Aster is where I was really surprised though. Eury pretty consistently has Fates as her main (or tied) scum lead throughout the game for passive play and not wanting to vote. However, at least imo, Aster played basically exactly the same way and she barely even mentions him. Heck, when Percy made a case against Aster, Eury even defended the passiveness to some degree:

On 7/20/2024 at 12:47 PM, Eurykins said:

I recalled the post prior in which the case was mentioned. I don't disagree with some of the points, but I did have a few questions about it: @Percivalé

1. You stated that Aster commented on their own passive gameplay and that is something that pinged you. I don't personally believe that acknowledging a fault in gameplay (IE. Stating that a case is weak, or that activity levels are low, etc.) has much scum intent, unless it's used as constant justification/excuses for continuing to perform poorly or not attempt to contribute to the scumhunting. Do you believe that Aster is using it as a front to avoid giving reads and contributions during the day, which would lend itself to scum intent to not actually be participating? 

2. You mentioned the piggybacking (sheeping?) of reads, but others have also stated that they have sheeped reads based on meta or such. I agree that purely sheeping is bad though (no effort in doing anything themselves), and if that's what you were noting, I agree with this notion.

3. Has there been any content in D2 from Aster that impacts any of the case concerns you posted from D1? And if so, is it better or worse?

My own thoughts on the Aster case/vote: I see your points, and I agree that it has its merits. However, I have also seen in rare times that players can opt to play in passive/almost self-conscious states, and we're also seeing some players playing in a manner that is devoid of votes and commitment to any form of lynch/consolidation (looking at DF here), which can be directly detrimental to town as well. Will expand on more on this in the final reads below.

...

BEE SLOT = DF > Bartozio > Aster  Is how I currently stand on the situation. I am equally fine with either of the first two, the third only if something changes on the first two slots DRASTICALLY.

(for reference, I quoted her post but cut out all but the relevant parts. You can find the original post by just clicking the quote).

I have a hard time explaining this if both are town tbh, since scum!Eury should be more than happy to have two people to cause misslynches on.

##Vote: @Aster

[JamieIsBored]

13 hours ago, CT075 said:

Current (crackpot?) theory is that one of Aster and Fates was Marth's partner, which would explain why he (Marth) was so demotivated at the end of D1 because I think even an experienced scum player would have had trouble redirecting that lynch, so a new player would have had no chance in hell.

It can't be that crackpot if two people think it, right?

13 hours ago, CT075 said:

Do you think both BAT members were on the wagon?

Wasn't directed at me, but I don't think so. I'm town, I trust you a lot Cam and Weapons is towny for me. 

12 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

(Is *YLO announced?)

Rules say it isn't. 

[JamieIsBored]

6 hours ago, Bartozio said:

(unless I'm remembering Eury's posts even worse than I think)

Yeah, Eury went for Fates D1, I don't recall her opinions on Day 2 though.

1 hour ago, Bartozio said:

Aster is where I was really surprised though. Eury pretty consistently has Fates as her main (or tied) scum lead throughout the game for passive play and not wanting to vote. However, at least imo, Aster played basically exactly the same way and she barely even mentions him. Heck, when Percy made a case against Aster, Eury even defended the passiveness to some degree:

This is a really good catch. Also Eury having the big go at Fates on not voting and then Aster doesn't vote at all Day 1. In fact, the only vote Aster has put down was on Weapons D2 and I think that was because of the Cam vote that Weapons originally said nothing about.

@Bartozio Who do you think is most likely to be Marth's partner?  

[Sunwoo]

I wouldn't be opposed to an Aster lynch because the Eury interactions are indeed kinda weird. But I'm just kinda annoyed with the general lack of activity right now.

##Vote: Extension

Basically, we need to hear from @Elieson and @Aster today at least. I'd also be in favor of both of them claiming a bit earlier than when bee claimed on D2, so we have more time to react accordingly and stuff, but that depends on whether the rest of you think it's a good idea.

[JamieIsBored]

##Vote: Extension

Agreed that we need more time. Especially this close to -Lo. 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

honestly im not sure i want an extension yet. it kinda is just elie waiting room and i don't think more time will be fruitful until/unless he shoows up

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

yeah maybe it is just aster actually

[Elieson]

no i'm legit here now and reading. Expect a thicc post within 47 minutes

 

If ##Extension is allowed, put me down for it.

 

Guys, don't move after a hurricane, and play mafia. it's bad.

[BBM]

Well, 1/3rd of players have asked for an extension, so a 24-hour extension has been granted. This will not be granted again.

Mod Votals - 3.2

Elieson (2): Sunwoo, CT075
Aster (1): Bartozio
Not Voting: Elieson, DefyingFates, Aster, JamieIsBored, WeaponsofMassConstruction

Day 3 will end in approximately 44 hours and 40 minutes, on July 24th at 6PM EST. With 8 alive, it takes 3 to lynch at deadline and 5 to hammer.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

oh okay ##Vote: Extension then

yeah the more i think about it, the more it just does seem like aster has no real interest in scumhunting. maybe it is just that simple

[Elieson]

rereading through D1 hasn't given me much, but rereading through D2 is giving me a minor scumread on CT075. will explain why as i actually build a case and see if it checks out at all

[Elieson]

On 7/18/2024 at 5:09 PM, Sunwoo said:

I think someone targeted me last night. Requesting that nobody target me again for any reason. BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN.

I didn't even notice this last time. I think outting this painted a target on your back, and made you more appealing to target over Night 2.

  

On 7/18/2024 at 11:54 PM, Eurykins said:

I don't disagree with the italics (unless more information was presented regarding the situation), but it was asked earlier by Sunwoo, so responded accordingly. 

Something about this response to Cam, feels like it doesn't add up with her general posting style of very grammatically correct and consistent. Good use of prepositions all over the place, but this line stuck out to be and her not phrasing it as "so I responded accordingly" feels like a mistake, which is the only one I can garner out of her wallposts as far as something inconsistent between the players that she responded to.

This from Eury, combined with a relatively recent (to her wallpost) followup that Cam posted a string of, opening with a vote on Eury and then a quick hop off, when he was already hesitant about voting her to begin with, almost feels like he voted her just to look like he was giving her vote and therefore some attention, since at the end of his uninterrupted string of posts, he votes for Boron.

##Vote @CT075  

 

On 7/19/2024 at 5:58 AM, CT075 said:

Like what? Are these reactions purely *from Eury*?

Since I was asked this directly; Nope. From anyone really.

 

More comin.

[CT075]

36 minutes ago, Elieson said:

when he was already hesitant about voting her to begin with

eh? I was literally on Eury for 90% of D1? In fact, I was the only one on Eury other than you since D1?

Do you think that Boron's insistence on speculating about unknowable night actions is reasonably without the extra context of her claim?