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What One Change Would You Make to Your LEAST favorite FE Game?


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15 hours ago, SnowFire said:
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“Prince Marth!  We need ya to settle a dispute in the northwest of Altea.  Ever since the swine Hollstadt came, he's been playing us off against each other, inventing petty privileges he can dispense and revoke at will.  You gotta step in.  The village of Gen to the east was crushed under Grust's heel for so long, but their count Eliwood made a deal.  He's now been put in charge of Iga to the west, which used to be the more prominent of the two villages.  If you can offer him a pardon and continuation of his rule under the Altean banner, I'm sure he'll let you have his best man, the Paladin Arran, in gratitude.  Flip side, if you visit Iga to the west and offer their mayor his standing back, I bet that cowardly Eliwood would turn tail and run.  I bet the Hero Sampson, a native of Iga, would be happy to serve you in gratitude. Give it some thought: the hero to the west, or the paladin to the east?”

Now do this 30 more times for every other little thing in Shadow Dragon...

I think the bigger issue to address would be why the crown prince of Altea is being educated on the presence of two villages kinda REALLY close (probably?) to the Altean Castle and the decorated soldiers living in either, rather than this long winded explanation that calls into question Arrans character and really, just opens up more questions. 

On that note, how would Marth even know what Morzas is talking about? Dragon boy is sitting alone on a throne talking to himself about the woman he killed. The few guys in his room are probably side-eyeing him like the weirdo he is. Imagine they have two tin cans with a string between for pre-battle talk.

43 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

I always say maddening is a garbage difficulty. The easiest way to annoy me is to say "just play hard". My brother in Christ, I can't. There is no game there.

Just need to get through the first 5 (not because they are difficult but because they´ll bore you to death) chapters and chapter 13 (haha) and you are golden with your shiny   End-Turn simulator.

48 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Yeah I'll agree with you there. I think I'm on an identical but smaller boat as Jotari, who I assume likes the Archanea game a lot, and has a large investment in the plot that basically has to be obtained through outside factors because the real games explain jack shit.

No lore? Truly the Dark Sou- *gunshot*

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More like ''least favorite FE route'' than game since I have a very positive opinion in Three Hopes. Just not on Azure Gleam.

There are two way the route can be fixed. The most logical is to have Edelgard just bitch slap Thales back into line when he forgets his place. But if the incompetent mole men really must take over then at least introduce Slitherer Patricia so the new antagonists overthrowing the old one have some credibility. Patricia also fits far better as Dimitri's nemesis than Thales since she deceived Dimitri into thinking she loved him like a son only to plot the murder of him and all his loved ones. 

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On 8/16/2024 at 12:31 PM, Shaky Jones said:

You're so kind!

I'm not owned! I'm not owned!

On 8/16/2024 at 12:31 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Rom Hack: FE6 but Roy speaks like the 15 year old he is.

Roy sucks for most of the game, but he really improves once he picks up the Skibidibinding Blade.

On 8/16/2024 at 1:25 PM, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Actually, in all seriousness, I´m removing Norne from SD, redheads and especially redhead archers are too powerful.

That's it, now you're making the list of heroes... I mean, monsters!

On 8/17/2024 at 12:59 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Me when no more Mercedes Annette B support

> Recruit Annette into the Black Eagles

> Get her to B-support with Mercedes pre-skip

> Side with Edelgard

> Build Annette as a physical Wyvern and give her a Brave Axe

> Face Mercedes as an enemy in chapter 17

"Oh yeah, it's all coming together."

21 hours ago, SnowFire said:

And hell, this is in Altea, where people should in theory be MOST willing to jump to Marth's cause, rather than somewhere else!  Also we have an army!

Not only that, but apparently, Samson was so anti-Arran that, after Arran allied with Marth, Samson allied with Sheema. You know, the princess of Gra? The nation that stabbed Altea in the back, causing their former King to die? That Sheema.

21 hours ago, Florete said:

Alternatively, create a 4th difficulty between hard and maddening.

Finally: Hardening mode. It's like Hard mode, but enemy defense increases every turn.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

aka Canaris aka

"Canaris"? Wasn't that one of the Deadlords?

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

when Byleth just lets Rodrigue die and then Dimitri's biggest leap into sanity is just "yoUr HanDs aRe sO wARm"

Dimitri's character arc is literally him going "u so warm".

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10 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Just need to get through the first 5 (not because they are difficult but because they´ll bore you to death) chapters and chapter 13 (haha) and you are golden with your shiny   End-Turn simulator.

"When does the gameplay start to pick up?"

"This is the gameplay!"

"YIPPIE!!!"

*+30 avoid* *end turn*

10 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

No lore? Truly the Dark Sou- *gunshot

jAWHBVv.png

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Roy sucks for most of the game, but he really improves once he picks up the Skibidibinding Blade

Zephiel might just kill himself hearing that.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

> Recruit Annette into the Black Eagles

> Get her to B-support with Mercedes pre-skip

> Side with Edelgard

> Build Annette as a physical Wyvern and give her a Brave Axe

> Face Mercedes as an enemy in chapter 17

"Oh yeah, it's all coming together.

KiDRbY0.png

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Dimitri's character arc is literally him going "u so warm".

Byleth doing nothing to stop Rodrigue's death:

TA2zpSL.png

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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

God damnit Kaga

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris

(It's another Nazi)

This one's not on Kaga. I was referring, of course, to "Canis". But, those Deadlord names - latinizations of the Chinese Zodiac - only came about when Awakening was localized. Before, they were just named for the first twelve numbers, auf deutsch.

8 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

KiDRbY0.png

Me, when I get somebody killed off to see their death quote, only to turn back time and bring them right back. And then do it a second time by accident.

8 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Zephiel might just kill himself hearing that.

That's a little extreme, couldn't he just move to Ohio instead?

8 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

When does the gameplay start to pick up?"

"This is the gameplay!"

"YIPPIE!!!"

*+30 avoid* *end turn*

"Let's play the 'Not-playing-the-game Game'!"

"How do you play?"

Hits "Wait" button

"You're already playing it!"

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2 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This one's not on Kaga. I was referring, of course, to "Canis". But, those Deadlord names - latinizations of the Chinese Zodiac - only came about when Awakening was localized. Before, they were just named for the first twelve numbers, auf deutsch.

I actually knew that and was trying to set someone up to correct me so I could then connect counting to 12 in Germany with Nazis, but I suppose I should have foreseen that not working since any correction would naturally bring up the German to begin with. But inexplicably connecting Kaga to Nazis is funny damnit. I can't explain why but it is. And, yes, of course, Canis for Canine and not Canaris

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On 8/17/2024 at 10:32 PM, The Roger The Paladin said:

What is going on here? Something positive about Engage? What have you done with the real Wraith?

How to completely rewrite it and make the story work Roger, I’m not saying anything positive about what the game itself did well.

On 8/18/2024 at 2:07 PM, Shaky Jones said:

A test? In 2024? Get real. Everyone cheats nowadays. You can't stop it.

There is no freedom from me, only through me.

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On 8/19/2024 at 8:02 AM, Shaky Jones said:

jAWHBVv.png

image.png.0367c3cb683b49e85e076efa69ddb4b1.png

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

But inexplicably connecting Kaga to Nazis is funny damnit.

It´s not. 

On 8/19/2024 at 2:48 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

> Recruit Annette into the Black Eagles

> Get her to B-support with Mercedes pre-skip

> Side with Edelgard

> Build Annette as a physical Wyvern and give her a Brave Axe

> Face Mercedes as an enemy in chapter 17

"Oh yeah, it's all coming together."

Annette "Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne" Dominic

On 8/19/2024 at 2:48 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not only that, but apparently, Samson was so anti-Arran that, after Arran allied with Marth, Samson allied with Sheema. You know, the princess of Gra? The nation that stabbed Altea in the back, causing their former King to die? That Sheema.

What Mov-Envy does to a mf. 

On 8/19/2024 at 8:02 AM, Shaky Jones said:

"When does the gameplay start to pick up?"

"This is the gameplay!"

"YIPPIE!!!"

*+30 avoid* *end turn*

Three Houses truly is the idle game of Fire Emblem.

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2 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

 Three Houses truly is the idle game of Fire Emblem.

Is it more idle than the Idol Game is idol?...I just saw the word Idle and needed to do something with TMS there.

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Fates isn't my least favorite game but it does have some of my least favorite writing. Small changes won't be enough to remotely fix the mess, but I tweaking team Garon would be a gigantic step in the right direction. Not even gigantic changes but just light tweaks to the dialogue could make a huge difference.

Not making Hans and Iago joke characters would be a start. The scene with Garon going ''Well of course Iago fails! He always does!'' can be scrapped. Firstly because it lowers the threat level of someone who's supposed to be a thorn in Corrin's side, but also because its out of character for Garon. Throughout Fates Garon keeps trying to execute people just for being in the same room as him, but we're supposed to believe he'd not execute someone like Iago who he thinks is both useless and annoying? In general Iago should be written less as a clown who only survives because he hides behind Garon's skirt, but as someone who can at least do harm on his own.

For Garon he should be written less extreme. Rather then him shouting ''HE'S STANDING IN THE SAME ROOM AS ME! KILL HIM!'' the entire game he should just be a normal evil king who has dialogue beyond that one line. There is one singular scene where Garon is semi reasonable and says Corrin completing the job is more important then doing it in the exact way he wanted it. We need more of that Garon and less of the Garon who kills people just for standing next to him

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On 8/24/2024 at 12:13 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Fates isn't my least favorite game but it does have some of my least favorite writing. Small changes won't be enough to remotely fix the mess, but I tweaking team Garon would be a gigantic step in the right direction. Not even gigantic changes but just light tweaks to the dialogue could make a huge difference.

Not making Hans and Iago joke characters would be a start. The scene with Garon going ''Well of course Iago fails! He always does!'' can be scrapped. Firstly because it lowers the threat level of someone who's supposed to be a thorn in Corrin's side, but also because its out of character for Garon. Throughout Fates Garon keeps trying to execute people just for being in the same room as him, but we're supposed to believe he'd not execute someone like Iago who he thinks is both useless and annoying? In general Iago should be written less as a clown who only survives because he hides behind Garon's skirt, but as someone who can at least do harm on his own.

For Garon he should be written less extreme. Rather then him shouting ''HE'S STANDING IN THE SAME ROOM AS ME! KILL HIM!'' the entire game he should just be a normal evil king who has dialogue beyond that one line. There is one singular scene where Garon is semi reasonable and says Corrin completing the job is more important then doing it in the exact way he wanted it. We need more of that Garon and less of the Garon who kills people just for standing next to him

I’m a huge Fates fan and I agree with all of the above. As much as I love the Fates cast, the antagonists who aren’t playable characters (with very few exceptions) aren’t very interesting and get way more screen time than they warrant. 

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On 8/17/2024 at 3:27 PM, eevee_em said:

For Fates: Turn down the characters so that they're less over-the-top and comedic. While not ideal, I don't mind characters based around a single trait or "gimmick" - In fact, I like the casts of Awakening and Engage on the whole. But a lot of the Fates characters have such outlandish personalities, and those traits are leaned on so heavily, that they lose the capacity to take part in serious discussions. The most obvious example is probably Arthur- if he's not falling victim to his horrible luck, then he's arguably acting out of character. And the fact that the game is trying to tell a serious, tragic story just makes the absurdity of the characters more glaring.

On 8/24/2024 at 12:13 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Fates isn't my least favorite game but it does have some of my least favorite writing. Small changes won't be enough to remotely fix the mess, but I tweaking team Garon would be a gigantic step in the right direction. Not even gigantic changes but just light tweaks to the dialogue could make a huge difference.

Fates is probably my least favorite and I definitely agree with these as little changes that would go a really long way. The think I would change though is completely change the art style and designs in the game. From what I can tell people really like some of the designs in the game, but I just can't handle them. It feels like every part of that game tries to prey off of horndogs people who are really into avatar worship and shipping. The designs definitely function to reinforce that, and changing them probably would improve my experience of that game a lot. Make all the characters look their age, or even a little older (especially the lolis). Give the characters normal proportions and outfits that actually make sense (I know you can IS. You did a good job with SOV in this respect). Make the villains look normal for once, maybe even competent and heroic. And I know that Fates created somewhat of a gold standard for menus and such, but I have never been a fan of those either, so we can totally overhaul those as well.

On 8/15/2024 at 11:05 PM, Jotari said:

Also I'd put a Gaiden character in there as a playable cameo

On a side note, this is a great idea for FE3. I'm curious as to who you think would make a good cameo. I vote for Tatiana who would most likely be chasing after Zeke/Sirius/Camus after he left suddenly without notice.

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5 hours ago, Nauriam said:

Fates is probably my least favorite and I definitely agree with these as little changes that would go a really long way. The think I would change though is completely change the art style and designs in the game. From what I can tell people really like some of the designs in the game, but I just can't handle them. It feels like every part of that game tries to prey off of horndogs people who are really into avatar worship and shipping. The designs definitely function to reinforce that, and changing them probably would improve my experience of that game a lot. Make all the characters look their age, or even a little older (especially the lolis). Give the characters normal proportions and outfits that actually make sense (I know you can IS. You did a good job with SOV in this respect). Make the villains look normal for once, maybe even competent and heroic. And I know that Fates created somewhat of a gold standard for menus and such, but I have never been a fan of those either, so we can totally overhaul those as well.

On a side note, this is a great idea for FE3. I'm curious as to who you think would make a good cameo. I vote for Tatiana who would most likely be chasing after Zeke/Sirius/Camus after he left suddenly without notice.

Yes, Tatiana, but not because she chased after him, but because they came together and our out there fighting as a power couple.

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15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yes, Tatiana, but not because she chased after him, but because they came together and our out there fighting as a power couple.

Fuck it, that. That's what NMotE needed.

Let me solo Gharnef with Tatiana.

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I would not making Engage such a fanservice game that ruins potential worldbuilding and character developing. That choice to bring back old characters robs the game of fleshing out its cast more.

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On 8/27/2024 at 9:10 PM, Jotari said:

Yes, Tatiana, but not because she chased after him, but because they came together and our out there fighting as a power couple.

I'm here for this, but only if Tatiana comes up with her own disguise and alias. In spite of Ezekiel's... I mean, Camoo's... I mean, Sirioo's insistence that it doesn't matter, nobody will recognize her. No way - she insists on braiding her hair, wearing an eyepatch, and calling herself "Thalassiana, scourge o'er the western seas!"

On 9/2/2024 at 5:58 AM, Mizerous said:

I would not making Engage such a fanservice game that ruins potential worldbuilding and character developing. That choice to bring back old characters robs the game of fleshing out its cast more.

I can't stand Engage, but I think they did a good job of making the characters stand out from one another, via their designs and personalities. Some of them had really bad designs or annoying personalities, but they were nothing if not distinctive. I don't think the Emblem rings really undermined this characterization, since the Emblems were just barely characters in their own right.

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40 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm here for this, but only if Tatiana comes up with her own disguise and alias. In spite of Ezekiel's... I mean, Camoo's... I mean, Sirioo's insistence that it doesn't matter, nobody will recognize her. No way - she insists on braiding her hair, wearing an eyepatch, and calling herself "Thalassiana, scourge o'er the western seas!"

Nah fam, if the Char Aznable expy goes through his Quattro phase, then Tatiana should be dressed like Lalah Sune. Or Haman Kharn?

On 8/27/2024 at 6:10 PM, Jotari said:

Yes, Tatiana, but not because she chased after him, but because they came together and our out there fighting as a power couple.

Only for then her to be kidnapped by Gharnef's men, becoming the fifth maiden at the Dragon's Table. Sirius can then save one... and as soon he does, the other gets killed.

---

Anyway, to contribute... hmm... which one is my least favorite... I guess the very first game just by default? If so, my change would be... that it got a worldwide release back in the day. And hopefully that dominoes things...

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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm here for this, but only if Tatiana comes up with her own disguise and alias. In spite of Ezekiel's... I mean, Camoo's... I mean, Sirioo's insistence that it doesn't matter, nobody will recognize her. No way - she insists on braiding her hair, wearing an eyepatch, and calling herself "Thalassiana, scourge o'er the western seas!"

To be fair to Thalasssinana, Camus really didn't have to make a third identity for himself when no one is going to question the name Zeke if he provided it.

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On 8/15/2024 at 6:04 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

For Engage, the thing that made me stop playing was... that damned Engagement Ring paralogue. The game tells me it's a "kill boss" map. I look at it, and start to get cheeky. Realize "hey, I can set up a first-turn boss kill!". I set up my army accordingly, giving them just the tools they'll need to satisfy the stated objective. It's tight, but I manage to eat through all the boss' "revival stones" (don't get me started) and clear the map on turn 1.

Except... I haven't beaten the map. The victory condition just changed, right under my feet. They just "Foreign Land and Sky"ed me. My units, who were set up merely for the bosskill, left ill-equipped for the remainder of the map. That was when I turned off the game, took out the cartridge, and haven't returned since.

To be fair to Engage, it has a huge improvement over Foreign Land and Sky here in that it gives you a full turn to react to the change in Victory Condition. By this I mean as soon as you kill the boss player phase ends, the brand new enemy reinforcements appear, and without any enemy units moving or acting at all enemy phase ends, and it opens back up with a new player phase with all your units able to act. That gives you a full turn to deal with whatever positioning you ended up with after the boss kill, which is usually enough to salvage things.

 

I have put off posting in this thread, in part because I am not entirely certain which game is my least favorite at the moment, and as initially described I though it might be as uninteresting as the post it was based off of, when the change in target fundamentally changes the topic.

 

Let me start with one of the best options for Three Houses, adding a Branch of Fates like mechanic so I don't have to play through as much nearly identical content to see all the routes. I would love to say don't have repeated content at all, but there simply wouldn't be enough left of Three Houses (why they felt the need for four routes when they had at most 1.5 routes worth of content I don't understand, but they did). As I see it, the most logical place to have the split is after Soft Lock by Dawn for the three extremely similar route, with Edelgard's route being the only one to start in Snoring Clouds, as seeing the same map from the opposite side is a lot more creative than most Three Houses maps get. How exactly that Branch of Fates like system will work with all the mindless grinding that Snoring Clouds is supposed to give all your units I am too lazy to contemplate in too much detail, maybe a menu with some options for how you spend your class, weapon, and unit type exp, on each unit, a set level for all units to be, a menu for each unit's current class, and a final one for outside class units recruited, but there may very well be better, and less complicated ways to deal with that.

 

I also want to put two out there for Shadow Dragon, one story based and one gameplay based as it was my least favorite Fire Emblem for a long time, although Fates: Revelation did soften my view on it as I feel those two games are interesting to play for similar reasons (as they are both at their best when used as the basis of a challenge run). For the story fix, its real simple when characters are having conversations have them with more people, where all of those people talk. To emphasize what I am talking about lets look at the ending story segment of chapter three, which features a "conversation" with Malledus and a cardboard cutout of Marth's face

Quote

 

(Chapter End)

Malledus:
“Sire! Would you look at this! Those rogues left 15,000 gold here when they fled! This money will buy plenty of new equipment for your army. Tomorrow is the day, sire, when we finally arrive in Aurelis. Be sure to rest up tonight.”

or how about when a similar thing happens at the end of chapter 8, that chapter which contains the reason Marth is invading the neutral Pyrathi

Quote

 

(Chapter End)

Malledus:
“Sire, it’s too dangerous to stay here. We must flee to Pyrathi. There are risks there, too- the Pyrathi king Mannu is said to be a descendant of the dragonkin, a Manakete. Still, we’ve no other recourse. We’ll just have to take our chances… Keep your wits about you, sire.”

Now I am cherry picking a bit here, as every now and then actual conversations occur, and to show a random example of the end of chapter 13 let's say (fun fact the reason chapter 8 was included was it took me a few tries to find an ending scene with multiple of the people involved at talking like this, and chapter 8 is a funny example given the Pyrathi love of some users).

Quote

 

(Chapter End)

Nyna:
“Spectacularly done, Marth. …Does something ail you? I thought you would be happier.”

Marth:
“Today, there was this commoner… She mentioned Grust was divided about the war. Some of its people wanted to fight with Altea, she said…Ever since I lost my father and kingdom, I’ve held nothing but hate in my heart for Gra and Grust…but not once did I give any thought to what must have been going on in their heads.”

Nyna:
“And now you find your hate for them has been lessened?”

Marth:
“No… the hate remains. I will never forget the pain they inflicted upon me, the rage I felt. Yet now, at least, I can tell you it’s not just hate…Not anymore.”

Nyna:
“Not all evils are wrought of evil purposes. Perhaps this sounds naive, but…A true leader needs to look at his opponent and see more than just an enemy.”

Marth:
“….”

 
 

And look at how much better the writing is when multiple people are talking. Replace those talking to a Marth shaped brick wall moments alone would be a massive story improvement, but I am taking it a step further, the ancient technology of the GBA showed that four whole people talking was possible, and having those added interactions would give the writing even more room to improve. Have people relevant to the chapter talk, made Hardin a more prominent member of this games story, there are plenty of directions to go with this step, and I am too lazy to go through all the possibilities here, but that is my one story improvement.

As for my Shadow Dragon gameplay improvement, I would make each unit have a list of class change options be tailored to them, as opposed to the weird gender based option they have now. While class changing added a lot of interesting options to the gameplay, I find it also stripped out a lot of personality of the units that the older games were able to inject in their characters based on the combination of the role their classes filled and the way their growths and stats interacted with that, and adding in a little uniqueness to the class change system is a compromise that keeps the gameplay improvements while keeping a little bit of flavor for why one might use Roger over Barst.

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36 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

To be fair to Engage, it has a huge improvement over Foreign Land and Sky here in that it gives you a full turn to react to the change in Victory Condition. By this I mean as soon as you kill the boss player phase ends, the brand new enemy reinforcements appear, and without any enemy units moving or acting at all enemy phase ends, and it opens back up with a new player phase with all your units able to act. That gives you a full turn to deal with whatever positioning you ended up with after the boss kill, which is usually enough to salvage things.

It's also done at the very start of the chapter. So you will have enough divine pulses (or whatever they're called in Engage) to undo any potential bad set up you might have made. But, overall, the enemies tend to swarm in from the sides of the map, so I don't think it's ability to mess you over is that great even if you do overextend yourself. Foreign Land and Sky meanwhile has its gotcha moment at the end of the chapter when you might very well have no divine pulses left and your units could be right beside the newly spawning bosses (one of which has a long range tome). I'm not exactly defending either mid chapter change in objective, but Foreign Land and Sky is way, way worse.

36 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

and chapter 8 is a funny example given the Pyrathi love of some users).

No,  it's only me 😞 I'm just very loud about it.

Edited by Jotari
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Picking Fates Birthright as my least favourite, I would make Silas the traitor informing Iago about the movements of the Hoshidan army. This way, that subplot has more of a purpose. Heck, if they make Silas` reasons sympathetic, it could help make the conflict less black and white, but that is conjecture on my part. 

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