Junkhead Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Since it's that simple, why not move Sigrun over Gatrie as well? I WAS REGARDING THE CONTEXT OF TWO UNITS IN THE SAME TIER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) Expect to hear from the pope on this, because if I recall correctly, his parade of retards benefited considerably from the extra Physic range on Rhys. The healing undoubtedly saved a lot of potential RNG abuse. Hi. I didn't "RNG abuse" in my play through either, and I will say that I found Rhys's Physic range pretty useful overall. Pocket Mist was about the only use I had for Mist barring a few minor situations. Rhys can also Shove a few units like Shinon and Ulki (untransformed). Edited May 18, 2011 by _M_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) So Nolan tanks 1-1 and 1-2 all by himself? No wonder he's High tier. He actually can. But ok, Edward's usefulness is minimal somewhat useful in 1-1 as he does help lower turncount, and in 1-2 he isn't really needed. Nolan can easily take them on and help get Tani as well. All in 7 turns which is what laura usually takes getting there. Sothe can also get the drop in this time frame. Edited May 18, 2011 by Jhen Mohran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognit0 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Rhys heals way more with Physic than Mist does. Rhys hits for around 34 whereas Mist does about 10 less than that, which often doesn't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Rhys heals way more with Physic than Mist does. Rhys hits for around 34 whereas Mist does about 10 less than that, which often doesn't cut it. The question is, when will it really matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 When one of your units that is hurt and is far away, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 What, do you think I hate you or something? I've always sided with Mist. Do you think if you suddenly wanted Sothe in Top tier that I'd immediately drop him? I am certain that you don't, since such a base emotion would be unworthy of your Solomonesque duties. No, there is a certain internal logic, so if I argued Sothe for Top, you'd probably consider putting him in Easy Mode. He actually can. But ok, Edward's usefulness is minimal somewhat useful in 1-1 as he does help lower turncount, and in 1-2 he isn't really needed. Nolan can easily take them on and help get Tani as well. All in 7 turns which is what laura usually takes getting there. Sothe can also get the drop in this time frame. So in other words, even though Eddie is demonstrably useful past 1-P, it doesn't count. Well, I think that Manith's joining chapter doesn't count, because I don't like her face. I guess you and I are at an impasse. Pistols at dawn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 So in other words, even though Eddie is demonstrably useful past 1-P, it doesn't count. Well, I think that Manith's joining chapter doesn't count, because I don't like her face. It hurts him when he can easily get killed and get us an annoying game over . I guess you and I are at an impasse. Pistols at dawn? Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 We can plan the Wrath kills, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 We can plan the Wrath kills, you know. You mean unreliable wrath kills that may have us resetting because he missed the crit and got hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuglyoshi Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 You mean unreliable wrath kills that may have us resetting because he missed the crit and got hit? I think he means something like this: Edward at full HP enemy attacks him Edward now in Wrath range WRATH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 You mean unreliable wrath kills that may have us resetting because he missed the crit and got hit? I'd assume we'd be using Wrath on the enemy phase: Enemy puts Edward into Wrath range, and Edward critikills him. Just have to make sure there's only one enemy that can reach Edward, which does limit the applications of the skill on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Mist has better bonds (and her bonds matter, FWIW) +5 crit to units that she has no business standing next to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognit0 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 The question is, when will it really matter? 3-4 It is really important because that first turn where Haar drops Ike up there they are at the mercy of mages and the wyrmslayer dude. Also important in 3-11 because of the big number of mages Haar will face. In these two chapters, Mist is literally incapable of healing Haar/Ike due to the fact that he will be too far away; plus the extra HP healed is nice. Every other chapter, it just means Rhys is a little bit better at Physic Healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I'd assume we'd be using Wrath on the enemy phase: Enemy puts Edward into Wrath range, and Edward critikills him. Just have to make sure there's only one enemy that can reach Edward, which does limit the applications of the skill on him. Doesn't really help him much, specially in 1-1 where in the begining there are many figthers that can get to him. Fighters which miccy and Eddy can safely sipose off after Nolan hits them on EP. Wrath Eddy isn't that much more useful than normal eddy really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 +5 crit to units that she has no business standing next to? No, Mist doesn't have a bond support with Oliver. Instead, she increases the crit range of Boyd (whom she matches MV with, and is someone that could use the offense since he has trouble doubling), Titania (for when on the road in her saddlebags), and also turns Ike into an honorary Swordmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Useful against Generals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I WAS REGARDING THE CONTEXT OF TWO UNITS IN THE SAME TIER. So what you're suggesting is that all flying units should be top of their respective tiers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Deadly Sins Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 So what you're suggesting is that all flying units should be top of their respective tiers? Presumably only if the rest of the tier is Armor Knights exclusively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 So what you're suggesting is that all flying units should be top of their respective tiers? Jill has the movement, utility, and stats to back it up. Jill is the reason 3-6 is finished so damn quickly because she Brave Axes the Cats (who she should ORKO at around 20/5-20/7) and Tigers (who she gets 4x on early, which leads to a 3-4HKO). Gatrie...has poor movement in his early chapters which hinders him. Especially once Haar joins and Titania promotes, effectively finishing chapters within five turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silith Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 No, Mist doesn't have a bond support with Oliver. I thought they were old lovers from PoR with a +20 bond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Oscar(T) might be slightly underrated. Just looking at base stats here, he's pretty comparable to someone like Shinon. Oscar(T) 38 HP 22 Str 24 Skl 23 Spd 17 Def 13 Res Shinon 43 HP 21 Str 28 Skl 24 Spd 20 Def 14 Res I will grant that Shinon's extra 1 Spd(there are a lot of 20 AS enemies the first 2 maps) and crit give him slightly better offense, but it's much closer than normal Oscar. Add in that Oscar has Canto, +2 Mov, and better enemy phase offense and they seem like they should be closer. Oscar's 24 AS Tier 2 cap does get in the way a little, but 24 AS should double most non SM enemies until 3-7 where can take the Dawn Brigade's Master Crown. 26 AS then lasts Oscar through the rest of part 3, and 65% Spd growth lets him keep up with enemies. Shinon's better in 4-E due to Double Bow and a better Tier 3 Spd cap, but I'm not seeing a tier's worth of difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Jill has the movement, utility, and stats to back it up. This should be good for a laugh. Jill is the reason 3-6 is finished so damn quickly No, she isn't. The main things that let you finish 3-6 quickly is Beastfoe, Volug, and Nolan. Jill doesn't have great offense or great durability in this chapter. because she Brave Axes the Cats (who she should ORKO at around 20/5-20/7) Jill needs to be level 20/7 to be able to double Cats, but even at that level she only doubles the level 14 and 15 Cats which are about a 3rd of the map. In addition, her accuracy is quite poor, only about 70 display at neutral biorhythm, and she can go lower. and Tigers (who she gets 4x on early, which leads to a 3-4HKO). Level 16 Tigers, who form the overwhelming majority of Tigers in 3-6, have 50-52HP and 20DEF. So a level 20/7 Jill only has a pretty poor 6HKO, and again, it's at a shaky hit rate of 75% display. Gatrie...has poor movement in his early chapters which hinders him. Especially once Haar joins and Titania promotes, effectively finishing chapters within five turns. Jill has poor stats in her early chapters which hinders her. Oscar(T) might be slightly underrated. Just looking at base stats here, he's pretty comparable to someone like Shinon. Oscar(T) 38 HP 22 Str 24 Skl 23 Spd 17 Def 13 Res Shinon 43 HP 21 Str 28 Skl 24 Spd 20 Def 14 Res I will grant that Shinon's extra 1 Spd(there are a lot of 20 AS enemies the first 2 maps) and crit give him slightly better offense, but it's much closer than normal Oscar. Add in that Oscar has Canto, +2 Mov, and better enemy phase offense and they seem like they should be closer. Oscar's 24 AS Tier 2 cap does get in the way a little, but 24 AS should double most non SM enemies until 3-7 where can take the Dawn Brigade's Master Crown. 26 AS then lasts Oscar through the rest of part 3, and 65% Spd growth lets him keep up with enemies. Shinon's better in 4-E due to Double Bow and a better Tier 3 Spd cap, but I'm not seeing a tier's worth of difference between the two. There's no 'might' about it. Oscar (T) has always been far too low and should be near the top of High tier. For example, what does Mia have against him in early Part 3? She's better against Generals and Swordmasters. Oscar wins mostly everything else, as well as movement on top of that. What does she have against him in late Part 3? She doesn't take a Crown and is still better against SMs and Generals, he still wins everything else. Mia wins Part 4, certainly, but Oscar is definitely better in Part 3, which is the lion's share of their lifespan (and Oscar (T) is okay in Part 4 as well if you can get him to double). Oscar (T) should either be just above Mia or just below her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 70 displayed hit is enough when she's getting 4x attacks. 20/7 Jill isn't impossible near the end of 3-6. She should be 20/4 anyway by the end of Part 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 So what you're suggesting is that all flying units should be top of their respective tiers? No, I mean Jill is better than Gatrie because she flies, has better Mov and doesn't take to much time to raise to become decent. Then Gatrie's needing the 3-3 Crown to keep his offense going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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