OMG it's a tier list

[Seph]

I've no need to explain, Vykan is definitely right on this. He should be above Laura.

[dondon151]

Also, I dunno how you could have Neph > people like Gatrie, the hawks, Ranulf and Elincia. She’s one of your worst units in part 2 and below average when she re-joins in part 3, that’s never going to compensate for her being the best wielder of the wishblade (even then, arguable w/ Tanith) in those match-ups.

Just curious, how would you compare Nephenee to Brom based on part 2 performance (or overall)?

That still isn't enough, in my opinion. Her stats are just so bad. Sure she can heal, but she starts at a base magic of 13, so her healing isn't that great. Plus, the GM's don't need a healer. Just give your units some vulneraries (you get several during part 3) and they're good to go. Come part 4, she's so pathetically outclassed by Elincia it isn't even funny. Actually, it is a bit funny. haha.

She's horrible combat wise, and really mediocre healing wise until her level gets higher. Overall, a very mediocre unit that doesn't really contribute much besides her average healing.

I don't know why people overrate the GM's power, but they still take damage fairly often and need healing. Vulneraries are not substitutes for healers; vulneraries compromise player phase. Elincia doesn't come till part 4, and Elincia doesn't go with Ike. Oops.

I think Rhys should be a little closer to Mist, though. If Mist has merit for being a healer in part 3, then Rhys should have equal merit. He can actually contribute offense when needed early in part 3 (granted, it's mediocre offense, but it's still more useful than Mist's next-to-zero offense), and both have incredibly bad durability early on (Rhys gets doubled and Mist gets doubled without some speed growth). Mist gets a mount late in part 3 or early in part 4, but during the interim Rhys's offense is better and both are unmounted, though Mist does have 1 move over Rhys.

Edited December 29, 2008 by dondon151

[Lord Raven]

Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but they will either hit it at some time in 4-E or will already have their important stuff capped. Still, deploying your 10 best units regardless of their level and packing on your best skills and weaponry onto them will make most of your deployed units wtfpowerful.

A bit? I don't see much past 20/20/8.

I know that but it forces someone to commit to making the trade whilst still being able to attack an enemy, be besides a support partner or some other useful function, so the restrictiveness is bad. What you get in return... Shinon w/ crossbow is easily losing to Haar, Gatrie and Titania with hand axes, Ike with a wind edge and maybe even some of your weaker characters like Oscar and Mia with 1-2. The only thing that will allow him to do reasonable damage (though likely not 1RKO) is a crit, but that's unreliable, even if you give him some bonds or something.

I myself would only do it when it's most convenient.

Bleh, I'd argue first of all that the stronger enemies would match the higher MT of the aqqar, or at least be close to, then aqqar has more limited uses, plus it has a lot more competition. For instance, Rolf, Leo, Nolan and Boyd can all use it, and it's very valuable when combined with beastfoe/dragonfoe for 4-5 and 4-E(3).

Leo/Nolan won't even have access to it until Part IV. Which leaves the remaining part III chapter up to Rolf/Shinon... both get equal might, but Shinon has a level lead so he gets more durability and speed to use it with. Boyd has better things to use than Aqqar.

Btw, +6 might from Crossbow = +12 total damage so it can do a potential 16 damage to the likes of Armors and even more to Fighters. To Swordmasters maybe around the same because he won't double them that often.

[Rei]

Here's the tier list I agree with and helped make back in like, Feb/March

-Beautiful Tier-

Oliver

-Top Tier-

Tibarn

Reyson

Nailah

Haar

Ike

Titania

Gatrie

Elincia

Naesala

Nolan

Sothe

Shinon

Caineghis

Tauroneo

Oscar

-High Tier-

Jill

Ulki

Marcia

Micaiah

Zihark

Leanne

Mia

Nephenee

Soren

Rafiel

Giffca

Makalov

Nasir

Janaff

Skrimir

Kieran

Mist

Volug

Aran

Heather

Brom

Volke

Stefan

-Mid Tier-

Ilyana

Pelleas

Calill

Geoffrey

Tanith

Kurthnaga

Ena

Laura

Eddie

Boyd

Bastian

Renning

Sanaki

Ranulf

Mordecai

Sigrun

Danved

Lucia

Muarim

Nealuchi

Lethe

-Low Tier-

Rhys

Leonardo

Fiona

Tormod

Rolf

-Bottom Tier-

Meg

Astrid

Vika

Oliver

Kyza

Gareth

Lyre

[Florete]

Why is Mist always ranked so high on tier lists? I don't see her contributing much except crappy combat and slightly OK healing. Sure she gets a mount after promotion, but her stats are overall very meh.

Both she and Rhys are one-rounded early on, but she at least gets out of that with a few levels. Plus, her healing is almost always good enough to make Rhys's +10 magic lead meaningless.

Her combat is nothing special, but she can still finish off weaker enemies like Swordmasters and Sages that someone else couldn't double.

One more thing; Her A-support with Boyd grants a free Spirit Dust.

Come part 4, she's so pathetically outclassed by Elincia it isn't even funny.

Other than being on a different team and Elincia now having pretty bad stats? Elincia may have a w1n sword, but her speed is so low even she might be doubled on occasion. Plus, crossbows, or any regular bow, can still murder her.

Here's the tier list I agree with and helped make back in like, Feb/March

No offense, but I saw Tibarn at the top and couldn't look at anything else.

In other news, I've made more changes.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[Lord Raven]

What is Tauroneo doing so high? And why Nailah > Haar?

[dondon151]

Her combat is nothing special, but she can still finish off weaker enemies like Swordmasters and Sages that someone else couldn't double.

Rhys can finish anyone off that's not a magic class, and does it better than Mist. Mist's offense is also getting worse as the chapters progress (I think, with 25% strength growth).

Other than being on a different team and Elincia now having pretty bad stats? Elincia may have a w1n sword, but her speed is so low even she might be doubled on occasion. Plus, crossbows, or any regular bow, can still murder her.

22 base speed with 70% growth, and staves for EXP gain? I doubt she's being doubled. Her offense completely destroys Mist's as well.

Edited December 30, 2008 by dondon151

[Florete]

Rhys can finish anyone off that's not a magic class, and does it better than Mist. Mist's offense is also getting worse as the chapters progress (I think, with 25% strength growth).

With a +4 strength promotion gain and +3 boost from A-Boyd, it actually gets much better.

22 base speed with 70% growth, and staves for EXP gain? I doubt she's being doubled. Her offense completely destroys Mist's as well.

She'll be doubled by some part 4 swordmasters that have up to 30 speed, and I can't remember others. Elincia is still rather good, but I'd say Mist is better at this point for dodging more efficiently, supporting, and healing better, while still having average offense, enough to take care of weaker enemies should the need arise.

[dondon151]

With a +4 strength promotion gain and +3 boost from A-Boyd, it actually gets much better.

When is she getting that promotion? Not anytime soon. Though you're right, her offense probably isn't getting worse, but it isn't improving very fast at all.

She'll be doubled by some part 4 swordmasters that have up to 30 speed, and I can't remember others.

So Elincia will be doubled by swordmasters only in part 4. And these will only be swordmasters in 4-E-2, since I can't remember there being any swordmasters with 30 speed in 4-2 (I had max speed Makalov and Kieran not being doubled, so...).

[Mr.Shiu and Watch]

Hetzal should be in epic.

[Clonez]

Kyza should be below Volke and Stefan. The guy transformed is still short from the rest of your army and most of the time he will be untransformed, which leads to even more suck.

Volke and Stefan can actually fight well.

[Lord Raven]

So Elincia will be doubled by swordmasters only in part 4. And these will only be swordmasters in 4-E-2, since I can't remember there being any swordmasters with 30 speed in 4-2 (I had max speed Makalov and Kieran not being doubled, so...).

... doesn't Elincia have the defense and evade to not care? I imagine it'd be 50% (SM hit rates) on neutral biorhythm (it was around 30%ish with neutral biorhythm on my most recent NM playthrough, Elincia being around Level 3 BECAUSE OF FIXED PHYSIC EXP FROM PART 2) and I also imagine Amiti dealing a lot of damage. With her rate for activating Stun once in that time, at least, being around 40ish percent... so she can essentially one round once every 2 or 3 enemies.

Or you can, you know, have her be a flying heal and run person. Because that's always nice to have. Mist is the only other "heal and run" you're going to have, and she's in another team. Rhys and Laura are the others... it's up in the air which team they'll go to, but they don't have as much mobility as Elincia anyway. If you're going to care about Elincia's magic, just buy a recover staff; you have enough money by this point anyway.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Nathan Graves

[Vykan12]

In terms of Elincia, I see the best route to go is BEXPing her 4 levels to get her 26 speed as this allows her to double everything in 4-2 except swordsmasters, which she 1RKOes anyway since their def is so low. Though, for tier purposes, 2-3 is enough since she'll be levelling quite fast off of atk experience and staves alone, plus she's useful w/ mercy to feed your weaker units kills since people on Tibarn's route will generally be under-levelled people trying to milk 4-5 for all it's worth.

Though anyway, why are we comparinng Mist and Elincia anyway? Elincia is demonstrably better, but that has nothing to do with how good Mist is as a unit (didn't Mekkah say that already?).

[Florete]

Though anyway, why are we comparinng Mist and Elincia anyway? Elincia is demonstrably better, but that has nothing to do with how good Mist is as a unit (didn't Mekkah say that already?).

Now that you mention it, I don't know. Elincia is already quite a bit higher than Mist on the list anyway.

[Shadow Mir]

Red Fox of Fire, Mist gets +5 Strength from her promotion.

[dondon151]

Though anyway, why are we comparinng Mist and Elincia anyway? Elincia is demonstrably better, but that has nothing to do with how good Mist is as a unit (didn't Mekkah say that already?).

I believe I was saying that Mist and Rhys shouldn't be separated by nearly a tier, then it spilled over to Mist and Elincia.

[Geist]

I am not a pro(if there actually are "pros" at this game) but I think Tauroneo and Geoffrey got a little underrated, because in the chapters where they are, they are necessary imo.

I mean, of course it is possible to finish those chapters without them but did you ever think about finishing the two Geoffrey chapters and chapters like 3-12 and 3-13 without Tauroneo? I think that is quite difficult.

Just my opinion, I do not know how you think about it.

[_____]

I am not a pro(if there actually are "pros" at this game) but I think Tauroneo and Geoffrey got a little underrated, because in the chapters where they are, they are necessary imo.

I mean, of course it is possible to finish those chapters without them but did you ever think about finishing the two Geoffrey chapters and chapters like 3-12 and 3-13 without Tauroneo? I think that is quite difficult.

Just my opinion, I do not know how you think about it.

2-3 can easily be completed without the use of Geoffrey, as can 2-E. You would just have a harder time reaching Ludveck in the latter. Marauders is fairly simple, as Marcia will be doing most of the fighting as she's saving houses, and Kieran can axe his way through. Geoffrey isn't necessary.

Tauroneo is very useful for 1-6-2, I admit, but he probably won't be fighting much in 1-6-1 because of all of the thickets. Going ahead to 3-12. He's back, and isn't as "invincible" as you thought he was. Actually, it seems he can be 2-3 rounded by Warriors. How sad. He can Javelin his way to the left while other units guard the right area, but there're maaaaany allies over to the left already guarding that spot. He's not contributing much, is he? Conversely, you could send him to the right, and he could wall off the place, but those Warriors are causing him trouble. Axe are a bitch, aren't they? 3-13 rolls along and Tauroneo's taking the same role he's always taken: walling. Unfortunatly for him, just about every other character you have can wall as well. He's not necessary.

[Geist]

2-3 can easily be completed without the use of Geoffrey, as can 2-E. You would just have a harder time reaching Ludveck in the latter. Marauders is fairly simple, as Marcia will be doing most of the fighting as she's saving houses, and Kieran can axe his way through. Geoffrey isn't necessary.

Tauroneo is very useful for 1-6-2, I admit, but he probably won't be fighting much in 1-6-1 because of all of the thickets. Going ahead to 3-12. He's back, and isn't as "invincible" as you thought he was. Actually, it seems he can be 2-3 rounded by Warriors. How sad. He can Javelin his way to the left while other units guard the right area, but there're maaaaany allies over to the left already guarding that spot. He's not contributing much, is he? Conversely, you could send him to the right, and he could wall off the place, but those Warriors are causing him trouble. Axe are a bitch, aren't they? 3-13 rolls along and Tauroneo's taking the same role he's always taken: walling. Unfortunatly for him, just about every other character you have can wall as well. He's not necessary.

I do not know to which difficulty this list refers, but I always rule the left side in 3-12 with Tauroneo on level 17/1. Just let him have enough speed(via BEXP) and give him a bag full of Hand Axes(in normal mode this works very well). Therefore, he does not have trouble with Warriors because he wears an Axe himself and the sword users do not do much damage.

My opinion for 3-13: I never tried this without him but he makes it insanely easy to defend. Furthermore, with Boots and Pass he can even luna down Ike if you want to, so you do not even have to handle the gay birds.

And for the Geoffrey Chapters, you said Kieran CAN axe his way through and the G-Unit is not necessary. Ok, I admit that it is possible, but imo, Geoffrey makes it really easy since he can solo 2-3 and 3-8(I think it is 8, you know what I mean).

However, as I said, I am not a pro...

[Seph]

Below is for hard mode.

In 3-12, if you put the partner units on halt and have Nolan, Zihark or Edward, Micaiah and Sothe and maybe even Jill protect the south part, Tauroneo doesn't have to do anything.

In 3-13, only two units can do the fighting. Nolan and Zihark can block the two squares and all the laguz will come to them. The hawks are eliminated with the ballistae of the partner units. Any unit but Tauroneo can block all the ledges and stuff. If you put the partner units on halt, you can also kill the hawks with any powerful unit sometimes if the ballistae miss.

[_____]

And for the Geoffrey Chapters, you said Kieran CAN axe his way through and the G-Unit is not necessary. Ok, I admit that it is possible, but imo, Geoffrey makes it really easy since he can solo 2-3 and 3-8(I think it is 8, you know what I mean).

What Julius said for Tauroneo.

Geoffrey helps, but what unit doesn't? That doesn't mean he's necessary. You probably won't even be fighting a whole lot in 2-3 since the CRKs suck and you want maximum BEXP. Even if it wasn't possible with only the CRK, you can always have your partner units help you out in a pinch, which nets you even more BEXP. It's possible without Geoffrey.

Can Geoffrey fly? Can Geoffrey climb ledges? There's no way you'd be able to reach any house with Geoffrey in 3-8, which is bad. He's probably the best unit to kill the boss, but Kieran can kill him just as well.

[Wisper]

Mist should still be lowered, IMO. Someone shouldn't be at the top of middle just for being one of the only healers in part 3 (which, I repeat, is an incredibly easy part. Even on hard.) Once your GM's start hitting 3rd tier, I can see the value of healers becoming already lower then they were before.

And she can't do anything in combat, as well. I think everyone is overlooking how horrible she is in combat. She's really bad. The only way for her to actually hurt things in the beggining is for her to use the florete. Her starting overall strength with an iron sword is 14...one point higher then base level Edward! She's weighed down by the Steel Sword for 12 levels, so she really shouldn't be using that, as her speed is already low enough. Also, the Florete has only 45 uses. By the time your done babying her, the sword will be broken and she's pretty much UNUSABLE combat wise unless you bought another Florete in 3-4. It also costs 9000 gold, I'm not sure if it's even possible to have that much gold at that point in the game but you can buy several weapons (or, lolvulneraries) with that amount.

Also, you have another healer: Rhys. He isn't very good durability wise, but at least he has high magic and hits RES. He is a great healer, and he can take a good chunk off an enemies health. Mist has better averages then him (kind of) and she without a doubt is better once she gets a mount (which she will probably pretty late), but Rhys is still a better healer and combat unit all through all of part 3.

So, while Mist is one of the two healers in part 3, and being a healer on a mount is pretty cool, but she DOES have a lot of things going against her. I also find it silly that she and Rhys are seperated by an entire tier. I think her position should be lowered, but maybe that's just because I like my healers to do something other then heal.

[Florete]

Mist should still be lowered, IMO. Someone shouldn't be at the top of middle just for being one of the only healers in part 3 (which, I repeat, is an incredibly easy part. Even on hard.) Once your GM's start hitting 3rd tier, I can see the value of healers becoming already lower then they were before.

You're underrating the difficulty of the GM's chapters. They aren't the hardest maps in FE, but having a healer still makes things much easier.

And she can't do anything in combat, as well. I think everyone is overlooking how horrible she is in combat. She's really bad. The only way for her to actually hurt things in the beggining is for her to use the florete. Her starting overall strength with an iron sword is 14...one point higher then base level Edward! She's weighed down by the Steel Sword for 12 levels, so she really shouldn't be using that, as her speed is already low enough. Also, the Florete has only 45 uses. By the time your done babying her, the sword will be broken and she's pretty much UNUSABLE combat wise unless you bought another Florete in 3-4. It also costs 9000 gold, I'm not sure if it's even possible to have that much gold at that point in the game but you can buy several weapons (or, lolvulneraries) with that amount.

Her combat might not start great, but it'll turn out average. And you shouldn't have the need to buy another Florete because Mist shouldn't be fighting much anyway. If you need more Florete, that's what the Hammerne is for. The Hammerne isn't being used for much else except maybe Caladbolg, Tarvos, or a lucky forged weapon.

Also, you have another healer: Rhys. He isn't very good durability wise, but at least he has high magic and hits RES. He is a great healer, and he can take a good chunk off an enemies health. Mist has better averages then him (kind of) and she without a doubt is better once she gets a mount (which she will probably pretty late), but Rhys is still a better healer and combat unit all through all of part 3.

His combat is decent for the first few chapters, but then other characters start doubling more often while he's still being one-rounded. He may have +10 magic on her, but healing 23 HP is often good enough. If it isn't, that's what the Mend staff is for.

Don't forget that Mist also has fairly good chances of transferring Magic and Speed, further closing the gap between her and Rhys. Rhys can get Magic, Skill, and Resistance, but those aren't helping his durability at all.

[Lord Raven]

Rhys could transfer Magic and Speed pretty well too. 22 cap in FE9 ftl :<

[Agro]

Why are we factoring in data transfer anyway? Seeing as alot of the "points" people bring up involve RNG abuse, they;re pretty much pointless. Also,[POR] Rhys' speed caps at 25, not 22. It averages at 21 for 20/20 and he's not going to get anywhere near there without bonus EXP[/POR].