HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) may i ask...this marcia vs jill thing has gone on for a really long time...and whats gonna be the end result? they are both already in top tier so... its kinda like debating who's was the better president, Franklin Roosevelt or Thedore Roosevelt. because both of them are already in the top of the list anyways. Edited October 5, 2011 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 may i ask...this marcia vs jill thing has gone on for a really long time...and whats gonna be the end result? they are both already in top tier so... its kinda like debating who's was the better president, Franklin Roosevelt or Thedore Roosevelt. because both of them are already in the top of the list anyways. You know, I woke up this morning thinking "this topic should have banal posts contributing, at best, next to nothing to the discussion. I'd be so extra happy if they were riddled with spelling and punctuation errors." Imagine how pleasant my surprise was when I saw this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Marcia moved over Jill for now. There is no "end result" in tier lists really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring Wraith Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Why is Titania so high? Oscar seems like he would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 because titania does about as well as oscar does for the last thirds of the game and does better than him (starting from way better -> a little better) for the first 2/3 of the game. titania's not moving anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 You know, the sad part was I thought it was a sarcastic post from aku chi or Vykan. Not that I'm mocking the poster's intelligence, mind you. Just threw me way left-field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercdouken Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ena should be top tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) cant tell if trolling or daft Edited November 4, 2011 by Mercenary Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Clearly trolling. Even if Ena had 100 in all stats, her late join time makes it so that she could never actually be in the top-tier. Here is a good question. Why not include the Laguz Generals? I know in the past they were removed from the list because there were tons of arguments to move them up and down that varied depending on if the player felt they should be punished for removing the other two or not, if they should be rewarded for being godly for their one chapter or hurt for only being in one, and so forth. However you guys seem to have your system down (though I HIGHLY disagree with it), so... why not? It would be better than complaining about single turns between top-tier units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) I'd hazard a guess that they just aren't needed; Ike is the only character who matters in Endgame, and with Wrath+Resolve, he can trainwreck Ashnard all by himself; they don't even show up until Ike takes down Ashnard stage 1 anyway in HM. Edited November 4, 2011 by Black★Rock Shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Here is a good question. Why not include the Laguz Generals? I know in the past they were removed from the list because there were tons of arguments to move them up and down that varied depending on if the player felt they should be punished for removing the other two or not, if they should be rewarded for being godly for their one chapter or hurt for only being in one, and so forth. However you guys seem to have your system down (though I HIGHLY disagree with it), so... why not? It would be better than complaining about single turns between top-tier units. I really don't think "removing the other two" matters at all. Fact of the matter is that they probably won't see any action. They won't appear until the turn after Ashnard is defeated once and you've called one, and Wrath/Resolve Ike should easily get rid of Ashnard before a Laguz Royal can get there. So pretty similar to what Black★Rock Shooter just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 What about when the player doesn't use wrath/resolve Ike? Or doesn't attempt a early KO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 What about when the player doesn't use wrath/resolve Ike? Or doesn't attempt a early KO? ...What the hell else is the player supposed to be doing on the last chapter of the game? Remember we're in a tier setting here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 They are supposed to beat the game. However it seems foolish to me to assume a player will always use the exact same strategy every time or deny that Wrath and Resolve do have uses elsewhere as well and may not go to Ike of necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 They are supposed to beat the game. However it seems foolish to me to assume a player will always use the exact same strategy every time or deny that Wrath and Resolve do have uses elsewhere as well and may not go to Ike of necessity. Aside from the Dragons (which isn't exactly a good idea, especially if you get Ena), Ike is the only one who can hurt Ashnard in his first form. There isn't much room to try different strategies here. Resolve is only usable for 28 and Final so it would be downright foolish to give it to someone else and there's no way that a skill like Wrath is going to be as effective even over multiple maps as it would be on Ike for killing Ashnard, especially in this game where a lot of characters have trouble just getting that low in HP. And remember, as far as ranking the Laguz Royals goes, how long it takes to kill Ashnard the first time doesn't matter at all since you can't call one until you're already facing berserk Ashnard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I'm ~somewhat~ with Snowy but they pretty much hit an "unranked" tier as paradoxical as it sounds. My idea is to make a "Laguz Royals" tier and kinda gauge from there who's the best one even if they all won't really see any action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Ike also has the option of going Aether, which is undoubtedly weaker than Wrath + Resolve, but still moderately effective against Ashnard. There's no way that Ike will not have either of those 2 skill setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I don't have any problem with putting the Laguz Royals on the normal tier list really. Considering characters like Lehran and Athos are on other tier lists no reason to exclude them really. As with most situations like this, characters don't get punished for preventing a better option. That being said, Naesala doesn't seem very helpful. He's only doing 4 damage a hit to Berserk Ashnard. Tibarn hits for 10, Giffca for 15. Not sure if flight helps reach Ashnard more quickly or not (depends on where you got him the first time I guess). At the moment I'm inclined to say Giffca>Tibarn, maybe putting them between Ulki and Rolf or something. Naesala might go the the bottom of the bottom, he can't hit Berserk Ashnard as hard as base Nasir and even Ena can have skills/BEXP/stat boosters dumped on her to make her damage on Ashnard more significant (plus she can Shove once during C28 or something). I guess part of the thing about the Laguz Royals is that they depend on the Ike's stats pretty significantly, which could be significantly above his 20/20 average if stat boosters become involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aku chi Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) One could easily make a case for Laguz Royals > Ena, but anything above that seems like a stretch to me. Bastian and Lucia can actually contribute meaningfully in C25, so I'd be inclined to give them the nod over even Giffca. Truth be told, I could probably be convinced that Lucia and Bastian are more valuable than Nasir. even Ena can have skills/BEXP/stat boosters dumped on her to make her damage on Ashnard more significant Even at level 20. Ena deals ~3.5 damage to Ashnard full-transformed (which probably requires a very valuable Laguz Stone) or ~1.5 damage with the Demi Band. Giving Ena an Energy Drop to boost that damage by 2 is the height of silliness (plus, you could give it to Naesala instead if you like). The only skill that saves Ena's combat is Resolve, which is almost always better to give to Ike instead. Ena is good for nothing but shoving in two chapters. Edited November 5, 2011 by aku chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I see very little reason for Ike not to have Resolve. I can see him not having Wrath since after all it does have a lot more availability, but not Resolve: and Resolve is the key ingredient that turns a 12 round into a 2 round task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Aside from the Dragons (which isn't exactly a good idea, especially if you get Ena), Ike is the only one who can hurt Ashnard in his first form. There isn't much room to try different strategies here. Resolve is only usable for 28 and Final so it would be downright foolish to give it to someone else and there's no way that a skill like Wrath is going to be as effective even over multiple maps as it would be on Ike for killing Ashnard, especially in this game where a lot of characters have trouble just getting that low in HP. I would say very much otherwise. Wrath is a great skill when used properly, especially on a unit with a natural critical boost (increasing the chance of a critical hit greatly, especially with a crit-boosted weapon), vantage, as well as a few other skills to a degree. On a SM alone, between the +50% crit from Wrath, +15% from natural boost, and + 9% from a forge (not taking SKL into account) they can achieve 72% critical rates, more if a KE or the VK is used by them. That is pretty useful to have. A sage can also get decent critical rates with a boosted tome. Meanwhile, Aether is pretty handy for keeping Ike topped off throughout the game. IMO, Aether >>> Wrath/resolve overall (especially considering you have to either sacrifice a skill to get Resolve or go until 28 with only wrath). Either way, there are justifiable reasons for not using a wrath/resolved Ike, especially when you aren't shooting for a LTC. And remember, as far as ranking the Laguz Royals goes, how long it takes to kill Ashnard the first time doesn't matter at all since you can't call one until you're already facing berserk Ashnard. So we're putting them in for the sake of beating one boss a bit faster. Wooo... We were already doing that with Ike Wrath/Resolve. Don't see what impact that has anyways on which laguz king is better. IMO, It's Giffca > Tibran > Naesala, but I'm gauging that on sheer combat power alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Meanwhile, Aether is pretty handy for keeping Ike topped off throughout the game. Nothing wrong with removing Aether in Chapter 28. IMO, Aether >>> Wrath/resolve overall (especially considering you have to either sacrifice a skill to get Resolve or go until 28 with only wrath). To be honest, the "sacrifice" is so minor that it barely registers. By that point in the game, you can easily throw away a skill without making a meaningful impact on strategies. Nor is Ike going skill-less practically the entire game that big a sacrifice. I usually find that I have way more people than I do skills to give them, so someone is going to have to go without. Might as well be the guy I plan to staple Resolve to. So we're putting them in for the sake of beating one boss a bit faster. Wooo... We were already doing that with Ike Wrath/Resolve. Don't see what impact that has anyways on which laguz king is better. Hmm, well Lehran is already on the FE10 tier list. Maybe it would be better to just slash (not in that way) the Royals and shove them at the bottom. IMO, It's Giffca > Tibran > Naesala, but I'm gauging that on sheer combat power alone. What else would we rank them on? Mustache growing ability? Shirtlessness? Coin ownership? I suppose that Giffca has the significant advantage of starting only halfway around the world rather than the whole way around the world, whatever good that does him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Hmm, well Lehran is already on the FE10 tier list. Maybe it would be better to just slash (not in that way) the Royals and shove them at the bottom. Even Lehran is guaranteed to be able to do something. Not that I have a problem with putting the Laguz Royals on the list, just that it doesn't mean anything either way. Edited November 6, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Sephiran is no more guaranteed to do something as the Royals are. I see very little reason for Ike not to have Resolve. I can see him not having Wrath since after all it does have a lot more availability, but not Resolve: and Resolve is the key ingredient that turns a 12 round into a 2 round task. Once again, while a Swordmaster is a poor way to use Wrath (since Swordmasters have a bunch of shortcomings, think Ike with a lot less Defense and no Ragnell to salvage them), I am only with Snowy here on the fact that you have assumed an "optimal" playthrough where only Ike is getting Resolve. Edited November 6, 2011 by Mercenary Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Sephiran is no more guaranteed to do something as the Royals are. Able to. It's very possible to beat Ashnard before the Royal can reach him, but Lehran can hit an Aura from turn 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.