FE9 Tier list v3

[Lord Raven]

Yes, he is. There's literally almost no payoff for the resources that he needs.

[-Cynthia-]

Rearranged Bottom tier a bit.

[aku chi]

I know it's been this way for a long while, but the asymmetry of the tier list bothers me. Namely, the lack of a Bottom Tier and the girth of the Upper-Mid Tier. Who's up for a re-arrangement of the tier list!? My proposal: split up Upper-Mid in two, the bottom half becomes Mid and every other tier is demoted. Here's what it might look like:

Titania tier

Titania

Top

Marcia

Jill

Oscar

Kieran

High

Boyd

Ike

Reyson

Tanith

Astrid

Makalov

Upper-Mid

Lethe

Muarim

Mordecai

Nephenee

Mist

Tormod

Soren

Mid

Calill

Stefan

Zihark

Mia

Ilyana

Rhys

Volke

Lower-Mid

Sothe

Haar

Gatrie

Geoffrey

Brom

Devdan

Low

Janaff

Elincia

Largo

Ranulf

Tauroneo

Bottom

Shinon

Ulki

Bastian

Rolf

Lucia

Nasir

Ena

Justifications for tier breaks:

1) I'm a bit skeptical of Calill's huge move upwards, so she seemed like a natural place to break up Upper-Mid (it also helps that she was right near the middle of the old tier). I'm open to other suggestions, however. Below Mist was the other tier break location that came to my mind. Her awesome Rescue staff utility can't be matched by Tormod or Soren.

2) I moved Volke across the tier gap because he dominates Sothe. This change should happen regardless of whether my more ambitous proposal is accepted, IMO.

Edited January 24, 2012 by aku chi

[Life]

Speaking of Sothe, when am I going to deploy him that outdoes Haar's contributions? 13, 15... where else is Sothe actually of good use?

[-Cynthia-]

I can't think of many situations where Volke's combat or durability leads would be relevant, and Volke's not very important to clearing C10 anyway. Yes, Volke "dominates" Sothe, but for what we're using them for Volke's advantages don't really matter. If we ignore that Sothe can duplicate Volke for almost every important task this starts to become an optimal deployment tier list which would look very different overall.

Whether thieving is better than what Haar does is another matter. The thieves are pretty hard to place in FE9, their contributions on most playthroughs amount only to a small handful of items, but a few of these items can be pretty important (Boots being the big one).

@tier rearranging Well there used to be a Bottom tier, but over time people decided the final few characters really weren't that terrible. I'll consider it, although tiers don't really need to be symmetrical.

[Lord Raven]

Sothe can't reach the boots reasonably. He needs to be rescued if he wants to get the Physic staff because he risks getting mauled. Volke can survive a hit or two (and a bit more with a vulnerary) if he goes out and gets the Boots.

[-Cynthia-]

Sothe can survive a round with anything other than a Tiger, and there don't seem to be Tigers within the range where one would grab the Boots anyway. I guess Volke can survive more than one hawk/raven, though I'd think it would be more efficient to ferry a thief around than wait for them to try and grab items regardless. Considering the possibility of Marcia/Jill not being recruited though, there might not be a flier available. I'll raise Volke up to the next tier.

Also did the reorganization (split after Mist).

Edited February 2, 2012 by -Cynthia-

[aku chi]

I can't think of many situations where Volke's combat or durability leads would be relevant, and Volke's not very important to clearing C10 anyway.

Volke is required in a stealth clear of C10 if you want to recruit any of the units. That's pretty darn important. Volke's C11 shouldn't be ignored either. There are plenty of houses to visit, and Volke has better movement than most. It's easy for him to make a contribution. Also, if you want Sothe to steal any Physics, you need to feed him Bexp. Volke needs no resources to steal these valuable resources. Volke's better chip combat is just a small component of Volke's advantages.

[Lord Raven]

Sothe is perfectly capable of stealing a Physic staff without healing- he needs to be rescued by a Flier to make it work. Volke doesnt even need a flier.

[aku chi]

Sothe is perfectly capable of stealing a Physic staff without healing- he needs to be rescued by a Flier to make it work. Volke doesnt even need a flier.

Stealing, not finding. Sothe doesn't have the Str (or, generally, the Spd) to steal Physics from Priests/Bishops at base.

[Lord Raven]

Not like you're going to be burning through more than one Physic staff ever in efficient play

EDIT: Sothe still sucks

Edited February 3, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Snowy_One]

Why is Rolf below Bastion? I mean, Rolf sucks, sure, and he takes a Bexp dump to even get going. But Bastion doesn't really have much on Rolf either. You don't want either countering, neither are going to be amazing units and will be attacking from 2 range whenever possible, and you already have access to four other sages by the time Bastion comes around, including Calill. Even if Rolf sucks it seems to me that the smaller contributions he makes throughout the game outweigh the equally small contributions made by Bastion. Plus Rolf may be able to offer token-support (not good support, but still...) while even if Bastion was an Earth, his limited availability would almost ensure his supports are meaningless.

[Lord Raven]

do you have numbers to back up that assertion, snowy

[bottlegnomes]

Siege tomes

[Shadow Mir]

Why is Rolf below Bastion? I mean, Rolf sucks, sure, and he takes a Bexp dump to even get going. But Bastion doesn't really have much on Rolf either. You don't want either countering, neither are going to be amazing units and will be attacking from 2 range whenever possible, and you already have access to four other sages by the time Bastion comes around, including Calill. Even if Rolf sucks it seems to me that the smaller contributions he makes throughout the game outweigh the equally small contributions made by Bastion. Plus Rolf may be able to offer token-support (not good support, but still...) while even if Bastion was an Earth, his limited availability would almost ensure his supports are meaningless.

I'd easily take Bastian's siege bombing over...whatever Rofl gives me.

[Colonel M]

Bastian barely costs any resources (besides Seige Tomes) to be useful.

Rolf costs BEXP to be useful, and probably some forges along the way.

See, I just won Bastian > Rolf without any numbers and in tl;dr format. Bitches be praising.

[Snowy_One]

Bastion's use in siege tomeing is worthless as Calill exists and there are three other sages who can be used who can bomb before him.

Rolf has meh offense at best, but he's still contributing throughout the early game. Is the BEXP dump bad? Yes. Is it bad enough to make him non-existent? no. Plus, with just over 600 or so BEXP he can get to level 8 (ignoring his potshotting will get him some EXP) where he'll have about 16 MT and 8 or so AS, which, while not the best, is enough to double at least some of the enemies in chapter 11 (even though he should be a few levels higher at that point). Getting him some EXP isn't too hard either. Just shooting at a level 10 enemy gives him 15 EXP and if he manages to kill something he will get more.

Besides, there are, like, 20 uses of the siege tomes throughout the game. Less if you didn't kill that sage/didn't get the chest in 16, and those uses will NOT all be there when he comes around. Besides, how often do you need three siege tomes being used at once (Mage + Calill + Bastion).

Edited May 8, 2012 by Snowy_One

[dondon151]

Bastion's use in siege tomeing is worthless as Calill exists and there are three other sages who can be used who can bomb before him.

so what does this say about rolf's use in anything

think before you shit out of your mouth, thx

[Ema Skye]

Bastion's use in siege tomeing is worthless as Calill exists and there are three other sages who can be used who can bomb before him.

Its still an advantage Bastian has over Rolf. Even if he's outclassed in the role, its still a trait that he has over Rolf.

Rolf has meh offense at best, but he's still contributing throughout the early game. Is the BEXP dump bad? Yes. Is it bad enough to make him non-existent? no. Plus, with just over 600 or so BEXP he can get to level 8 (ignoring his potshotting will get him some EXP) where he'll have about 16 MT and 8 or so AS, which, while not the best, is enough to double at least some of the enemies in chapter 11 (even though he should be a few levels higher at that point). Getting him some EXP isn't too hard either. Just shooting at a level 10 enemy gives him 15 EXP and if he manages to kill something he will get more.

He joins the same time Marcia and Mist do. Both join under leveled, and they are both able to perform better than Rolf can. Nephenee joins shortly down the road, as do Jill and Astrid. Alternately, you can use the BEXP to improve Oscar/Boyd/Mia/whoever, as they joined before Bonus EXP could be applied, and could use a few levels or such. All of those units can use the BEXP better than Rolf can, and that's an extensive list. The chances of Rolf getting any claims in BEXP are looooooooooow.

Besides, there are, like, 20 uses of the siege tomes throughout the game. Less if you didn't kill that sage/didn't get the chest in 16, and those uses will NOT all be there when he comes around. Besides, how often do you need three siege tomes being used at once (Mage + Calill + Bastion).

So what? Base Bastian has 27 attack with Blizzard (16 speed as well with no attack speed penalty). That's a OHKO on Ch. 24's Wyvern Lords. The rest of the time, he's helping your units avoid taking counters, because they'll kill the units he's weakened. Yes, there's only 20 total uses of the siege tomes, and even if Bastian never gets to touch them, the fact that he can is still something he has over Rolf.

TBH, I'm considering bringing up Lucia, Nasir and Ena over Rolf, because I think that he's that bad.

[Samias]

I'd rather have Rolf, since I can pretend like I'm ever going to use that lolbow Triangle Attack. His bases suck and effective damage in this game is barely worth anything, but um... he's... cute? And he can use longbows? He sorta kinda recruits Shinon... uh... And I guess you can hope he caps some stats for a good transfer to Radiant Dawn, where his promotion is all sorts of awesome? Bastian, on the other hand, has the same magic and less speed than base Calill, C-rank in thunder tomes, and he's 7 levels higher. He probably won't cap anything except lolstr, doesn't have staves, and he still blows in Radiant Dawn. He doesn't take up any resources but with Calill around, why bother?

Edit: Of course, if you're going for LTC and not a transfer run, just don't even bother with Rolf. Not even Boyd and Nephenee or even Ike can keep up with Marcia/Jill/Oscar/Kieran/whatever other mounts because god knows you aren't short on them in this game. I still just don't feel the need to use Bastian. Ever.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Samias

[Shadow Mir]

I'd rather have Rolf, since I can pretend like I'm ever going to use that lolbow Triangle Attack. His bases suck and effective damage in this game is barely worth anything, but um... he's... cute? And he can use longbows? He sorta kinda recruits Shinon... uh... And I guess you can hope he caps some stats for a good transfer to Radiant Dawn, where his promotion is all sorts of awesome? Bastian, on the other hand, has the same magic and less speed than base Calill, C-rank in thunder tomes, and he's 7 levels higher. He probably won't cap anything except lolstr, doesn't have staves, and he still blows in Radiant Dawn. He doesn't take up any resources but with Calill around, why bother?

Well, Rolf's problem is that he requires the biggest investment of anyone in the game, and your "reward"... is the lowest returns of anyone in the game. Granted, Calill outclasses Bastian, but this isn't Rolf vs Calill.

[Samias]

I wouldn't say he has the lowest returns in the game with the likes of Lucia around, though his class really blows in such a high movement game. In the context of an FE9 LTC, Rolf is horribad, but in a transfer file, investing in Rolf's potential to actually cap some stats is not the worst idea either.

I guess since the best potential Rolf has is not even in this game, he is probably lower than Bastian, but that doesn't change them from being benchwarmers.

[dondon151]

I wouldn't say he has the lowest returns in the game with the likes of Lucia around,

yes he does

because lucia doesn't have nearly as much investment as rolf

[BBM]

We need more NPCs/enemies in this tier list. I vote Schaeffer for Top, followed closely by the BK.

[Dark Sage]

Bastion's use in siege tomeing is worthless as Calill exists and there are three other sages who can be used who can bomb before him.

So what's the use that Rolf has that everyone else in the game doesn't have to make him totally irrelevant?

Oh right nothing. Or worse than nothing because you just spent hundreds of BEXP to still have a really bad unit (foot soldier move with no enemy phase? why).