Lord of Azure Flames Tier List

[riariadne]

Rita on the other hand, will be doubling everything except; Mercenaries, Troubadours, Pegasi, Thieves, and other Myrmidons, and after promo only Thieves, Mercs, and other Myrmidons. Provided none are promoted. Her strength will get a boost on promo, so she'l have okay combo with decent rolls, and if I decide to give her Heavy Strike....

Um, Hi, Nomad's exist.

And nobody cares how she'll be on promo if she's a hindrance right now. She might even be able to go lower. Or would, except it's kinda difficult to be bad enough to reach fail tier.

Also, I point you to the first rule.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Lightning

[Ether]

I'm thinking Charlotte could stand to go down a bit.

Look at the four people directly below her(with a tier gap, even!)

Aiya, Damian, Morgan, Irina.

What do these people have in common? They all joined in chapter 1 (Irina didn't become active until a while later, but she was around)

Charlotte joined at the end of the Elyisimia Arc, and has been away from the party on two separate occasions, for decently long amounts of time, and still isn't back from the second one.

As useful as healing and her interactions are, she hasn't had the chance to make use of her advantages for nearly as much time, and is faced by advantages of the others.

Aiya: Transportation, income(while Damian has no cash), as well as one of the best offensive/defensive games in the party.

Damian: primary source of income for a good chunk of the adventure, keeps two members of the party under employ(IC, he's probably the only reason Esphyr even joined, and kept Kiev fed and alive), as well as combat and guard utility.

Morgan: Keeps the group on task and more organized than it would be. Hits like a truck, logical mind where such things are lacking, keeps Lev around, dark magic stuffz, pet Chase.

Irina: Transportation, combat, only reason Isotov agreed to join the party, Kiev logic(yes, I count this as a tier worthy contribution damn it!), combat utility.

I think Charlotte could stand to move below some, if not all of these people, and certainly no tier gap should exist between them. Top should be Tessa's playground, great as Charlotte is, IMO, she just can't compete.

[riariadne]

True, true, Charlotte could stand to drop. Tess owns top tier for being the only healer for a whie and being promoted.

Which reminds me, Arrin and Conrad could both rise now that they leveled or in Arrin's case, promoted. Arrin's just a beast now, and Conrad laughs off most attacks with his 15 hp/ 8 def/ 1 res combination.

Or, IMO, even better, remove Zilpah from Skittles, move Aiya and Damian to top, and put Tessa in skittles. Awesome or awesome?

Edited August 22, 2010 by Lightning

[Dark Sage]

I mainly have to ask why is Helios higher than Conrad/Derek? Both tank quite well and have good offense and are more helpful outside of combat as well.

[riariadne]

Hmm. I don't really know, because Helios's combat isn't that special anymore... maybe he'll be useful when he promotes but until then, Helios needs to drop.

Also, poor Alf has gotten much better. Raise.

[Ansem]

I just argued Conrad up......

Helios will be great once promoted which is next battle but I'll let you wait....

[-Cynthia-]

I'm just going to point out that Charlotte's first kidnapping didn't make her miss any battles and her second one only made her miss one, they're seeming a bit overrated in terms of actual effect here.

Edited August 22, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Dark Sage]

If I may, I would have to argue Kelas down. Kelas may have excellent speed, but her strength is soley lacking, even after promotion, it would still be mediocre. While Iso support helps her kind of, it only makes her might passable and not particularly good.

Rita can drop. Her doubling capabilites are great, but she like Kelas, her might isn't very good. Even worse, her 2 defense and 9 HP makes her fragile against a good chunk of stuff. 6 evade is decent, but there's still a real chance of her dying. She does do better against mages than most of the physical fighters, in the sense she's just as fragile against them as she is against physical units.

Like the rules say, I know I'm not supposed to argue my characters down or up, but Reika losing her Crimson Weapon is a valid reason for her to drop.

Arrin to top or second near top. Stat beast and Arcane Power equals win.

Pary should be low, getting us in trouble with authorities, and refusing to heal certain group members and all.

Finally I nominate Luc to High Tier, due to being a mounted tank and effective against both physical units and mages. Plus he has a nice balance of stats.

[riariadne]

Kelas down, yeah.

Rita literally CAN'T drop anymore. That's the lowest it gets.

True. Reika lowered a bit.

Forgot he promoted. Arrin is now Skittles.

Pary lowered.

Done and done.

Also, put Dani in MIA tier.

[Psych]

Having a tier list that's based off of personality and current going-ons seems idiotic in my opinion. Admittedly, it does hurt Reika, only because her knives did affect battle.

I can argue Rita up after promo.

A new (maybe 2) skill, 7 speed, 4 def and res. Yeah, she'll be going up.

[Inactive Account]

I would agree with the Pary drop not because of the personality bit or authority bit, but because the refusal to heal certain units really is a usefulness issue.

~hastily exits topic~

[Dark Sage]

Also Morgan should drop somewhat. Decent damage but 3 skill isn't that great and her Tessa support only boosts evade. She's decent and all, but certainly not top of High tier.

And the refusing to help members of the group that hate him (as in, a sizable amount of the group), explain why Pary is higher than Helios.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Yoshimitsu

[riariadne]

Morgan's the reason a good deal of people are in the group. She hired a bunch of people, which automatically makes her useful. And the people below her aren't as helpful as her, so she stands.

@Psych: The fact that Pary fucking refuses to heal certain people is a problem. He also gets the group in trouble, and really I don't see how being a healer helps if you're not doing your job very well. And even then, he's outclassed by both Charlotte and Tessa.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Lightning

[Dark Sage]

True, but that only goes so far. This is combat as well as usefulness outside. And frankly, Morgan's merely an average combatant. Her Tessa support is nice, but she has hit issues and she doesn't have Hawkeye to make up for it. Not to mention being fragile. At the very least, drop her lower in High Tier.

And Chase could stand to go lower as well. Basically a slightly stronger version of Kelas. He hasn't done much that's been particularly useful as of late either

[riariadne]

The point is, nobody beneath Morgan is really any better with combat. Like... Luc, Isotov, and maybe Chase?

Chase's combat is notable, mostly his offense and evade.

[Dark Sage]

Esphyr, Chase, Eric and Derek come to mind

Chase's Reika with a bow, sharing good avoid and not so bad offense, but also suffers from mediocre defenses and no close range. Plus Esphyr, Eric, and Derek, Luc are more effective in combat anyway, either beating him in offense (Arcanium is a nice skill to have plus good attack, Wrath/Resolve/Fire Affinity support combo) or defensively, like Derek and Luc, who deal as much damage as Chase, but also can take a lot of hits and can dodge pretty well.

[riariadne]

9 HP/ 3 defense is not nearly as bad as it looks. Chase can take a hit if he even gets hit, and ORKO's almost everything. And if he doesn't ORKO, he's either pretty damn close or it's a boss. Then he has Charge for the stuff he doesn't kill, and 4 attacks is pretty much going to kill anything (and the people he isn't doubling, 2 attacks also probably kills). And then there's the bonus of never getting countered, making him less susceptible to enemy phase because he'll probably enter with full HP.

Arcanium is a grand total of +1 to attack, which barely ever makes a difference, and Chase actually beats Esphyr in durability IIRC. Eric I can concede, but shit happens to him a lot. Derek is debatable: he has better defense and only slightly worse offense, but less avoid. Luc is useful, but so far he hasn't contributed as much to the group, and Chase's offense is better.

[Dark Sage]

Let's see "ORKO"ing in action.

Average enemy 9 HP 4 defense

Chase 3+6=9-4= 5 damage

He would require Charge to activate if he rolls lower than 6 to ORKO. Admitedly, with a 5 and Zephyrtwine, he can do the same, but still, HP drain is a liability, so you don't want to rely on that. If charge does activate, he would need to roll a 4 every single time to ORKO them.

And Arcanium can allow Esphyr to hit resistance, which many physical units don't have correct?

Edited September 29, 2010 by Yoshimitsu

[Snowy_One]

They tend to not have much RES, no.

[riariadne]

Average enemy defense is closer to 3, actually, and Chase uses the Zephyrtwine most of the time. So a 2 4s, a 3 and a 5, a 2 and a 6, or anything better will ORKO, and Charge has a pretty good activation rate.

Even still, that's much better than most units. Average enemy speed is 4, which means only units with 6 speed can double. To compare to the people you're saying should go above him him to: Eric can double but does worse damage unless he has Resolve active (and even then is matched if Chase is using ZTwine) Derek doesn't always double (5 speed), Esphyr doesn't always double (5 speed), and Luc never doubles (4 speed), giving him a very good damage output.

[Dark Sage]

1. Not really. Recent enemies have more like 4 defense or so.

2. Zephyrtwine has health drain, making Chase vulnerable.

3. Requiring 2 4's, a 3, and a 5 requires good luck.

In short, Chase's combat is overhyped.

[riariadne]

1. Not seeing it at all.

2. Unless any enemy has 4 str and rolls a 6 or gets a crit, Chase won't be getting OHKO'd.

3. A 1/4 chance of ORKO (without Charge and crits, mind you) is much better than nearly anyone else has.

[Snike]

This is Stat Nazi, ripping apart stupid arguments.

Derek is debatable: he has better defense and only slightly worse offense, but less avoid.

12HP 4STR 6DEF 6 EVD only loses to ZTwine!Chase in avoid. He matches STR.

Eric can double but does worse damage unless he has Resolve active (and even then is matched if Chase is using ZTwine)

Untrue. Resolve!Eric has 5 MT thanks to fire support, which is better than Chase. Plus, 9 Evade is sexy.

Derek doesn't always double (5 speed)

He has 4 speed.

[Script]

Average enemy defense in the latest battle was 2.4(excluding bosses). I'm inclined to round that to 2 on the basis that there were more lesser defense units.

[riariadne]

12HP 4STR 6DEF 6 EVD only loses to ZTwine!Chase in avoid. He matches STR.

Untrue. Resolve!Eric has 5 MT thanks to fire support, which is better than Chase. Plus, 9 Evade is sexy.

He has 4 speed.

Chase's offense is technically still better.

Resolve speed only grants half evade, so that's 8.

Even worse.