Lord of Azure Flames Tier List

[Snike]

Chase's offense is technically still better.

Resolve speed only grants half evade, so that's 8.

Even worse.

1. Doubling at the cost of -1HP and a counter is not exactly what I would consider 'better'.

2. My bad. Still, at that point, he's Chase +3/5 AS/SKL, 1 MT, and a high critical hit rate, without the HP drain.

3. Stat Nazi is a stat Nazi for a reason.

But, uh, yeah, his offense isn't that much better to warrant a tier difference, especially considering his defensive game.

[Balcerzak]

1. Doubling at the cost of -1HP and a counter is not exactly what I would consider 'better'.

It's -1HP per attack, so if he's doubling with CW active, that's -2 HP.

-more if Charge activates.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Dark Sage]

Thing is, in order for Chase's strength to be adequate, he requires the Zephyrtwine.

And a 9 HP enemy with 3 def is impossible by the way.

[Snike]

It's -1HP per attack, so if he's doubling with CW active, that's -2 HP.

-more if Charge activates.

...

I did not know that. But that sort of goes to further prove my point. :/

[riariadne]

Chae can and has used Killer Bow to deal decent damage, and as shown by Script, 2 def is closer to average. So Chase ORKO's with Killer bow at 1/4 chance. With Zephyrtwine, that's increased even more: two 3s, a 4 and a 2, a 1 and a 5, and anything better kills, which is a rather high chance. And that's ignoring Charge.

@Resolve!Eric: Resolve isn't active by choice. Eric has to take a hit or 2 to activate it. Charge does not HAVE to be used, and Chase has the choice of ZTwine or Killer.

[Dark Sage]

Ok. Derek also has Charge and he has equal strength and higher defense as well. His evade is 6, meaning a 3 skill enemy needs a 4 to hit him and if the enemy has 4 strength, they need a three or higher to do damage to him. Not only that but he has 12 HP so he can not only dodge ok, but he can also deal repectable damage and tank very effectively. This does not qualify a tier's difference between Chase and Derek, let alone Morgan, who may have credit for establishing the group somewhat (Damian had a part in it as well), but her combat abilities are inferior to everyone below her.

[Snowy_One]

Keep in mind that a CW slowly grows in power with each round. So assuming someone can heal a person with a CW active, it can grow in power to 1HKO. May take a while, but it can do that. Also,... Ummm... A CW alternates in it's targeting of RES and DEF. Esphyr's Arcanium likely overrides this (seeing as she hits RES, even though she would be targeting DEF if it was just the CW), but still...

[Script]

I thought just the self-damage grew, not the bonus damage.

[Dark Sage]

Crimson Weapons can do what now?

[Snowy_One]

It's been in the sign-up since day 1...

[Inactive Account]

Yeah, I thought that was just the self-damage... which... everyone promptly forgot about...

[Script]

It's been in the sign-up since day 1...

There's no words of them dealing more damage as time goes on, just a description that they just leech more HP per use the more they're used in a single battle.

[Purg]

Odd. I thought Snowy hated lawyers, yet apparently he's been aware of something he had in the small print all the time, without mentioning it to anyone until now.

[Psych]

We've just been lawyered.

Good thing me, Script......who else doesn't have a character with a weapon? >_>

Snike and Merc!

Good thing we don't have to pay attention! Bal has to now that he has Helios though. :/

[Snike]

Keep in mind that a CW slowly grows in power with each round. So assuming someone can heal a person with a CW active, it can grow in power to 1HKO. May take a while, but it can do that. Also,... Ummm... A CW alternates in it's targeting of RES and DEF. Esphyr's Arcanium likely overrides this (seeing as she hits RES, even though she would be targeting DEF if it was just the CW), but still...

As mentioned above, Crimson weapons are very powerful weapons. So powerful that there are only nine of them in the world. A sword, lance, axe, bow, dagger, and one for dark, wind, thunder, and fire. In order to use a crimson weapon, your character simply needs to call its name. Upon taking a Crimson weapon, you negate the weapon triangle entirely and gain a +1 to all your attacks (daggers go from -1 to 0). Additionally, all your attacks alternate between targeting defense and resistance with the first attack made hitting the proper stat. However, there is a cost. Every attack you make costs you 1 HP (even if you miss), and this effect slowly increases over time. The first two times, it costs only 1 HP, the next two, it costs 2 HP per attack, than 3 HP, etc. The only way to reset these stacks is to have combat end and rest for a bit. Additionally, if the weapon type had a special ability (like bows) that ability is removed.

Italics: Flawed Statement

Bold one: Crimson Damage Bonuses

Bold two: Crimson Damage costs.

There is nothing about Crimson Power stacks, Just self-damage stacks. Good day, sir.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Snike

[-Cynthia-]

We've always just played it as -1HP per attack, +1 Dmg per attack, ignore WT, not all the other stuff.

[Kanami]

Odd. I thought Snowy hated lawyers, yet apparently he's been aware of something he had in the small print all the time, without mentioning it to anyone until now.

As Snike pointed out before me, it's not in the fineprint. XD

Where's Kai :/ He's got a chance to actually sound proper using his law (game) terms XD

[Dark Sage]

Kai gave Helios to Balcerzak and quit the RP I believe.

Anyway, i really think Morgan should go lower, being inferior combat wise on everyone on the list. Simply being the leader or crediting recruitment is not a good enough idea. Otherwise, you'd have to credit Reika to bringing in Alf basically she's the reason why he was let in. He was hired by her and she was useful and needed to come along. Or crediting Irina with Lev's recruitment partially.

[riariadne]

I actually did the increasing self damage thing at first, but then I saw that everyone else was ignoring it so I did too.

Well I could make a case that Reika was hurting the party as an NPC as well. The point is that Morgan is keeping the group together and is so far doing much better than everyone else who has tried to, making her important.

Morgan is now below Irina though.

[Dark Sage]

Combat still is a major portion though. You can't just handwave all her problems with, oh she's the leader and kept them together. She's barely keeping them together. It's not so much her as it is the nature of the group in general, but you can't just ignore her lackluster combat with that. Because honestly, Morgan's stats are mediocre. Morgan has bad durability, medium hit, and is far exceeded skill wise and damage wise by everyone a tier below her.

[Balcerzak]

Combat still is a major portion though. You can't just handwave all her problems with, oh she's the leader and kept them together. She's barely keeping them together. It's not so much her as it is the nature of the group in general, but you can't just ignore her lackluster combat with that. Because honestly, Morgan's stats are mediocre. Morgan has bad durability, medium hit, and is far exceeded skill wise and damage wise by everyone a tier below her.

Since when was 6(7) Mag, hitting on Res considered bad? She rolls a 3 or higher and she's 1HKO-ing those 9HP dudes that you were discussing Chase possibly having problems one-rounding (assuming 1 Res, which feels fair). 1HKO means they don't counter and her durability isn't that bad.

Enemy phase is a problem, sure, but that's what Miracle is for.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Balcerzak

[-Cynthia-]

Does this list argue who has benefitted the party the most overall, or who is the best theoretically in combat at this point in time? Because if it is the former, this list is entirely off IMO (Isotov has benefitted the party more than Aiya for instance).

[Snike]

Does this list argue who has benefitted the party the most overall, or who is the best theoretically in combat at this point in time? Because if it is the former, this list is entirely off IMO (Helios has benefitted the party more than Aiya for instance).

Fixed.

[Dark Sage]

It;s...supposed to be a mix.

Morgan doesn't double a thing and Miracle, while useful, isn't that good on Morgan since she can easily be smacked down again. Not only that, but while it's true she hits hard, her skill is also merely average, so hitting some enemies is a problem for her. She's a classic squishy wizard and while her damage output is nice, she is not near top of high tier in terms of combat ability.

[Balcerzak]

It;s...supposed to be a mix.

Morgan doesn't double a thing and Miracle, while useful, isn't that good on Morgan since she can easily be smacked down again. Not only that, but while it's true she hits hard, her skill is also merely average, so hitting some enemies is a problem for her. She's a classic squishy wizard and while her damage output is nice, she is not near top of high tier in terms of combat ability.

She has 4 speed and 3 skill. 4 Speed is not bad as far as doubling goes, and is exactly the same speed that Damian, Aiya, Luc, Derek, et al. have. Furthermore, Chase, Damian, Aiya, et al. are only 1 skill up on her, which isn't going to make that large a difference. If majority were sporting 5 skill and she were at 2 skill, I could see you maybe having a point, but as is? Hell no. Morgan's offensive output is very solid.

Low defense and Miracle -> 2RKO. Medium defense and no Miracle -> 2RKO. Again, I'm failing to see a problem.