H3 (Lunatic) Tier List

[Parrhesia]

I tried to envision an Armour Knight Macellan trying to fight in the endgame, and threw up in my mouth a little.

I guess you could use it for Wi-Fi, but eh.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Furetchen

[Dark Sage]

On another note, wtf at Linde being top of Upper Mid. She sux.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Dark Sage

[Vorena]

-She comes early. Nosferatu and Aura bomb unique access early on. Reclass her to a healer on chapters she cannot really attack on. She had D in magic for instant Shaver use. And if you need to she could be a gharnef killer. She can have utility throughout out the game.

-Arran only has his early chapters.

-Ryan has prologue and early chapter usage, but his speed does him in later in the game with a poor base and shaky growth stat.

-Merric does not come in until chapter 10 and has a bit of prologue and flying dragon killing. His weapon staff ranking will be pretty bad if you try to train it up 7 chapters that linde has had to raise her's. So, excaliber use and probably drop him.

-Belf and Leiden come in the middle of the dragon chapters and need some work. But they don't get doubled if reclassed.

-Jeorge has short term use.

-No idea about Darros.

But, considering a lot of units in this game, she can actually be useful throughout the whole game while upper mid has its moments of uses mostly.

[Paperblade]

Shaver is replaced by a Steel Bow and any of the half a dozen D+ Bow users you have (cough Ryan cough Arran) and Linde/Shaver aren't even around in Ch. 2/3 where it's most useful (by Ch. 9 and 11 Ryan can be using Silver or maybe even Parthia)

Nosferatu requires extra resources since Linde is OHKO'd the entire game without robes, and Ryan with Speedwings or whathaveyou will actually be a good combat unit since he's not reliant on a weapon that you only have 24 uses of prior to Ch. 17 to survive combat.

Aura is replaced by a Steel Bow forge (which tbh you should be doing anyway since it makes Ch. 2 and 3 so much easier).

Edited June 14, 2012 by Paperblade

[grandjackal]

Wtf is this Ryan with a wing nonsense? Care to show the math on that one, swami Paperblade?

Also, forges are for luxurious pigs and quitters

EDIT: Not arguing on Linde's behalf, just seriously. Wtf is this nonsense with Ryan?

Edited June 14, 2012 by grandjackal

[Paperblade]

I didn't actually do any math

[grandjackal]

So it's nonsense. Uhh...Ok. Moving on I guess.

[Colonel M]

Wtf is this Ryan with a wing nonsense? Care to show the math on that one, swami Paperblade?

Also, forges are for luxurious pigs and quitters

EDIT: Not arguing on Linde's behalf, just seriously. Wtf is this nonsense with Ryan?

You mean the same nonsense as giving Linde possibly how many Angelic Robes?

[Dark Sage]

So it's nonsense. Uhh...Ok. Moving on I guess.

I don't think it's anymore nonsense than giving Linde several kilo-mias worth of favoritism.

Besides, you were asking earlier how we can use the rest of the speedwings of the game, and Ryan doesn't seem like a terrible candidate.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

You misrepresent my arguments on Linde. She gets exactly 1 angelic robe, plus the Spirit Dust that gets accumulated throughout the game that is earmarked for your Gharnef-slaying mage anyway (who is her if you're training her). The other things she has access to are exclusively hers (Aura, Resire), and she gets her share of kills and nothing else.

In both of my serious playthroughs I've shown that Linde with just that 2500 gold investment easily pulls her own weight and more throughout the game.

[grandjackal]

I don't think it's anymore nonsense than giving Linde several kilo-mias worth of favoritism.

While I'm not so rabid as to defend her tooth and nail, a single robe is "favoritism"?

Besides, you were asking earlier how we can use the rest of the speedwings of the game, and Ryan doesn't seem like a terrible candidate.

In what way? I know we realized we actually have a ton of wings, but why Ryan? Like come on, I get the joke already, "har har Linde gets a robe so Ryan with wings is just as sound".

...Seriously though, if you got numbers then that would be cool, because I'm sick of not having a dedicated archer on my team.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

While I'm not so rabid as to defend her tooth and nail, a single robe is "favoritism"?

In what way? I know we realized we actually have a ton of wings, but why Ryan? Like come on, I get the joke already, "har har Linde gets a robe so Ryan with wings is just as sound".

...Seriously though, if you got numbers then that would be cool, because I'm sick of not having a dedicated archer on my team.

I like using Draug as my dedicated hunter, but that's just me. He builds bow rank pretty quickly, and not having a high starting rank isn't a huge deal.

[PKL]

I like using Draug as my dedicated hunter, but that's just me. He builds bow rank pretty quickly, and not having a high starting rank isn't a huge deal.

How is not having Steel Bow access "not a huge deal"?

Also, while Im too lazy to get stats and stuff. A Speedwing could definetely benefit Ryan.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Professor PicKLe

[eclipse]

Ryan can go Hunter, too. He loses 5% Speed growth, but gains 2 Speed and 1 Move, and retains his awesome bow rank.

[Colonel M]

Actually, I think it's possible to argue Ryan > Linde based on his bow using meaty chip in the valley alone, then once he gets back to the mainland he can Horseman it up and crush Linde in movement for wtforever.

[grandjackal]

Sorry for being away, was moving cross country and some junk.

While I was away and stuff, decided to test out some stuff. Namely the issue of gold and stat boosters and weapons.

First off, to get all the boosters you would care to have (as in not secret books or goddess icons, though weapon scrolls are kinda optional and situational), it would be around chapter 11 to have them from the in base shop (assuming you spent like no money, and sold all your vulneries). It really does feel like I can get what stat boosters I want whenever I want to I felt so unrestrained with my gold.

Secondly yeah, testing out if you even need to spend money because this game throws weapons at you like it's going out of style. I have bought a single Iron Axe because I was afraid the game doesn't give you axes, then the map gives me a Steel in the desert. Note that I was also using Saji/Maji/Barts/Minerva (I'm doing tests on Normal, so weapon efficiency would be more lax there as I may have been using weapons dumbly, also having too many axe users and no bow users (or lance users for that matter. If you had more of both, I think the whole weapon defficiency problem disappears).

I also was not using the arena until I had those boosters, nor did I forge, so obviously if your strats call for a forge, some boosters may have to wait. This is also implying that you never use the arena until the valley, which is silly. But still, you have so much that it just feels like there is plenty of liniency with the boosters. You just have to kinda spread them out over time since you might use forges and will be using the arena.

I dunno what forges tend to be assumed other than a Steel Bow early. I never really found a need for forges though since you have the RP and THE SHARDS for a good portion of the game, and by lategame your team is made of insanity anyways. Unless dondon is like "I made a +16 Silver because I want to feel like I'm playing FE7 again".

I know bringing this up is random, but how much does that Steel Bow forge cost? Because on top of it you could get 3 other boosters.

Edited June 20, 2012 by grandjackal

[Dark Sage]

Secondly yeah, testing out if you even need to spend money because this game throws weapons at you like it's going out of style. I have bought a single Iron Axe because I was afraid the game doesn't give you axes, then the map gives me a Steel in the desert. Note that I was also using Saji/Maji/Barts/Minerva (I'm doing tests on Normal, so weapon efficiency would be more lax there as I may have been using weapons dumbly, also having too many axe users and no bow users (or lance users for that matter. If you had more of both, I think the whole weapon defficiency problem disappears).

No offense, but I don't think your test is particularly useful because you're playing on a mode where anybody can ORKO with only an Iron weapon unless it's either an Iron Sword or you're using just completely awful units like Samto. I suggest testing this out on Hard or Maniac (probably Maniac is best since it's very similar to Lunatic).

I dunno what forges tend to be assumed other than a Steel Bow early. I never really found a need for forges though since you have the RP and THE SHARDS for a good portion of the game, and by lategame your team is made of insanity anyways. Unless dondon is like "I made a +16 Silver because I want to feel like I'm playing FE7 again".

Well Balcerzak made a Javelin forge pretty early (which helped him 7 turn Chapter 5) and it's pretty typical to forge the W1n Spear to make sure Sheeda can OHKO armors in Chapter 5 and 6 and can ORKO Lang if needed. It's a worthy investment that should be also be useful back on the mainland. I've been doing a Lunatic run myself and the Wing Spear forge I made was a +4 forge, but my Sheeda has like 7 strength and I have no Rainbow Potion, so you can probably get away with a +3 forge on it.

Lategame is really when you want to start making more forges. Brave Forges are obvious, but Colonel M also recommended a +1 Wyrmslayer forge too. A Longbow forge could potentially be helpful, but I'm not so sure on that one.

I'll see if I can find to show whether or not Ryan could benefit from an early speedwing. He could stand to rise maybe.

[grandjackal]

No offense, but I don't think your test is particularly useful because you're playing on a mode where anybody can ORKO with only an Iron weapon unless it's either an Iron Sword or you're using just completely awful units like Samto. I suggest testing this out on Hard or Maniac (probably Maniac is best since it's very similar to Lunatic).

Can understand your thoughts, but all things considered the game gave me more than enough Steel anyways. Was using 4 axe users ffs, and I still had enough weapons for all of them in the form of Steel.

Well Balcerzak made a Javelin forge pretty early (which helped him 7 turn Chapter 5) and it's pretty typical to forge the W1n Spear to make sure Sheeda can OHKO armors in Chapter 5 and 6 and can ORKO Lang if needed. It's a worthy investment that should be also be useful back on the mainland. I've been doing a Lunatic run myself and the Wing Spear forge I made was a +4 forge, but my Sheeda has like 7 strength and I have no Rainbow Potion, so you can probably get away with a +3 forge on it.

Lategame is really when you want to start making more forges. Brave Forges are obvious, but Colonel M also recommended a +1 Wyrmslayer forge too. A Longbow forge could potentially be helpful, but I'm not so sure on that one.

I'll see if I can find to show whether or not Ryan could benefit from an early speedwing. He could stand to rise maybe.

Well in lategame you don't really have other things to spend money on anyways until the chapter before last. It's those early forges I'm interested in for their prices.

[Dark Sage]

I think you're underestimating how much weapons you get. I;m looking at this Maniac file I have (it's on the stage with Gharnef) and I found that not only am I hurting for swords, but the only swords that are not close to breaking are my Steel Swords. Buying stuff like Silver Swords is actually important lategame because you only have so many uses of your Braves and your special weapons (Master Sword, Longbow, etc.) and the Hammerene staff is better used on stuff like Again and Rescue.

As for how much the forges cost, you can find out with this.

[grandjackal]

I think you're underestimating how much weapons you get. I;m looking at this Maniac file I have (it's on the stage with Gharnef) and I found that not only am I hurting for swords, but the only swords that are not close to breaking are my Steel Swords. Buying stuff like Silver Swords is actually important lategame because you only have so many uses of your Braves and your special weapons (Master Sword, Longbow, etc.) and the Hammerene staff is better used on stuff like Again and Rescue.

You're hurting for swords, yet you have plenty of Steel? Do you not see how strange your statement is? If you have that much steel, you should have used more steel. If it's that late in, just sell them for better stuff then.

As for how much the forges cost, you can find out with this.

Well what are the forges specifically? Cause...Well, I don't use forges in this game. I dunno the specifics.

[Dark Sage]

You're hurting for swords, yet you have plenty of Steel? Do you not see how strange your statement is? If you have that much steel, you should have used more steel. If it's that late in, just sell them for better stuff then.

Who said I have plenty? I only have 2 or 3 Steel Swords. And there's not really any better stuff I can buy with the money I'd sell them for anyway.

Well what are the forges specifically? Cause...Well, I don't use forges in this game. I dunno the specifics.

Wing Spear and the Steel Bow forge. Former is usually +3/+4 MT, latter is +5 MT. Maybe a Javelin forge too.

[grandjackal]

Who said I have plenty? I only have 2 or 3 Steel Swords. And there's not really any better stuff I can buy with the money I'd sell them for anyway.

Sounds like plenty to me. Start using them.

Wing Spear and the Steel Bow forge. Former is usually +3/+4 MT, latter is +5 MT. Maybe a Javelin forge too.

Wing Spear is like 3360 gold, which is innocent enough considering it's effects. The bow however is completely ridiculous. It's like 6-7K. Dracos are not this big a deal, and if you're saying it carries on with Flying Dragons, that's 3 Silver Bows you don't have which are like 1 mt weaker. I can't see how the bow it's worth it.

As for the Javelin, I don't really care. One way it's just one turn, the other way it's not expensive.

[Colonel M]

Wing Spear can likely wait on its forge until you get back to the mainlands if you're that desperate for money. Might be better considering it gives more flexibility of the Steel Bow forge.

[Espinosa]

What sort of power is it agreed that Wing Spear should have? Just enough to 1RKO Generals (like the ones in the chapter with mad Hardin)? OHKO them (this must be one hell of a forge though)? I'd really like to know the idea behind those calculations.

[Colonel M]

Originally I made the forge to just OHKO the Chapter 5 AKs. I didn't plan much further than that.

It should have just enough power to ORKO Generals, including bosses. Granted this is coming off the top of my head, but this shouldn't be much with the Lightsphere, Starsphere, and DracoKnight.