Spykor's character rating and discussion topic!

[Integrity]

As for Raddy's rating, my guess is that he's taking Radd's growths and great lategame into account. He still knows that Radd is downright crap due to his shit bases(2HP/1Str/-1Skl/-1Spd/1Lck/2Def for absolute bases? ).

Radd's rating was merely to make a point. I think it's a fair enough rating that I'm not going to challenge it, but the point I was trying to make is thus:

Radd > Jagen because Jagen loses effectiveness. However, Radd is never deployed under the same logic.

Radd could be substituted for Maria, Caesar, Macellan, hell I don't care.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Integrity

[eclipse]

*sees Jagen's rating*

*facepalms*

Never mind the fact that he can reclass to Dracoknight (flies, and gets a decent stat spread), Swordmaster (insta-Armorslayer/Wyrmslayer), or Sniper (hello Longbows!), OR go Bishop to become a half-decent healbot. . .

On NM, Jagen shouldn't be facing random criticals for a long time. On any of the harder modes, you're relying on his Silver Lance to get the rest of your underwhelming army out of whatever mess they're in. Regardless of what mode you're in, one more early Javelin chipper is a GOOD thing!

If you're worried about WTD, he can also instantly equip a Steel Sword, to eliminate such problems. . .though why you'd do that is beyond me.

[Jaybee]

But why would you use him when your cavs do better than him after a couple levels?

Also for bosses:

Chapter 1: Silver Lance has WTD and boss has lack of two range. Abel, Cain, Frey, and Marth can all dodge his attacks.

Chapter 2: Silver Lance has WTD and boss has 1~2 range, but that means higher dodge for blue units, and you get Ogma who can fare easier than Jagen.

Chapter 3: Besides WTD, Jagens useful here.

Chapter 4: Jagen gets ridersbaned without reclass, with reclass hes meh.

Chapter 5: You now have Hardin, who deserves the silver lance more.

All Jagen is is an earlygame silver.

Chapter 1: Please don't tell me you're gonna try to use the Javelin on the boss. And everyone's dodge chances are unreliable.

Chapter 2: Jeigan gets to the boss faster than everyone else save maybe lolCastor.

Chapter 3: Finally, we're in agreement. It's also good to point out the boss has 14 Spd and IIRC barely 3RKOs Jeigan, meaning Jeigan can take 2 swings with his Silver Lance.

Chapter 4: Marth, or flying Jeigan.

Chapter 5: Jeigan can fly to Hardin to trade him the damn lance. Without that flying utility, Hardin wouldn't get the lance till much later.

Also, consider how your only fliers until Minerva will likely be Jeigan and Shiida, which allows for a lot of utility. Jeigan can nuke a fuckload of stuff with Silver Lance to get the team out in a pinch. Worst comes to worst, you can reclass him to Bishop for Physic after a few chapters. I don't see how this is a 2. 2*3, possible.

[Galenforcer]

It's ratings like these that make me miss Colonel M's rating topic from back in the day.

[Darros]

[redacted]

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Darros

[Galenforcer]

I could see Warp hax being a lot better than a 0.

[Darros]

I could see Warp hax being a lot better than a 0.

But you have 4 other units who could use them by his arrival.

[Integrity]

But you have 4 other units who could use them by his arrival.

Slippery slope, brosauce. You're still on it.

[Parrhesia]

Zero for Boah doesn't work unless you give, like, Macellan a minus two or something. Boah's promoted with staff rank and Macellan has nice growths he'll NEVER ACTIVATE.

[riariadne]

Okay, seriously, what the hell. How on earth is Jagen a 2 ad Boah a 0 ever. There's something seriously wrong with that, no matter what mode. Boah is not a 0. That would be Est. And Est will never, ever, ever, ever, ever be better than Boah in this game ever. EVER. No matter what way you put it, that's just... wrong.

[Integrity]

Okay, seriously, what the hell. How on earth is Jagen a 2 ad Boah a 0 ever. There's something seriously wrong with that, no matter what mode. Boah is not a 0. That would be Est. And Est will never, ever, ever, ever, ever be better than Boah in this game ever. EVER. No matter what way you put it, that's just... wrong.

Est is absolutely better than Boah, if we're not counting availability and if she's spoon-fed kills for ten levels or so. Unfortunately, we seem to be assuming that nobody outside of the A-Team will ever be fed any kills.

[dondon151]

Boah is still better than Est even if Est were given EXP. Boah has Warp and Excalibur.

[Narga_Rocks]

Est is absolutely better than Boah, if we're not counting availability and if she's spoon-fed kills for ten levels or so. Unfortunately, we seem to be assuming that nobody outside of the A-Team will ever be fed any kills.

But if you don't slow down for her, how many kills can she reasonably be fed in order to build her? How quickly will she even become useful, if ever? You don't need to use A-Team only for her to be bad. If you add her to a team that is demolishing H5 by way of warp, how is a unit that only exists in 1 to 3 turn chapters going to amount to anything when she starts so low? Even without warpskip it's not like you are snailing chapters giving her every kill on the map.

[Dark Sage]

I have issues with this topic.

Frankly, the topic doesn't really inform. It just lists a few stats out and ignores things like reclassing. Also newsflash. We're not ditching units because someone else is better, or we would get results like Wendell 1 (LOL) Jeigan 2 (Wait...) and George 0. Your ratings are also inconsistent. What is Radd doing that warrants 2.5 points above Jeigan. By your logic, he should get a 0.

Finally Sheeda and Jeigan need to be higher. Sheeda is hands down the best unit in the game, ORKOing armors, cavs, paladins, 2RKOs generals and is an excellent bosskiller. She can transfer to Paladin for swords and higher speed cap or stick with Dracoknight for axes.

Also why do you keep jumping around characters?

[Integrity]

But if you don't slow down for her, how many kills can she reasonably be fed in order to build her? How quickly will she even become useful, if ever? You don't need to use A-Team only for her to be bad. If you add her to a team that is demolishing H5 by way of warp, how is a unit that only exists in 1 to 3 turn chapters going to amount to anything when she starts so low? Even without warpskip it's not like you are snailing chapters giving her every kill on the map.

Est can become useful for my definition of useful from two to three chapters of my normal playspeed. She's never A-Team material - and it takes booster favoritism to even get her to B-Team material - but she's still a better spent slot at that point than some of the competition. Maybe not Boah, though; I'll be perfectly honest with you, I've never used Boah for anything ever except to die to keep Midia alive.

And if you're adding her to a team that's demolishing H5 by way of warp, your rankings would still be like my aforementioned in the thread: Caeda 10, Lena 10, Wolf/Sedgar/Jeigan/a select other few 9, everybody else 0-1 except some staffers like Wendell and Boah and Elice who come with auto-Warpability. Therefore I presume it necessary that we're not Warpdemolishing the game so as to keep provoking discussion.

Now, let it be said, I'm no proponent of Est. I don't even think she's all that good - I'd probably rank her at a 3 or thereabouts - but you don't, in my experience, have to slow down to a snail's pace to make her workable. Do remember that my experience tends to be a tad slower than most on the forum, though.

@dondon: Fair point.

LATE EDIT: Why in God's name am I passionately arguing for Est, of all people? I don't even like her.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Integrity

[Anouleth]

Est can become useful for my definition of useful from two to three chapters of my normal playspeed. She's never A-Team material - and it takes booster favoritism to even get her to B-Team material - but she's still a better spent slot at that point than some of the competition. Maybe not Boah, though; I'll be perfectly honest with you, I've never used Boah for anything ever except to die to keep Midia alive.

And if you're adding her to a team that's demolishing H5 by way of warp, your rankings would still be like my aforementioned in the thread: Caeda 10, Lena 10, Wolf/Sedgar/Jeigan/a select other few 9, everybody else 0-1 except some staffers like Wendell and Boah and Elice who come with auto-Warpability. Therefore I presume it necessary that we're not Warpdemolishing the game so as to keep provoking discussion.

Now, let it be said, I'm no proponent of Est. I don't even think she's all that good - I'd probably rank her at a 3 or thereabouts - but you don't, in my experience, have to slow down to a snail's pace to make her workable. Do remember that my experience tends to be a tad slower than most on the forum, though.

@dondon: Fair point.

LATE EDIT: Why in God's name am I passionately arguing for Est, of all people? I don't even like her.

Wolf/Sedgar aren't 9 or 10 in Warpskip. How can growth units that require a loooad of exp to get anywhere and have awful weapon ranks and a poor class set to begin with be a 9 or 10?

[Narga_Rocks]

Wolf/Sedgar aren't 9 or 10 in Warpskip. How can growth units that require a loooad of exp to get anywhere and have awful weapon ranks and a poor class set to begin with be a 9 or 10?

I think the focus of his point was that you'd have a small number of units as 8 or above and the rest would be 2 or less. If one or two fewer units (Wolf and Sedgar) just happen to not be worth the 9 or 10 then that's just that many fewer 8+es.

[Integrity]

Narga nailed it. What's that, the third time I've made that same point in this thread? :P

Hell, logically the rest would be -literally- zeroes because you'd never deploy them ever. Unless you ranked them based on their starting gear, I suppose?