Janissary Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) I've been pretty bored lately, and been thinking about finding something to do. After I heard about the FE 9/10 super draft, something popped into my mind... What if we did a combined super draft of FE 6/7? This will be a 5 person draft tournament in which competitors will select parties for the two Elibe Fire Emblem games simultaneously. Each game will be scored individually initally. The lowest turn count in each game receives 5 points, second 4, third 3, and so on. The highest point total between both games wins the draft. This method will help to mitigate the fact that FE6 is longer than FE7 (and thus, FE6 units are inherently more valuable simply due to a longer game to lower turn counts). This does however mean that the winner may not actually have the lowest absolute turncount (though, to be fair, that outcome is extremely unlikely). Free Units for all: Roy, Hector, Merlinus, Marcus, Ninian/Nils, Lalum/Elphin, Athos, Matthew/Chad*** ***Matthew and Chad may only be used freely to open doors/chests. Stealing and combat are reserved for those who choose Matthew and Chad in the draft. Note: Lyn, Kent, Sain, and Wil are free to use for combat in Chapter 16 of HHM due the difficulty in completing the chapter without penalties if all four are undrafted. [spoiler=Draft List] Draft Complete!!! [spoiler=Rules] Difficulty: FE6NM and FE7HHM RNG: Don't abuse it. Save states are ok for boss fights in FE6 due to the nature of FE6's RNG, but please do not use them to abuse stat gains. Have more respect for the competition than that. Gaiden chapters: * FE6: You must go to all gaidens. * FE7: 19xx and 22x/23x (Genesis) are prohibited. 28x does not count against turncounts up to 20 turns. All other gaidens are required. Undrafted units cannot do ANYTHING EXCEPT: Shop, trade, rescue undrafted characters, recruit characters, Find Desert Treasure. Turn penalties for breaking the above: 4 turns per unit per chapter. Multiple actions by the same unit do not incur multiple penalties. * FE6: 20x Sacae and 20x Ilia do not count against total turns up to 20 taken per. Draft Order and Teams: 1. JaketheGr3at FE6: Alan, Bartre, Lugh, Oujay, Zealot, Shin, Niime, Astohl, Fa, Dayan FE7: Bartre, Florina, Erk, Harken, Dorcas, Jaffar, Nino, Karla 2. Red Fox of Fire FE6: Miledy, Lot, Tate, Treck, Cecilia, Klein, Cath, Garret, Yuno, Douglas, Wendy FE7: Priscilla, Guy, Heath, Oswin, Dart, Louise 3. General Horace FE6: Lance, Rutgar, Saul, Percival, Fir, Zeiss, Geese, Yodel, Barth, Sofiya FE7: Pent, Lucius, Kent, Farina, Hawkeye, Vaida, Rebecca 4. Second Pronoun FE6: Clarine, Ellen, Noah, Chad, Sue, Ward, Wolt, Karel, Dorothy FE7: Sain, Lowen, Fiora, Matthew, Lyn, Legault, Karel, Wil, Wallace 5. Janissary FE6: Dieck, Thany, Gonzalez, Echidna, Ray, Lilina, Bors, Igrene, Hugh FE7: Raven, Serra, Eliwood, Isadora, Canas, Rath, Renault, Geitz Edited July 21, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 How would this work? Pretty much all of FE9's cast appears in FE10, so they could pull that one off. How much of FE7's cast appears in FE6? Like, Karel, Barftray, and...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerachi Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Um, maybe something like the FE4 Draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) How would this work? Pretty much all of FE9's cast appears in FE10, so they could pull that one off. How much of FE7's cast appears in FE6? Like, Karel, Barftray, and...? That's a fair point. Like I said, I need to look at the two game units (I think you named them all though, except Marcus, who will end up being free). After I do that, I invisioned having one huge pool of characters over both games that are drafted from simultaneously. So, you might select Lance, but the next pick could be Lowen. The only real connecting factor is Elibe... but that's not the point :p. I just wanted to try something different, if others were up to it. Edit: So, I checked the numbers. There are 94 unique playable characters in both games (98 total characters). If the 4 Lord, Marcus, and Merlinus are given free, that would leave a 22 unit team 4 person draft (alternatively, Eliwood and Lyn are not free for a 20 unit team 5 person draft). Drafting would have no real rules on how to pick your team... you can try to solo FE7 with Hector/Marcus if you want in order to have a huge FE6 team. That would be part of this format. Edited June 13, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) If I counted correctly, between the two games, there are 97 characters, minus Marcus, Old Marcus, Athos, Roy, Hector, Lalum, Elphin, and Fa, Bartre, Karel, Nils and Ninian leaves 85 84 units. (Assuming if you pick Bartre/Karel you get them in both games, and the rest are free) Leaves 14 + Free units for 6 people between the two games, or remove a freebie and have 17 per team with 5 people, or 21 per team for 4. You might want to check my math though. I would be up for it however. EDIT: Hold on, I think I failed at math. Fix'd Edited June 13, 2011 by General_Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I actually counted nils and Ninian individually. Is that fair? Also, does Athos néed to be free? Is he really that important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Athos saves you a turn or two on the dragon, and maybe another in the final chapter. It's your draft though, do as you see fit. I also counted Ninian and Nils individually, but it's up to your discretion, I personally don't have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I will think and post further tommorow. Please provide any feedback you have about anything or advice on who should be free etc. The only sure frees I see are main lords merlinus and Marcus (both games). Also, what difficulty do you think this should be done on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerachi Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) HM and HHM Respectively. Edited June 13, 2011 by Joerachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Also, make Elphin/Lalum free. They make that much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Athos saves you a turn or two on the dragon, and maybe another in the final chapter. That isn't really a reason considering there are plenty of characters that will be drafted that save more than him. Also, make Elphin/Lalum free. They make that much of a difference. Uh, do they really? Somehow I doubt they'd really be any different than similar characters in the other games (Ninian, Tethys, Reyson, etc.), and those are always drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Uh, do they really? Somehow I doubt they'd really be any different than similar characters in the other games (Ninian, Tethys, Reyson, etc.), and those are always drafted. FE10 Reyson is a different story, but just because the rest are drafted normally doesn't mean that we can't change the precedent. SDS said that Feena should be free in future FE3 DS drafts because she's really strong (given that there's no rescuing in that game, she's pretty OP for a draft). Given how high the average turncount is for FE6, having a dancer might be a huge advantage in that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 That isn't really a reason considering there are plenty of characters that will be drafted that save more than him. Uh, do they really? Somehow I doubt they'd really be any different than similar characters in the other games (Ninian, Tethys, Reyson, etc.), and those are always drafted. I can see what you are saying for Athos, but for Lalum/Elphin being free, they come earlier than Ninian/Tethys, I can't speak for the Tellius series as I haven't played any of them. In an FE6 draft, most of the game requires Marcus/Flier/other high movement unit to haul Roy around while Alan/Lance/Miredy blast though enemies, unlike FE7/8 where either you need Marcus more for combat purposes, or FE 8 where Seth is banned. Dancers in FE6 save at least a turn per chapter, for a longer amount of time. Tethys doesn't exist long enough, and more than half of Ninian's existance, she isn't needed to save any turns at all. (Ch. 23, Ch. 24, Ch. 25, Ch. 26, Ch. 28) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 FE10 Reyson is a different story, but just because the rest are drafted normally doesn't mean that we can't change the precedent. SDS said that Feena should be free in future FE3 DS drafts because she's really strong (given that there's no rescuing in that game, she's pretty OP for a draft). Given how high the average turncount is for FE6, having a dancer might be a huge advantage in that game. I was actually talking more about FE9 Reyson, but it doesn't make much difference. The point is if they make enough of an impact that having them free for everyone is actually important. There are plenty of great units across the games that are drafted (Florina, FE9 Marcia/Jill, FE10 Haar, etc.), so unless Lalum/Elphin are as or near as OP as Marcus/Seth/Titania, I don't think there's a need for them to be free. I'm not against them being free, in case anyone gets the wrong idea. I just don't think it's as important as someone like Marcus that they're free, and in the end I think it would be fine either way, though I never played FE6 as much as the others so I can't be too sure. I can see what you are saying for Athos, but for Lalum/Elphin being free, they come earlier than Ninian/Tethys, I can't speak for the Tellius series as I haven't played any of them. In an FE6 draft, most of the game requires Marcus/Flier/other high movement unit to haul Roy around while Alan/Lance/Miredy blast though enemies, unlike FE7/8 where either you need Marcus more for combat purposes, or FE 8 where Seth is banned. Dancers in FE6 save at least a turn per chapter, for a longer amount of time. Tethys doesn't exist long enough, and more than half of Ninian's existance, she isn't needed to save any turns at all. (Ch. 23, Ch. 24, Ch. 25, Ch. 26, Ch. 28) It also depends on how one is able to use them with they're team. If we can assume they'll be the first units drafted, chances are the ones who get them won't get the good combat/utility units like Lance, Alan, Thany, Miledy, etc., and will be disadvantaged there. Also, how does Ninian not save anything in 23-25? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Chapter 23 is a desert chapter, you are relying on fliers to drop a capable unit close to one boss, then have Pent take out the other. Although if you're lucky, she could save a turn here. If you have a promoted Erk/Canas, (Lucius likely won't be strong enough to promote at this time) you won't even need the flier. Chapter 24, Marcus lures Lloyd on turn 1, and finishes on turn two with help of another unit. For some reason, I thought 25 was a defend chapter, but Ninian still can't go anywhere due to the ballistae/steel lance cavs OHKOing her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Chapter 23 is a desert chapter, you are relying on fliers to drop a capable unit close to one boss, then have Pent take out the other. Although if you're lucky, she could save a turn here. If you have a promoted Erk/Canas, (Lucius likely won't be strong enough to promote at this time) you won't even need the flier. Chapter 24, Marcus lures Lloyd on turn 1, and finishes on turn two with help of another unit. For some reason, I thought 25 was a defend chapter, but Ninian still can't go anywhere due to the ballistae/steel lance cavs OHKOing her. Ninian can speed up a rescue drop on 23 and 25 to start, among whatever else she might get. Especially in a draft run, I wouldn't put it past her to say that she can reasonably save a turn in each map, or at the very least, make them a good deal easier. 24 I don't really know because I haven't been to Lloyd's version of that in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I agree with you on chapter 23, however, in chapter 25, you generally don't need the extra speed on the drop, as it is usually doesn't happen due to the fact that the flier is taking out the right side of the map anyhow. If you don't have Florina/Fiora/Heath, you can't do a rescue drop without taking penalties in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Anyway, Ninian's personal contribution isn't the big factor here, Lalum's/Elphin's is. First off, are they even worth drafting first over Lance/Alan/Miledy, etc? If not, I don't even know why it needs to be considered to make them free. If so, it just needs to be determined if their impact is really big enough to warrant being free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 You could also do it my way, if you're not sure how to distribute crossovers. You could draft in numbers. Instead of people saying: I want Florina & Wolt, they'd say, I want Number two, in this case that would be Sain & Lance. Barring free units, every unit gets a number based on how late he was recruited, the drafters call a number, and get the characters that match the recruitment number in both games. Free units, once again, are not counted. So, 1, 2, free unit, 3, 4, free unit, 5, 6 etc. Just an Idea, but it could solve your idea of how to draft. Good luck, I wont participate, still got some drafts to do. ;) 1: Lyn = Allan 2: Sain = Lance 3: Kent = Wolt Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byte2222 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Um, maybe something like the FE4 Draft? I like this idea (drafting parents gets you their children too), I think it might work well and give units like Nino and Karla a bit more value. NB: I don't have the time, experience or inclination to actually enter, I just wanted to make a comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I like this idea (drafting parents gets you their children too), I think it might work well and give units like Nino and Karla a bit more value. What are the canon parents/children in Elibe? There's: Eliwood/Roy Hector/Lilina Nino/Lugh and Ray Karla and Bartre/Fir Dayan/Rath/Sue Pent and Louise/Clarine and Klein Rebecca/Wolt (this one is never explicitly stated, however) I may have missed a few, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) You missed Niime/Canas/Hugh, Hawkeye/Igrene, and Geese/Geitz (bromates). I actually thought of that idea originally, but I think it probably would have major balancing issues to deal with... EDIT: I also edited in the draft list and rules. If anyone has suggestions to change/add, feel free, but as of now, I think we should be good to go. I am going to be away this weekend, so if this doesn't get off the ground soon, we can just delay it and further determine free units/rulesets. Sorry if I missed anything obvious in the OP, I blatantly stole the generic rule list from the sticky :). Edited June 13, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 *Is Sad* My numbers idea just won't be loved. ;__; Anyway, good luck, i'll be following this. :) Very interested to see the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 *Is Sad* My numbers idea just won't be loved. ;__; Anyway, good luck, i'll be following this. :) Very interested to see the results. It's an intriguing concept, but I don't want to figure out if there are broken numbers. Also, I am a control freak so I like personally selecting every member of my team, even if one is Nino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Pronoun Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I will join in when you get it structured, if I were to do this would we play one game first then another or both simultaneously. If you have trouble you could pair units from each game maybe. One from FE6 and another From FE7 drafted together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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