Welcome to America, the country where you can get away with murder.

[Phoenix Wright]

it's not supposed to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, you're supposed to prove it without reasonable doubt.

the problem was that the prosecution was going for no less than the death penalty. had they settled for something less extreme, maybe this could have gone differently. probably not because she was still an attractive white female, but we can hope.

That's usually what "beyond a shadow of a doubt" means. No one cares about doubts that are unreasonable.

It's kind of pathetic, to me, that you think she got acquitted purely because she's attractive and white. That's bullshit.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Phoenix Wright

[Strawman]

Why are justice, prison, and the death penalty all stupid? I mean, the death penalty is pretty debatable I guess, but prison and the concept of justice itself? I'm think you're going to have a tough time showing how they're wrong.

Not that I'm trying to convince anyone that they're wrong or anything, but I'll at least try to make a little sense.

For now I think I'm going to stick with the explanation that maybe say prison and punishment like that isn't necessarily stupid(they just aren't a very good way to handle criminals, especially if you want them to stop committing crime), but I'll keep the idea of justice being stupid. Especially how people always want others to pay for their crimes, and call that justice. That isn't actually justice(which doesn't even exist really if you think about it), thats consequence/punishment/revenge. Personally I think there are already enough words for when someone "gets what they deserve." Which that phrase in and of itself brings up certain questions about how to determine what someone deserves which brings up questions about who/what determines worth and how/why is it determined. Which is all ultimately unnecessary. I wouldn't say that trying to get someone to not murder/steal/whatever is wrong really, but to punish them for what they do in such a self-serving manner as we do and then to call it justice is just kind of ridiculous. Especially when its so important in our society versus other things that really should be given more attention.

But that probably doesn't make sense, would take much longer to explain, and is extremely impractical. Also this isn't serious discussion and my post is already pretty off topic....

Now about the actual trial, while I don't know much about it I kind of really want to know why everyone thought she was actually guilty when apparently there wasn't enough evidence to prove otherwise? Not that it matters, because people will believe what they want and either way the poor woman isn't going to be liked by very many people anytime soon...

[Life]

First off, this quote sums up my thoughts. Brought to you by Rambling Wreck on Smogon.

Okay, I have to say this, for everyone who is saying they know that Casey Anthony murdered her child. Why the hell didn't you call the investigators and give them your clearly damning evidence or testimony? Way to let a murderer go free, assholes.

For everyone who's a little less up in arms about something they're going to forget about in a few weeks, but still angry about it, were you really watching this trial hoping for justice for her child (when nothing is going to make that child alive again) or did you just want a different kind of reality TV to follow?

I am completely mystified by the whole country's fascination with this trial.

This is my current Facebook status:

Oh my god, Casey Anthony was found not guilty!

...

Who? And I care because...?

Seriously. What impact does this exact case have on everyone's lives? None. It's just a regular criminal case of which hundreds if not thousands exist every year that the media decided to make a killing on. So they did. And suddenly, people are up in arms about this one case.

Shut the fuck up about it. I can list you a more serious case in my country's recent history which is a lot worse and has less people going crazy about it. Go Google Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. They raped and murdered teenagers on camera and less shits were given about their trial than Casey Anthony.

[Haze]

Sigh, not this shit again.

The prosecution failed to prove their case for 1st degree murder, so she was found not guilty. End of story.

Hell, there was nowhere near enough evidence to prove murder at all. Perhaps they could have proved some form of manslaughter, but nowhere near murder, which requires the highest standard of proof in court. That's not even mentioning that if you want the death penalty, your case had better be goddamn bulletproof, and for good reason - once someone's dead, you can't just say "whoopsie, turns out they were not guilty after all" and release them.

Also just because the media says she did it doesn't mean she did, don't be sheep. You're innocent until proven guilty for a reason, and to everyone saying the courts/legal systems are stupid because of this case: You're all ignorant dumbasses.

[Life]

I'm with you on the manslaughter idea.

One more thing that bothers the fuck out of me about it is the fact that the prosecution claims that it was a near execution killing while the defense has a completely different cause of death, one that is not even mentioned as a possibility by the prosecution. That should tell you right there that someone made a mistake in the coroner's office.

I have so much respect for criminal defense lawyers.

[frat_tastic]

That's usually what "beyond a shadow of a doubt" means. No one cares about doubts that are unreasonable.

It's kind of pathetic, to me, that you think she got acquitted purely because she's attractive and white. That's bullshit.

The fact that she is a young white female probably wouldn't have been purely the reason why she was acquitted, but I wouldn't be surprised if it made some difference. White privilege and all that.

[The Thief's Assassin]

Also just because the media says she did it doesn't mean she did, don't be sheep. You're innocent until proven guilty for a reason, and to everyone saying the courts/legal systems are stupid because of this case: You're all ignorant dumbasses.

tried to tell this to my Facebook friends and they just thought i was stupid and they kept saying she was guilty

But hey I have some dumb friends sometimes.

Thats the reason most people even care, the media blew this case up because a young white girl died, they then jumped on the prime suspect and called her guilty before any evidence had been presented

[prompto]

haha wow, some of you guys.

I was kinda pissed off at first hearing the news, but on the flipside I wasn't exactly following the case real well, so now I'm not exactly sure how to feel.

I just know that Casey Anthony's pretty stupid with all the lies and contradictions everywhere.

[Life]

So she's not going to get mother of the year. That doesn't make her a murderer.

[Janissary]

The fact that she is a young white female probably wouldn't have been purely the reason why she was acquitted, but I wouldn't be surprised if it made some difference. White privilege and all that.

lol?

[frat_tastic]

lol?

Nor do I think the case would have received as much coverage if she hadn't been white...you don't honestly think white privilege doesn't exist, do you?

[Esau of Isaac]

Not that I'm trying to convince anyone that they're wrong or anything, but I'll at least try to make a little sense.

For now I think I'm going to stick with the explanation that maybe say prison and punishment like that isn't necessarily stupid(they just aren't a very good way to handle criminals, especially if you want them to stop committing crime), but I'll keep the idea of justice being stupid. Especially how people always want others to pay for their crimes, and call that justice. That isn't actually justice(which doesn't even exist really if you think about it), thats consequence/punishment/revenge.

Justice necessarily involves punishment when an individual breaches agreed-upon legal and particularly ethical boundaries.

Personally I think there are already enough words for when someone "gets what they deserve." Which that phrase in and of itself brings up certain questions about how to determine what someone deserves which brings up questions about who/what determines worth and how/why is it determined. Which is all ultimately unnecessary.

Why is it ultimately unnecessary to determine what someone deserves when they break a moral code everyone agrees to follow so society can actually function?

I wouldn't say that trying to get someone to not murder/steal/whatever is wrong really, but to punish them for what they do in such a self-serving manner as we do and then to call it justice is just kind of ridiculous. Especially when its so important in our society versus other things that really should be given more attention.

I don't understand how you can view the lax treatment of prisoners in today's society to possibly be a more light punishment, given the circumstances. It's true that we as a people need to concentrate more on rehabilitation of criminals, but I strongly agree with the notion that for those that cannot conceivably be persuaded or swayed, a big metal cage is a perfect place for them.

Now about the actual trial, while I don't know much about it I kind of really want to know why everyone thought she was actually guilty when apparently there wasn't enough evidence to prove otherwise? Not that it matters, because people will believe what they want and either way the poor woman isn't going to be liked by very many people anytime soon...

The reasons as I have gathered:

1.) The child was missing for a month without the mother reporting her missing. In the time up until she did, she apparently partied (can someone confirm this part?). In addition, she lied to her mother that she was too busy working when asked to see the child (she'd been canned earlier), and also that Caylee was being watched by a nanny that didn't exist.

2.) During interactions with the police she lies to them multiple times, including telling them that her child had been kidnapped by a woman she had never met in her life.

3.) Her car disappears around this time, but when recovered her mother states that it smells like something died in the back.

4.) It's determined that a body did decompose in the back, and that there were high levels of chloroform in the trunk.

5.) It is stated that it is impossible to determine whether the decomposition came from a human source, but hair DNA-matched to Caylee Anthony is found in the car that showed postmortem root branding, indicating the strand came from a dead body.

6.) Police find that among her computer searches on Google are such that include "how to make chloroform."

7.) The child is found with tape on her mouth, a rare brand that matched with tape found inside the Anthony home. This is also true of the bag the child was found in.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Esau of Isaac

[Rewjeo]

Justice is an invented thing. What each person thinks it is varies. This is part of the reason we have a legal system, not a justice system. As for the case, well, so what? It's not the first time (if she did it) and it isn't the last time. There are more important things. Besides, it's not like she'll have an easy life after this. Apparently she'd been living with her parents, but she accused her dad of sexual abuse, so good luck with that. Everyone knows her name and face, so good luck getting a job, especially in this economy, and have fun going out in public.

[Life]

The reasons as I have gathered:

1.) The child was missing for a month without the mother reporting her missing. In the time up until she did, she apparently partied (can someone confirm this part?). In addition, she lied to her mother that she was too busy working when asked to see the child (she'd been canned earlier), and also that Caylee was being watched by a nanny that didn't exist.

2.) During interactions with the police she lies to them multiple times, including telling them that her child had been kidnapped by a woman she had never met in her life.

3.) Her car disappears around this time, but when recovered her mother states that it smells like something died in the back.

4.) It's determined that a body did decompose in the back, and that there were high levels of chloroform in the trunk.

5.) It is stated that it is impossible to determine whether the decomposition came from a human source, but hair DNA-matched to Caylee Anthony is found in the car that showed postmortem root branding, indicating the strand came from a dead body.

6.) Police find that among her computer searches on Google are such that include "how to make chloroform."

7.) The child is found with tape on her mouth, a rare brand that matched with tape found inside the Anthony home. This is also true of the bag the child was found in.

I'm sorry, why didn't you show up at the trial and present the damning evidence? Good job on letting a possible murderer go free.

[Original Alear]

What ideal are you in love with?

This is going hugely off topic but...

The ideal that I have enough time in my day to use a balance of ideals and reality to make the world better. That this world is no longer just a simplistic reflection of my unconscious mind (or vice versa). True love. Maybe these are among the ideals I love. I really don't know. I don't write them down on a list. They are stuck somewhere in my head.

On topic,

maybe this could have gone differently. probably not because she was still an attractive white female, but we can hope.

I think this sober emo girl we once banned has made a very good point about the play of gender and attractiveness here. I know if I was a juror, attractiveness (not always whiteness, but sometimes that) would bias me in her favor.

[Esau of Isaac]

I'm sorry, why didn't you show up at the trial and present the damning evidence? Good job on letting a possible murderer go free.

I don't even know what you're trying to be flippant about.

Justice is an invented thing. What each person thinks it is varies. This is part of the reason we have a legal system, not a justice system.

America has a justice system...

This is going hugely off topic but...

The ideal that I have enough time in my day to use a balance of ideals and reality to make the world better. That this world is no longer just a simplistic reflection of my unconscious mind (or vice versa). True love. Maybe these are among the ideals I love. I really don't know. I don't write them down on a list. They are stuck somewhere in my head.

Alright, but how is this particularly relevant to the topic? What ideal that you love which presumably should exist cannot/does not?

Edited July 9, 2011 by Esau of Isaac

[Original Alear]

Alright, but how is this particularly relevant to the topic? What ideal that you love which presumably should exist cannot/does not?

I mean, I said it was going hugely irrelevant and then made a relevant point to a response I felt deserved praise for being, if a bit spiteful, also quite incisive from sober emo girl. Why do you feel the need to keep chasing the off topic question on serious discussion?

Ideals exist, and interract with reality, but not on a level that I believe I can actually fully, consciously grasp their manifestations all the time. (which is probably a good thing). Being highly paranoid, however, I believe I grasp them more often than most. A snippet of conversation here or there seems inevitably aimed towards "me and mine." Text messages and the death of small animals seem signs from something higher or lower for my mind alone to react to properly.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Loki Laufeyjarson

[Life]

I don't even know what you're trying to be flippant about.

I'm saying two things.

1) You act like you know enough that should be able to put this woman away for many years if not the death penalty and yet the defense was able to float (no pun intended) a completely different scenario. That doesn't happen unless the evidence from the prosecution's side has been misinterpreted badly. Half of those points are not admissible in a court of law and with regards to the other half, the defense won the case without even acknowledging them. So maybe, she didn't obviously kill her child like you seem to be sure of (unless you're just trying to list those points to look smart which with probably have me flaming you to Mars and back).

2. That you know so goddamn much about this one case when hundreds of similar ones exist in your country alone on a yearly basis. What, is every other case not important enough for you to recite those facts too? Just this one because it was on the news?

[Esau of Isaac]

I mean, I said it was going hugely irrelevant and then made a relevant point to a response I felt deserved praise for being, if a bit spiteful, also quite incisive from sober emo girl. Why do you feel the need to keep chasing the off topic question on serious discussion?

When did you say here that you were going off-topic?

1) You act like you know enough that should be able to put this woman away for many years if not the death penalty and yet the defense was able to float (no pun intended) a completely different scenario.

I act like I know why most people think she's guilty. Way to read into my reply.

That doesn't happen unless the evidence from the prosecution's side has been misinterpreted badly. Half of those points are not admissible in a court of law and with regards to the other half, the defense won the case without even acknowledging them. So maybe, she didn't obviously kill her child like you seem to be sure of (unless you're just trying to list those points to look smart which with probably have me flaming you to Mars and back).

When the hell did I say anything about anything being admissible anywhere? I listed relevant points which lead many to come to the conclusion that she was involved in the death of her child. Go piss in someone else's cereal kid.

2. That you know so goddamn much about this one case when hundreds of similar ones exist in your country alone on a yearly basis. What, is every other case not important enough for you to recite those facts too? Just this one because it was on the news?

Yeah, let me list all of the primary points of the public's reaction about all the other Not Guilty cases across America in this topic about Casey Anthony, which you seem to be so well aware of yourself. What, are you aware of the spot-on defensive tactics used in all other cases, or just this one because it was on the news?

Even if I did find this particular case innately more worth my time, your point would still be moronic. Example: Why are you complaining about me when there are so many other important things to complain about with your time? Don't you care about starving children in Africa or some shit?

Edited July 9, 2011 by Esau of Isaac

[Original Alear]

When did you say here that you were going off-topic?

I didn't see my original post as particularly off-topic. The topic was welcome to the country where you get away with murder, and my response is that I love america but that I don't expect it to live up to my ideals consistently. Maybe the headline should be chosen with more care next time?

I went hugely off topic when I began listing ideals that had little/nothing to do with America VS existence in general. I explicitly stated I felt I was going off topic at that point.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Loki Laufeyjarson