Tryhard Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Did you change Samto/Samuto/Samut's name into a concrete choice of 1 of the three? From the current patch, it's Samto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) We haven't gotten around to Samto yet, hahah. But I guess the team should start bracing for another firestorm after this Sheema/Seema/Sima thing is settled. As a point of interest, two of the names are variations of each other and are both Hindi names (Seema and Sima). Personally though, I think all three of those options look terrible. My gut instinct is to say "Romanize the freakin' name," but I'm sure that would cause some people's buttocks to hurt. Aching buttocks turns into another firestorm where we have to mount a defense for our changes against a constant barrage of whiners, and that is no fun for anyone involved. This makes actually doing our job (translating and localizing) 10 times harder than it already is, and it isn't exactly a walk through the park as-is. Seriously guys, if we change a character's name here's what I suggest: go eat a sandwich and adjust to change. Unless we're coming up with completely absurd (Samto -> Monkey) and utterly weird/unjustifiable names (Sheema -> Ashley), just live with it. Clinging to the English spellings of Japanese names is ridiculous anyways. Edited August 15, 2011 by Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Most FE names are not meant to be Japanese. The community is already familiar with the commonly accepted translations, so I ask again, why the need to go with something different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 I'm not speaking for the team, but I think the reason is "because we can" and we don't feel like we should be restrained by the FE3 fan translation. "Commonly accepted" doesn't really mean much when so few people have played FE3 and IMO the FE3 names weren't really that good to begin with (seriously, I didn't put much thought into them). If people can get used to changes like Soanevalcke to Stefan, then I don't see how much worse name changes like Sheema to Sima are, especially when the new names sounds almost identical and are still faithful translations of the Japanese name. This is almost like in FE8 (the difference is that FE3 got a patch), where people complained about Noel's name being changed to Knoll, even though it's pronounced the same and, ironically, Knoll was the official Japanese name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 "Naga Icon" seems a bit weird. Naga is, as far as I know, not a Goddess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) "Naga Icon" seems a bit weird. Naga is, as far as I know, not a Goddess. I think they said that they were using Naga Icon because they couldn't squish the text at that point. But now they apparently can, so they are going with the full Goddess Icon AFAIK. :3 EDIT: Yeah: In case anybody noticed, "Naga Icon" is the temporary name for the Goddess Icon. In the final version, we'll be able to use FE11's squished "Goddess Icon" text for its name. Edited August 15, 2011 by Kelsper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Most FE names are not meant to be Japanese. Names of characters in a series where half the entries are Japanese-only are clearly not meant to be Japanese. That's totally logical, right? Edited August 15, 2011 by Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Actually, it makes sense if you consider it as IS trying to emulate English names. I believe that's the main reason why katakana is used for names, to mimic foreign names. Yeah, Naga Icon was temporary, but I don't think it's a huge deal since Naga is a deity and is worshipped as the guardian god. That and... Naga is implied to be female, see FE4 or Nagi in FE11/12. But of course, humans thought Naga was a guy. Edited August 15, 2011 by VincentASM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) I definitely jumped the shark there, hahah. Some names, yeah. Alec in FE4? That's totally not meant to be Japanese. Things like Noishe, Kashim, Biraku and Ogier (the "official" translation for Oujay), names like those are just weird and have no real basis with names originating from latin-root languages (that I could find, anyways). They definitely aren't all based on non-Japanese languages (and sometimes they're just making stuff up, it seems). Clinging to these old fan translations is pointless beyond all words. I'd personally like to play a game with names that sound like, ya know, actual names we would give to people. I don't think you'll ever meet a 'Malliessia' or a 'Samto.' You'd also have to try pretty hard to find a 'Sheema' in western culture (it's a Hindi name), and part of the translation process is adapting the terminology to suit the new language/audience. Edited August 15, 2011 by Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I don't know how much IS works with the translation teams when they translate FE in english, but I don't believe they care that much if their characters keep their original japanese names or not. I think the translation teams cared more to make names sound well to the western ears. We saw it clearly in FE11, where Saji and Maji became Bord and Cord... And I know you guys love the name Soanevalcke, but I believe that for most american players, this name fits in the "weird" category... But I agree it's sad they cut the link with Soan... Personaly, I prefer romanized name... Perhaps it's because I'm not an anime fan... But really, I don't mind much. I'll take whatever. But I kinda suggest that you guys do you own choices, or else there's gonna be blood spilling in the forums lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Clinging to these old fan translations is pointless beyond all words. I'd personally like to play a game with names that sound like, ya know, actual names we would give to people. I don't think you'll ever meet a 'Malliessia' or a 'Samto.' You'd also have to try pretty hard to find a 'Sheema' in western culture (it's a Hindi name), and part of the translation process is adapting the terminology to suit the new language/audience. I wouldn't. Part and parcel of playing a game that's supposed to be set in a fantasy world is fantasy names. It would be weird if you had Daves and Bobs and whatevers running around, just as it would be weird for them to have access to guns, or use modern slang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 RAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Luffy has spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 ITT: People misusing "romanized" to mean "localized". Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but that really bothers me. Romanized->transliteration of kana. Localized->Made up whatever shit they wanted (usually faithful to original intent but not always). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) While you haven't given any specific examples of the misuse, I have to admit I have misused the word 'localized'... The way I view names is that they should be romanized (written in Romaji) and then translated to English as best as possible, given that some vowels are often taken out, Rs become Ls in some cases, and that English has many different ways of spelling things with the same pronounciation, as well as anything else. I don't want to do very much localization outside of what's absolutely necessary (for hacking purposes, like character limits, or things that aren't names) and basic dialog, i.e. altering dialog to make it seem more like well-written English as opposed to a direct translation from Japanese to English which doesn't sound as nice as it could be with some small edits. With that in mind I'm taking a more conservative approach... just throwing this stuff out there EDIT: http://fe12ds.blogspot.com I'm through, I've been too nice to everyone, I'd rather be an asshole and get a good translation done than keep dealing with this. Edited August 16, 2011 by Luffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Archer Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't. Part and parcel of playing a game that's supposed to be set in a fantasy world is fantasy names. It would be weird if you had Daves and Bobs and whatevers running around, just as it would be weird for them to have access to guns, or use modern slang. Well, original names do have their limitations as to what does or doesn't sound like a name. There are names that have that fantasy air to them, such as Camus or Medeus. On the other side of the spectrum, there's "names" that look like comic book sound effects. *hit guy in the stomach* BELF! *hit him in the face* TOMTH! Instances like those are where I believe a little creativity can help, yes? Edited August 16, 2011 by The Blind Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I lol'd I must be in a good mood, been laughing so much barring that one blog post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 That "You Lose" post is one epic post lol! I'm all for name improvements. It's more fun playing with a character when you're actually able to pronouce its name without having to wonder how to... (or without having to start a thread to ask everyone how they pronouce that weird name...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Huh, I'm rather sad about this whole turn of events. Rather than discussing things with you reasonably, a bunch of people were overly nitpicky and made things much harder on you than they needed to be. And I thought you were pretty patient so far, so no harm, no foul to you. Honestly, what I don't get is, if they want their own way so badly, why don't they just wait until you release your patch, then hack into the rom to rename everything they didn't like? I mean, surely there's SOMEONE with the knowledge and know how to do it? Edited August 16, 2011 by FionordeQuester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) We said a ton of times we had planned on letting people easily edit text granted maybe it's not as easy as I think but considering there's going to be a text editor to help, it can't be as hard as hacking it in a hex editor like I originally did, and hacking text in a hex editor was about as hard as editing palettes... so yeah, it really can't be that hard when we plan on giving the knowledge out -_- I think people are more or less worried because people might end up using these names all over the internet, AKA they'll become the standards, and they don't want them to bleh I said enough on the matter, I need to learn to shut up. Edited August 16, 2011 by Luffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Deadly Sins Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 The thing that bugs me is that you go to the trouble to make a poll after a number of people addressed concerns, and then had that poll overwhelmingly oppose your decision, and then decide "fuck you anyway, it's not my fault you didn't perform hours of excruciating and previously thought impossible work without any tools first" after the smoke has finally cleared. And as a side note, the last paragraph really doesn't sit well with me. Other people pushing for a name (the majority of which disagree with you and your translation) doesn't actually slow anything you do down. If it's as simple as you say to change a name, then there's no reason to just be a stubborn asshole about it. If you're doing something for the community, I can't imagine why you would then turn around and hand us a hot steaming pile of fuck you when we disagree with what ends up being a minor change. I get that "the customer is always right" isn't exactly an adage when you're doing something for free, but "the customer is always wrong" sucks ass. Bottom line is, there's a perfectly acceptable set of translations that apparently everyone but you agrees with, and when you're trying to do something to serve the community, telling them off in such a harsh manner is just in poor taste. No matter what you come out with, people are going to use it, simply because it's always preferable to see English than Japanese unless you're one of the blessed few that actually reads it. That doesn't mean you should piss on what other people want just because you feel like it. P.S.: I definitely appreciate what you do, and having worked on translation projects before (albeit briefly) I know what a pain in the ass they are. I just would hope that you would put the wishes of the community in a little higher esteem for what is, in the end, a project designed to serve that same community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Bla bla bla TIDAL WAVE! No offense, I can't take your post seriously with all the swear words and exaggeration in it, maybe someone else can. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerachi Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 The thing that bugs me is that you go to the trouble to make a poll after a number of people addressed concerns, and then had that poll overwhelmingly oppose your decision, and then decide "coition you anyway, it's not my fault you didn't perform hours of excruciating and previously thought impossible work without any tools first" after the smoke has finally cleared.And as a side note, the last paragraph really doesn't sit well with me. Other people pushing for a name (the majority of which disagree with you and your translation) doesn't actually slow anything you do down. If it's as simple as you say to change a name, then there's no reason to just be a stubborn mule about it. If you're doing something for the community, I can't imagine why you would then turn around and hand us a hot steaming pile of excrement when we disagree with what ends up being a minor change. I get that "the customer is always right" isn't exactly an adage when you're doing something for free, but "the customer is always wrong" sucks backside. Bottom line is, there's a perfectly acceptable set of translations that apparently everyone but you agrees with, and when you're trying to do something to serve the community, telling them off in such a harsh manner is just in poor taste. No matter what you come out with, people are going to use it, simply because it's always preferable to see English than Japanese unless you're one of the blessed few that actually reads it. That doesn't mean you should urinate on what other people want just because you feel like it. You get half of your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's hard to call it a name improvement if the vast majority of people disagree with it. Malicia (the only one I disagree with so far) being used obviously has nothing to do with making this patch as good as it can be, given that it is being used for entertainment purposes and people would be more entertained with Malliesia (or whatever it's spelling is, I think something like Malesia is better). I'm planning on importing this, anyways, so I haven't been whining before (at least not that I remember) but this "BLARG NO WHINING SCREW YOU WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS CHANGE JUST TO SPITE OUR CUSTOMERS" thing is making me. Sorta reminds me of what Nintendo did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Why do people have an issue with Malicia? I like it more than Malliesia. They're, pronounced pretty much the same, too. That blog post is pretty lulzy, tho. Edited August 16, 2011 by L95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) I know right? I'm in a pretty lulzy mood. For the record, Arch made me do it. Btw It's hard to call it a name improvement if the vast majority of people disagree with it. what vast majority of people, if you're referring to the poll on SF that's not even close to an acceptable (not good, acceptable) polling sample Edited August 16, 2011 by Luffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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