Mechanics that you want

[arvilino]

It sort of sounds like a system similar to the Ogre Battle games, where specific classes have certain growths and class changes are unlocked when certain statistical requirements (strength, wisdom, vitality, etc.) are met. It was only really worthwhile when there's focus on training units outside of the storyline which most Fire Emblem games don't have.

[CrashGordon94]

What's wrong with having more options when you start a new game?

Nothing, I just think they should be there from the first playthrough.

[Dark Sage]

Nothing, I just think they should be there from the first playthrough.

I can understand that, but I think it's a great way to encourage replay value. Plus some stuff really is a good reward for beating the game. Like Male Reclassing Limits being unlocked in FE12. It's a good reward because it makes your characters more powerful and it's a powerful enough feature that having it to begin with might not be the best idea. So yeah.

[Celice]

The after-unlocking also gives some players a sense of accomplishment. They "earned" the treat.

Personally I'm way more interested in replaying the game in different ways rather than being rewarded for repetitious play. Alternative routes, cast-choice, and small changes based on what you did (pretty much FE6 right there) make for replaying less of a bore and more of an interest.

[Mister Cold]

The after-unlocking also gives some players a sense of accomplishment. They "earned" the treat.

Personally I'm way more interested in replaying the game in different ways rather than being rewarded for repetitious play. Alternative routes, cast-choice, and small changes based on what you did (pretty much FE6 right there) make for replaying less of a bore and more of an interest.

branched promotion also works into that (as the same char can be 2 different classes, while similair, still different)

and no I don't want reclassing ... worst (FE) addition EVER!

[arvilino]

I always thought branched promotion(FE 8) wasn't all that great in comparison to reclass since you have no choice once you made the decision so there's always a superior choice to pick. For example Great Knight Gilliam over General Gilliam since Great Knight's bonuses(Higher Move, Re-move) are more useful for more chapters than he is as a General.

Reclass allowed for more adaptability so for example if it was in FE8, Gilliam could be an Armoured Knight/General during chapters that it would give him an advantage in and something else in other ones. It also would aid characters that are very underlevelled such as Nino, Wendy or Sophia. They could have all been reclassed to Clerics and levelled up without being in combat. Ardan could have been reclassed a Social Knight or something, which makes it more feasible to use characters you like.

Just aslong as the reclass limit is there to prevent you from having many more of a unit than the game normally allows at that point.

Edited October 11, 2011 by arvilino

[CrashGordon94]

I can understand that, but I think it's a great way to encourage replay value. Plus some stuff really is a good reward for beating the game. Like Male Reclassing Limits being unlocked in FE12. It's a good reward because it makes your characters more powerful and it's a powerful enough feature that having it to begin with might not be the best idea. So yeah.

Actually, that's one specific example that I hate, it should've been off to begin with.

I agree with the stuff about multiple routes and things, that's an infinitely better way to do it.

[paladin21]

I always thought branched promotion(FE 8) wasn't all that great in comparison to reclass since you have no choice once you made the decision so there's always a superior choice to pick. For example Great Knight Gilliam over General Gilliam since Great Knight's bonuses(Higher Move, Re-move) are more useful for more chapters than he is as a General.

[spoiler=Off-topic]Re-move is not that big of a deal in FE8 since you can't activate it after attacking (unless you've hacked the game of course). Re-moving after using an object, trading or visiting a house/village/shop is useful, but not so much if you lack movement (the GK has as much movement as any promoted infantry but the general) and you'd be using falcos, wyverns or paladins for that stuff since their mobility is way higher.

Another problem they face is that they have issues rescuing people, since they have reverse aid (higher con, lower aid) because they're mounted, and they usually have great con, thus being able to rescue only low con characters.

And finally, the GK lacks the general's signature skill, the Big Shield, being able to negate enemy hits (including the WK's Pierce), and actually one point of movement doesn't really pay for lower caps, bonuses, the rescue problem and the lack of the skill.

But having options is always a good thing to have. The first two times I played SS, I took different routes and promoted into different classes each character (it was my first FE ever, so I played for pure fun). Reclassing would be nice if it had limits to keep characters with personality. Maybe after having played quite a few times or having met certain requirements, those limitations could be lifted, like having unlocked all of that character support convs, or reached certain gaiden chapters (once you know a character's background you can use it as a generic character, more or less, by changing its class).

Edited October 11, 2011 by paladin21

[Anouleth]

And finally, the GK lacks the general's signature skill, the Big Shield, being able to negate enemy hits (including the WK's Pierce), and actually one point of movement doesn't really pay for lower caps, bonuses, the rescue problem and the lack of the skill.

Big Shield is practically useless as a skill. The chance of it activating rarely exceeds 5% and Gilliam is durable enough not to need it. Gilliam will never hit his caps either in the majority of playthroughs, and his Great Knight caps are high enough that a capped Gilliam will have no trouble ORKOing and never dying. The only significant advantage of General is the +1speed is gets, but overall, it's not as valuable as +1 move.

In addition, even as a GK Gilliam has enough movement to rescue some important utility characters such as staff users and Dancers. His Canto also lets him pick up and move in the same turn, which is crucial to Rescue chains.

[paladin21]

And don't forget he has two weaknesses instead of one.

[Mikethfc]

Plus the sword animation looks cooler for generals then it does for Great Knights

I wouldn't mind reclassing returning even though I rarely used it in FE11

[Thor Odinson]

And don't forget he has two weaknesses instead of one.

Enemies in FE8 with effective weaponry, beyond bows against fliers, are too few and far in between. It's not like horseslayer paladins suddenly pop out every turn like some of those FEDS reinforcements. And he should have enough defense to survive a hit from them anyway, FE8 enemies are pathetic even with x3mt.

[dondon151]

Horseslayer sages, on the other hand...

[Aethereal]

Reclassing, if implemented, should definitely be a second playthrough+ kinda thing. I liked the idea that some one (Furet, I think?) had about keeping reclassing options within what is reasonable for that unit/class.

As far as branched promotions, I'm not against it, as long as some choices are a little more balanced. The choice between Paladin/GK, or GK/General wasn't much of a choice.

Really, I just hope the dual-battle, or whatever it's being called, is balanced and well implemented.

[CrashGordon94]

Horseslayer sages, on the other hand...

What?

[Thor Odinson]

Horseslayer sages, on the other hand...

.... Ahahahahahaha yes.

[Othin]

Speaking of second playthrough bonuses... Reclassing could be more reasonable if it was done permanently before the game started. Say, after you complete the game, you can permanently swap classes for characters when starting future playthroughs, as long as that character was recruited and alive at the end of a previous playthrough. Lena as, say, a Pegasus Knight would make sense if she had been a Pegasus Knight since the start of the game, rather than becoming a competent knight out out of nowhere mid-story.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Othin

[dondon151]

I love reclassing as a mechanic to more deeply explore strategic possibilities - let's face it, a lot of FE3 DS chapters, especially on H3, begged for a certain reclassing configuration. I think Furet's idea to limit reclass options (essentially to create more reclass sets) still works perfectly well because many characters only reclass within a narrow group of potential classes, anyway.

Edited October 11, 2011 by dondon151

[BwdYeti]

Maybe if when you reclassed a unit they had a temporary stat penalty, as they got used to the new fighting style? Like Pow through Res reduced to 90% for one chapter

And for branched promotions, the choices just need to actually be balanced. ie mounted units not overpowered so it's always better to take the mounted class; actually useful mastery Skills (Sure Strike, u kidn me IS) but without being the near instant-one-shot activation skills of 10, and they could be used as part of the balance (better skills for classes that are worse without them); etc. It wouldn't be possible to perfectly balance it but each choice should at least have some merit

[Anouleth]

The thing is that there's already a really strong reason to stick with just a certain set of classes through weapon rank.

And in FE12, the caps of mounted classes often make them unviable. The 23AS of Dracoknight, for example, is simply unusable later on in Lunatic. I think that dondon is right; characters should have the opportunity to reclass, but many reclassing options are just completely unusable for certain characters and just aren't needed. Who is going to reclass say, Etzel to a Berserker?

[dondon151]

I don't necessarily agree with the dracoknight argument. You'd use dracoknights as far as chapter 21 just for the flying; chapter 22 and onwards have only indoor maps where dracoknight is outclassed by paladin and horsemen.

[Anouleth]

I don't necessarily agree with the dracoknight argument. You'd use dracoknights as far as chapter 21 just for the flying; chapter 22 and onwards have only indoor maps where dracoknight is outclassed by paladin and horsemen.

Really? I was under the impression that 23AS was just insufficient... but you probably know better. At least Dracoknight has some disadvantage in comparison to foot classes.

[Momo]

And in FE12, the caps of mounted classes often make them unviable. The 23AS of Dracoknight, for example, is simply unusable later on in Lunatic. I think that dondon is right; characters should have the opportunity to reclass, but many reclassing options are just completely unusable for certain characters and just aren't needed. Who is going to reclass say, Etzel to a Berserker?

A cool dude. Why deny this cool dude the pleasure of Etzel kicking ass?

[eclipse]

Who is going to reclass say, Etzel to a Berserker?

Me. Because Etzel without a shirt excites me.

I try to do amusing things with reclassing. Every now and then, I find a reclass I like. I'm thankful for that flexibility, and I'm also thankful that I can turn Staffbot!Lena into Arrowbait!Lena (for gaiden purposes in SD).

[arvilino]

Really? I was under the impression that 23AS was just insufficient... but you probably know better. At least Dracoknight has some disadvantage in comparison to foot classes.

23AS isn't the best(obviously) but the way the Lunatic Chapters work with enemy stats. It's not until Chapter 21 until regular enemy(Hardin and the Chpt.20 Earth Dragon and Theif) excluded speed goes above 26. And then it's only Chapter 21 Flying Dragons(who can only do 2x10 damage to Draco's at capped defense) and Swordmaster who double, then the vast majority of the chapters become filled with Fire Dragons(26AS) Dark Dragons (23AS) and Sorcerors(25 AS) with about 2 Swordmasters and 2 Beserkers who you have to kill (3 are near the start of Chapter 22 so you don't need a Dracoknight to kill them).

Paladins are a bit better to use(Beserkers can't double them and they can Double Generals and Bishops while you still fight them), but Dracoknights can do well in the those chapters. Only Horsemen and Swordmasters (and maybe Snipers but I didn't use any) have significant advantages over them with capped speed.

Edited October 12, 2011 by arvilino